We’re planning to plant them this summer. Will they take over? Is there any way to keep them under control?It's a perennial bush. Or shrub. Pretty big at maturity...10' tall and maybe 8-10 feet wide. So somewhere where they won't block other things. Need/love 'wet feet.' Stream banks are good. Wet spots in the lower lawn are ideal. No, they don't spread much. I'd be thrilled if they did. I've propagated all mine from cuttings. I plan to be "Johnny Elderberry" at my new home planting them up and down the stream nearby. Birds love the berries. Also a native species, so not invasive in the technical sense.
I teach many teenage students who are from China (our school’s largest international population, in fact), and one of them has parents and extended family in Wuhan as we speak, while most of the others are glued to their phones and communicating with their families back in China constantly. They say they are “fine,” but after years of reading my Chinese students I can tell you they are unsettled. Not panicked, but unsettled. I expect that will change as things worsen, and I’ve notified my otherwise clueless administration to keep an eye on them.
As an aside, I’ve been reading some borderline racist and culturally-biased stuff out on the Twittersphere about China and the Chinese, so I just want to put it out there that they are people who love their kids, are trying their best to get by day-to-day, and pretty much want to sail through life fairly happy without getting killed in any kind of horrible way. Watching the children worry deeply about their loved ones back home, during the holiday that means so much for them, snaps one back into the reality that these are real people, just like us. I wish the Chinese well in this, and hope the loss of life is minimal.
I can only imagine how bad things are getting in Wuhan already, though, and it is a stark reminder that we should brush up on what materials and preps we have in place, so as to jump on it now. If I’m guesstimating correctly, and if this thing blows open, we have at most a few weeks before the shit hits the fan here. Get ahead of the herd!
So, PPers…what medicines would you recommend we have on hand in quantity? I’m not a medical guy.
A coworker’s grandmother drives around the area near her rural Pennsylvania home on an ATV in early summer scouting for blooming elderberries with binoculars. She returns later in summer and harvests enough berries to allow her great-grandchildren to eat peanut butter and elderberry jam sandwiches almost every day of the year. It’s their favorite.
“Chinese lab poised to study world’s most dangerous pathogens.” The location of this BSL-4 rated lab? Why, Wuhan.
https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/real-umbrella-corp-wuhan-ultra-biohazard-lab-was-studying-worlds-most-dangerous-pathogens
There is a Facebook post by Stephen Harrod Buhner today regarding specific herbal antivirals for the coronavirus. Elderberry leaves and bark are actually more specific than the berries. He has written a book entitled Herbal Antivirals: Natural Remedies for Emerging & Resistant Viral Infections. Also wrote Herbal Antibiotics: Natural Alternatives for Treating Drug-Resistant Bacteria along with 20+ other books. I love his work. He is a researcher and independent thinker. Check out his website www.StephenHarrodBuhner.com and sign up for his FB posts.
That said, we make and take elderberry syrup in the winter when exposed to others with respiratory illnesses or when we feel that run-down feeling before something hits you. We don’t take it all the time, just when we feel we need it for a boost.
First! 
Good on Tyler Durden if he’s a member of the PP tribe and helping to keep others informed.
Only 1 lab in China, located in Wuhan, can safely handle new coronavirus
https://peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/coronavirus-wuhan-forum/page/2/#post-435200
Possible concerns that new Coronavirus escaped from Wuhan BSL-4 facility?
https://peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/coronavirus-wuhan-forum/page/2/#post-435210
It’s easy to wander over to Twitter and find example after example of people collapsing in the streets of Wuhan.
The toll is grim:
(Source)
(Source)
++++++++++++++++++++++
Also, despite the WHO furiously denying there’s anything here to be concerned about, China is furiously building massive new hospital tent structures:
I stopped by an auto parts store today to get some masks. I asked the clerk where they were and he took me right to them. There were plenty available. He asked me what I was doing and I said, “blowing insulation in the attic.” He recommended the N95 masks. I bought a box of 20. They were a buck a piece in bulk. Individually, they were priced at $1.59. I’ll be outfitting close friends if and when it becomes necessary.
It’s best to panic before the herd becomes aware.
Grover
Its been a while but as soon as this story broke I knew where to go.
I’m going to start phase 1 of my prep JUST IN CASE. I have a 2 year old son and a 5 month pregnant wife. Phase 1 includes the following:
- LOADS OF WATER
- I ordered 2 months of formula for my son. He drinks HIPP Combiatik from Germany. Good stuff
- LOADS OF DIAPERS AND TOILET PAPER
- PROPANE TANKS (ABOUT 2 OF THEM)
- LOADS OF CEREAL AND ALMOND MILK
- MASKS AND GLOVES
- ELDERBERRY SYRUP (THANKS CM)
Any other recommendations?
It’s very early in this crisis, but I saw one source that said the mortality rate was only 2%. I do know however that even in the most recent Ebola crisis supposedly reputable sources were dividing the number of current deaths by the number of current known cases and mistakenly coming up with a much-lower-than-reality number. They failed to factor in that many who have Ebola today won’t die for 7-14 days. So does anybody have a source even vaguely attempting to come up with a corona virus mortality RATE?
Chris, I’ve seen many people “collapsed” in the street looking just like the people in those pictures you posted. How do we know they’re not just drunk or high (the usual explanation in my Philly PD experience)? Just because medics respond in Tyvek and masks doesn’t mean anything necessarily. In the affected areas, that has probably become the new universal precautions until they can definitely prove the patient has something other than corona. And God help the poor drunk who diverts badly needed medical resources once they find out he’s just drunk or high! At the very least he’ll find himself unceremoniously dumped on the hospital’s sidewalk or locked up in a cold, concrete police cell, perhaps with an instructive slap upside of the head.
In my part of the world elderberries (Sambucus nigra) are “relatively easy” to grow in cooler parts of the country. There’s at least 7 varieties, all requiring moist, humus-rich soil. They come into full production about 3 years after planting. They’re not common here, though. I shall see what indigenous plants may be available, although they’re not common either.
The Vitamin C alternative works for my wife and me. We haven’t had colds or sniffles for many years. However, it’s not the perfect prophylactic. We picked up a nasty virus on a visit to Sydney 6 months ago, which did not respond to any amount of garlic and Vit C, and only time got rid of it.
Here’s how hard-hit an otherwise healthy 23 year old got by the virus…sounds miserable!
This was translated by a Reddit user from a Chinese newspaper:
Source - Reddit Thread Feeling better, but digestive functions are still terrible Shenyidu: How are you physically? Wang Kang: This is the sixth day since my release. I can’t do anything labor heavy. I can’t exercise much. But I’m getting better by the day. Sometimes I run out of breath when talking, and I have trouble breathing deeply. Normal breathing is fine for me. I live in Wuhan. I can actually take care of myself now. My parents are taking care of me, too. But I rarely leave the house. S: Did the doctors prescribe you with any medications? WK: The hospital gave me two kinds. One for chest activation, one for anti-flu. They prescribed me 4 months for the chest activation, only 5 days for the anti-flu drug. Just need to finish this box. That’s also the one I’ve been having in hospital. I had some digestive pills this morning. S: Still feeling upset in your stomach? WK: My digestive functions are still poor. Had some Jiaozi yesterday. Caused acid reflux and bloating. Still feeling it now. S: What subsequent treatment and examination are planned? WK: I need to go back for examination in a month. The doctors at Jinyintan told me to go back as soon as possible if something’s wrong. They are very responsible, nice people. I’d like to thank them. They are relocated from other hospitals in Wuhan, and some are experts in Beijing. They’re short-staffed and working around the clock. 16 hours a day. From dawn til dusk. Thought it was common cold, diagnosed after two transfers. S: When did you start to feel that something’s wrong with you? WK: I started to feel sick on Dec 24. The symptoms were dizziness, headaches, weak and sore limbs. I thought it was just common cold at the time, because it felt like one. When I went to work the next day I was limp and powerless. I took sick leave and got a cab home. Went to a hospital nearby for treatment. I was in hospital on 25th. Got IV without delay. IV right after I got admitted. I didn’t have a fever at first. After 3 days, something like on the 27th, I started to have a fever. S: Did you stay at the hospital? WK: No. I would get IV at the hospital every day and then go home, just like you would for a common cold. On 27th I started to have a fever that won’t go away. IV did not help and it got worse. I could hardly move. Terribly fatigued. I walked around a bit and my blood oxygen level dropped really low. I had trouble breathing, so I could do nothing but lying in bed. Got my blood checked, did the routine blood test and it came back normal. Got my blood and liver functions checked the next day. My deaminase level has been high since college. I told the doctors that, because I didn’t know about the pneumonia. Didn’t pay attention to those things. I was worried about other diseases. It takes a day before the results get back and it was the weekends, so I came home. The IV didn’t work so I stopped taking it. Laid in bed for two days. S: How did you feel over these two days? WK: I had no appetite. Couldn't eat anything. If I ate I threw up anyways. I had some congee. And some water. S: How was the result that came back on Monday? WK: The report said there was some problem with my liver function. So I thought it was my liver. Thought to check again at Xiehe Hospital. I took a couple of days off at home, and then went to Xiehe in the morning of the 1st. I still had a fever at hospital so I got some medicine. I started sweating after taking the medicine, but the fever was still there. Usually it was 39 Celsius, but got to 40, 41 Celsius at times. Drugs helped, but the fever came right back each time. S: What tests did they give you at Xiehe? WK: After being admitted at Xiehe, I got a full body examination at endocrinology. On Jan 2, my blood oxygen level dropped to 60% which was life-threatening. I got a chest X-ray. The X-ray room was a couple of buildings from my ward, so the doctor had to push my bed all the way there. The doctor told my mom to keep talking to me along the way so that I don’t fall asleep. You get drowsy when the blood oxygen level is low. The oxygen generator couldn’t be used on the way, so they had to use an oxygen tank. After taking the X-ray, someone asked me where I worked, what route I took to work, where I lived, things like that. S: How did you respond? WK: I told him I work in sales near Hankou railway station. It was not far from my home and only a few hundred meters away from Huanan Seafood Market. I rode my bike home every day. I never went in the seafood market, but I was at a grocery nearby on 22nd. It was raining that day. I didn’t bring a rain jacket or an umbrella. I thought I caught a cold from that. The early symptoms of pneumonia and common cold are identical. S: What are the test results from Xiehe? WK: 11am on Jan 2, they told my mom I might have to be transferred to Jinyintan, so she started to gather my stuff. At noon they told us it might not be necessary. They had a video conference about my case for about 2 hours. My mom was worried they won’t keep me. She didn’t know about the new pneumonia; she thought it was something serious. The doctor told her not to let me sleep, to keep talking to me. She was worried and scared. Neither of us knew anything about Jinyintan Hospital. S: How did you end up at Jinyintan Hospital? WK: They officially transferred me in the afternoon that day, with a note about suspicions of pneumonia. At around 7pm, Jinyintan Hospital picked me up in an ambulance. They hooked me up with oxygen, blood oxygen monitor, EKG and stuff immediately when I got admitted. I was sent to ICU at around 8:40pm and got my blood tested. My sister wanted to get in but was stopped by two doctors and two security guards. ICU is completely quarantined. I was and then sent to severe case ward where my sister could get in. I owe my life to my sister’s care. S: What did she do? WK: There were a lot of patients in quarantine and the nurses were overworked. Patients like us had high fevers, no appetite, low blood oxygen level, so my sister had to feed me with food and water, and took care of my wastes. The hospital gave her a mask. She stayed with me for more than 10 days. Slept on a makeshift bed of seven chairs and a blanket. Just slept like that. The fever was gone the second day I got to Jinyintan Hospital. From 1st to 3rd my sister fed me with water and medications. I got fever and sweat and the fever dropped fast. I couldn’t life a cup to my mouth then so I laid in med and my sister fed me with a straw. She had to prop up my dead. Around the 10th I was taken to another ward. I had enough strength to move and take care of myself, so I asked my sister to leave. My nephew was sick. She didn’t get a change of clothes over the 10 days because she couldn’t leave after she got in. When she left, they disinfected her and ran some tests before releasing her. My dad and mom was with me. But they didn’t let them to get in at Jinyintan because they were old. My sister wouldn’t allow them to go in either. We listened to the doctors the whole time. S: What did the doctors ask you to do? WK: The doctor told my dad to get some human albumin, because I couldn’t eat for a few days and needed nutrition. We lived in Hankou. My dad went to Wuchang and bought 5 bottles. But they didn’t have refrigerators for patients under quarantine and human albumin must be kept refrigerated. He brought 5 and the hospital only took one. They said to bring the other 4 home and keep refrigerated. We live very far from the hospital, so my mom got a hotel room nearby, just to keep those albumin. She delivered one bottle to me every day. Each bottle was about 500 CNY, 50 mL or 75 mL, a tiny bottle, yellow. 5 days later I could eat, so they were no longer needed. From tens of IVs per day to getting out of sick bed S: How did the doctors treat this? What’s the treatment plan? WK: There’s no specific treatment for this, no fast solutions. They must activate you own immune functions to combat the virus and it will damage other organs. The doctors and nurses were nice. They’ll tell you what each drug was for. IV and anti-inflammatory drugs were to activate pulmonary functions. They also gave me injections to protect my stomach and my liver, and other organs, but especially intestines and stomach. There were other drugs for pneumonia but I don’t understand much. S: So most of the drugs were delivered via IV? WK: Yes, a lot of them. Tens of bottles per day for the first few days. On 8th and 9th it was around 8 bottles a day. Sometimes they gave me some oral drugs, but the doctors tells you when to take them and when to stop. They require full cooperation. Sometimes they switched the drugs. I don’t know what exactly. But they said it’s to activate pulmonary functions. S: What did they reduce the amount of drugs? WK: Because gradually my blood oxygen level got back to 90. They began to decrease the oxygen concentration and flow. They took me off oxygen and EKG after my heart rate and blood pressure got back to normal. I think it was because I was young. I’m only 23. All my organs work for me. S: Did you receive serious intestinal and gastric damage? WK: How do I describe this. When I first got to Xiehe, on the first day, my dad got me Shaomai for breakfast. There was some black pepper in it. I could handle spices. I had no trouble with hot pots, things like that. But on that day I took one bite into the Shaomai, there was some black pepper in it. My whole esophagus and stomach were in discomfort the whole morning. And I had to relieve myself in bed. Peeing is fine, I could hold it in. But it was humiliating to poop in my bed. I didn’t poop for five days. Not since I got to Xiehe. I only went to the bathroom on the 5th or 6th when they took off my EKG. There was a toilet so I could sit. I was shitting blood. I thought it was a hemorrhoid but it wasn’t. It was intestinal damage. And I also ripped my anus because I didn’t shit in 5 days. I was so miserable. I couldn’t hold it in but I didn't want to do it in bed. I took off the oxygen, asked the nurse to take me off EKG, and walked slowly. Each step caused a coughing fit. Actually I had the strength to get out of bed, but I coughed with each motion and it was hard for me to breath. It took me 5 minutes just walking there. I was coughing in the bathroom too. Can’t push. S: Why did you switch wards? WK: Before the 10th they placed everyone in either severe case ward or ICU. ICU is completely isolated. It’s for people whose lives were at risk. But the numbers were growing and there weren't enough wards, so they had to separate severe cases and light cases. I was almost cured, but still counted as a severe case. At the time only Jinshuitan was taking patients with unknown pneumonia in Wuhan. I was transferred to another severe case ward on the 10th. I could walk in the room, pour water, and bathe myself. I could do all that. S: Who shared a ward with you? WK: For the second severe case ward there were 4 people, including me. There was an old guy, 62 years old, an old woman, 68 years old, and another guy, 42 years old. I spent 5 days there before being released. Those 3 barely ate anything and nobody took care of them. When the nurses were feeding them they couldn’t take anything in. The meals at the hospital were nutritious, but tasted bad at first. On the first day it was terrible. The second day it was good. Beef, lamb, chicken, duck, fish, pretty balanced. Yogurt and fruits, too. But they didn’t have the appetite. Feeling better after release S: When did you think you are pretty much fine? WK: After I could move by myself. I was getting better by the day. I didn’t cough much in the hospital after that. S: How did the doctor notify you that you could leave? WK: On 13th, I took some tests and chest CT. Ran some blood work too. The doctor notified me on 14th after giving me an injection. Said my chest looked good and to get my family here on 15th. The doctor told me to avoid crowds, rest, and take my medications on time. S: How do you feel after being released? WK: I was released at noon. I had a craving for sesame paste noodles. Haven’t had it in so long. So I walked to have some. I had half a bowl. I could walk by myself, but not very fast. I got cramps at the beginning. Not a lot of strength in my legs. My mom could walk faster than me despite being much older. I wasn’t overly confident, even after being released, because I stayed in bed for about 20 days. Didn’t exercise at all. The second day I forced myself to take a walk near my home. My dad and mom were worried and didn’t want me to go out, and kept bugging me to come back. When I came back in the afternoon I felt much better than the first day. I had more strength, and could walk faster. Less fatigued, too. S: How do you feel now? WK: I’m gaining strength, which is good. I still have trouble with digestive functions. I can’t run but can walk for a very long time. I get sad and cry sometimes because my family were so worried. My mom is more than 60 years old. She cried every day at home. My 4 uncles, 2 aunts, and my aunt-in-law were kind to me, as well as my neighbors. After I got well they sent me stuff. They sent me milk and money, and came to visit. When I was sick, my friend went to Xiehe to visit but the doctor wouldn’t let him in. He looked through the glass door and cried upstairs. S: Is your sister OK after taking care of you? WK: She caught a cold after getting out. I hurried her to hospital to check and they said it was common cold. S: Did you realize how serious it was when the doctors told you it was pneumonia? WK: I’m not on my phone that much. When my friends told me I might’ve been infected with that I said I wouldn’t be so unlucky. I only realized how serious it was when I watched the news after I was released. When I was in hospital I thought it was just an illness because I never got so ill before. S: How much did you spend on treatment? WK: About 20000 CNY. 10000 CNY in Xiehe Hospital. I barely spent anything at Jinyintan Hospital, just 3000 for deposit and 300 for meals. They didn’t charge me for anything else.
- 2 boxes of 20 N95 masks plus one N100 respirator (particle filter only) to add to the one I have already. Home Depot had plenty. Walmart supercenter was out of stock.
- 1+ lb dried elderberries and 3+ lbs honey to make syrup as needed (or a decoction sans the honey for my wife who avoids all things sweet).
- Plenty of nonperishable foods stuffs sufficient to to meet the family's varied dietary needs.
- Reviewing Stephen Harrod Buhner's facebook post from today and considering some/all of those herbs.
Repost from “Treyfish” " on Flutrackers:
Quarantine order execution process
2020-01-08
◆ Patients seek medical treatment from public / private hospitals or private clinics
◆ Whether the doctor’s diagnosis and treatment meet the two major requirements of isolation:
- Have been to Wuhan within 14 days before the onset of illness;
- Symptoms of fever, pneumonia, and upper respiratory tract infection
◆ If so, the doctor must fill in the report form and call the CHP to report
◆ After analysis by the Centre for Health Protection, an isolation order will be issued by the Director of Health when necessary to force patients to isolate
◆ Patients must be sent to a public hospital for medical treatment. If the quarantine order is violated, the maximum fine is 5,000 yuan and the prison is 6 months.
(see: https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/the-pandemic-discussion-forum/822041-discussion-thread-2019-ncov-new-coronavirus?p=822277#post822277 )
Hey, does elderberry wine work the same as jam? I just bottled 30 bottles a couple months ago.
This is a little scary. This reads exactly like a thriller novel on a pandemic. A bat somehow infected a snake which then infected a human…and here we are:
The current outbreak of viral pneumonia in the city of Wuhan, China, was caused by a novel coronavirus designated 2019‐nCoV by the World Health Organization, as determined by sequencing the viral RNA genome. Many patients were potentially exposed to wildlife animals at the Huanan seafood wholesale market, where poultry, snake, bats, and other farm animals were also sold. To determine the possible virus reservoir, we have carried out comprehensive sequence analysis and comparison in conjunction with relative synonymous codon usage (RSCU) bias among different animal species based on existing sequences of the newly identified coronavirus 2019‐nCoV. Results obtained from our analyses suggest that the 2019‐nCoV appears to be a recombinant virus between the bat coronavirus and an origin‐unknown coronavirus. The recombination occurred within the viral spike glycoprotein, which recognizes cell surface receptor. Additionally, our findings suggest that snake is the most probable wildlife animal reservoir for the 2019‐nCoV based on its RSCU bias resembling snake compared to other animals. Taken together, our results suggest that homologous recombination within the spike glycoprotein may contribute to cross‐species transmission from snake to humans. (Source)Amazing to have these results so quickly.
The systems upon which we depend includes stuff like:
- The guy who delivers fuel oil by truck for a our home heaters
- The grocery store clerks that make food distribution possible
- The doctors and nurses who staff the overcrowded clinics and hospitals
- They guys who keep the water and nat gas system tuned up.
A woman has been filmed devouring a bat while at a market at the centre of the deadly coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan. WARNING: Graphic
Masks won’t stop you getting sick. You also need goggles over your eyes.
Can wearing masks stop the spread of viruses?
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51205344Face masks have not been shown to help. Vitamin C seems to help but only people doing strenuously exercise like marathoners. There is some evidence that zinc may help in reducing duration and intensity of symptoms. However, be aware that the intranasal preparation can permanently alter sense of smell. Personally, I take zinc at the first hint of viral symptoms, but would never take the intranasal kind.
Wash your hands, Wash your hands, And, wash your hands some more. Never let your hands get near your face…trust me, easier said than done. I walk around the hospital and see nurses and all sorts of people touching their face. I even get on to them that they should never do that in the middle of flu season yet the next day I’ll see the same thing.
BTW, saw this article today on “Tax-exempt” healthcare systems. Everyone should spread the link to this article to everyone they know. I work for one of these big healthcare corporations and this is exactly what’s going one, and I’m utterly disgusted.
https://www.medicaleconomics.com/article/how-nonprofit-hospitals-get-away-biggest-rip-america?fbclid=IwAR2ji8AC1N1OD623PsLa-SCKdzVPlE4LLCMnMe79L-in6NyHYRBsWZ_7VBE