England considering lowering interest rates to levels not seen since 1694 and open to a rate of ZERO in the near future!
[quote=gregroberts]"And some of you need to ease off on this Ayn Rand worship train. Some fundamental understanding of economies does not make her pseudo academic philosophy of Objectivism an absolute model for human action. "
Funny how the mere mention of Ayn Rand sets some people off, especially people who have never read any of her works, I have not seen much mention of her on this site and certainly no worship. My guess is your favorite book is Ulysses by James Joyce?
I’ve read every single one of her books and I despise her philosophy.
Hi Switters-
I found your comment about not being one to underestimate the control of the ruling elite, yet thinking one could overestimate their amount of control now, at a time when there are so many variables at play, very interesting. I've been wondering about that too: whether there has been too much "black or whilte" thinking about the financial elite in terms of "no intervenion" or "all intervention". Maybe it is is really somewhere in the gray area. (...closer to the all intervention side, of course:)
"I’ve read every single one of her books and I despise her philosophy."
All of it? That’s makes you kind of a scary person in my eyes. You despise individual rights, economic and political freedom, that reality exists independent of conciousness, that logic and reason are man’s key to survival? Wow!
No, I don’t reject all of it and you present the typical Rand-cult synopsis of her views. I reject her homophobia, lack of altruism, religious faith in the free market, categorial condemnation and shallow understanding of religion (except her own religion of laissez-faire capitalism), objectification of nature as solely a resource for man to exploit - to name a few.
[quote=pinecarr]Hi Switters-
I found your comment about not being one to underestimate the control of the ruling elite, yet thinking one could overestimate their amount of control now, at a time when there are so many variables at play, very interesting. I’ve been wondering about that too: whether there has been too much "black or whilte" thinking about the financial elite in terms of "no intervenion" or "all intervention". Maybe it is is really somewhere in the gray area. (…closer to the all intervention side, of course:)
[/quote]
I think the recent actions of Paulson strongly support the idea that the ruling elite is not in full control over what’s happening. They’re flailing around trying to find a solution, and it isn’t working out so well. The grey area is usually where the truth lies, in my experience.
Nice summary of Rand.
SG
Well I’ve been severly humbled, once again.
I was apperently in the confusionists camp on the deflation matter.
This (link below) had to have been the best point of clarity on this inflation deflation debate.
Interested in hearing your thoughts on it.
Take care
http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcast/fsn2008-1108-3b.asx really good
Famine will quickly lead to war since they will disproportionally affect large population centers that are currently net agriculture importers (ie China and India). War will be started long before the necessary amount of population reduction is achieved through famine. Pestilence will quickly lead to finger pointing between nations as they shut down borders under duress and will quickly trigger famine in net agriculture importers leading once again to war.
To avoid the awful long run scenario and war, there has to be a series of miracles -
Peak Oil is wrong and we have stumbled upon brand new oil to sustain current growth for an additional generation
Global effort to discover and commercialize new energy source succeeds (eg cold fusion).
Current capitalistic economy is transitioned over the generation into communist economy so systemic inefficiencies are deliberately introduced and reinforced through central planning to curb exponential growth.
Switch back to capitalism once we figured out how to colonize space and back and forth between the 2 economic models as necessary so growth only occurs at the right time and for the right duration.
[quote=switters][quote=pinecarr]
Hi Switters-
I found your comment about not being one to underestimate the control of the ruling elite, yet thinking one could overestimate their amount of control now, at a time when there are so many variables at play, very interesting. I've been wondering about that too: whether there has been too much "black or whilte" thinking about the financial elite in terms of "no intervenion" or "all intervention". Maybe it is is really somewhere in the gray area. (...closer to the all intervention side, of course:)
[/quote]
I think the recent actions of Paulson strongly support the idea that the ruling elite is not in full control over what’s happening. They’re flailing around trying to find a solution, and it isn’t working out so well. The grey area is usually where the truth lies, in my experience.
[/quote]
Global elites were never in full control of any event. They are people just like the rest of us after all. The most they can do and want to do is introducing the right incentives at the right place at the right time to lead the rest of us along their thinkings. They read and analyze the data and meet at Davos to discuss pressing issues. Their memberships are not exclusive and anyone with sufficient credentials and experience can join their ranks. When faced with massive uncertainties they can stumble too, like Paulson. Given the news media has previously reported Peak Oil extensively I’m sure they are fully aware of this phenomenon and the financial crisis is one manifestation of their management of this phenomenon, however hapless it may seem.
The bottom line is they are a group who has been managing the global order for over 300 years now. The system they have introduced regardless of its flaws are quite ingenius - they can cause inflation and deflation as necessary, and if national debt ever becomes unsustainable they can keep interest rate at 0% and monetize all excess national debt at 0% until the debter recovers. They’ve even had trapdoors planned so if necessary they can bring forth communism peacefully by quietly forclosing on the entire world’s assets, or sell enough assets to reintroduce capitalism.
[/quote]
I think the recent actions of Paulson strongly support the idea that the ruling elite is not in full control over what’s happening. They’re flailing around trying to find a solution, and it isn’t working out so well. The grey area is usually where the truth lies, in my experience.
[/quote]
so much for the benevolent dictator…
Quotation from "A Brief History of Neoliberalism" by David Harvey.
"The two economic engines that have powered the world through the global recession that set in after 2001 have been the United States and China. The irony is that both have been behaving like Keynesian states in a world supposedly governed by neoliberal rules. The US has resorted to massive deficit-financing of its militarism and its consumerism, while China has debt-financed with non-performing bank loans massive infrastructural and fixed-capital investments. True blue neoliberals will doubtless claim that the recession is a sign of insufficient or imperfect neoliberalization, and they could well point to the IMF and the army of well-paid lobbyists in Washington that regularly pervert US budgetary process for their special-interest ends as evidence for their case. But their claims are impossible to verify, and, in making them, they merely follow in the footsteps of a long line of eminent economic theorists who argue that all would be well witht he world if only everyone behaved according to the precepts of their textbooks."
That doesn’t mean they either believe or understand it…
People like Paulson would undoubtedly tell you that the markets and technology will find a solution to PO.
Interesting article about the G20 meeting this weekend…
http://www.moneyandmarkets.com/the-g-20s-secret-debt-solution-27996
[quote=Damnthematrix][quote=T]
Given the news media has previously reported Peak Oil extensively I’m sure they are fully aware of this phenomenon and the financial crisis is one manifestation of their management of this phenomenon, however hapless it may seem.
[/quote]
That doesn’t mean they either believe or understand it…
People like Paulson would undoubtedly tell you that the markets and technology will find a solution to PO.
[/quote]
The peak oil concept itself is not hard to understand. What’s the right course in response to that is the problem though - technology is one way, free market is another, war is another, do nothing is another … I think the reason the response looks hapless right now is global elites are fractured and some want to pull things one way and others are driving it the other way. If the stalemate continues the long run scenario will be realized sooner than later. Assume peak oil assumptions all hold eventually everyone including global elites will realize there is NO palatable way to reduce the fundamental issue of peak oil - too many people (aka oil consumers) other than war. If war is decided upon however a quick and surgical strike is most preferable than a drawn out conflict with or without collapsed governments, hence the thermal nuclear endgame.
T,
You can bet there will be war, new technologies and even some free market solutions in response to peak oil. As you point out, the difficulty of getting everyone to agree on how to approach it (or should I say impossibility?) will ensure that whatever response we do come up with will be far less effective than it could or should be.
Somewhat related…I always liked this Utah Phillips quotation.
You’re about to be told one more time that you’re America’s most valuable natural resource. Have you seen what they do to valuable natural resources? Have you seen a strip mine? Have you seen a clearcut in the forest? Have you seen a polluted river? Don’t ever let them call you a valuable natural resource. They’re gonna strip mine your soul. They’re gonna clearcut your best thoughts for the sake of profit, unless you learn to resist.
Localized economies and diversification is paramount in any solution.
Hi gregroberts-
Thanks for the link to the article by Larry Edelson at Money and Markets. I tend to like his articles, and hadn't seen this one yet. Interesting topic, too!
Peter Schiff is back…
Good article on why things are different now than during the Great Depression…
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/73805
Excerpt
"In a fiat monetary system, there will always be a balancing act
between inflation and deflation since the money must be manipulated by
the central banking system. It is however, very rare for a fiat system
to suffer from deflation because of the very nature of the monetary
system itself and it only occurs when there has been a boom in the
business cycle brought about by, once again, central banking
manipulation of interest rates.
Of course, in our “collective” memory, the only thing we can
associate deflation with is The Great Depression however, that memory
when compared to our current deflationary bout is skewed by the
differences between the two monetary systems; the one which existed
prior to 1934 and then the one that now exist that came about in 1971.
It should be obvious, but perhaps not, that a foundational difference
in the monetary systems will have profound effects on both inflation
and deflation; along with economic movements and behaviors. In a way,
the world was turned upside down in the 30s, not because of The Great
Depression, but because of the actions taken by our government in
concert with the Federal Reserve Banking System."