You really seem to be on the anti-chloroquine bandwagon. How did you get there? Who convinced you to be in that place? The idea of self-medicating is your straw man… I don’t know anyone here who is suggesting that. What I would do, for myself or a family member who is at risk, would be to find a MD who would prescribe.
As well, you are behind the curve in your knowledge. Both JerryR and myself have been promoting the CLINICAL data and regimen that Dr. Zelenko in NY has now treated hundreds of patients with.
Please educate yourself; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlmAHSCRIns
Matt-
Edit: To be a bit clearer, I’m aiming at this comment by jerryr: “ Would you encourage a patient in a high risk category to wait for double blind peer reviewed studies?” My reply: are you encouraging patients in a high risk category to start taking chloroquine?I'm not jerryr. But if I were in a high risk category, and I had either symptoms or risk (close contact with a positive patient), I would find a doctor who would first make sure HCQ will do no harm to me, and then if that's true, would help me to start a treatment regime as early as possible. Of course I'd also get tested, but - if the CT scan showed me to be presumptively-positive, I'd push my doctor to start treatment immediately. [I might also enroll in that COVID-PEP trial I linked to in another forum, if the situation applied.] I've also found that, with the US medical system, you often have to be your own strong advocate. Otherwise - the system can end up providing you with minimal care, rather than appropriate care. “You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.”
As was clear in my message, I advocate the research of chloroquine and other treatments in a clinical setting. I’m as keen as anyone for us to gain useful treatments.
What evidence do you have that chloroquine is useful prophylactically, which you seem to be advocating? Are there no risks?
Matt, Here is my opinion;
- Use the regimen prophylactically for medical professionals that are at risk of multiple exposures. We know that a higher viral dose, like an infected cough right in the face, is more likely to quickly overcome one’s immune response. India has chosen to do this.
- Use the Zelenko protocol, which you still don’t seem to understand. Dr. Zelenko does not give everyone and anyone the medicine - but he does give it IMMEDIATELY to anyone who does have risk factors like advanced age, hypertension, etc., and is presenting with the disease. He has said in one or another of the interviews that if there were a quick turnaround test available - he would wait for a positive result to treat, but for now he does not have that luxury.
Dr. Zelenko, at 28:00 minutes in the following interview, states the following of the (heart related) risks; “They are highly theoretical and almost unheard of - I have spoken to multiple colleagues and no one has ever seen it”. He then goes on to wonder how anyone could imagine these risks being higher than the risk dying from this virus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Oq6IOP1sd8
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I don’t know how you reached the conclusion that I don’t understand Dr Zelenko’s protocol, when I haven’t even mentioned or commented on it.
I ask again, what evidence do you have that would support prophylactic use e.g. for health workers?
For prophylactic use, surely you must balance risk against risk, whatever the merits of Dr Zelenko’s ‘death’s door’ argument.
When you listen to anyone it is imperative to recognize first their biases and secondly their areas of expertise. As a virologist she was brilliant… and I totally focused on her knowledge which she imparted in a detailed but understandable way. Her comments on masks and supplements were outside of her preview and mostly irrelevant to the topic of the interview. Wow…I have a newfound interest in virology thanks to her. This was perhaps one of the most riveting hours I have spent on my iPad.
If this “cocktail” is used, and your own body builds the antibodies, would you still need a vaccine, if there was a vaccine?
You were the first to bring up prophylaxis Matt.. you are the king of the straw man argument tonight. Hydroxychloroquine is used for years on end for people with rheumatoid arthritis and Lupus... why in the heck are we to be scared of it now that we are facing the possibility of hospitals filled with people on ventilators, > 50% of which will die? What on God's green earth point are you trying to make? People stay on this drug for 10 years and don't get retinopathy. There are only the most minimal of risks for the five day course Zelenko recommends.
Maybe Trump could order a study. Would be good for his ratings.
I enjoyed this podcast as much as many of the ones I have seen. Chris, you looked relaxed and were spot on in the direction you took to allow this very bright person to speak on the things she was more than capable in talking about and she was relaxed because of your efforts and frankly she did not disappoint in anything she said or the explanations she gave. Just a very fabulous and informational piece. Again, you are in your groove Dr. and appear to be reveling in your Doctor to Doctor conversations for which you and your host are more than qualified to speak about.
Concur the majority of the interview was very good, Chris is definitely gifted in his ability to conduct a logic and thought provoking conversation. Also, glad to see others in the community pick up on the bias related to mask and supplements my wife and I both were shaking our heads on those comments to us it reveals and underlying philosophy.
Looks like the numbers are getting better. Has Virginia peaked?
For the last two updates, the rate has been linear. Still far to soon. My optometric practice is closed save emergencies.
What evidence do you have that chloroquine is useful prophylactically, which you seem to be advocating? Are there no risks?1) risks: I'd ask my doctor what the risks are. It has been around for decades. Presumably the risks are pretty well known at this point. 2) evidence: none, of course. I'm guessing that's why someone is starting both a PEP and a PREP trial for HCQ. Trials is how we get the evidence. I'd look to join one, if I were a contact, or a family member. Certainly I'd understand it if you would prefer to wait for the trial result - if you had high risk, and your family member were infected. Me? I'd join a trial and help science move forward. I'm a pro-science kind of guy. :)
Dr. Rasmussen’s expertise really shined through during this interview. And the sharing of her (and Chris’s) humanity, thoughts, fears, concerns, and values were gems that come from a well done, long form podcast.
While the depression of the 1930’s affected the mindset of a generation, don’t forget some of the severe recessions that followed. I was in elementary school during the recession of 1974. My ironworker dad was out of work for 2 years, and my family was on unemployment insurance but too proud to accept free/reduced lunches at school. We couldn’t afford hot lunch, so I brought a cold lunch every day and brought my sandwich bags home to re-use them the next day. And yes, our family would save onion tops so nothing went to waste. This frugality stuck with me, and has helped me succeed professionally and financially. Even when I was pulling in a 6-figure salary, I often saved and reused my sandwich bags.
There’s a psychological trade-off between an abundance mentality and a scarcity mentality, if we get the balance right, our society will be better off. We will truly appreciate the pleasure/joy/wonder of eating an avocado in a northern climate or taking a hot shower on a cold morning. Gratitude for what we do have leads to happiness and/or contentment. Desire and pining for what we don’t have leads to unhappiness and suffering.
I agree that the Doctor’s interview was interesting…and boring. She was extremely interesting when speaking on her field of virology. She was a crashing bore when speaking on other topics: infectious disease prevention, masks, supplements and how they work in the body, the studies of immunity and history, including her own family history.
“My mom is a die hard Vitamin C fan, I’m a lot more evidence based…”
Okay Doctor, I’ll wait for Linus Pauling and the hundreds of other studies, including the latest ones on the effectiveness of Vitamin C dosing in Covid-19 patients, to catch you up on that evidence.
Masks! Chris, you showed chivalrous restraint, and allowed her to reveal her own ignorance, I hope someone enlightens her on the studies of masks and how they work in respiratory disease control. Masks, they aren’t just for doctors anymore, even the rest of us can be instructed on how to wear them correctly.
Doctor your assertion that there is no such thing as an immune booster: it might be nice to read some studies outside your own field now and then.I specifically recommend studies on the science of sleep and how it affects the immune system, ditto for stress, and diet, and a field you seem not to be aquatinted with yet, epigenetics.
In fact if you cared to read up on it, stress is a major driving force in evolution. And while you are waiting for those books of study you ordered to complete your education, perhaps you might speak with any living relatives about your family history, like I did with my grandmother, who was also born in 1911. I had several conversations with her over the years about the historic events she lived through. It gave me a wonderful perspective on her generation and its wisdom and what we in our youthful hubris might overlook. Guess what her family did to live through the 1918 Spanish Flu? Probably the same thing your grandmother’s family did, they socially distanced yes, but they washed their hands, cleaned the house, wore masks and ate oranges, oh and they slept with the windows cracked open. They believed in the value of sunlight, fresh air and good food and good sleep. My grandmother lived to 90 years old, every day of her life she got up and ate a whole orange for breakfast, went for a long walk (usually to church) getting lots of sunlight, she also got a full night’s sleep with the window open, even in the most freezing winter conditions. She kept a very clean house. You want evidence? Honey, you ARE the evidence. You lived because of the habits your grandmother and your mother and other ancestors had that saved their lives and yours.
Totally lost respect for Ms. Rasmussen when she poo-pooed supplements and herbals. History has shown us that insufficient amounts of proper nutrients can cause disease, just look at scurvy. Food is medicine and if you can’t get the nutrients you need supplementation is called for. And many, many modern medicines came from homeopathic, herbal medicines. For instance aspirin and digitalis.
Agree with nordicjack
Moving on , regarding the right for people to manage their health as they see fit.. There are tons of “real” studies showing many supplements do work for disease. There are natural compounds that have anti-inflammatory abilities, immune modulating properties, neuro-protective, cardio protective, hepa protective etc.. In fact, NAC is used for tylenol induced liver damage in the hospital. And , any medical person who says that Vitamin D, Zinc, Vitamin C and Calcium and Magnesium and virtually all vitamins and minerals are not involved in proper immune response, and all biological responses for that matter , should leave medicine all together.In my own family I have seen low levels of iron, Vitamin D and zinc deficiency all be corrected through supplementation. Ms. Rasmussen may doing real harm with her bias. Makes me wonder where her paycheck comes from. She seems pro vaccine rather than holistic health. Sad
I agree , the whole thing with men more susceptible is way over-blown. I have seen studies and nothing varying more than 7% - which is really only 3% as it swings. If you were to evaluate populations, by country or city, you would find the same. And there are more men in china since the 1 child law. And men do not generally live as long as women and any illness will likely have greater fatality in them. There is no where enough statistical significance , after accounting for populations, to even closely suggest women have some sort of non-susceptibility or inferred protection. Tell that to all the women who have had Covid. This along with the smoking should be put to rest. Though smoking has direct immuno suppressing effects on lung surfacant, no real evidence exists this is causing people to die. The smokers who have died are in direct relation to their percent in the population.
Is it just me, or do the numbers coming out of California seem artificially low, especially in the Bay Area?