James Dines: Owning 'Wealth in the Ground' Is Your Best Bet to Surviving the Coming 'Supernova of Inflations'

Well if I may wade into the Starling issue, like jturbo68 I also remember recently reading something about scientists studying this group dynamic and discovering that millisecond pressure differentials can be transmitted across flocks of birds or schools of fish and can explain the amazing flock behavior. Or something to that effect.
So the physics of the motion probably has a "logical" explanation but I don’t see the reason for all the disagreement here because the consciousness that exists in all of our brains to be able to process that information is indeed "incomprehensible" to science. Same with our mass psychology. I will go out on a limb here and argue that technology / science will never be able to construct artificial biological intelligence, and be able to figure out how thoughts emerge from electrical signals, because it is a nonlinear phenomenon originating at the quatum level where cause-and-effect are no longer predictable. I think this is what James Dines was alluding to.

That’s the miracle of life. A true scientist, far from trivializing and reducing life to logical bits and bytes, is amazed by it and stands in wonder at how complex everything is and how it could possibly all come together in such perfect unison to culminate in what we see on Earth right now – the very same Earth we are quickly destroying with our maladapted mass stupidity psychopathic behavior. But this behavior is not totally unjustifiable because our brains simply did not evolve in an environment to be able to comprehend and responsibly interact with the information and stimuli we are now facing. We evolved in small groups of a few dozen or hundred individuals, and fought with our neighbours out of necessity, and our populations were kept in check by predators or other natural constraints. Our "growth" psychology was a necessary strategy of counteracting the natural constraints and hardships that tended to "decline" us. In all natural poluations a balance is struck between growth and reduction.

That’s where we came from and that’s how we are wired. I interpret what Chris says of the "journey inward and mastering yourself" to be in effect, moving your consciousness beyond those tribal involuntary and predictable knee jerk reactions that are "programmed" into us (both genetically and socially). Of course that can get into the topic of religion etc. which is a no-no on this site so let’s leave it at that.

But we haven’t been able to escape those natural constraints that used to keep us in check, which we also used to and continue to constantly fight in order to survive. But now the consequences of those behaviors are of the scale that could easily destroy the world, and based on our current trajectory, likely will, at least the world as we know it.

As I like to say, "If you aren’t amazed then you aren’t paying attention". If I wanted to take a more philosophical stance, I’d say we should take a step back in order to contemplate our rare opportunity to be able witness a historic period in the history of life on earth and contemplate why we are here right now armed with the knowledge to be able to make sense of it. There will be a lot of pain going forward but ife on earth will continue on regardless, we still have a few hundred million years left before the sun envelops us. We are just right in the center of all the action.

[quote=Jim H]Chris Martenson: It does. It says that during the first part of our lives we go out into the world and we collect information from around us. And that at some point you have to understand that the next journey is inward, and the true mastery of the world involves mastering yourself more than facts and figures and data and information from outside. Is that right?
This is absolute Gold folks… wisdom distilled. 
[/quote]
Chris’s ablility to distill wisdom is why I am and will continue to be a subscriber. 

Folks, I have enjoyed every word here.
Honestly, I never honed in on the starling thing, not even a little bit. Frankly, all I gathered from that bit of news from the podcast was that’s surely a flock of chit if I walked under them (a stab at humor). They are beautiful to watch though, and if pondering herd mentality would be a visual example of how to use it in explaining to others what that looks like.

What I took away was completely different. I heard a gentlemen discuss his rather unique story, places (mental exercises) he’s been to, and still looking to stay ahead of the herd.

All his visualizing ,he did when slide rules, compasses, graph paper, and # 2 pencils were the tools, and intuition, and observations his Internet source. The logic, the mental pathways Mr. Dines took just had to be gifted. 

Mr. Dines has my more than casual respect, and I have never talked to him. I have no clue who this Man really is. Just my gut is telling me that I would really enjoy spending a day with him. I trust my gut. I will work to get a glimmer more of his thoughts but I won’t be deceived that I will REALLY know him. I’m guessing though that he will add to my knowledge base , and that’s all I seek.

Mr. Dines is more than he represented in our podcast (it was terrific), we just don’t know how much. Never will really. Respectfully given…BOB

This is an excellent comment section.  I am happy that the contents of this podcast resonated here.  Mr. Dines has been paying attention and gathered wisdom along the way and seems to be living life according to an internal guidance system that I perceive as coming from a place of authenticity and integrity.
Whether it happens to utilize the same set of operating principles that you or I hold dear does not shift that perception for me.  I enjoy people who unapologetically live by their principles, often because the contrast helps to illuminate and call into question my own internal guidelines.

Either I am evolving and learning or I am stagnating.  Both have their places and times, but right now happens to be a period of rather robust evolution, which is why I rather enjoyed the discussion with Mr. Dines.

Regarding the murmurations, is there more there for science to learn?  Undoubtedly.  We still don’t know how accurate migration guidance works (magnetic fields?  celestial navigation?) so there is certainly some form of sensory input which is yet to be understood.  Could there be other more subtle ones than the ability to fly 13,000 miles accurately in all weather acoss open water?  That’s a pretty safe bet.

I like to remain open to the idea that magic and mystery surround us still, and that many surprises yet remain for us humans.  As a scientist that watched hundreds of hours of live cells doing their thing under high-powered microscopes, I consider myself to be more awed by the mystery of life than people who have never spent a single minute on the topic.  It simply boggles the mind.  Well, my mind at any rate.

I don’t know why, but in rereading this thread, I picked up for the first time the footer in our good friend Arthur Robey’s comment;
"Absolute certainty is a privilege of uneducated minds-and fanatics. It is, for scientific folk, an unattainable ideal." Cassius J. Keyser ."

And it struck me as saying much the same thing being presented on a very thought provoking ZH post today…;

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/failure-inflation-targeting-hubris-central-planning-lost-pilot-effect-and-economist-idiocy 

I was enamored with Feynman’s intellect myself (I am at least smart enough to realize and appreciate that there a people way, way smarter than I), hence I thought it cool that the author of the ZH piece related it to our current state of affairs, described aptly I think by one Mr. Turd Ferguson as, "The end of the great Keynesian experiment".

from ZH;

Grice on exposing faux experts (virtually all of them) using the methodology of one Richard Feynman:

 
 
One of my favourite people of the 20th century is Richard Feynman, the Nobel Prize winning physicist who, among other things, pioneered the study of quantum electrodynamics. In a fantastic documentary about him for BBC's Horizon show called "The Pleasure of Finding Things Out" he said something I found moving and profound. He was talking about the "experts" he saw on TV and how although he didn't have any expertise in the area they claimed to have expertise in, he felt quite sure that they didn't know what they were talking about. He said this: 

"There are myths and pseudo-science all over the place. I might be quite wrong, maybe they do know all this … but I don’t think I’m wrong, you see I have the advantage of having found out how difficult it is to really know something. How careful you have to be about checking the experiments, how easy it is to make mistakes and fool yourself. I know what it means to know something. And therefore, I see how they get their information and I can’t believe that they know it. They haven’t done the work necessary, they haven’t done the checks necessary, they haven’t taken the care necessary. I have a great suspicion that they don’t know and that they’re intimidating people."

My take from the article:  If you believe the folks steering the economic/fiscal/monetary ship, sitting in places of power, Governmental, Corporate, and CB, really know what they are doing regarding the hugely complex, interactive system (aka house of cards) they/we have built… you have another thing coming.

Good sale this month on long shelf life spinach here if you are willing to buy 12 cans…

  http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_FN%20S150_A_name_E_Provident%20Pantry®%20Freeze%20Dried%20Chopped%20Spinach%20-%205%20oz      

 

Well, I looked into investing in gold about 3 years ago.  I first decided that physical posession of gold was the only rational choice. I have read that there are more gold futures, etc. than there is gold and a fair amount of fraud is going on.  I checked with local pawn shops & jewelery stores.  No one local is dealing with gold as an investment.  I realize that any form of gold is an option but gold coins as in Eagles or Krugerands, etc. was the rational choice.  I drove to the next larger town (about 20 miles away) to a couple of shops that advertised the buying and selling of gold.  Their markup was 8% over the daily gold price.  I know someone in a larger, out of state town that has been buying gold coins for several years & he pays a 4% markup. I did not buy any gold. I rethought my gold investment strategy.
Now what happens if I pay 8% premium to buy?  Thats OK if gold goes up at least 8%. Obviously it has. But wait, if there is a premium to buy, I bet there is a premium to sell to a dealer.  Another 8%?..Maybe.  This is not a metropolitan area so buying and selling options are limited. AND I have to drive 20 miles one way.  If things get that bad, can I get there?  Can I get there safely? And back!  How much will gas cost?  Will there be any gas available?  If I am about the only vehicle on the road, do not I become a target?  If gas is $20 or more per gallon I must be rich if I am driving other than maybe VERY local.

Suppose I bought  a fair number of gold coins at $1,600 per ounce.  Suppose gold goes up to $5,000 per ounce.  I have made lots of money but my cash dollars will be worth nearly nothing. Not even considering the other major difficulties going on if things get that bad (WTSHTF) or (TEOTWAWKI). It may risk my life to go cash any coins in.  Can I show up at the grocery store to pay with a $5,000 Krugerand?  Will they run a credit balance for me? I am assuming that a $5.000 gold coin will buy more than a couple weeks worth of food.  If people know I have gold does not that make me a target?  I am sure that those times will be very dangerous.  I do not trust the "authorities" to keep me safe. Many of them are already part of the cause of problems and may become part of the danger.

Ultimately I decided that gold was not worth the risk. It may be better to have gold than have not, but I think that ultimately knowledge, skills, tools, rational preparations and dependable friends and family are assets more valuable than gold.

Well… you have tried pretty hard to rationalize your decision not to buy Gold… but it’s really not as hard as you paint it.  First off, as long as the "system" is functioning, you can do all of your transactions via mail… in fact, Tulving’s buy/sell numbers are all published on his website, and no, the spread is not 16%;http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html
Although all of us who prep need to figure out our own balance of savings outside the system in Gold/Silver/other … vs. preps like food, tools, guns, and seeds… your juxtaposition of knowledge and friends vs. Gold, as if the two were somehow mutually exclusive, shows just how tortured (my word of the day) your effort to rationalize your own decision making is.  I am not saying this to be mean… only to try and help others who read your post understand that this is actually a great time to buy Gold and Silver… right NOW.  The parabolic phase is yet to come.  I am still buying as I get free cash… have a small order in flight from Gainesville coins right now.  The last thing I am worrying about is whether I can manage to sell Gold in the midst of SHTF… .that is not the point.       
If you have savings in dollars that you want to survive the coming debacle, say to pass along to another generation, you need some Gold and Silver.     
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/2/4_Pento_-_Bond_Bubble_to_Destroy_US_Dollar_%26_Restore_Gold.html   

Sorry if any html tags are shown above, they show up in my “preview” and I can’t figure out how to delete them. [Adam: issue corrected]
Regarding “Resource Scarcity” and the statement about neo-malthusianism:  “but with the world’s population soaring into the billions on an accelerating uptrend, something is going to break. “

I absolutely disagree.

Demographics tell a completely different story.  The population of the world, according to many studies, will drastically plummet around 2050; there is no avoiding it at this point.  The number of children born per couple/fertility rate is now below replacement rate even in what historically has been “large family” countries: South and Central America, Middle Eastern countries, even some African countries.   Most Western countries have had fertility rates below replacement rate for a long time.  Even Iran has a fertility rate below replacement rate now.

Population will continue to grow until around 2050, but it is not the number of births which are causing the high numbers, it is the decrease in mortality for the elderly.  Better hygiene, better health care, etc. is blessing many, many people with a very long life; this is not normal in the entire history of the world.  There are more people on earth because there are more people living much longer lives.  Because of the “birth dearth”, most current elderly and middel aged will have passed away by 2050, but after that there will be a rapid decline in the number of people.  To add to this upcoming disaster, China, India, and some other countries are creating a hug disproportion in the gender balance; they are slaughtering their baby girls.  Countries in history with many unattached young men…put them in the military and into wars to keep them off the streets.  Add post-cheap energy to this picture and industrial production will decline, current mega-agriculture practices will stop,  worldwide transportation of inexpensive “stuff” will stop,  tax revenues will drastically decline, and the landscape will be littered (more) with abandoned and decaying buildings.  You can throw economic growth right out the window and scarcity of many commodities that so many are currently concerned about won’t matter much anymore.  I see no alternative except that much of the world will go back to the historical “normal”, the “cheap energy blip” in time will be just that…a blip, and the world will/must go back to sane, more locally based economies and production, with the conservation of resources returned to the level of high priority it has historically held .

Below are just some easily found sources on this topic.  There are many studies in refereed journals around the world that back it up, too.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/eo20110820a2.html

http://www.scielosp.org/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S004296862012000100005&lng=en&nrm=iso&tlng=en

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/13/38/16587241.pdf

http://longevity-science.org/Population_Aging.htm

http://lake.k12.fl.us/1681201015121318897/lib/1681201015121318897/_files/iran_family_planning.pdf

 

For those who might not have seen this piece that relates to some of our discussion on this thread, and relates it to investing;
http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/cris-sheridan/markets-murmurations-machines

"What makes possible the uncanny coordination of these murmurations, as starling flocks are so beautifully known? Until recently, it was hard to say. Scientists had to wait for the tools of high-powered video analysis and computational modeling. And when these were finally applied to starlings, they revealed patterns known less from biology than cutting-edge physics."1

Dear Calmom,
It probably doesn’t matter how we get from point A to point B.  Most people looking at the situation will agree that at least by 2500A.D., the number of people on the planet will be less.

1).  It is likely that at seven billion we have already well overshot the earth’s long-term carrying capacity.  Any society that uses any non-renewable resource is by definition not sustainable, no matter how it generates energy.  The phosphorous-based fertilizers without which modern high-yield agriculture would be impossible come to mind.  In terms of truly long term sustainable population (i.e., tens or hundreds of thousands of years), any more than one billion humans is probably pushing it.

2).  In the more near term, as resources become more scarce, birth rates can be expected to increase dramatically.

It has been known to scholars for centuries that birth rates are low in wealthy, fell-fed countries and more specifically, among individual families which are healthy and well-fed.  When scarcity or famine raises it’s ugly head, the birth rate increases dramatically.  This phenomenon has been noted long before the advent of effective birth control, or even before a scientific understanding of the significance of the menstrual cycle.

In any event, it is a fact of biological life.

The following is a graphic representation of what the Neo-Malthusians might expect.  Notice the rise in births is coupled with an increase in the mortality, to create a situation more closely approximating what we had pre-19th century: high birth rate coupled with a high death rate.

 

The studies that you cite are misleading if they make their future projections by simply assuming that current trends in living standards and birth rate will continue into the future.  If we factor in increasing resource scarcity, there is every reason to believe that the birth rate will increase.

(Note that I have not researched the graph above, and therefore cannot subscribe to it; I mean it only as an illustration of the well-known principle relating to birth rates.)

I have never been very interested in discussing the Malthusian question, though, because it doesn’t make much difference.  It doesn’t lead to many actions that we can actually take to make things better.

There are some things that nature always will take care of on her own.  This is one of them.

…I have been able to enjoy watching these fractal-manifesting megaflocks of birds.  Our back deck faces out towards a yuge acreage of lightly-wooded open space (a set of high-tension lines come through perhaps 1-1/2 miles from the house, so this open space is where the birds flock/fly [it’s also where a lotta deer hunting goes on {I say "goes" because even though the deer-hunting season was over weeks ago, people are still out there hunting…I imagine some out-of-work machinist putting food on the table, game wardens bedamned}]).  If I sit outside long enough – and it’s been a very warm winter, such that reading a book out there on a Saturday afternoon is often pretty comfy, one of these megaflocks will arise and do their thing. 
Their gyrations and spontaneous dance leaves me in no doubt that there is something beyond human comprehension going on.  I have no particular opinion as to how exactly it works, and for the most part I don’t care.  I’ve seen any number of "magic" things in my perambulations about this orb (the backside of Maui, watching a lone cloud trail rain down on poor ruined Kaho`olawe, the top of the Jungfrau, watching small hawks soar in the brutal frigid vertical gale, near Lake Toba [Sumatra], clambering up a cliff and finding a mango grove growing sideways out of the mountainside, here in the Hud Valley minding a fire till dawn near Giant Ledge and listening to the night speak, out in the middle of 10 acres of tall corn in Iowa as the wind stirs the stalks, etc.):  things that – if one were to stack up one’s rational straightline phenomenal explanations – would laugh at one’s pathetic attempt to subsume the sublime into the banality of our everyday framework;  indeed, things that – near as I can tell – exist primarily to smash our smug, crystalline certainty that we have it all figured out (and under control) into a thousand shining pieces…and to assert to us that while we are fine, fine creatures (and clever as all get-out), the sliver of our true understanding is tiny compared to the deep mystery and Truth of What It Is.

On a good day, maybe we dance with it as it dances.  On an average day, I believe we mostly plod.  But whenever I bump up against this ISness, I take heart.  I don’t have to know why "Jesu Joy of Man’s Desiring" or "Air on a G String" peels back the top of my head and dumps in a brace of smiling, dancing angels;  I just know I feel the lift.  That’s enough.  

And in these terrible and wonderful days, I take my courage from whatever source offers me a ration.

Viva – Sager

thank you for gracing us with your deep thoughts… Post # 2000 is very special. 
I am still reading this sentence, over and over… just rolling it around in my mouth and aspirating air through it, like a swig of great wine… to extract every nuance of flavor and scent.  

"if one were to stack up one’s rational straightline phenomenal explanations – would laugh at one’s pathetic attempt to subsume the sublime into the banality of our everyday framework;  indeed, things that – near as I can tell – exist primarily to smash our smug, crystalline certainty that we have it all figured out (and under control) into a thousand shining pieces…and to assert to us that while we are fine, fine creatures (and clever as all get-out), the sliver of our true understanding is tiny compared to the deep mystery and Truth of What It Is."

There is so very much yet to learn about the quantum nature of our universe… the power of intention, the implications of entanglement, and the jostling sea of (zeropoint) energy hinted at by the Casimir force…  the sliver is indeed tiny.    

 

Woohoo! Glad to see you’ve realized our system isn’t much better than in America… :slight_smile:
And thanks for actually trying to do something about it!
Samuel

I sincerely hope that Mr Dines is wrong when he warns of The Coming Uranium Boom’ - the emphasis being on the word ‘Boom’, of course.

…that was some beautiful chizit you just threw down on your pages. You had me elevated, floating, dancing with ever exhale from the warming breeze that only a sunny spring day gives me from a frigid winters gone. Chills I had. Real nice.Jim H., I have a wall of fame here in my Man cave that is reserved for simple statements that I use as truths for my movements forward. I respect words so I applied yours Saturday to this space, and thank you for the simplicity of them. I place them there so others can read,  internalize, and take what they want from them or to just stay the course myself. An example of another would be TEAM: Together Everyone Achieves More. No ‘I’ in TEAM, that sort of thing.
Jim H. wrote:… "and that lack of integrity with our core can manifest itself in many less than positive ways." Yeah Jim, truth is the center, it must be the core, from there we go wherever we want. Every day a good day. Chins up, unafraid, and respectful that beyond our spacial self others can add little nuggets that gives us just a little more gitty up with our steps moving forward. Everyone has value, adds value. I understand that lack of integrity is also at the core of some, and is why we have Banksters too. I choose truth, and suspect strongly that you do to, that most everyone, if not all here do.
Arthur, you have provided me with some jewels, and should know i enjoy every one of your threads. You say more to me with less words than anyone here. You create visuals that stick with me in ‘aha’ moments when I finally see what you are saying. That to is a gift. Arthur, I get more from a single snap shot (a visual) than a volume of words. You write all you want, and I’ll hear you. If you ever feel as though you get writers remorse don’t I’ll hear you, and appreciate what you say. Just call me a fan.
Every single person here has my respect, and I hear you loud and clear. Absolutely!
Something I wanted to share today because we have discussed starlings, and the scientific research regarding the most amazing flights of these beautiful birds. I have a friend who is legally blind, I mean can’t see a thing. We have been neighbors now for 10 years, and we watch the Super Bowl together most every year. He screams, shouts, gets pissed, and all the things we react to as full 5 sensed human beings. I crack up, amazed and delighted. My point, if it is lost on anyone here is: It is not enough to tell me that our other senses just take over. It has to be deeper than that. The thing is it doesn’t really have to matter, you don’t even have to seek the higher truth if you are as someone stated earlier, "what do I know, I’m just a bird watcher". My friend is a football fan, a baseball fan. Always a radio in his ear while we sit and watch a game together. All he sees is there’s a line shot to left, it gets down, and Kaline (Tiger Hall of Famer, right fielder of the 50’s and 60’s) is now rounding third heading for home, the throw, the tag, and Kaline is safe. Crowd goes nuts, my friend goes nuts, and I am thrilled for my friend, and for myself. Why? Who cares, really…It’s just nice to be a baseball fan… Peace

 Sager, I’m looking for a "like" button, but I don’t see one…
One way for me to releive the stress of worry about a future out of my hands has been gardening.  I lose myself in it and stop worrying about the world’s problems.  

Another one is kayaking.  Adrift in nature, as an observer, not an agent of change…The more I get out and let it soak in, the better I feel about everything.  

There is a world out there that has been in balance for thousands of years, and it would do us good to find our place in it.

Ha…  first time I’ve also heard of Mr Dines and I think it’s CMs best interview.Additional impressed by Chris’ expertice in conducting the interview AND his insights.
I follow some impressive sites but consider this a the top of the list.
Loved the starling recognition… as my wife has always called them… BIRDBALLS.
we’ve always pulled to the side of the road to watch the shared motion and energy of these flocks.
Most people would drive right by, oblivious.  Some people would think about destroying the ball with a shotgun.
Thought to theorize:  where are we?
Bird balls or herds of impala on the African plains or stars in the milky way…where are we, the individual…
Oh, yeah, and who is the leader anyway??? 
 

Coming soon :) 

I just started listening to this podcast but I’m already skeptical. I’m at 12’25" and Mr. Dines has just made the comment that 10 years ago the Golden Gate Bridge toll was $1 and now it’s $6. This is absolute BS. I lived in SF until 2001 and the toll at that time was $3 and had been $3 since 1991. The toll was raised to $5 in 2002 (Ten years ago) and to $6 in 2008. It is still $6. So I hope the data in the rest of the talk is of better quality but if this is the way he starts out he has already lost credibility.
http://goldengatebridge.org/research/GGBTraffToll.php

Always glad to know that something I offer has found a happy home. 
Viva – Sager