Thanks, T2H.
You too.
Is a belief, not a religion. You don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist.
Ah! Very good, We finally have an expert on the deep state who can tell us truth from fiction.
Do share!
Otherwise, that's quite an emotional outburst there (as measured by the emotional content of the words) and I might be tempted to think you are operating from a belief state instead.
So let's have the right story on the table please?
Who is it, exactly, that's constantly seeking to disrupt the Middle east into a fractured stew of ineffective states? There are not that many candidates…but you apparently have the answer, so I'd love to hear it,as I am sure everyone would.
Anyone want to weigh in on the speculation that the missiles launched off the coast of California were Russian?
John G.
Please
Excerpt from website rense.com: http://www.rense.com/general86/zelephant.htm
[quote]The Zionist Elephant In The Room
The David Icke Newsletter
(Admin: Excerpt limit exceeded…).[/quote]
T2H - Chris here. First, there's an excerpt limit we have to impose for copyright issues.
So a snippet and a link is our rule.
Second, I am highly allergic to Rense generally and David Icke specifically because both have proven (to me) over time to make extraordinary incredible, inflammatory and unfounded claims.
I think Hugh has a legitimate point. I'm not Jewish but I perceive a substantial anti-Semitic sentiment to several recent posts here. Maybe I'm not as well versed in the dangers posed by the "Zionists" as some here but I don't think I'm going out on a limb to say that most ordinary Jews just want to live their lives in peace, just like any other population. If there is hard evidence otherwise, I'm open to hearing it.
As to who it is who is seeking to disrupt the Middle East, I say WTF?
According to my history books, that part of the world has been being disrupted by various tribes, cultures, militias and nation-states since the dawn of civilized man, and certainly well before the establishment of the nation of Israel.
Understood.
My point in posting this was not to inflame, but to point to a pattern that I, and others, are seeing in all of this. There are a number of sites out there that discuss this topic, however the majority of them do a very poor job of separating out the two topics (Rothschild banking syndicate/7 countries in 5 years/etc. and the Jewish people). There's so much hate and guilt built up around this particular topic. Hard to know what is wheat and what is chaff.
Frankly I'm at a loss as to how to broach the topic in a way that doesn't come off as inflammatory.
So I'll settle for this:
Is the Rothschild banking syndicate, out of Israel, the apex of a financial pyramid that is driving conflict worldwide for profit and power - with the ultimate goal of consolidating power into a one world government?
Heh-heh.
The 5 second clip that popped into my head when I saw the launch footage was of Putin, calling up the WH just before launch and saying "We're running SLBM test in California now. Don't vorry, it's just dummy warhead" and then hanging up.
Hard to tell, but we may be closer that we think to confrontation.
Navy launches second test missile off Southern California coast (LA Times)
"We do not seek a cold, let alone a hot, war with Russia". Sounds like an official denial.
Your response well intentioned as I'm sure you are is unfortunately typical of the unthinking reflexive response that has been programmed into our body politic, by decades of agenda driven propaganda. Use of the label anti-semetic, is about as useful as the pejorative "Conspiracy theorist" it serves only to trigger an emotional response which shuts down critical thinking, discussion of facts and debate. This is by design. ADL 101
As to your points. T2H was explicit in his first post on this topic as to distinguishing between the agenda of Zionists and the broader classification of Jewish people. It is you that is unwittingly conflating the two even as you draw your distinction by stating the obvious truth that most Jewish people simply want to live in peace.
As to your rejoinder to Chris' implication that there is a group with an agenda to fragment and weaken states in the Mid East. you serve up another simplified strawman argument. Yes of course the Mid East has always been home to disruptions of tribes culture, nation states etc. as has Europe, Africa, Asia etc. you are describing the human condition.
What we are discussing is the devolution of the Post War status quo. Into the emerging world war. This development was architected and declared by the Israeli likudniks, (Clean Break Strategy) during the Clinton Administration and implemented and continues to be implemented via the hegemonic power of the US by the NeoCons. see PNAC. This is the group we are discussing and while they are not all Jewish, they are all Zionists.
The extent that they have been so successful in these serial war crimes without repercussions is a testament to the consolidation of editorial control in the media. It is a simple fact that the vast majority of the MSM is under the executive control of self proclaimed Zionists.
Coincidence? unlikely.
The arguments that Hugh K puts forward, trying to nuance the distinction by framing the deep state as being controlled by more than just "Jews" is also a strawman. Of course the Deep State is not monolithic. the Military industrial component has different, competing as well as overlapping interests as does Big Energy etc. that does not obviate the influence and control component of the Zionists.
Where I differ from T2H on this subject, is that I believe that yours and Hugh k' apologists responses are an unconscious reflexive programmed attempt at politicaly correct censorship. And T2H (in my opinion would ascribe Hugh's statements as intentional misdirection/misrepresentation.
One thing is clear it is impossible to discuss this subject without tripping on those emotional land mines. It takes a bit of work to see how and who laid down those land mines in our collective consciousness but the information is there if you chose to look.
Mememonkey
The article says "The test on Saturday featured the launch of a missile outfitted with a dummy warhead toward the Kwajalein Atoll, a missile test site that’s part of the Marshall Islands in the western Pacific."
I know absolutely nothing about missiles, but I do know that numerous people here in western Colorado saw the Saturday night missile. How does a missile launched off hte coast, and headed further west get seen in western Colorado? Is it that high in the sky that it can be seen here just as well as in so. Cal?
Former Putin aide, founder of Russia Today, found dead at Dupont Circle Hotel (WJLA Washington DC)
[quote]Sources told ABC News the man found dead in the Dupont Circle Hotel is identified as Mikhail Lesin, a long time adviser to Russian President Vladimir Putin…
…It's unknown why Lesin, a multi-millionaire with high-level ties to the Kremlin, would be in Washington.
He's credited with creating 'Russia Today', an English language network backed by the Russian government.
Calling this a 'death investigation' implies no foul play is suspected. But autopsy results should resolve the mystery as to how Lesin died.
Public records show Lesin was a rich man.
[/quote]
[quote]Jason Dell 1 day ago - The problem with the missile test explanation is that the officials say it occurred in the Pacific Test Range which is Northwest of Los Angeles. So why did the object move from South to North as viewed from Los Angeles? I saw it myself, and all the video from Los Angeles clearly shows movement from left to right. All the film footage is facing West towards the ocean, so left to right means South to North. It's impossible for a projectile like a missile to originate in the Northwest and move from the South TO the North. Also, what I saw originated far in the Southwest.[/quote]
[quote]Spartan 1 day ago - This object flew right above my place , I live 50 Miles east of San Francisco.[/quote]
[quote]TRUTH HAS NO AGENDA 2 days ago - I was there saw the whole thing while walking my dogs at sunset cliffs san diego - it came up from BELOW the horizon lighting up the ocean long before we actually saw anything (it was that far out to sea) then it looked like lights from an aircraft. once it reached the zenith of the sky it stopped and created a HUGE halo of light with a green light at the center. and then over 20 minutes it all faded away. It all acted like a very expensive flare.[/quote]
[quote]Johnny Gonzalez 15 hours ago - Trident II Nukes do not spur a blue flare. It would have left a huge vapor and smoke trail. I've seen trident tests before. go ahead and look at trident 2 videos and judge... Object seen over 500+ miles away is too big for a FCM like the trident 2.[/quote]
So....incoming from south/southwest to north/northeast. What color does Trident II fuel burn?
Mystery light over ocean was missile test (San Diego Union Tribune)
[quote]"The test was part of a scheduled, on-going system evaluation test, said Cmdr. Ryan Perry with the Navy’s Third Fleet.
The missile was not armed and Strategic Systems Programs does not routinely announce missile testing. Information regarding the test launch of such missiles is classified prior to the launch, Perry said.
The test range is a massive area northwest of Los Angeles. The Navy periodically uses the range to test fire Tomahawk and Standard cruise from surface ships and submarines."
"Some people saw it fade from bright red to white or blue, and thought it traveled from south to north."[/quote]
Photo of exhaust plume from 4th Street Bridge over the 110 Freeway in Los Angeles.
Picture of same location and orientation from Google Earth.
This section of freeway is heading almost perfectly southwest, so the plume above appears to originate south of this location, and appears to be heading left-to-right, roughly south to north.
Hi Chris and all,
First of all, you’re right that my post that you cited above was both emotionally charged and not supported by evidence and I owe PP and T2H an apology for that. Sorry to all; that wasn’t productive of me and I’ll try not to do that in the future. I was still testy, I guess, after having been called a disinformation agent by the poster in question, as well as the blurred line here recently regarding holding the government of Israel accountable vs. making assumptions about people based on the fact that they're Jewish by some posters (not T2H), but that’s no excuse for my response, and I'm sorry.
I agree with the principle that we should provide evidence for the theories and opinions we share here and also that we should try to minimize the emotional charge of our posts, and in a moment of weakness I did not remain consistent to those principles.
It would be more consistent if you also took the time to step in when others make such emotional and belief-based statements, such as when T2H accused PP community members of being disinformation agents and/or trolls last week, but in those cases you either lent him explicit support or were aware of his unbacked, belief based ad hom’s and decided to let them slide by without addressing them.
Do you care to explain why you chose to single out my comment above when you have not said anything about many others that meet similar criteria, including these examples?
Cheers,
Hugh
Ask yourself, why would millions of men (the overwhelming majority are young men) suddenly and collectively decide to leave their families behind, leave their country, travel thousands of miles and head for either Germany, Austria or Sweden, ignoring all the other safe countries on the way? Who told them that this would be worth it? Where did they all get the money to pay for it? Why was there absolutely no effort at any border to stop them? Why did this not start earlier? After all, the middle east has been a war zone for years—ever since the USA exploited 9/11 to start “spreading democracy.” How could this happen within days, weeks at most. Did the first hundred thousand send a message to the rest that it was OK for them to come too? If so, how?
I’m Jewish. I’m not religious. I’m 32. I was born in Canada and have always lived in Canada. I don’t believe I’m smarter than anyone here.
Intro: The reason I’m a member on this site is to get a better understanding of the world and make changes to my life that I feel are important and make practical sense with everything going on around me. Most people don’t want to change and don’t want to face reality…it’s difficult.
Beliefs: I went to Israel 11 years ago on a free trip for being a Jew. I saw a beautiful country (Negev, Masada, Dead Sea, Jerusalem, Red Sea, Sea of Galilee, etc). It was filled with all different people like anywhere else in the world. I saw a country that has an enormous amount of history and much like other places, is being destroyed in all sorts of ways. People who live there are forced to join the army at 18 and have to serve at least 4 years. My experience was similar to this. At times I felt influenced to be more involved in the religion and take part in the traditions, but it has never appealed to me. Growing up, my family celebrated the holidays and I went to Hebrew school once a week from a young age until I had my Bar Mitzvah at 13. As a family we got together with our extended family during high holidays, but that was it. We stopped going to synagogue. My mom died 6 years ago and about 4 years before she died, she started having an attachment to Israel and Judaism. She had a friend that she wrote with who was a Holocaust survivor, who was a big inspiration to her. She never hated anyone, in fact, she would frequently say that hate is such a strong word…the Germans hated the Jews during the Second WW. I think she also saw Israel in the same way, a historic country with lots of beauty that is being destroyed. I don’t believe Israel is the only victim, but I also don’t believe fingers should be pointed at it and that it should be a target. My belief is that there are Jews who want to protect the country and do hold hatred towards other groups. My belief is also that there are other ethnoreligious groups who hold hatred towards Jews and other groups of people. I want to protect the country and all the others around it. In fact, I’m contemplating taking a trip to the Middle East to get a better understanding. I met a Kuwaiti on my travels in August. She was lovely. Down to earth, educated, outgoing, adventurous and many other great qualities. How could I possibly put her into a larger set of people and call her bad and hold negative feelings towards her. We are both friends now and she also doesn’t hold hatred towards me just because I’m Jewish or because I say Israel is a great country. I know that there are a lot of Jewish people who are afraid of history repeating and I think that's a big reason why some are very passionate about their people. Genocide is not something I support. War is not something I support.
Someone who is religious and gets very defensive when it comes to Israel showed me this video. My response was “what do you want me to do about it? There’s bad people everywhere”. While his emphasis was on Palestinians, mine was on the violent person.
I’m tired of all these generalizations and labels. I’m interested in sorting out where this all comes from. I’m interested in constructive criticism. Chris and Adam know from building this site, writing books and traveling to spread the word about the 3 E’s how difficult it is to have people change. I think blaming the Israeli people, or the people in the US, or Canada, or Russia is not the right approach. I think that’s the easy way out and somewhat cowardly. To point fingers at a broad group or country does not solve anything. I don't see any difference in that and being racist. It’s getting an understanding for an individual and carefully giving a different perspective so the change is beneficial to the world. It isn't about pushing that person in a direction. It's about offering your outlook and letting them change for themselves. It's about leading by example. I don't have patience for people who are violent and mean. Maybe it's because I haven't been living the same lives as others. I haven't been deprived. I wasn't raised to hate a certain type of person. I wasn't abused as a child. I wasn't raped. I guess we are who we are through our experiences. With all the things humans have accomplished, it's astounding to me we aren't further along in the simple way of relationships and communication. Why bother with the rest if we can't resolve things and work together peacefully. It's pathetic and it's where I become despondent and discouraged. I'm not hopeful in a calm and constructive outcome. It will be destructive and degenerative, but I believe the answer is not pointing the finger at a group or country. It's focusing on the individual and treating them differently than the next.
It sounds like the conclusion is the deep state equals Zionists, who may or may not be Jewish and Israel is the headquarters of the elite. Maybe that’s true and I’m open minded enough to hear more from this community and be directed to reading materials to further my education. I’d again like to point out that regardless if that’s true or not, the 75% Jews and 20% Arabs who live there are not all bad and certainly the trees, deserts, wildlife, lakes, rivers, mountains, and ancient structures are not bad. And no, this isn’t a strawman or anything else. It’s simply my beliefs that were formed from my experiences. I’m open to hearing how they are flawed.
Anyone who has worked in market leading companies knows usually the incentives are to build up the CEO. Given this the corollary is CYA since all employees want the CEO's shine. What results? We need no conspiracies, only psychopaths. Then all else we bitch about follows.