He arranged his crucifixion. When you go against the deadly power, and attack its income, it's coming after you. He wasn't stupid. However, He knew what was required of him.
It isn't like he hid it, saying repeatedly things like, "I have a baptism I must go through, and how I wish it were over", telling Peter and John "The Son of Man must be crucified…", telling James and John "You wish to be at my right and left when I come into my glory? Can you go through the baptism with which I must be baptised? … You shall. But it is not for me to determine who is at my right and left when I sit on my throne in Glory (that is, the cross), but for those for whom it is determined (the two thieves at his right and left)." Or again, his discussion with Moses and Elijah about his coming crucifixion on the mount of transfiguration.
Yes, he knew what he was doing. He had a bigger job than overturning a social structure. He had to absorb the worst of the worst of our iniquities, and then bring good out of it. Other than that, he could not claim to save anyone from their sins,since sin by its nature grows.
David,
Since you mentioned your experience with children - did you kids ever lie when they were little? Was that taught or was it a natural thing? If you think it was taught, who taught them? And how do we know it's wrong?
I think the irony of Jesus clearing the Temple on a silver bar is … exquisite.
That said, I think it would be great to make every silver bar have a different bible story. Some people would collect them as collectables. Then too, surely it qualifies as artwork (relief sculpture?). It would be useful in event of PMs being made illegal.
I am constantly amused by the cavalier manner in which Christianity is described - without shock or objection. In this case my religious beliefs are described as "bloodthirsty" and silence follows.
No matter. I am confirmed in my beliefs by the onslaught of attacks from all sides. The enemy attacks what is real. Thank you David.
Funny thing: though I don’t agree that Christianity is bloodthirsty, I do agree that it can be viewed that way, and I actually fairly closely agree with DP’s dates.
I think his interpretation of triggering events may also be related.
325 is also very close to the dates that Mithraism went underground, according to the story of the martyrdom of Bishop Georgius of Cappadocia.
But even before that, I think that nobody can argue against the point that the Roman Empire the populace had devolved into two bloodthirsty crowds (today we’d call them red/blue) each with their own favorite sports (gladiator) teams. One of those two crowds was nominally the Christians. Definitely, something had changed.
I think it may have been that acceptance as a valid religion in the empire allowed those who were not really Christian to take up the mannerisms of Christianity without having to worry about the costs.
But I don’t disagree that there was a change. And I don’t disagree that a lot of the behavior at the time could properly be called “bloodthirsty”.
That said, I never attributed the bloodthirsty bit to Christianity; rather, I attributed it to nonChristians playing at Christianity, or sometimes to confusion among those who were attempting Christianity without a lot of guidance.
But honestly, that’s my attribution; I don’t know the full details.
And once you have Mithraism go underground, the rest gets even dicier… because that religion WAS bloodthirsty. So a Mithraist masquerading as a Christian can do a lot of historical damage.
There is a balance between not working at all and don’t work, don’t eat. There are too many children, sick, and elderly in any society that can’t work for their keep and for Ron Paul to coldly say that is just too bad for those who can’t afford health care is too far of an extreme. One the other hand, doing nothing and taking advantage of others is not an extreme to justify either. I prefer to think in shades of grey instead of just black and white. “Work that their MASTERS had told them to do” tells you a lot who the religion was geared for, the slave class. But that’s okay with me because those were the very poor he was hoping to give hope to and the lesson that money isn’t where happiness and true fulfillment is found.
The generations living to have consumed about half of the planet’s resources leaving about a ¼ for future generations (talk about entitlement). The younger generation would prefer an alternative energy future for $4.5 trillion that produces over 900,000 local jobs in every community. Whereas the older generation seems to prefer staying addicted to fossil fuels for $14 trillion for far less jobs in remote areas that are going to be replaced by automation anyway. Considering the circumstances, I think that the younger generation is showing much more stewardship for the creation than the older generation. If the older generation disregards the limits of our planet and sends the younger generation off to fight yet another war over fossil fuels or another bloody Crusade for a pacifist, there won’t be a living planet left to steward.
When I first moved to British Columbia in 2012 our family bill was $128/month for basic health care. Four years later it’s $150, so an increase of $5.50 a year. I know that US problem is deeper going back to the 1970 when Nixon first devised our present day system with corporate death panels. (As they try pass the blame with the idea of the “government death panel.”)
It’s the billionaires who can’t ever get enough that are to blame. But they get away with it by continuously pitting the middle and lower classes against each other like George Carlin explains here.
To me it’s not an issue of socialism vs capitalists either. It’s about what is most practical for the situation. Government tends to work better for things like roads, schools, and healthcare, but the private sector usually best serves the rest. I didn’t invent the culture wars that divided so many things into black and white religious issues, Nixon did. I’m trying to find the best balanced based upon the rational results.
The Sabbath Economics that Jesus taught says the same thing. “There is great abundance if we only take what we need.” If a few people weren’t hoarding all of the resources for themselves, society as a whole would be better off.
When coined money was first established in Bronze Age Turkey it greatly boosted trade because it was so much easier than barter. But it also created the new job speculator who made money off of trading money. Overtime the monetary wealth concentrated into too few hands and the economy collapsed leaving many in slavery.
To fix the problem Solon freed the slaves and canceled all debts. To even outlawed “hubris” so that aristocrats would not be allowed to intimidate and humiliate the newly freed slaves.
I could spend a whole evening listing out and describing Christianity's history of Crusades, Inquisitions, and witch hunts. I don't have that much time right now so have just have to reference a Wikipedia link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_violence
When one reads the stories about Jesus, it abundantly clear that he was a pacifist. I prefer to seek what Jesus really taught to help make thing "on earth, as they are in heaven" and teach my children same.
My kids lied a lot less than my parents lied to me, starting with Santa Claus (talk about a materialistic twist). Children are hardwired to copy what their parents do, not say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=falHoOEUFz0
But I was raised in a “do as I say and not as I do” culture, which is the heart of the problem. If I made a truthful observation about an obvious double standard I got slapped in the face and beaten with a belt. I essentially had a lot of truth beaten out of me.
When I got an environmental science degree and tried to tell my folks that humans were killing half the species on the planet, they told me the scientists were exaggerating. When every country in the world was willing to sign on to the Kyoto Protocols, except for the United States, I tried presenting them a graph showing how America can achieve energy independence for ⅓ the cost as staying addicted to fossil fuel and create 10x as many jobs. My explanation was interrupted 10 seconds in telling me they didn’t have time to listen to me, but they did have time to degrade me for 30 minutes.
Now that extinction rate is more like 90%, but they still don’t care. They don’t care that they were misled into Iraq that murdered a million people. They don’t care that alternative energy is cheaper because the fossil fuels offer more profits. They don’t care that they are leaving future generations a dead planet because their religion excuses them of that responsibility. And after the mess the Iraq War has led us into, they still don’t care if their grandchildren are forced to fight in further wars that destroy their very future, when they could have a much better alternative energy future for a cheaper price.
So I am left with a tough choice, to honor the older generation that got humanity into this mess because they refused to listen to any reason whatsoever, or honor the younger generation and try to do everything I can to leave them a planet worth living on.
I taught my kids to reason like scientists. I would encourage them to observe and reflect upon the world around them. I encouraged them to ask questions and to understand the reasoning behind the rules, instead of just slapping them across the face for exposing a truth I didn’t want exposed. Instead of trying to condition them what to think, I tried to teach them how to think so that they could determine truth for themselves.
"I taught my kids to reason like scientists. I would encourage them to observe and reflect upon the world around them. I encouraged them to ask questions and to understand the reasoning behind the rules, instead of just slapping them across the face for exposing a truth I didn’t want exposed. Instead of trying to condition them what to think, I tried to teach them how to think so that they could determine truth for themselves."
To reflect on this thread is not only entertaining, but highlights quite vividly Mr. Robinson's observation on Pasca-lian logic. Once one determines the truth, what are you gonna' do with it? Mr. Erasmus and Mr. Luther went toe to toe on the subject with the decision going to Mr. Luther (in my opinion). Is it, "Thy will be done", or my will be done? Maybe its something to ponder as you "re-gift" last year's ostentatious expression filial love in response to the "Holiday Season" morass of consumerism. I'm looking forward to the cinnamon buns my wife just pulled out of the oven for Sunday morning to be shared with friends and family in celebration of the day. Again, Merry Christmas.
Quite simply, when you allow a racketeering healthcare system, while also socializing it, you squeeze the laborers (slave class) between things like paying for their own access to that healthcare they’re paying for everyone to have, and paying their electric bill. But when they don’t pay the electric bill, the electric racketeering company cuts them off, and then notifies the city to condemn the house, driving the owner or renter out.
That doesn’t work very well either.
“Rent”, assurances of income to some, results in poverty and slavery of others.
Ron Paul’s solution is to automatically provide nothing to anybody… but that still allows for charity.
Part of the problem in my own church is that the bishops see how ineffective charity can be in results, and therefore want to push for the government to take it on: but true complex justice cannot deny justice OR charity. The bishops don’t see that. Thus they lose their own positionsn in a sociological position.