Thank you for your feedback and the reference to Cognitive Dissonance Theory (Leon Festinger), one of my pet theories. However, you seem to be unable to discern the difference between buying a home to put a roof over your head at a fixed price that will not change for 30 years for your family security, and buying a whole lot of homes that you can flip for profit or rent out for ever increasing income, all that with tax breaks similar to those of the former. By that perspective, every bird that builds a nest or bear that finds a tree to den in is a capitalist. I can see that the conversation needs to end here given that you think you have a god on your side which causes you no cognitive dissonance. No sense in arguing with a true believer. Yes, I confess to being a capitalist otherwise to some extent. But it is a problem leading to income and wealth inequality for many, and I wish our society cultivated more means for providing stable food, shelter and healthcare for all while providing incentives to everyone to contribute more to society as a whole once these basic needs are met. The technologies some of us are involved in may enable that in the future. Have a happy and safe new year to you and your family.
Skimming this thread, a passing thought:
Faith in economic or even legal “fairness” circa 2020 is broken beyond recovery. It’s not coming back because we are no longer one people. So let it go. The belief we share a consensus of values today is simply false. Thus, anyone making a moral claim is always going to be assumed to be pushing a self-serving agenda or to be a hypocrite, and will have zero persuasive power.
This is as expected. Globalization, massive immigration, the decline of religion/family, and most of all our below-replacement birth rates over the last 50 years created an “every man for himself” culture. This is especially evident in age-related medical issues (like Covid, but for health in general) which in the past were supported by close family but is now pretty much institutionalized (as close family is absent).
This is just reality. We are long past peak cultural capital, long past peak family. The logical response seems obvious to me: invest in one’s own family/immediate community, and expect no fairness or security from law or society. This ain’t 1950 anymore. Basically, expect our institutions (hospitals, law, schools, government) to look a lot more like Mexico’s than say Germany’s as time passes. This is the price one pays for lacking a common culture and values. YMMV.
Perfect one-liner
The Colonies were founded on the principle of commonwealth which was everyone rises up together, they were every original one a joint corporate charter colony in partnership with a religious body, New York excluded. The principles of shared common were all but erased by the revolution and subsequent civil war, but survived in the religious community.
Similarly for example the Quakers began their first years in the US as slave owners and still have guilt trips about it being the first and primary abolitionist movement. The US is replete with self made men leaving charitable legacies. In historical terms capitalists are the greatest charitable givers, and if they have not been of late, perhaps you should look at the nature of what is trying to enforce communization of wealth to a minority of elites through the party apparatchiks over commenting on someones dilemmas on making wealth through a business even if it is rental. Its still theirs, the problem lies Corporate Government, not private enterprise.
”Its still theirs, the problem lies Corporate Government, not private enterprise.”
Really, are you sure?
Perhaps there is an alternative viewpoint to ownership. The indigenous peoples’ probably looked at western man and found their obsession with ownership incomprehensible. After all how could a person own the sun, the sky, the butterflies or the prairies? If we were wise we would see ourselves as Stewards of the planet as we are but temporary visitors. Instead we are narcissistic conquers obsessed with possessions, money and power.
There is a saying - “you can never get enough of what you don’t need”! How many species have paid with their lives so we can acquire what we don’t need?
Just a thought.
AKGrannyWGrit
You like to speak in sweeping generalizations. Just who is this “we” who should be wise and see ourselves as stewards of the planet?
In your and Steve’s universe man is evil and uses capitalism to destroy the planet. That is not my universe. That is not my planet. Why is capitalism mutually exclusive for caring from the planet in your world?
I am a capitalist, Chris martenson is a capitalist, Adam Taggart is a capitalist, this site is capitalist. By your logic no one here is capable of caring for the planet.
How have you earned a living? You live in Alaska. You have gotten as has every resident a cash payment from oil royalties. Feeling guilty? Are you putting that back into caring for the planet? Personally I don’t care. I do what I do and owe no one an explanation.
You like utilitarianism? Who is the majority and who decides who or what is the Majority? You cannot enforce compassion. You cannot force an environmental ethics. You cannot force the people to stop being fruit flies and multiplying. You can’t force your ideals on anyone else. Love and coercion are oil and water.
Happy holidays.
So PP is purely a capitalist site. It now makes sense. From what I’ve seen, PP is 99% money money money with a little ecology sprinkled in to appear balanced. Capitalism will care for this planet ONLY if it maximizes profits. Unfortunately the destruction of this planet is the most profitable. Those shareholders must be well fed or they will sue the pants off of a company. Isn’t fat cat socialism wonderful?
The natural ecosystem is reality and will collapse when stressed beyond the point of no return, which we are already well past. Mental constructs like money, capitalism, communism, economy, value, ownership, country, borders, etc are nothing more than that and can be changed at any time. So it’s our choice, keep chasing that imaginary butterfly with dollar sign wings or get real. Unfortunately most people I see on the public transit system are living day to day and have no time to think about these bigger issues. It’s obey the destructive rules of the system or perish.
Actually capitalism is NOT destroying the planet. The dominant species IS.
Hormones rule the universe.
This is why Bill Gates is a Eugenicist and his father before him, as well as the Rockefellers.
Plant trees, don’t have kids
In addition to being a proud capitalist I also run my home off of solar. Not only is it good for the environment, it makes financial sense for me. How many of these “environmentalists” have had themselves sterilized and given up all modern technology to go live as one with nature in the woods. The people who break into others hunting cabins to survive do not count as living as one with nature! You might as well give up all modern medicine too. Let me know how that works for you in a year or so.
Personally I think this guy is the exact opposite of what I thought PP stands for. 8 forms of capital and this guy talks about getting RICH. Even worse: “when the stockmarket goes up, I get rich. When the stockmarket goes down I get rich”. O my god what a bunch of horseshit. “When you educate yourself you get rich, otherwise you get poor”. Am I listening to an adult man or a 17-year-old who tells me he has a system to break the casino?
That is the same crap I heard in the 90’s when everybody was soooooo smart and got rich in the housing market and in Nasdaq-stocks. This guy wrote a book that made him millions because it resonates with peoples dreams of free money and getting rich. That’s it. Nothing more. We are talking about people who lost their jobs and livelyhoods and he is talking about Steve Jobs. Yeah, Jobs was really an average guy. “Getting educated”, means “keep buying my book and keep inviting me for high-paying presentations”.
We are on the verge of a collapsing society. I don’t want to get poor, but believe me, I also do not want to get rich! No, I don’t WANT to get rich. What I want is to build 8 forms of capital in order to live the good live. I have modest wishes. I want a good familylife. I want to live together with good neighbours. I want to live in a safe area. I want to cook good food every day and go to a restaurant every now and then. I don’t want a yacht. I don’t want far, exotic destinations for vacations.
We live in an average suburban-, but debt free house, and I have some savings in PMs. I do not have much euro savings left since I bought a little piece of land (750 sq meters) for 12.500 euro. Where I live, that IS being rich, where it used to be middle class. This is how far we came. Just by working, living within your means and save money.
What happens when you loose everything, he warned? I am going to grow fruit, herbs and vegetables on that little piece of land and I will share it with my family, friends and neighbours. Just for free. Sharing builds a community. Not getting rich! I hope that one day, when I am too old to do hard work on the land, I will get some help. That is my “investment” for the future.
I hear these kind of messages more often on PP lately. Mike Malony telling he bought a farm. What? Or Chris telling he got delivery of silver in a truck! What? Don’t get me wrong, it is not envy. I am not jealous, but how many people can indentify him/herself with that? PP is for me a guide through these rough times. The knowlegde Chris shared with us about Covid is really priceless and I thank him for that. But sometimes, when the subject is financial capital, I sometimes wonder if this is only meant for millionaires. The kind of investing that mr. Kiyosaki is talking about, is what investors do while demanding profit maximization, in an exponential way in a finite world. This is exactly the oposite of the PP I know.
[embed]https://youtu.be/yyXIOBIOTCE[/embed]
Paranoid thought: did Boulton let the cat out of the bag?
Steve said, “But it is a problem leading to income and wealth inequality for many, and I wish our society cultivated more means for providing stable food, shelter and healthcare for all while providing incentives to everyone to contribute more to society as a whole once these basic needs are met. “
It is NOT the responsibility of our society to provide these thing beyond what already happens. Actually I think welfare benefits are actually too much at this point. No welfare should pay more than a normal working class job. It is all about equality, equal opportunity NOT equity, equal outcome. Forced distribution is in no way fair to the people who work hard and destroys initiative and creativity. Why should I bust my butt for someone else? I work hard for the benefit of my family and myself. That is not to say that I do nothing for my society as a whole, I do but it is on MY terms. Forcing people to support others with their labors will just cause piss poor work ethic all around. I started from nothing and earned everything I have I will not allow it to be stripped from me without a fight. I sacrificed so my kids wouldn’t have to. Redistribute my wealth? I don’t frickin think so…
This discussion has become unnecessarily acrimonious. I am not sure what people mean when they say they are capitalists.
If bailing out the so-called “Too big to fail” corporations like the big banks and AIG (insurance) during the GFC is not an example of socialism rather than capitalism, then I don’t know what is. The Capitalism that existed in the 19th century has evolved to such an extent that it is hard to know what is meant by the term today.
Economists and financial journalists often talk about free markets. Where are they? We live in a highly regulated world today which seems to favour very large businesses such as multinational corporations. They lobby governments for special concessions, grants and new regulations because the latter so often act as a barrier to entry.
The discussion would be more useful if it was not so binary or polarized. Being a capitalist no longer means that you have to run rough shod over everyone else to prove that you are not a socialist. Equally, you can still have left of centre ideals and run a business along capitalist lines. We are talking about the messy middle.
Mohammed has very useful things to say, so has Steve and Granny is trying to keep the peace! It really does help to keep aggression and sarcasm out of the comments.