Right, so - not something I’d say in polite company - say, with my mom present.
I suspect our ladies are being trolled by the usual suspects, for the usual reasons. Crapper, Nairobi - quite possibly the same person. Certainly the same behavior. What do they call it - hoovering?
Ok. I’m at my energy budget limit for these gentlemen. Where’s that “ignore” button anyway? Troll tag would be nice too.
and like you, I too have paid that price. But I hold my head high and will not compromise my integrity for any price, especially when it comes to fostering human rights, inclusion and equality.
I had the thought that we need to achieve herd immunity in social attitudes in much the same way as we need to for Covid-19… an anti-discrimination vaccine would be even better! If ever I could get on board with a mandatory vaccine then that would be it!
Thanks for the support Sparky! Time to go visit with my dad - some of his ashes are spread under his favourite tree in the park after he died in January. Not covid related, but close call, since the long term care facility he was in has a serious breakout with many deaths. We are so thankful dad, and the family did not have to endure that.
Jan
My concern with this debate is that out in the real world we are already seeing a war on free speech ala the so-called cancel culture whereby people are getting fired from their jobs because they, or even their spouses, have posted things on social media that go against SJW orthodoxy.
Jan said,
It is up to all of us, men and women alike, to not be bystanders in our lives to any kind of sexist, misogynistic, demeaning, racist or hate related speech, comments and behaviours. When we stay silent we are complicit, and inadvertently or not, in not speaking up we signal that we are condoning the speech or behaviour in question. We talk about taking action to make this world a better place. Well there is one simple action we can take that does not cost a thing. We can each refuse to be bystanders and instead be allies who speak up when we witness transgressions, and do our best to educate & create awareness. We can refuse to accept archaic attitudes and stop the cycle of men growing up thinking things like this are okay because boys will be boys. It is so not okay. Who is in? Who will pledge, silently, to yourself, or out loud to others, via comments or not, to being an ally? Who is willing to say I will not be a bystander anymore?Here is the latest example of a person, purported to be a professor of color at Berkeley, who felt they had to present their nuanced view of BLM anonymously or face retribution.. turns out they were correct; https://jonathanturley.org/2020/06/16/berkeley-condemns-letter-on-blm-sent-by-anonymous-history-professor-that-called-for-free-speech-and-academic-freedom/ So where is the line? I am an ardent anti-racist and I practice this in my daily life. If I hear someone at my workplace say a racist joke should I try to get them fired for doing so? Should I find their social media and bring on the army to mock them and destroy them in every way possible? Where do we then draw the line between piling on someone who is openly racist versus doxxing and attaching someone (like me, for instance) who cares about Black lives but has a more nuanced view and doesn't want to give money to an organization that is openly Marxist? In some circles I would be deemed an outright racist just for not supporting the organization BLM. Is this what people here want? To me, what Jan is saying sounds good, but I have a much larger fear that freedom of speech is under attack and we are going to be the architects of our own demise by adopting our own version of cancel culture. Here's how I see it; - Posters have a right to post offensive things, but.... - Adam owns the site and can moderate anything he deems in needing of moderation. - Everyone has a right to make their own attempts to moderate speakers they deem offensive (Sparky, Jan) - I have a right to make fun of attempts to be junior moderators in training. I am not making fun of Jan in this post.. not at all - I respect Jan and I am trying to stimulate a dialogue. - freedom of speech is what allows us to have this conversation.
If I hear someone at my workplace say a racist joke should I try to get them fired for doing so? Should I find their social media and bring on the army to mock them and destroy them in every way possible?...What you do is you discretely speak to them 1-1 to try to educate them and create awareness. That is all you can do. Either they will get on board or they will not. Just like I did with my post. I did not call for them to be banned. I just told them how offensive it is. What they do with that is up to them. What am I supposed to do Jim, not push back on blatantly sexist shit? Of course they can post their crap, but you can be sure if I see it I will rip into them every time! I am going to venture say you have never experienced sexual harassment, abuse or rape. I will further posit that you have absolutely no idea what it is like to be on the receiving end of those things, therefore you cannot possibly relate to the harms and degradation experienced, how it impacts long term mental and emotional health, which also means you cannot possibly relate to how these things are so offensive. I respect you too Jim, but I am sorry, you are way off base in this one. Would you show that to your wife? Your daughters? How would you like if if the picture were of your wife? Your daughter? Or maybe the guy is your son... is that okay with you, being out there for all the world to see? I am not so naive to think we can eradicate discrimination in all the various forms it takes. Nor do I think we can ever do much about the millions of men whose brains are between their legs. But right here, right now, I can do something. I can tell them what they have said and done is NOT OKAY here, and encourage others to do the same. And if enough people on this site do the same, then this will continue to be a place of respectful civility. Those who care about such things will speak up. When speaking up does not work, whether here or elsewhere, there is social shunning and ostrcization, and of course the courts to deal with the worst offenders. I repeat again, 'all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing'. To tolerate this, which is evil because it is harmful, is to be on the slippery slope to even greater transgressions. I like to think that any man of respect and who holds integrity as a core value will see this for what it is and cast his vote accordingly. Now I am going to visit dad... Jan
Ah, yes, Jim. I do recall that little ding you threw my way on another thread. I will respond and clear up any misunderstandings given your (once again) inaccurate assessment of my comments and intent. But not today as perhaps both you and I have better things to do on this lovely Father’s Day.
Happy Father’s Day! 
Jan said,
I will further posit that you have absolutely no idea what it is like to be on the receiving end of those things, therefore you cannot possibly relate to the harms and degradation experienced, how it impacts long term mental and emotional health, which also means you cannot possibly relate to how these things are so offensive. I respect you too Jim, but I am sorry, you are way off base in this one. Would you show that to your wife? Your daughters? How would you like if if the picture were of your wife? Your daughter? Or maybe the guy is your son... is that okay with you, being out there for all the world to see?Yes, it's OK for this to be out there because the alternative world, where all speech that anyone deems offensive it taken away, is unthinkable. I ask again, where is the line? I purposely didn't state any opinion regarding the post that you deemed offensive, but now for not doing so I am berated. This is EXACTLY how cancel culture works. I am much more concerned about losing free speech through the kind of gradualism you are advocating for vs. how it affects peoples feelings. The way I read your post Jan, I should advocate for incremental loss of free speech in order to protect my kids. I see it completely the opposite, and I ask you to practice the old, "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me" mantra. I'm in the US, not Canada. Canada is already a goner. I will die in a civil war before my kids lose their 1st Amendment rights, that I pledge. The US is literally the last stand for the right of free speech. edit: I should add that I am ardently anti-sexist as well. For most of our careers my wife made more than I did, and I was proud of her for her achievements. My daughter is incredibly high powered, won a prestigious national competition in the field of her MBA with a team of women from her program, and won a competitive fellowship position in her field upon graduation. Does she sound like she was held back by sexism, on the part of society, or her parents? No way. Best of all none of the Marxist indoctrination she received at university stuck... so yeah, it's a great Father's day for me. Best to you as well Sparky.
Dontknownothin’s image has been removed, as it indeed falls afoul of our “inappropriate” content rule.
Sorry I didn’t catch it sooner, but I was out spending hours with the wood chipper until now. I’m heading back outside again to enjoy the rest of my Father’s Day. I hope everyone else is doing the same.
As a female I am really bother by people who say they speak for all of us. You don’t. When I encounter a guy that is crude I tend to insult his manhood and move on. No need to make a federal case of it. My mother taught me to fight my own battles.
If you think this is about hurting people’s feelings you so, so do not get it… how sad.
Happy Father’s day both.
Hmmm.… I re-read WCJan's posts. She said,
"...the comment that I and other women find to be offensive...." (Source)Mysterymet, you said,
"As a female I am really bother by people who say they speak for all of us." (Source)I didn't see where WCJan said she speaks for "all" women on this issue, only that she and "other" women found the comment to be offensive, which I believe is an accurate statement.
Then she should have said some other women or some women. The term “other women“ can be taken as either some other women or all other women.
There are lots of gems here worthy of further commentary. But in the interest of having a peaceful evening honouring all dad’s, past, current and future, I shall wait, and ponder my response.
I had a lovely visit with my dad under his favourite tree. He would have sooo loved these discussions. We had great debates! I miss him so much. He was my mentor, my rock, and my go to person. He taught me that it is the simple things than matter the most. Things like being able to just enjoy the birds, which is especially precious to me since I never heard one sing until I was 37 and got my cochlear implant… soooo very precious to me now!
Good will to all and the conversation will continue tomorrow. It is a good dialogue, a needed dialogue, ripe with opportunity for personal growth for all of us.
Stay well everyone.
Jan
What is this about achieving herd immunity in social attitudes? So everyone should think like you and have the “correct” social values you prefer. From one woman to another, stop being so high and mighty self-righteous. Just go to your fainting couch. Victim much? My blood runs cold when you talk about “allies” because these are people who play the intersectionality game and destroy people’s lives in the process. It’s junior high bullying except it’s serious. I missed the comments that brought forth your Drama but I suggest you just ignore things that upset you. That’s the adult way.
My blood runs cold when you talk about “allies” because these are people who play the intersectionality game and destroy people’s lives in the process.Please provide data for this assertion and expand on your thought with facts so that it can be understood and debated intellectually. You don't get to fling mud at me and not expect to be challenged... Let's go girl! What have you got to bring to the table in lived experience on human rights, inequality, discrimination, and all the attitudes that perpetuate those things? What is your experience with any of it, other than offering an unsubstantiated opinion that reeks of your sensibilities being offended? Please enlighten me so I can humbly learn from your vaunted opinion. I will be happy to engage with you and debate with you ferociously if you are able to mount a credible argument. The ball is in your court.
Let’s remember we’re all in this together. As the song says: Every single one of us could use some mercy now
sofistek - you are quite right in your observation about Asians. I looked at the ‘Median Value of Assets for Households’ chart again and can see that Asians had far and away the highest asset holdings than any other ethnic group, in every column including Net Worth, Stocks & Mutual Fund Shares etc. The chart before that (Share of Households with Stock Ownership) only shows Blacks and Whites, but not Asians which would be interesting - but I did notice there was an even greater disparity between Whites and Blacks stock ownership in the 1990’s. These charts are from 2016, but if the information in the ‘Median Value of Assets’ chart holds today in 2020, then I am not convinced that there is an inherently racist element to the Fed’s actions which is preferential to Whites.
Thanks, Jim. I hope your Father’s Day was nice.
Perhaps you were gifted a new red and black plaid jacket to replace your well-worn 1978 model. 
https://youtu.be/iSyHFk4PB9s
That graphic of “Global Deaths Due to Various Causes and Covid-2019” really puts the rapid rise in Covid-19 deaths into perspective, from obscurity as of 1/1/20 to become the top cause of death worldwide by 5/31/20.
Great find eek, thanks!
You posted this above.
“I’m in the US, not Canada. Canada is already a goner. I will die in a civil war before my kids lose their 1st Amendment rights, that I pledge. The US is literally the last stand for the right of free speech.”
The subpreme court recently ruled that churches can not hold services because of SC2. So the first amendment which states congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion is gone. The right to peaceably assemble went with OWS and other instances. So just wondering when this civil war is going to happen?
The following Chris Hedges interview with Bruce Fein on the constitution is rather instructive. To quote " I think the constitution has been taken off life support"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3xAjo1CBkU
Would love to hear your thoughts.