The Trouble with Money

Hey Chris!  An elegant piece of writing and commentary.  It is congruent with re-reading Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth by Buckminster Fuller.  He identified the issues from a similiar perspective in the decades leading up to the publication of Manual in 1969.  A few operative sentences leading into major themes:
*"One of the myths of the moment suggest that wealth comes from individual bankers and capitalists."

*"The question "What is wealth?"commands our primary consideration."

"We could burn up the Spaceship Earth itself to provide energy .  .  ."

Well, I can’t do it justice here, but will say that Bucky addresses employment, energy, gold, education, war, computers and technology, design, and the future of our children and suggest that everyone pick this little gem up for a quick re-read.

"Now we can account wealth more precisely as the number of forward days for a specific number of people we are physically prepared to sustain at a physically stated time and space liberating level of metabolic and metaphysical regeneration."

In corresponding with John Mauldin re: his posting "Where will the Jobs Come From?", John said:  "Bucky is one of the geniuses of our era."

Good luck and God Speed, everyone.



Hey… welcome to the boards… and thank you for quoting Bucky Fuller… just another reminder of what a visionary he was.  One of my prized possessions is a signed copy of Synergetics (my parents got it signed for me while I was away at college).The potential still exists to take advantage of his ideas to do more with less… for instance, the amount of building material you need to enclose a given space with a geodesic dome (a structure that balances tension and compression) is much, much less than what is needed for our current norm of compressive (stacked) house construction.  The opportunity still exists to design a mass-production system of connectable triangles, using state-of-the-art materials, that could allow house sized structures to go up in a day… and they would be much more Tornado/Hurricane worthy as a result of the natural load-spreading in geodesics.  

Money is only valuable if you have so little of it. But it is not the measure of richness either. I believe the youth these days only live for the moment. Try to ask kids randomly what they thik they would become 5-10 years from now. Im sure only a few will have solid answers.


Thanks for the welcome.  I’ve been around for a while and your posts always get scrutiny.  Thank you for your well-reasoned thoughts.  I use Chris’ work and the site in much of my work.Carry on, my friend.

[quote=ferralhen]change is occuring now, not coming…yeah more change coming but don’t kid yourselves…it’s in process now. alot has already rapidly changed
read tainter and collapse of complex societies…a lot of what chris just wrote about describes what happens as a society collapses. only this time it’snow and it’s  a global society that is collapsing --as we speak. --dimishing returns etc[/quote]
Couldn’t agree more…  I’m often told "you doomers have been predicting all this stuff for decades, and nothing’s happened yet…"
Hullo…  look around!  I think most people think of collapse as something that suddenly happens overnight.  I’ve sure been guilty of this, but this is a slow motion train wreck.  Which is sad really, the slower it happens, the bigger the eventual collapse will be.  I wish we could just get on with it… sick of waiting, lots of things to do!

I agree that it is happening now, unnoticed by most.  I have a freaky theory on actual dates.  See this book:

Please check it out.  To save you time I’ll give you a summary.  There is an uncanny link between different types of people and eras of time. 

Thank you Chris for another well-reasoned demonstration of the problems with fiat currencies. Gold and silver are the traditional refuges when fiat goes wrong, as it inevitably does throughout history. However, gold and silver are difficult to use electronically which is where Bitcoin comes in (see Although Bitcoin has had its ups and downs, bitcoins continue to have value and are exchanged electroncially (and physically) for goods and services.
It would be interesting to hear Chris’ comments on the role of Bitcoin during the ongoing financial crisis, perhaps in terms of citizens taking control of their own monetary system without being reliant on fiat.

 Chris. You assert that " When this money all finally decides to go out and spend itself while it still has some value, it will be quite a process to observe. Just think of stored-up money like potential energy, the same as a massive snow cornice hanging precariously over a steep gully. It’s not a question of if, but when it will finally release and cause the value of money to plunge."
But you, along with so many others, fail to describe HOW this money will get into circulation. The "money" is created as debt, so the only way if CAN get into circulation is by someone borrowing it from the commercial banks who have been loaned it at historically low rates by central banks in a futile (so far) attempt to goose the real economy.

But banks can’t lend to you and me because our financial and economic situations are so precarious they (rightly) can’t trust us to repay it. Fact is that, if we had been creditworthy, they would already have been lending it, but it hasn’t happened.

Even if the banks were that stupid, WE wouldn’t borrow it because some of us have been smart enough to pay our debts down to zero and are not going to borrow anything at all in the foreseeable future and rest of us are already so crushed by our debts, or terrified of becoming so, that we are flat out trying to pay them down; there is no market for new consumer debt.

Another of my star reads is Nicole Foss at TAE who, I think, has the explanation. The massive supplies of money, being unpayable debts, will do what all unpayable debts do eventually; get written off. The money has been written into existence, it can be written out of existence and when it is, through a massive price discovery, the banks that hold all that unpayable debt, like every business that holds too many unpayable debts, go broke.

Then the fun will really get started. 

That quibble aside, however, the rest is spot on. Thanks for the clarity

 Good blog post. Congrats. Few have realized that the existing systems are all purely fantasy that we have mistaken for reality. Nature doesn’t let us make that kind of mistake in the long run. 
We have been living in this useless destructive paradigm for millennia, allowed to survive only because the population was too scarce to have the kind of impact we have now. Now, we are reaching a crux that will certainly be ‘Paradise or Oblivia’. Both are considered impossible to the old paradigm, which survives because of a socially taught form of cynical thought that seems to work but only in the mind, which is maintained only because the natural world is adaptive enough to allow us our fantasy. But it cannot survive much longer unless we change the way we think, individually and en mass.
And unfortunately, all past ideas are part of the matrix of the old paradigm, all the ‘isms’ that have been proposed. The old paradigm is soo fixed, so immobile, that it is almost impossible for people to think outside the limits of that dysfunctional paradign. But reality always trumps fantasy. 
So the change is happening. I’ve been working on this for 50 years and I follow R. Buckminster Fuller, Jacque Fresco, Einstein and many others. Now it has finially started, the paradigm shift that we must have to survive as a species, if it’s not too late. With our insanity applied to real dangers, like nuke plants melting down, that is in question, but we must act like we can change, in case the worse does not happen.
It’s first form is in the Zeitgeist Movement, the first real cloud phenomina created by the new technology of world communication. The Venus Project is how to do it, the Zeitgeist Movement is the act of doing it. It is an education effort, first and foremost, although some of the million plus members think it must be faster and more dynamic, like most young folks. But it will take a generation or two, and much will happen between now and then, which will make the world more and more receptive to the changes that must occur, and occur peacefully and comprehensively, and cannot be imposed by anyone or any exacting ‘ism’. It is something new and necessary.
Come and check out this first flush of realization that is the forerunner of the changes. You are welcome now that you have popped through to a better understanding, although more is yet to come. Contact me at for any answers I can give you. If I don’t know, I’ll say so. Ego strips are not proeuctive and this is not just me or a few others… it has to be a global effort for all humanity and the ecosystem
Peace and good health to you and youres,
Roan Carratu ( Also on Facebook under Roan Carratu.