A Crisis Within A Crisis

Tito’s warns customers: Vodka is not a safe hand sanitizer
‘“Per the CDC, hand sanitizer needs to contain at least 60 percent alcohol. Tito’s Handmade Vodka is 40 percent alcohol, and therefore does not meet the current recommendation of the CDC,” the brand tweeted.’
https://www.reuters.com/

From my perspective - I see from the WHO not declaring a Pandemic to the CDC not making virus tests available and many responses “the virus only affects old people”. The apathy and indifference is shocking.
Corporations, the Government and the Military are training grounds for narcissists and sociopaths. The upper levels of each are highly populated with them. No doubt these people are highly effective, charming and affable and effective. (forever wars comes to mind). But these people and practices are to the detriment of mankind. I suspect our species may not survive.
Anyway Mr. Rebel I found your communication to be blunt and analytical and devoid of compassion and empathy. Unfortunately, I made you the target of my frustration and I apologize. You are entitled to your opinion.
It seems that I sometimes find peoples opinions and indifference offensive. Things we learned in kindergarten are often lacking, like be nice, use your manners, share, be kind, no bullying etc. Basic practices are absent in many adults.
Like many I suspect my emotions and irritability are on edge. Ugh, tolerance is a skill I am still working on.
AKGrannyWGrit
 

New flu cases, hospitalizations drop for third week in a row
[edit: bold added]
“According to figures released Friday, the agency estimates that at least 34 million Americans have been sickened by the virus this season, with 350,000 of them requiring hospitalization. In addition, 20,000 deaths have been linked with the flu. All statistics are through February 29.”
“Still, the CDC noted that hospitalizations and deaths remain “moderate to low overall,” and the percentage of visits to healthcare providers for “influenza-like” illness dropped from 5.5 percent to 5.3 percent during the most recent week. It was the third consecutive weekly decline.”
“And, just two million more Americans were sickened during the most recent seven-day period, less than the three million per week seen for much of this winter.
In all, 6.9 percent of all deaths nationally during the week ending February 29 were attributed to pneumonia or influenza, which is below the CDC’s threshold for an epidemic of 7.3 percent.”
"In addition, the number of states reporting “high” flu activity through Feb. 29 declined from 44 to 42, with Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming on the list. "
“…The vast majority of flu strains in circulation, however, respond to treatment with currently available antivirals.”
https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/03/06/New-flu-cases-hospitalizations-drop-for-third-week-in-a-row/1321583511733/?lh=40

Coronavirus is more worrisome than seasonal flu
[Sparky1 comment: Some of the author’s stats are too low, but his general argument is on target, IMO.]
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/Voices/2020/03/03/Coronavirus-is-more-worrisome-than-seasonal-flu/5351583242218/?st_rec=1321583511733

Nairobi wrote:

With millions of page views, thousands of new subscribers and ever growing demand its probably time Chris hired himself an experienced webmaster to fix a few site bugs. The volunteers can’t seem to get it done. This thumbs up bug is already a couple weeks old. Once this Covid19 really picks up I will bet this site will be so overloaded with views it will start getting frozen. such is success.
Just want to clarify a few things about the website. First, we've long worked with a full-time IT firm to operate and keep this website running. It is NOT a volunteer effort (I wish it were, it would save us a LOT of cost) That said, we've been juggling a number of issues of late that have been concurrent with the massive wave of new traffic from our covid-19 coverage. One of them is a site-wide update of all of our WordPress plug-ins that was performed 10 days ago; it caused a number of unexpected glitches we've been scrambling to fix, including the Like counter issue. A larger challenge is that we're in the process of transitioning oversight of the website to another IT firm. The short summary is that things should be running a lot smoother soon, once that transition is complete. There have already been a number of site speed & stability improvements that have been successfully rolled out over the past several weeks. A LOT goes on behind the scenes to keep PP.com chugging along and (hopefully) improving with each year. Much of it is infrastructure work no one notices unless something breaks -- yet it requires a lot of effort, time, cost and attention, nonetheless. But rest assured we are working hard on the both the visible and non-visible issues. And if you experience a site bug, please let us know by emailing us at support@peakprosperity.com. If we're not already aware of it, we'll add it to the list for our IT folks. cheers, A

Granny,
No worries. You weren’t entirely wrong in any case - I am not filled with empathy by nature although I have worked on it with at least some degree of success for a couple of decades now. I do try to be a good person though in the sense of attempting to understand how the world might be a better place and trying to ensure that my actions do not harm others even if I go about it without hugs, tears and kisses.
Equally I don’t think dispassionate discussion of statistics, finance and supplies is a bad thing in and of itself - in fact getting a proper understanding of what’s going on is about the most useful thing that can be done on an internet message board in terms of helping others. I could post here about how terrible it all is - but that wouldn’t really help anyone would it?
From my perspective – I see from the WHO not declaring a Pandemic to the CDC not making virus tests available and many responses “the virus only affects old people”. The apathy and indifference is shocking.
I agree that the the WHO and CDC appear to have behaved in ways that are not necessarily desirable. I would have used the adjectives corrupt and incompetent myself.
“Corporations, the Government and the Military are training grounds for narcissists and sociopaths. The upper levels of each are highly populated with them. No doubt these people are highly effective, charming and affable and effective. (forever wars comes to mind). But these people and practices are to the detriment of mankind.”
I would substitute the more general word “hierarchies” where you use “Corporations, the Government and the Military”. I also think it is easy to set up a “them” and “us” in your mind but I’m not sure things are so simple. Solzhenitsyn expressed what I believe is the true state of affairs better when he said “the dividing line between good and evil cuts through every human heart”. We all have it in us to be both good and evil - there are very few, perhaps no people, who are entirley one or the other. I am also very fond of the native American saying that within each of us lives a good wolf and a bad wolf, and whichever we feed gets stronger. Still I do agree that the people who seek power are rarely filled with only good qualities. And some of them don;t have much in the way of empathy or a conscience.
“I suspect our species may not survive.”
Probably not. Most don’t after all. We may manage to last a while longer yet though.
“Anyway Mr. Rebel I found your communication to be blunt and analytical and devoid of compassion and empathy. Unfortunately, I made you the target of my frustration and I apologize. You are entitled to your opinion.”
Apology accepted.
“It seems that I sometimes find peoples opinions and indifference offensive. Things we learned in kindergarten are often lacking, like be nice, use your manners, share, be kind, no bullying etc. Basic practices are absent in many adults.
Like many I suspect my emotions and irritability are on edge. Ugh, tolerance is a skill I am still working on.”
Perhaps you can help me learn empathy, and at the same time you can practice your tolerance on me :slight_smile:

Jim,
Here is the web site for the home which where ten patients have died.
https://lcca.com/locations/wa/kirkland/
Here is the marekting blurb:
“Positioned near Juanita Bay and northeast of Seattle, Washington, Life Care Center of Kirkland is the perfect choice for patients and residents seeking skilled nursing care, inpatient and outpatient rehabilitation and short-term and long-term care in a premier nursing home. Our team carefully crafts plans tailored to each patient and resident to achieve the maximum possible level of independence restoration using state-of-the-art therapy techniques and equipment such as the Biodex Balance System SD and the VitalStim® therapy system.”
So my guess is pretty much 100% of the patients here have suffered from diabetes, stroke or heart attack - which might explain the apparently high death rate. Obviously I can’t be absolutely certain of that - but I much prefer the Diamond Princess given its larger sample size and population which is more likely to be reflective of the overall population.
South Korea is probably producing the best statistics outside a closed system - they are testing six times as many people per million as Italy for example so are much more likely to be catching milder cases as well as the more serious ones - and unsurprisingly the CFR appears to be much lower than other places.
I agree that all conclusions remain tentative and additional data must be continually evaluated as it shows up. But i think its very important to look for data which contradicts previous conclusions rather than seek out and interpret data to support those conclusions.
Rebel

Hi Adam, Thanks so much for your update on the behind-the-scenes activities and challenges regarding PP site functionality. Its encouraging to know that these issues are being addressed, even if not always visible to the end user. I appreciate the considerable time, effort, and financial resources you, Chris and the entire PP team expend in keeping this growing operation running smoothly. :slight_smile:

China is running empty factories, faking worker attendance records, etc. https://theweek.com/speedreads/900488/chinas-coronavirus-recovery-all-fake-whistleblowers-residents-claim
I worked at a Hospital in Beijing for 11+ years and am in frequent contact with former colleagues and friends. My wife is from Henan Province in China. Everyone we have been talking to says that things appear to be getting better and some are going back to work. The last several days have seen new cases in the single digit range according to a Chinese-American physician friend there.

I have one question for them. I understand this is not a healthy strong young group of people. But, have they ever had 10 deaths in a month with other seasonal illness? - that should tell you this is not the flu… I know this answer here.

I don’t care what the CFR is (or is not) - to me anyway, the case fatality rate is a largely irrelevant and pedantic discussion. What catches my attention is:

  1. That China chose to lockdown 500 million of its citizens for a month (or more) - knowing full well what effect that would have upon its economy and peoples lives
  2. That many other countries are considering doing the same thing
  3. That many people are suffering en-masse and dying more than normal :-(
In my opinion these actions and reactions are absolutely not normal. Not normal at all. Countries don't do this for no reason. Absolutely not. So we should hear it. Of course, I don't want the economy to crater (how will that help anybody) - but I do care about people who are suffering and frightened. And I care about care-givers, people like sand_puppy and many others who put their own lives at risk on the front line of care-giving. And I care about people who care. Chris and thousands of others (here and elsewhere) care a lot. And for the record, whether accurately calculated or not - Chris's directional predictions have been absolutely spot on right from the get go. And he made these predictions long ago and without any benefit of hindsight. For that and for his courage to step outside of the herd and speak out - Chris gets my big thumbs up. The Big Story: Epicenter - 24 Hours in Wuhan - is an interesting insight into the lives of normal folk and care-givers in Wuhan in February (it might be a propaganda production, I don't know - but it is interesting to see nevertheless). Perhaps this is coming to the rest of us, I hope not. I'm grateful to all the care-givers and responders who stand forward and risk their lives to help the rest of us in times of need. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df3Fo4beEp0 Good luck with your investments, I hope they work out for you.

To be honest WP is pretty plug and play. and they you have 3 party extensions that are really great. You could do a killer WP site in a couple days. Its not a big deal to get a great website going " caveat" if you know what your doing. This site could easily be handled by 1 person. Yes to roll out changes take a lot of planing and prep… personally I would have never rolled an update during the last few weeks with what was going on… Yes speed is an issue… I am not sure what the budget is here for the IT for this site. But , just knowing what I charge. I could get you mirrored on 10 super servers in the cloud - that could easily handle a 10-100 million page view per month plus a couple hundred thousand subscribers for something a lot less… than you would imagine// lets say its something I could afford if i only made 50k a year.

A lively discussion with plenty of give and push back too. Go on Granny… :slight_smile:
And a reasonable response from Rebel to Granny too. Copy that.

“Anyway Mr. Rebel I found your communication to be blunt and analytical and devoid of compassion and empathy. Unfortunately, I made you the target of my frustration and I apologize. You are entitled to your opinion.” Apology accepted. “It seems that I sometimes find peoples opinions and indifference offensive. Things we learned in kindergarten are often lacking, like be nice, use your manners, share, be kind, no bullying etc. Basic practices are absent in many adults. Like many I suspect my emotions and irritability are on edge. Ugh, tolerance is a skill I am still working on.” Perhaps you can help me learn empathy, and at the same time you can practice your tolerance on me ?
 

Please don’t misunderstand me. I have explicitly stated that I believe Chris is a fine man. I have also said that I agree with many of his opinions. My message was absolutely not intended to be a general statement that Chris is a bad person. If I didn’t find value in Chris’s opinions why would I have visited this web-site many times over several years?
I also agree that this virus is not a nothing burger. It does indeed have the potential to cause a significant amount of pain and suffering - and if we do not take sensible measures it can overwhelm our hospitals and cause even more pain and suffering.
However I also think that it is important to continually evaluate new data as it emerges and challenge our pre-existing assumptions. I do not think Chris is doing this effectively any longer - and I think it is a good act to point this out.
So I agree when you say Chris gets a thumbs up. He gets a thumbs up - in general - from me too.
I also agree when you say Wuhan is not normal and that we cannot ignore this virus.
However I also think that it is important not to over-estimate the danger either. Accurate analysis and information should be our goal. And I think Chris is succumbing to confirmation bias at this point and that is no longer helpful to him or anyone else.
I would encourage you and anyone/everyone else to attack my message as much as you like. I welcome such criticism for only under fire will the truth emerge. But you too should welcome my criticism. It is not a wrong act in and of itself to criticize.
Chris is a great guy. We agree. Chris has been right about many things. We agree. I believe Chris is no longer analyzing the data clearly. You may not agree with that statement - but the fact that I am saying it doesn’t mean I am a bad person.
:slight_smile:
Rebel

Ok thanks Adam. Its hard to get good help these days. Looks like you will have to be more forceful with your new webmasters since the outgoing guys were not taking you seriously enough. PP command and control is coming. This is like a war room after all. We might all be modeled more like the Chinese system one day. LOL

Chris is a great guy. We agree. Chris has been right about many things. We agree. I believe Chris is no longer analyzing the data clearly. You may not agree with that statement – but the fact that I am saying it doesn’t mean I am a bad person.
Thank you for your response - I don't think you are a bad person.
However I also think that it is important not to over-estimate the danger either. Accurate analysis and information should be our goal.
Whether the danger is being under or over-estimated - nobody knows for sure, but I guess the truth and consequences will out soon enough. China chose to play poker with its economy and public opinion to take a forceful approach and the world gasped in shock. Perhaps it was over-estimation and overkill. Other countries are choosing to be less (shockingly) forceful - maybe the approach will turn out to be an under-estimation on a "Liz Specht, exponential scale" with regrettable consequences. I can't predict the right answer (data analysis) but I'm leant towards the camp of snuffing it out forcefully (quickly) and trying to keep the economic fallout/healthcare system distress within survivable levels. With countries being divided on their approach and rhetoric - whether anyone arees with each other or not, we'll all soon find out who is under and over-estimating the risks.  

“I can’t predict the right answer (data analysis) but I’m leant towards the camp of snuffing it out forcefully (quickly) and trying to keep the economic fallout/healthcare system distress within survivable levels.”
I agree with this entirely. I am severely disappointed with the failure in the US to test, trace contacts, isolate and snuff out. I worry that we are too late and that there will be a death toll which will be higher than it should have been as a result.
I think schools should be closed, large gatherings banned, etc.
I also happen to think that the CFR is probably well below 1%.

Unfortunately this post is not aging well RE: case fatality rate.