Ah Pat, I rarely smile these days, but this morning, I can’t seem to stop! Even my missus reckons I’ve turned into a grumpy old man… she’s gonna wonder what happened when she wakes up soon!
Mike
Mike,
I’ll do better than that and put a link to it here :-
What if......?
https://peakprosperity.com/forum/what-if/9651
I’ve been reading through everything that I hold dear to me about this site over the past few days; much of it back toward its beginings. I re-read this 2 days ago…
Much respect!!!
Now keep your smile up ya grumpy B
!!
On another note, this video struck hard and deep :-
We The People Stimulus Package
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA
…two and one half million people have viewed this film since March 16th!!! Get to a Tea Party!!!
Best,
Paul
I don’t have debt so it’s hard to not service.
Spoke with some Brits as well as a couple of Germans on my travels this past week and they’re as clueless as most of America. Most were saying that they see a light at the end of the tunnel…I told them that what they see is the Chunnel Train coming at them. God Help Us.
I realize I’m lonely in valuing this belief, but I think that the Old Testament practice of cancelling all debts in jubilee years was a precient idea.
This is my first post and this is well, quite a site. Mr. Martenson, you have built an incredible structure of education, honesty, courage and clarity.
I stumbled backwards into this site researching peak oil, peak debt, and our whirlpool economy. I, uh, don’t really have any answers here either but like others around me, I keep trying to slap myself out of this nightmare, and no matter what I do, the monsters keep getting bigger along with their appetites.
In my imagination, I never thought things could come to this. I know that’s sounds melodramatic, naive, and even immature but well, everytime I turn it around, that’s how it feels. And after a couple of interesting misteps in my own life, I have learned that the worst possible thing a person can do, is to shut off their instincts. Now my instincts are screaming for action.
I, like some of the others, find myself, all at once, caught between a desire to organize at some large level, and a despearte fear driving me to keep it close and local, and prepare for my own, and my family’s survival. But something tells me that if I don’t also try to organize and move something politically, I will have let my children (and your children) down. Cause things are getting worse. And the players are getting desperate
I am a former prosecutor by trade, still practice criminal law, and like many of you, I am floored by the audacity, and destruction flowering from our broken government. I keep trying to compare this moment to any other chapter in history and I can’t. The corruption sure, but peak oil, peak debt, peak resoruces, global warming? What do you compare that to? I am so afraid that it will end in violence. So many things do.
So then, I try to rack my brain and look for a historical inspiration to build some kind of strategy. Maybe Ghandi. But would that many people follow the lead? Hell, would that many people face the fire? I keep thinking that the only leverage wielded by and on the corrupt is economic. How does one wield back? How do we organize it? DamntheMatrix may have a point here. But his suggestion seems to be calling out all the stops, pulling out all the cards at once. We may be there already who knows. But how could we build the pressure and keep that one as the final leverage? Maybe a Plastic Ghandi strategy? Maybe, at least at first, instead of ceasing to service our debt, we cease consuming. In some organized fashion? We divide into four? units and each unit makes absolutely no purchases for one week. And absoluteley no more credit card use. If you’re in dire straights, at least no use for that week. Might be impossible but it might be good practice for a our bartered, battered and very local economic future. Would any of that have an impact? A good way to spread the sacrifice? Collectively, as time builds, would it wield any leverage? It’s civil disobedience and… it’s legal. Maybe the more the powers that be keep screaming for us to buy and borrow, the more they keep showing us their heel? I don’t know. But I have to do something for my children and I know I can not do it alone. I need brave, honest, intelligent people like you.
Again thanks for the site.
DCM
DCM,
May I be the first to welcome you to the forum. The first message is the very hardest. You’ll find many, including myself, who feel very much the same as you within…
Best,
Paul
Yes,
Good to hear from you, DCM; people from varied backgrounds contribute a lot on this iste.
SG
Thanks for the post, DCM. It really inspired me. I agree that economic power is our main leverage, but we must remember that the ultimate power is the power over food. Was it Ramses who brought the proud neighboring peoples under his power, and ultimately, into slavery, by controlling grain, by fortuitously being able to predict bounty, followed by famine?
I believe that push coming to shove, food will be the lever, and to throw the beast off of our back, we must be willing to suffer much. My heart breaks for you, as I know how much pain you must feel as you look at your children. In the meantime, most of us are preparing as well as we can, with much guidance from this site. As for me, I can’t imagine facing this future without prayer.
I wish you the very best, and I’ll be looking forward to your posts.
Chris -
Your quote -
One of the more grossly mismanaged companies on the face of the planet, the one that will cost taxpayers close to a trillion dollars when all is said and done, is Fannie Mae, the Government Sponsored Enterprise, or GSE. Last night (Monday, April 14th, 2009) this came across my newswire:
7:30 [FNM] Fannie Mae Chief Executive Herb Allison to run TARP: WSJ
So who is it, do you suppose, that picked the CEO of Fannie Mae to run TARP? Could it be Summers and Geithner and Emanuel?
You bet. That’s the vetting team.
As far as I am concerned, the CEO of Fannie Mae should be defending himself in court, not running a massive wealth redistribution program.
Facts:
-
Herb Allison was appointed by James Lockhart of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, the conservator of Fannie Mae, on September 8, 2008 to attempt to clean up the mess at a salary of $1 per year
-
Dan Mudd was the previous CEO from Feb 2000 - Dec 2004; Franklin Raines was the CEO from Jan 1999 - Dec 2004
Opinion:
-
You owe Mr. Allison an apology…your comment regarding "defending himself in court" should have been directed towards Mudd & Raines.
-
As a new initiate to the Crash Course (and a believer of its precepts), your comments re. Allison diminish your credibility and cause me to question the diligence of your research on other topics. The Allison facts were so easy to check…less than a 3 minute google search.
" Strange memories on this nervous night in Las Vegas. Has it been five years. Six. It seems like a lifetime. The kind of peak that never comes again. San Francisco in the middle of the sixties was a very special time and place to be a part of, but no explanation. No mix of words or music or memories can touch that sense of knowing that you were there and alive at that corner of time in the world, whatever it meant. There was madness in any direction at any hour. You could strike sparks anywhere. It was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing, it was right. That we were winning, and that I think was the handle. That sense of inevitable victory over the forces of old and evil; not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. We had all the momentum. We were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look west. And with the right kind of eyes, you can almost see the high watermark. That place, where the wave finally broke, and rolled back. " - Hunter S.Thompson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ozFAjANZc8
…it’s time to recreate the past inside the present and get it right this time around…
Best,
Paul
Hello Paul -
Been awhile since we swapped posts.
You triggered a major deja vu with you HST clip. Plopped me smack into the middle of Kerouac’s "On The Road". Gotta go read that again now.
I dunno if anyone reads this far down in a comment thread, but just in case:
Here’s an essay that may help explain the mindset of the dramatis personae in this tragedy (or is it farce?): http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/. Certainly Geithner’s annoyed reaction to having his judgment questioned seems to reflect that attitude.
Personally, I don’t see anything much different in the nature of the current corruption in the government than we’ve been seeing for a few decades now. The difference is that the situation is getting more desparate. I wonder what it looked like to the average American from 1929-1933, while the Hoover Administration tried to patch things up without upsetting the top dogs who had run rampant for the previous several years.
My own feeling about what will work best at the "grass roots" level, is to cure ourselves of our dependence on the national/international/global diseconomy, and regrow local communities, societies, and economies that work in the local contexts.
Rick,
The Beats… have a slice… :-
"…the feeling of having been used, of being raw. It involves a sort of nakedness of mind, and, ultimately, of soul; a feeling of being reduced to the bedrock of consciousness. In short, it means being undramatically pushed up against the wall of oneself. A man is beat whenever he goes for broke and wages the sum of his resources on a single number…" - John Clellon Holmes - Nothing More To Declare
…if that don’t feel relevant to this thread, I must’ve shot my wife while playing William Tell without the apple or a bow and arrow…I am William Burroughs magnified…gotta get to South America on the hitch-n-ride and pee off the deck of the truck while the driver slalums and brakes and dives and we all laughed at the efavescent wonder of being so free and wild like the wind that howled; mighty soul river in my dear heart revelling mind of the moment time…
"…If Jesus is the Son of God, then so am I…" - Kerouac - Pomes
Chuck in some ‘Bird’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFx9ZBlBUuc
"…thats ‘IT’ man…that’s the ‘IT’…I dreamed it true…"
Best,
Paul
Dwig,
It’s good to see new faces appearing on this forum, because you’re the second I’ve written to on this thread tonight. Firstly, Welcome…
There is no change from the past, it’s just so much more blatant. I wisp around the forum and find details that make you jump along a path of thought but, I’d say a criminal amount of some 80% of the voting public haven’t a clue what’s happening right out of their own pockets. Here’s a thread from a while ago that holds no bones :-
Why the revolution isn't forthcoming
https://peakprosperity.com/forum/why-revolution-isnt-forthcoming/8581
Quote:
"We live in two Americas. One America, now the minority, functions in a print-based, literate world. It can cope with complexity and has the intellectual tools to separate illusion from truth. The other America, which constitutes the majority, exists in a non-reality-based belief system. This America, dependent on skillfully manipulated images for information, has severed itself from the literate, print-based culture. It cannot differentiate between lies and truth. It is informed by simplistic, childish narratives and clichés. It is thrown into confusion by ambiguity, nuance and self-reflection. This divide, more than race, class or gender, more than rural or urban, believer or nonbeliever, red state or blue state, has split the country into radically distinct, unbridgeable and antagonistic entities."
That alone makes me jump but, the looting in the USA has been going on for longer than you’d think just so as the American ‘gravy train’ could keep rolling. I’m passionate about a man called John Perkins who’s written two well defined books that you’ll find out more of from this interview I love to throw around these parts for a decent reaction of sorts :-
How To Destabalize Countries Legally .Economic Hitman
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6WstddMJZQ
…but don’t let my bias sway you here, I’m just one (written) voice of many inside this forum…
Best,
Paul
Chris,
The thing that is most disconcerting about all this is that as you point out, they didn’t even pause to pretend there would be a difference under the Obama administration than what they were doing under Bush. I am not sure if desperate is the word I would use to describe all this, as much as truly audacious.
I realize that you have tended to shy away from politics here, but as dcm suggested, it is quite hard to sit and watch our country being robbed like this and our children’s hope and future undermined and destroyed, without trying to do something to help at a level beyond our own immediate situations.
While President Obama is on his honeymoon now, soon the bankruptcy and immorality of these "solutions" will become so clear that even his silver tongued rhetoric won’t be able to hide the criminality of it all. Like dcm, I am increasingly concerned that this will all lead to very ugly violence.
I am not yet aware of a political movement bringing together those concerned with all the issues discussed here - economics, environment, resources, rule of law, rationality. It seems time to help inspire one.
Most of the greenies I know are still on the big government bandwagon, helping to enable all this insane stuff. If anyone has thoughts or contacts for an organized responsible and thoughtful political response to what is going on, I would like to be more engaged.
Thanks,
Fred Unger
Unger@hrtwd.com
www.heartwoodsolutions.com
http://emergingconsensus.wordpress.com
Thanks for the post, DCM. It really inspired me. I agree that economic power is our main leverage, but we must remember that the ultimate power is the power over food. Was it Ramses who brought the proud neighboring peoples under his power, and ultimately, into slavery, by controlling grain, by fortuitously being able to predict bounty, followed by famine?
I believe that push coming to shove, food will be the lever, and to throw the beast off of our back, we must be willing to suffer much. My heart breaks for you, as I know how much pain you must feel as you look at your children. In the meantime, most of us are preparing as well as we can, with much guidance from this site. As for me, I can’t imagine facing this future without prayer.
I wish you the very best, and I’ll be looking forward to your posts.
[/quote]
I am of the opinion that food is the answer on this, too. And massive consumption cutbacks. Stop buying walmart-style junk and only buy things you need that are of good quality.
Ghandi used self-sustainability as leverage. I think we can, too. He started with salt. I think we need to do it with as many options as we have. Food, water, watever. If you’re in a city, you can still get a reasonable amount of food from planters on a deck or patio. You can buy local and cut oil out of the loop as much as possible. Stop buying plastic. Bring your own bags to the grocery store if you are forced to go there. Choose items that come from as local to you as possible and are organic. Take public transit or travel less often. Opt out of the system, as much as you can. It might not seem like much, but I mean - it’s a start. Movements grow in small steps. Ghandi didn’t start out with thousands of followers, you know? He started out with a vision and a handful of salt.
I thought of this for anyone who wishes to get out there and make changes to this "Audacious" government because, quite frankly, if you can’t see it being done where you live, it must mean ‘You’ were meant to begin it?? Think of it like going to a party and not finding the ‘Idiot’. If you can’t find one in the group…"You’re It!!!"
Have a look about you - Chris Martenson…haven’t heard of him…
???
Quote :-
" When I first started getting involved with Radical-Direct-action-Non-hiarchical-Eco-autonomous-Grass-roots-organisations, I didn’t understand the concept of no leaders. I thought I did; but I didn’t. And I’d go upto the nearest alpha male or alpha female and say, "Here’s what you should do - Why don’t you do this - It’d be great if you all did this - And when are you going to do this?" And they’d give you this look, that I never understood, which was kind of …
I think, "Weird". And I’d go up to the next alpha, "When are you going to do this - It’d be great if you did this - Why haven’t you done this yet - Why don’t you do this - It’d be wonderful if you did this?" And again, they’d give me this look, like …
And after a year, the penny dropped, and I finally realised what that look meant, because they won’t tell you, because that would be hiarchical, right? What this look meant was, "Yes, good Idea, why don’t you do it yourself? You print the leaflets, I’ll distribute them; you call a meeting, I’ll attend; you organise an action, we’ll come along".
And from that moment, I realised that, my whole philosophical outlook changed. And from then on, instead of suggesting things other people could do, I stopped suggesting things all-together, in-case they expected me to do them…" - Robert Newman
Best,
Paul
Golly gee. Chris quoted a professor who used the term "financial oligarchy." Why aren’t all of you who accused me of being a conspirator for using the same phrase attacking Chris right now?
This news is so old it sort of ticks me off, but that’s why I’m posting for the first time in a while…I’m energized again. I gave up joining in these discussions a couple weeks ago because it was clear people here weren’t serious about identifying and understanding the real problem…THE FINANCIAL OLIGARCHY behind our fraudulent, parasitic, anti-constitution, anti-republic government. The system they put in place is the source of exponential corporate growth, exponential energy use, destruction of local community, exponential indebtedness, continuing obligation for all of us to work harder to drive profit to these idiots and take home less money for ourselves due to their deliberate inflation. THEY ARE THE PROBLEM. They have hijacked the govt as Chris lays out well above. They hijacked our monetary system long before…in 1913. So there’s more to solving the problem we’re in than just growing veggies (though I’m a huge fan of that).
Now Chris has finally looked into and identified what many of us have known since Regan (ex CEO of Merrill) was Treasury Sec back in the friggin 80s. And he’s incredulous/angry about it…AWESOME! Get angry folks! You now have Chris’ permission. Better late than never I guess…welcome aboard!
Now if only Chris would go a step further and identify the people who sit above the people he laid out in the above story. Geithner, Paulson, Emanuel, etc. are just the operating pawns on the chessboard…the people we see on TV. There is a higher level financial oligarchy that the IMF economist would never name, which is unfortunate because it means their names will never be in the types of news articles Chris relies on for building his evidentiary cases…the people behind the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, the ECB, and even the IMF itself (these are the guys proposing the SDR program…why listen to them as the ultimate authority?). If you only focus on the public personas like Geithner, you won’t fix the problem. Geithner/Paulson/etc are little stooges who would be completely incapable of pulling this off without a higher level structure in place. Think about it…how did these jokers get in office in the first place? How did they get picked? Who really picks? Why not other people? Do you actually believe these jobs are open to the best qualified candidate and anyone can apply? Why have they never had anybody who believes in sound money, or a change to the Fed, or a constraint on Wall St engineering, or a less collusive DC system, etc? Why was Bush’s first treasury sec run out of town…because he wasn’t on the approved list…he wouldn’t play the game. What’s the game? Who makes the rules? Another question to consider: could these people really create such a corrupt system without a higher level plan given they only hold office for a short amount of time? Of course not. Go after the structure. End the Fed, end the Wall St monopoly on financial control of the US, breakup Goldman Sachs, pass an amendment on term limits to get rid of the congressmen who joined the oligarchy, scrap the income tax code, downsize the IRS, downsize DOJ, shutdown federal agencies and give power back to the states. THEN you fix the problem.
This isn’t intended as a slap. It’s intended as a rallying cry. If this ticks any of you off, cool! People need to get angry. I’m so sick of this corrupt bunch of criminals stealing my money every year…and I don’t have kids! I can’t imagine why all of you with kids and grandkids haven’t gone mad with rage at this system. Clearly it’s because you weren’t wise to it. Now you’re wise to it. Demand a fix!
What baffles me is that Chris dreads the idea of a "public backlash" like other countries have experienced. Why!?!? That’s precisely what’s needed to wake people up and let the corrupt system know their days are numbered. Stop going on jogs to get rid of your emotional energy. Feel the righteous anger. Channel it into productive action. Again, demand a fix!
While Obama is not as abrasive as Gee Dub, he’s been groomed and winnowed by the same system. Had he been an independent thinker, he would have been rejected years ago. As a result, he’s perfectly qualified to manage the empire on behalf of all the patricians he’s bowed and scraped for. You could hardly slip a dollar bill between him and any other president we’ve had for the last 50 years.
Capitalism is about appropriating surplus value. Finance on the other hand is about creating credit in order to appropriate everything else. Finance knows no allegiance to anything including capitalism. The only solution to finance is to root it out like a tumor or a weed. It cannot and will not be reformed. Until it is abolished, it will loot America, and planet Earth for that matter.
i be the mathematician ready