Yes, I do “need” to post two and now a third comment (above) as I believe this is a symptom of a larger problem within PP. I wouldn’t bother if I didn’t care and hold out hope for positive change.
There was another umbrella man in Dealey Plaza during the JFK assassination. A coincidence?
i appreciate your post though I disagree with it in a number of ways. It takes a lot of effort and thought to put all of that out there.
You may have seen that I started following this site (actually Chris Martenson.com in 2007. I didn’t participate and was awol quite a bit but this site is far tamer and more welcoming than it was in the early days. There were some good ol flame wars going on. I remember a member named cloudfire, boy was she a pistol. There were a good many “characters” and Chris had to step in personally many times. Of course there was some really great exchanges as well.
I think you have to keep in mind that these are volatile times as it was back in 08/09. This brings people’s emotions more to the fore.
As for Karen she admittedly came here for the virus coverage. Well she had issues come up when Chris went to 2 per week and things heated up socially with George Floyd. As I said earlier, there is a great deal of material and there are also forum topics to peruse. It is also not necessary to come here everyday. Nor is it realistic to come here and have all your wants needs and desires met.
As fo Granny, well I stayed out of that one pretty much. I did on several occassions ask her direct questions to help me understand her point. She never once responded so to say nobody addressed her issues is way out of the ballpark. She was way out of line on that Market thread and completely derailed it. For no reason other than to grind her own axe. Admittedly I was gone for a lot of the time in the past but I never got much useful information either actionable or educational from her posts. So bottom line for me I really don’t miss her.
People come people go people come back. You do what feeds your needs at any given time. This site is what it is and Chris and Adam owe no one an apology. They work their asses off. BTW I can go to the archives and in a matter of minutes find all kinds of interesting stuff.
Hope you enjoyed the Lord’s day
To me it seems like PP throws a few ecological bread crumbs out there to appear balanced and then falls back into the money money money mode. Here’s what the REAL “as the world burns” will look like:
https://voiceofaction.org/collapse-of-civilisation-is-the-most-likely-outcome-top-climate-scientists/
Just multiply what’s in the news right now by a million and you will get an idea of what’s really in store for all of us bio-degradables. I’m not talking about one particular species either.
Thanks for the response and clarification. As far as I am concerned and have been for over 50 years the bones are bleaching in the sun.
As for Plato that was when there was a direct democracy and everyone could vote on issues. Not applicable here. But taking an interest in government has not limited the fools nor has it done anything but make the rich richer and the rest of the world a dangerous place. We do supply most of the weapons in the world. So that quote while catchy is a non starter.
As for solutions? Why bother? I am not a billionaire and can’t buy a Senator. No I take care of my sphere of influence and look forward to the day when the entire fascist empire house of cards comes tumbling down. I also get that is not a popular position here. It is easy to overlook the egregious behavior of this government when you are white middle class or better and have and are enjoying the fruits of empire. But the residents of Pine Ridge and the barrios and Camden and Detroit know what this is all about.
It will end . Suddenly? Maybe. Drawn out? Perhaps. I have been preparing for 52 years as best I can. It will probably shake out tribally/ gang.
Hope you are enjoying the Lord’s day in paradise.
Sparky wants this place to be all things to all people. We live in a sea of propaganda and many of us come here to do the hard work of figuring out what is true, and what is not. It’s messy business… the kitchen can get very hot, and I am certainly not here to be understanding with those who would argue that office fires melt steel, or with those who would present apologetics for Antifa. I would sooner listen to the voice of a writer who had his brains bashed by Antifa not far from where I live;
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2020/06/01/antifas_insurrection_has_been_decades_in_the_making_512820.htmlFrom where I sit I see forces at work trying to destroy the fabric of my country. We are in the midst of an information war - I have tried my best to be part of the team here opening a portal into that war with regard to HCQ. The HCQ deception is just one small part of a much bigger, ongoing and constant, deep state action against the current administration, and in fact against anyone who would get in their way. Tulsi Gabbard sure looked like an honest and sensible candidate... does anyone wonder why she had to be destroyed? She was clearly beyond compromise.. she had integrity. No good. She was Up on the Up/Down scale. She had served her country. Epstein was a compromiser .. that's what he did. He performed compromat. Washington DC is all about blackmail. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8397161/DOJ-demands-Prince-Andrew-available-questioning-links-Jeffrey-Epstein.html We live in a world of opposites. The mainstream media tells us Assad used chemical weapons on his people because they wanted us to support the destruction of Syria.. another sticker on the helmets for the Neocons. These were lies. I voted for Trump because I wanted the wars to end.. so far so good. This is factual... no wars. This is not politics.. this is what is real. We have not wrecked any countries in the last three years... in fact we have de-escalated with North Korea, which was demonstrably a deep state puppet prior. The mainstream media wants the average person to equate me, through extensive and ongoing NLP, with a Nazi because I happen to be white, and I happen to be an anti-Globalist. The mainstream media wants the average person to believe that I am a quack conspiracy theorist because I know that steel frame buildings don't fall down due to normal office fires. Sparky wants this to be a safe space for people under the spell of the mainstream media.. there are plenty of safe spaces for those people elsewhere. BTW, my wife cut the wings down on our chickens... I didn't even know that was a thing.. but I guess they won't jump the fence now. So yeah, I have chickens too.Antifa’s American insurgency
The far-left has perfected the art of rioting
Speaking of Andy Ngo, here’s a detailed interview with his attorney, Robert Barnes. The first half of the interview is largely about civil rights, an area he’s practiced for > 20 years, and issues surrounding Ngo and his run-in with ANTIFA, as well as discussion on the ongoing protests and riots.
https://www.georgegammon.com/robert-barnes-interview-civil-rights-attorney/
One reason to be concerned about ANTIFA and related groups is the history of similar left-wing groups during the cold war. These were mostly fronts for Soviet psyops to undermine American institutions.
“Russian GRU defector Stanislav Lunev said in his autobiography that “the GRU and the KGB helped to fund just about every antiwar movement and organization in America and abroad,” and that during the Vietnam War the USSR gave $1 billion to American anti-war movements, more than it gave to the VietCong,[19]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_influence_on_the_peace_movement
The modern Marxist/Maoist groups, including ANTIFA and groups like Red Guard, have as their goal the destabilization of America. Their choice of targets for violence has been listed as: large corporations; police departments; and churches. All three have been targeted in the recent riots.
Is the violence spontaneous, or the result of opportunism on the part of these ideological groups? I think the choice of targets is revealing. The businesses most targeted, as I could tell from the media, were large companies (Starbucks, Nike, Target) and high-end merchandise stores (Rolex, Mercedes, Coach). As with other riots (say, 1992 L.A.), local businesses owned by minorities suffered greatly, and that’s happened to a certain extent this time, too.
The biggest differentiator, though, is the targeting of churches. Why go after them? Demographics show the African-American community is very religious. If this were a spontaneous outbreak of violence over racist cops, why attack a church?
Attacking churches - a cultural center for many - is more in keeping with the leftist attack on American institutions.
What about COINTELPRO? What about agent provocateurs or false flag operations? Those have happened in the past, and may happen again. But we need evidence that it’s happening in this specific case. The general capacity for something does not imply that it happens in any specific instance. Until I see specific evidence for that, I look at the evidence I do have, which points to left-wing ideological groups seizing the opportunity to turn protests into riots.
I think it is a grave mistake to minimize the danger these groups pose. If they have broader support, it takes only a few violent actors to tip the scales. Recall the early years of the Nazis, when their influence was dismissed because they scored such a small fraction of the German vote. But they had their brownshirts, a relatively small group initially that was willing to take to the streets. They were pawns in the game of the politicians, much like ANTIFA is likely to be.
This evening, it looks like Minneapolis will disband its police force. What are the political views of the city council? Of their congressional representatives? Would they not benefit from this? A number of these politicians, activists, and violent groups are quite open in their views.
I should add that I’m aware of the danger from far-right extremist groups, but they are much less of a threat precisely because they are so widely unaccepted. As someone once put it: if you want to know who’s in control, look at who you can’t criticize.
What attracted me to PP were the COVID-19 coverage, but for far longer, the deeper discussion of economic topics. At some point, the economy has to collapse. I thought it was happening in 2008, yet here we are. Is this the collapse? Hard to say. I’ve been wrong on this for 12 years, so I’m looking very hard at the data of all kinds. One kind of data is social unrest. If this were a spontaneous uprising, it would indicate we are further along the road and closer to collapse. But if it isn’t spontaneous, if it is a hostile action, that’s something else. (That may also accelerate the decline, though.)
I’ve found online discussions of politics to be largely fruitless, generating far more heat than light. But in this case, identifying the nature of the protests riots is not a matter of idle conversation. It has direct bearing on the path this country is heading down.
I agree with what many have said here and elsewhere about the false narrative of left-right. It is a useful tool for oppression to scapegoat others, to divide the population along certain lines, and have politicians spout empty slogans to one side or the other, posing as their champions when in reality just wearing a different team jersey.
Hmmmm. OK, not much new or compelling there. I think Plato’s idea requires a majority of citizens to be interested. That’s why I have proposed the actions I have. Thanks for the response. I guess I’ll be taking my thoughts on this back to the Righteous Revolution thread. Aloha, Steve.
You’re welcome, MM. I appreciate your comments and the collegial spirit in which you’ve provided them. I’ve responded to your specific points below.
"I appreciate your post though I disagree with it in a number of ways. It takes a lot of effort and thought to put all of that out there."Fair enough. Thank you. Likewise, I appreciate your thoughtful and articulate comments MM, even though I may not always agree with them.
"I think you have to keep in mind that these are volatile times as it was back in 08/09. This brings people's emotions more to the fore."I agree, but 08/09 was "just" the GFC. Today we have multiple, escalating crises happening simultaneously as noted further in my post. IMO, this makes having civil, respectful, balanced and productive conversations more important than ever.
"As for Karen she admittedly came here for the virus coverage. Well she had issues come up when Chris went to 2 per week and things heated up socially with George Floyd. As I said earlier, there is a great deal of material and there are also forum topics to peruse. It is also not necessary to come here everyday. Nor is it realistic to come here and have all your wants needs and desires met."Yes, hundreds even thousands of people have gravitated to the PP site as a result of their initial awareness and interest in the Covid-19 information on YT and other social media platforms. This represents a great opportunity to expand and energize the PP community. I didn't see where Karen had "issues" when Chris went to two YT videos/week. I reviewed recent threads for any "issues" she had concerning the Floyd death and I couldn't find any. (Perhaps you can provide links?) She did, however, make statements doubting veracity of certain "conspiracy theories" (e.g., Bill Gates/vaccines/"chipping", and Antifa). She also referenced Jesus in two comments in humor that prompted sharp, disapproving responses both times from WCJan. IMO, Karen was entitled to her views, however unpopular here on PP re: conspiracies. And yes, invoking the name of a religious figure in humor is likely to offend some members and may run afoul of PP forum rules and guidelines. Karen was interested in and found content (e.g., chickens) other than Covid-19 on the site. Karen posted only 93 comments in her four months with PP. To my knowledge, she never expressed that she wanted to or did visit PP daily. Of course it is not reasonable to expect PP to meet all of one's wants, needs and desires. Could you please provide the link in which Karen stated that expectation? I couldn't find one and I don't recall her making any such statements.
"As fo Granny....She was way out of line on that Market thread and completely derailed it. For no reason other than to grind her own axe....I never got much useful information either actionable or educational from her posts. So bottom line for me I really don't miss her."I didn't mention AKGrannyWGrit in my post above. However, IMO there are some PP members that seem to have "axes to grind" and they appear to be well-tolerated or applauded by others. Please see the "Market Update: Comforting Lies" thread for my comments and views specific to Granny's situation. It seems that when I raise this issue of balance, herd behavior and intolerance of the "minority" view it is invariably personalized, which prompts an immediate predictable positive or negative reaction from certain PP members. It seems that some PP members have difficulty separating the message from the messenger. There are instances in which members (such as Karen) who question the prevailing narrative and/or established "seniors" in the tribe are unwelcomed, chastised, pushed aside or out. ("...you will not be happy here." JimH; "It is clear you are not a truth seeker in any way. I am not sure why you are here at PP....perhaps you should stick to Facebook as your reading / news source." WCJan.)
"People come people go people come back. You do what feeds your needs at any given time. This site is what it is and Chris and Adam owe no one an apology. They work their asses off. BTW I can go to the archives and in a matter of minutes find all kinds of interesting stuff."Yes, people come and go according to their interests and needs. Maybe a survey of former PP users/members would provide insight into why people come and go. If that is, in fact, a concern of Chris, Adam and/or other PP members. It seems that Chris and Adam do a lot of work to drive people to the PP site. I think their intention is that visitors would find the PP site and community a good "fit" and want to stay and become long term paying subscribers. It might be helpful to understand who exactly is the intended target audience for PP. If the target audience matches the current PP user/member profile identified in the PP/Azurite survey, then that audience is predominantly white (??%), American males (65%), age 56 and older (61%), married (66%), with a bachelor's degree (43%) or higher (32%), slightly to very conservative (56%), with annual income of $100,000 or more (41%), and working full-time (81%). Does PP want or envision a more diverse population to build a "world worth inheriting"? Are there other perspectives or interests currently not represented or under-represented on PP that might be worth considering? I agree that Chris and Adam work tirelessly. (Who says they don't?) I agree that they don't owe anyone an apology re: PP site offerings and functionality. My understanding is that they are always working on improvements, which I and so many others appreciate very much. The search function has improved a bit in recent months. But it and the Forums still lack capacity to produce complete results in any organized manner according to date and topic. I'm glad you're able to find interesting content in the archives. (Is there a tab or link to an archives section?) Thanks again for your comments, MM. I hope this clarifies my concerns regarding PP culture.
It is rather questionable if antifa should be called left-wing, even if they would call themselves like that. Their origen is Trotskyite, and even as he originated as a bolshewist, his following nowadays can be found both in extreme right- as wel as left-wing circles, as well as in the neocon deep state. These people (?) have no problem at all switching from left to right and back.
This “PP culture” issue and discussion was bound to come up eventually with the big influx of new people from a broader section of the milieu. Success (usually determined financially) in an internet business often leads to a change in personality or direction, most often due to a business manager making decisions to optimize income. This place has become a little uncomfortable due to the change in emphasis towards politics. I used to read comments in PP to gain insights on truth, but all this crap about Antifa and who is left who is right etc. is pushing me away. I don’t have time to spend adoring the low spark of high heeled boys.
We have facebook, and tons of public spaces to scream, strategize, plead, discuss, argue, pronounce, teach, learn, proclaim, suggest everything we want to about pro trump, anti trump, Putin, Xi, Abraham Lincoln, Mohammad, Jesus, whose lives matter etc.
Something like 95% of all people are incapable of living a life ruled by reason, wherein “figuring out what is true, and what is not” is a main activity. Only a small portion of people can do this and PP, until now has been a refuge, and for me, the only place I know of where such minds can come together. (if you know of another please tell me) Perhaps Chris and Adam will go with the flow and allow the “matrix to resorb” their hyperspot (sorry cant think of a better phrase).
I hope to have direct email contacts with all of you long time members and recent members who " come here to do the hard work of figuring out what is true, and what is not." If this site gets taken over by those who come here for other things, then we can continue somehow somewhere else. Perhaps we can make our own site or find another one.
This is a healthy issue, a healthy dilemma for the site originators to have. Good for them. At a minimum this allows a bifurcation or addition of a more focused section. Perhaps the “member’s only” section might become a place where only rational truth seekers inhabit. How would you do that? Also, many people are unemployed and/or otherwise unable to pay the hefty members fee to join in the member’s only section every month.
MM-
I asked you the question about China to clarify and make sure, not to suggest you go there. It was my best guess you hadn’t actually had to “eat the dog food” of speech repression, but I wanted to make sure. I didn’t want to assume.
Sounds like you’ve been to a lot of places, all of where you were able to speak your mind. They all sound wonderful, and a good fit for your personality.
Some places - I’ve lived in them - are not nearly so free. You get serious jail time for speaking out on forbidden subjects. You really have to watch what you say.
As a result of my experience, there are things I really value that you seem to take entirely for granted and/or ignore.
Since you’ve never had my experience, it is unlikely that I can convince you of just how important such a freedom actually is - in social dynamics, in culture, in everything. You just haven’t lived it. That’s fine, but it makes debate pointless, because there is no shared context to have a discussion. That’s why I asked you that one question.
I’m sure you know - there’s a world of difference between hearing about something your friend did, and experiencing it for yourself. The human experience is full of examples of this. I’m sure you can think of a few.
I would love to learn more about this. Rootman wrote:
It is rather questionable if antifa should be called left-wing, even if they would call themselves like that. Their origin is Trotskyite, and even as he originated as a bolshevist, his following nowadays can be found both in extreme right- as well as left-wing circles, as well as in the neocon deep state. These people (?) have no problem at all switching from left to right and back.Can you point us to some reading material on the origins of Antifa (either in this thread or private PM)? I have had the impression that the demolition of the US and Western society qualitatively feels (at an intuitive level) similar to 9/11, the Patriot Acts and the surveillance infrastructure. I suspect that it is all coming from the same, or a very similar, sources. Both the mixing of diverse racial and social groups and the fanning the flames of conflict between the groups. It all feels familiar. I would love to know what you are seeing here.
Take a statement like this;
If you assert that everything that the mainstream media calls, "conspiracy" is false, then you are not going to be happy here.And turn it into this;
..... you are not going to be happy here.Sparky, the whole reconstructing of who did what, who said what is starting to creep me out. It's your right to do it, and my right to criticize you for it. As with Sandpuppy's comment above, I think that Antifa needs to be discussed and better understood. Are they some kind of shape shifters? I am immediately suspect of what Antifa is when I see how the mass media is covering for them... the mass media being the voice of the Globalist/CIA project mockingbird deep state;
Agreed. It all feels too organized.
I have an acquaintance with a brother on the Detroit fire department. The story from him, from watching the street cameras from a command center, was that the most violent of the protestors were from out of town and clearly schooled in “protest” tactics. Measured response to tear gas, flanking the advancing police line to attack again, etc.
Wow, lots of opinions here–and you know what they say about opinions…
“Don’t be afraid to have an open mind. Your brain won’t fall out.”
-Nick Russell-
Agreed … the hefty members fee is a bit much to be monthly.
We need some research into finding out which and how many groups are ‘helping’ demonstrators become rioters.
There is some interesting information in this video from a civil rights attorney regarding Antifa. They are not interested in “changing” the system. They want to abolish/burn it down and start over. Smart cookies who use protests to their advantage to create disruptions, distractions and violence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRXdfMG4izs