Great to have more MD’s posting here.
There does seem to be evidence of Zn (+2) status having some interaction with hemoglobin;
https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/146/9/1670/4584899
Plasma zinc has been shown to be a strong predictor of hemoglobin, independent of iron status, in 2 previous studies (9, 10). Zinc may affect hemoglobin via several zinc-dependent enzyme systems involved in hemoglobin synthesis (11) and erythropoiesis stimulation (12).
Plasma selenium has also been positively associated with hemoglobin in studies among the elderly in the United Kingdom (13) and United States (14) and in children in Vietnam (15–17) and northeast Brazil (18). Possible mechanisms whereby low selenium status could potentially contribute to low hemoglobin concentrations include the role of selenium as a potent antioxidant in erythrocytes (19) and in the maintenance of optimal immune function—and thus in the anemia of chronic inflammation (20). Low plasma selenium concentrations also have the potential to compromise zinc status (21, 22) and hence may have an indirect negative impact on hemoglobin by the mechanisms outlined previously.
I will note that most of us have early on decided that we didn't want to be deficient in Selenium going into this crisis. I eat several Brazil nuts per day to achieve this result.
Let's keep digging on this idea regarding Zinc:hemoglobin interplay.. Thank you, Jim
Ted,
I get your objection, but for me that fact that no one died who showed respiratory distress and used Zelenko’s protocol is enough, especially when it is combined with the other supporting “anecdotal” information we have from elsewhere in the world.
There is a solid scientific basis for the treatment and strong evidence that it works. I am an engineer…so it is results that I am interested in, and I believe we now have those. I think the scientific “proof” you want will be forthcoming, but as far as I am concerned, if I get this virus I am going to be taking these meds. Dr. Zelenko is convinced that many of his patients would have died without the treatment and I see absolutely no reason to disbelieve him.
You can choose as you wish, but the potential downside of not using his treatment is so bad, and the risks (and expense) so small, why would anyone not try it?
Bruce
I am curious as to the connection between hemoglobin and smoking as related to this virus. I have seen repeated evidence that smokers are suffering more than non smokers from the virus. Is this related to the lung damage from smoking or the effects that nicotine has on cardiovascular health or is a double hitter? Any insight on the matter is much appreciated cause many of my coworkers (essential business) use chewing tobacco but don’t smoke.
Thanks in advance,
Ryan
They tried to develop a vaccine for SARS, but their attempts resulted in vaccines more dangerous than nothing, because of antibody-dependent enhancement. Yes, they could make vaccines which caused the production of antibodies, but then when the vaccinated person was later exposed to the disease, they had dramatic and often fatal reactions. I don’t know if that would be similar after recovery from the natural disease. Vaccines are always a danger-fraught option because they always depend on an autoimmune reaction and always depend on provoking an often-excessive inflammatory response on the part of the immune system, often vaccine encephalitis.
As to how Covid enters cells, it’s through the ACE-2 receptors on the surface of many cells on mucus membranes, the lungs, and GI system. The virus fits into the receptors which receive them like a key in a lock and let them right in.
We need to be clear about definitions. In Italy a vast majority of the people who died had one to four underlying diseases. So if one dies and one has 4 underlying diseases undermining their system and at time of death they happen to have Sars-Cov2 in their body it is unreasonable to say they are corona deaths. They could have died from a common cold or flu. In order to justify the shut down of the economy and putting half the world population under house arrest, could it be that the decision makers may need enough corona deaths as a justification and thus use a classification that will blow up the numbers ? In my country (Belgium) the authorities also add the supposed cases to the statistics (without any test). In China and Northern Italy many people die yearly from the terrible polution, this year we’ll call them corona deaths ? This is what a German professor has to say about this: “At the same time, the mistake is being made worldwide to report virus-related deaths as soon as it is established that the virus was present at the time of death – regardless of other factors. This violates a basic principle of infectiology: only when it is certain that an agent has played a significant role in the disease or death may a diagnosis be made.” Source: https://swprs.org/open-letter-from-professor-sucharit-bhakdi-to-german-chancellor-dr-angela-merkel/
I am an engineer too having graduated from one of the top ten engineering schools in the country. What does that prove - NOTHING
I hope the hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin treatment works and as I said I would take it if there was a choice between death from COVID-19 and an unproven but promising treatment like this.
As Chris pointed out there are several other promising treatments that have potential. So why do I have to decide on this one now?
Although we would like to believe we gather information first and then decide as detailed in the book How We Decide most of us really decide first and then find the facts that support our conclusion and discard the rest.
An engineer tries, tests, retries, and then tests again.
As far as deaths there have been several in Africa among people who have taken it for Covid as well as several in the US. Not to intrude politics into this but the headline quoted the woman as saying “Don’t believe anything President Trump says” after her husband died from taking it and she was hospitalized in serious condition. However, I felt there was enough blame to go around because the stuff they took was an aquarium cleaner that contained it.
I want this to be true but wanting should not the only basis for truth.
Some of the studies of the alternatives Chris mentioned have already been through mouse studies that show promise. There are several prestigious universities developing promising treatments. Why not consider all and decide?
I am not in either camp the ones who feel the doctor is a hero or the ones that feel anyone who raises any objection is against Trump.
However, for me there is just the feeling that there is too much pushing and selling before any evidence is in. Feels like a late-night commercial for the latest miracle cure.
If that is where you want to go fine with me.I hope you allow me to come to my own conclusions.
All the best,
Ted
@moheli
some useful material supporting the case that we are undercounting: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/04/us-will-cover-up-its-own-coronavirus-death-toll.html#more
We’re not really going to know for a good while yet.
i think you are putting too much emphasis on underlying conditions, as if everyone with one or more conditions is just about ready to die. Think about how many people you know who have underlying conditions. Over 50% in the US have hypertension.
matt
HCQ is getting all the attention, yet without ZINC it does not do much. HCQ opens the door so ZINC can enter and does the work stopping virus replication. If you or someone that you personally know is admitted with COVID19 to the hospital and they choose HCQ treatment make sure they are given a ZINC supplement with it. There are some hospitals that are only giving HCQ and Azithromycin and not ZINC.
@lij-ikul
”If you or someone that you personally know is admitted with COVID19 to the hospital and they choose HCQ treatment make sure they are given a ZINC supplement with it.”
How realistic is this in the US healthcare system? (I’m presuming US.) From what I’m hearing about lots of places in the UK and elsewhere in Europe, if a loved one is taken away with Covid-19, you would be very lucky to even see them before they get out of the hospital, never mind choose their treatment. Is this possible, say, in NY?
(Not a rhetorical question - genuinely curious.)
I certainly agree with you overall Loj… we have for weeks now conjectured that one mechanism of hydroxychloroquine’s action is as a Zinc ionophore. I just want to point out that not everyone who does not take supplements is Zinc deficient, and fact that people’s individual Zinc status probably varies widely depending on diet is likely one of the factors leading to variability of outcome for those studies or patient populations that are not getting outright supplementation. Just my 2 cents…
Ted, I have created a thread here filled with interviews or podcasts or news reports by Doctors who are using HQC with good outcomes. It’s a difficult time to sort through all the noise and determine what is true. Everyone has to make their own decisions.
You said,
An engineer tries, tests, retries, and then tests again.
I really disagree with this... we are at war and need to make decisions fast. Listen to the doctors I reference like Dr. Ban G Truong.. they have used this med before for Malaria and they know that the fears about side effects are way overblown, especially in an environment where people are dying every day.
I know you probably won't do it.. or maybe you just don't have the time, but I sincerely think if you were to listen to these doctors speak in the various links provided, your attitude would change, because you would begin to see a more clear picture of efficacy.
Here is the thread;
https://peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/hydroxychloroquine-vs-the-globalist-deep-state/
Realize please that when you see posts by Sandpuppy in this thread.. he is a highly experienced ER MD. Best regards, Jim
My experience in having major surgery in 2018 and 2019 in the US, is that doctors are still very ignorant about nutrition and are hesitant to do any alternatives. Old or young, just won’t go off reservation. One young doctor I had, the first surgery, at least looked up the supplements and homeopathics I listed, pre surgery, though he didn’t fully agree. I brought things with me the first time and was able to sneak them when the nurses weren’t looking. The doctor did give me what I wanted at the rehab center. The second surgery, I didn’t bring stuff, thinking all would be well. A different doctor managed my case and freaked out at me wanting a magnesium supplement or my vitamin C. When I got to the rehab center, I talked them into my vitamin C. Very disheartening to battle the system when you are trapped in its clutches. You have to have a doctor who is on board with your wishes, hard to do. And maybe have a survival bag of supplements to take to the hospital.
Best is to really beef up your system with what you need day to day before hand.
Doctors are robots today - they are not free thinkers they do not care -people are diagnosed and treated ABC - by FDA … its not a normal level of treatment - I have given up on the medical profession long ago - there is nothing there for me - unless you are hit by a bus - there is nothing there for you. We are speaking USA system