David Collum: We're Headed for a Showdown

In the future, please keep your comments to yourself.  Unless you wish to comment on unicorns, fluffy puppies, or similarly positive but unimportant tangents to the issues we face.
I couldn't agree more with your posts.  You're spot on.  IMHO, PP has become for many, nothing more than a "feel good mental 'spa' "of sorts.  Anything not positive is negative.  It's largely why I don't frequent the site much.  Keep the faith.

I've read through this entire thread and I think that most of us agree that there is a significant risk that our government and those aligned with it could become (and has already become to some degree) an oppressive, destructive and even deadly force in the lives of many of us.  That said, ao, I would love to hear any more details (that you are comfortable sharing) about what you know, how you know it and how much you trust your sources.  You seem to have more information than the most of us.  From your writings you seem to know what you're talking about, but we don't really know who you are.  This can be a challenge since trust is built on knowing people well.  I can understand why you, me and many others keep your identity confidential on this site.  The question is "How can you build our trust without revealiing info you want to remain private?".  I think your post #15 is a good step in that direction. Responding to my request halfway through this paragraph would be another step.
Even more I would love to hear anyone's ideas about the best way to live and act in the face of this risk to maximize the chance that we, our families and communities will get through (as intact as possible) whatever stoms the powers that be might bring upon us.

I like treebeard's idea about starting locally from scratch.  But I'm concerned about how much those storms that may be on the way will make this difficult or impossible.  A big question is "How much will our own government's oppression be disrupted by collapse, however fast or slow it might come?".

I also like Akgranny's mention of Victor Frankl and ao's mention of reality based optimism.  Frankl's gift was the ability to maintain a reality based optimism that got him through the most inhumane of circumstances with his life and sanity intact.  He later attempted to generalize his experience (his book Man's Search for Meaning and other work) so that others could apply it to their situation.

Also, what is the common ground between ao's and rje's perspective?  I think it's more in how you describe the storm that is likely to be coming (at least how you decribe it through your posts to Peakprosperity.com) than in any significant difference in the type of future we are preparing for.  Are either of you willing to try on that perspective, stay in a place or inquiry and dialogue and see if there's common ground?  I would eagerly follow that conversation.



Thanks for the attempt at self-moderation…  I appreciate the energy both AO and Bob put into their posts and I don't think we who "get it" should be arguing when so few in the US even get it.  My reading of this thread is that Bob picked a fight… and I say that as a friend.   
Unlike QB, I would not question AO … he can reveal as much or as little about who he is.  What I do know is that AO has been around these parts quite a while, and his record of posting is consistent, energetic, and of value.  You (QB) seem to be questioning the source of some of AO's liberty-oriented comments.  I would suggest that you tap in to some of the information sources that focus on this aspect of our situation in the US as it is not a focus here at CM/PP.com.  

The best sources I have found, written by very credible sources are;

http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/       Krieger is ex-Wall Street… turned to a liberty focus.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/     You might not like his politics, but PCR lays it out there.   

And finally, for the broadbrush overview;

http://sgtreport.com/     A consolidator of Liberty-oriented news… as with all sources, use your own filters as to what is real, and what is conspiracy… you will find that you need to use your filter more often here than with the other two, as some of the posting moderators are a bit off the deep end, posting BS like Chemtrails articles.   

All the Best,  Jim



[quote=RJE]ao, honestly, give it a rest.
Hey Bob.  You say "give it a rest" but you were the one this morning who jumped in with not one but two posts deriding my post.  I think it was you who expressed the thought that it is (was?) a free country?  So if you'll pardon me, I'd still like to exercise my freedom of speech, while I still have it.
Happy Kwanzaa
"Don't be in a hurry to condemn because he doesn't do what you do or think as you think or as fast. There was a time when you didn't know what you know today."  Malcolm X

This was a great podcast, I enjoyed listening to every word.Like Jim H, one of the segments of the conversation which I focused in on the most was the value of the dollar and what comes next.  I could not agree more that the value of the dollar is gone.  I think about this often and it has begun to become part of my purchasing habits.  For example, as a middle class guy with a child support payment, I don't have a lot of disposable income after the mortgage payment.  Despite this, I have been using the purchasing power of the dollar today to try and help my future life situation.  If and when a collapse does come, I don't want to look back and think that I didn't do enough while I had the chance.
It doesn't matter if I've chosen to buy extra canning lids with what little purchasing power I have left, a couple more ounces of silver, or more canned food…buying THINGS now will make the pain of tomorrow a little more tolerable. 
Constant reminders of this are always helpful.

ao & Bob -
Your personal jibes on this thread have become excessive & distracting to the discussion here. If you want to continue the 1-to-1, please use the PM system.

Normally, both of your public contributions are useful and valued. I'd like to see a return to that normalcy.

Please review our posting guidelines if you need a refresher and keep your further comments germane to the podcast, and constructive. We'll moderate out future content that isn't.



…but ao and I DO NOT see clearly our future. I have said that others share in ao style and beliefs and that's cool. ao and I are bantering our thoughts is all, and offense shouldn't be taken. I believe we are grown Men who have our differences is all. Life moves on regardless of what is said here. He will have no influence with me, he isn't telling me anything I am not prepared for. My gosh, Detroit taught me all I need for my Preparations for the coming new world order but I am not going to give up, not write my congressman or any such thing. I still feel we can have an impact and that is that. Geezus!, am I a minority here? ao has had no positive energies what-so-ever as he doesn't reflect my thoughts even marginally (that doesn't even seem logical to me but…), and he shows no future that resembles any of what we have control over as a possibility, so why even try then?
While I respect that he has a voice I haven't screamed at him. I just absolutely, positively disagree with most his content and conclusions especially when he shares really nothing but secretly gathered black opt dark shit matter. Has he interviewed any sane Folks then or have they all been baaaaaddd? Look, any bum on the streets of Detroit has a story if that's the one you want to hear. Everyone of them were soldiers in some deep dark opts operation somewhere in the world. That's not to say they are not telling the truth though. 
Please, we/I  get this dark side to our government and ao feeds on it because we have easy visuals. It's called FEAR TACTIC based on what? His words and observations? Pallleeeese. "Trust me" he says, ah, no thank you, I don't want to. OK? It makes my head hurt is my reason.
I DO NOT believe at all his rather one sided views, and think him some sort of psychoanalyst. He is one sided, and I say so. I thought a balanced approach was necessary, and gave it as comfortably as I could without it being mean spirited. I am NOT a fan at all though as his approach is to demeaning for my tastes.
His dialogue while consistent is of an extreme nature that I do not share, and I even have allowed that HISTORY be written first but history has already been written because he has had some obscure and sensitive Intel that he can't share or " he may have to kill me " as the popular phrase is often applied.
I have no issues with sides being taken as it applies to any thread, I take no offense.
ao called me naive and I call him a little on the extreme edge of thought as it applies to my visuals of the future. No doubt things will be bad but hand to hand combat with my government and my Brothers and Sisters at arms is a crazy notion are my thoughts. Just crazy, and you Folks don't buy into this bullshit as a rule. Their will be rogue everythings, there are now. Soldiers and Cops, but I have faith they will be addressed because I have seen it addressed before, and this time will be no different.
I guess one of us will be right and the other wrong and as I said I hope it's somewhere in the middle.
No one here has ever consider what will happen when the Woman of this country get sick of what's going on so maybe a look see would help: Levity has its place.
My point with this Video is not a sexual one but showing that Women have strength that has NEVER before been realized as they could throw at the Elite today. Men DO NOT like when Women, their Women get shoved around, and God forbid the children. So NO, I do not agree with ao's central thesis that there's just no point in writing letters to congressman or those sorts of things. Rosa Parks sparked a revolution in this country and God forbid the Elite get too cute.
BOB…and Jim we are friends.

Thanks Jim.  And I would urge QB to listen to you as well.  We have good folks here, including Bob.  Bob may not realize it but I actually like him.  If we met in person, we'd probably exchange some good natured ribbing and get along fine.  But if I see something I disagree with or I think is not fully accurate or truthful or whatever, I'm going to speak up … it's just in my nature … as I think it is in his.  And we can learn from the exchange.
There're only a few things in this world that are really important.  Truth, love, and helping others are things that come to mind.  But love isn't always all smoochy-smoochy, I'll-scratch-your-back-you-scratch-mine.  Sometimes it hurts when it's a truth we don't want to hear but need to hear (and I fully include myself in this category since we're all on this same soul journey together).  Excuse my rough edges but that's just me. 
To answer QB's question more directly, a few people know me here but most do not.  And quite frankly, for a whole host of reasons, I prefer to keep it that way.  As to sources of information, it's been like a jigsaw puzzle … some information here, some there.  I'm not privy to anything special but a lot has fallen into my lap over the years, for whatever reason.  I know it sounds hokey but I can't and won't reveal who I've gotten most of the specific information from.  Some has been professional so there are confidentiality issues, some is from friends, acquaintances, or their contacts and most of them are very private people, as I am.  If I tell the specific employment venue or job description of an individual, AI driven computer searches can find very quickly find out who that person is just through health insurance, phone, and e-mail contacts (and I don't even have a personal cell phone which I carry on a regular basis, don't text, don't use Facebook, don't use Twitter, don't have a vehicle with a black box, etc., all of which are becoming mechanisms for tracking habits, movements, relationships, etc.).  Hence my reticence.
I would urge you to not take anything I say at face value but do your own research.  Personal contacts help fill in gaps but there is A LOT of information online and Jim has give you a start.  Follow the leads and links but don't be surprised if you learn things you'll wish you never learned.  Good luck.        

Sorry Adam.  Just saw this after I did my last post but nothing negative there (I hope). 

Last post was fine, ao. Thanks for helping us get back on the rails.

Adam done for sure so how about a balanced thread from you or Chris. Is it that you believe absolute armageddon or is there hope.
You yourself on several occasions have written it's something we should talk about, such as population explosion, and I assume this topic because here it is provided by you. Others have given their thoughts and it appears constructive. I guess I will have to read the guidelines again.

I think what is happening is allot of pent up anxiety, and the rhetoric is really flying, and everyone is trying to stay calm. Not just here at PP but we can clearly see the nation is about to head into another 2008 type crash and we are coming here to talk. Isn't that what we should be doing? I have these type conversations with many Men and Women and it really helps to get some chills out of the bones. Maybe moderating this and joining in with the conversation would be helpful. You guys seem to have all the answers after all. How about some input then?

Adam, I am NOT being disrespectful but we get this type stuff from our leaders too, just push it aside, no need to discuss anything, and if you do then we'll talk from the floor of the Senate so we don't have to discuss anything with you Folks.

Even in the Podcast the guest and Chris were pretty intense with some of their statements, and did incite a little bit. ao and I have taken this as far as we ever wanted, and were not to terribly rude. Just honest. Others joined in so that's a good thing I think. You're the boss though so I submit.

Respectfully Given


ao, admittedly we may have many things in common (not been my impression though) and I will just let your threads go in the future.

Speaking as a former therapist, I have a suggestion that may help when a thread turns this personal. Rather than comment on another person, try to  make your comments about yourself and your reactions to the topic at hand. We are unique individuals as AKGranny has pointed out and will naturally differ. But we can differ without disrespecting another person's viewpoint in the process. There is a rich mixture of life experience here and I would hate for anyone to hesitate sharing out of a fear of being attacked. In my experience, speaking from an "I" perspective helps keeps things from turning negative and creates a space for everyone to feel heard.
We are all dealing with the stress of the times we live in. Our commonality on this site is in sharing a certain perspective on what is going on. It's not easy or pleasant to know what we know.  How we each process that knowledge and integrate it into our lives reflects our own particular makeup. My hope is that we can communicate about these serious issues without resorting to judging or shaming.

We live in a dysfunctional world. Let's try do our best not to bring it here. My understanding of the intent of this site is in part to find a better way to live on the planet. Rather than seeing our differences as a problem, let's welcome them as part of the texture of the whole cloth. So much in the world is dangerous, why not make this a safe place for discussion and support one another? In other words, "be the change we wish to see in the world". It's something I struggle with in my own life, so I understand  how challenging that can be!

As Bob might say in baseball-speak, let's "up our game"!


[quote=Dave Collum]Dave Collum: I did have this one idea. That is one that people talk about, especially people like you. That is to invest locally. I have this image of investing in local businesses. You pool resources and then you invest in things you can kick the tire on. I pieced this whole model together and I say we will call it a Savings and Loan.
I have given lots of thought to local investments and haven't really found anything suitable.  Has anyone on this site had success (or solid ideas) in this area?

[/quote]I have given lots of thought to local investments and haven't really found anything suitable.  Has anyone on this site had success (or solid ideas) in this area?
I would not be surprised if there is another thread devoted just to this topic alone.  I imagine many of the opportunities have to do with investing in food or land.  There would seem to be other opportunities, depending on the degrees of the collapse.
Tried to put a bit of thought into this a while ago, and I always wondered if making wood pellets locally would be a good idea, particularly here in the northeast.  Even in a world of global warming fears the high temperatures here in Vermont for the next couple days are supposed to be in the teens  Below zero at night.  Anyway, concepts like this one seem like they are worth exploring.

…I have seen so much in my life and have known so many brave people who just didn't give in. These Folks will show up again or we deserve all that we get. That is my overriding thought and belief, that we will show up and have what is rightfully ours.
This is not my story but it rhymes a bit:


Respectfully given


PS: [removed by moderator]

I appreciate your links.  I don't have time to explore them at the moment, but I intend to.  I've done a bit of research in this area before and am probably already pretty much aligned with your perspectives.  My biggest question centers around what to do with this info other than what I'm doing already - build community, develop resilience for my family, be smart about protecting myself and family, gently talk about the subject to the few people who have shown some signs of being willing and able to listen.  Perhaps you have some thoughts on this? 

This has been a very constructive thread so far, learning and growth require edges and I love seeing that this community can skate up to an edge and then self-moderate avoiding the dreaded and useless flamewars that are so prevalent on the 'net.
I think there are two good thread/article ideas in here, one being on local investment ideas and success stories, and the other on the pattern of government encroachment on civil liberties.  Where some might accidentally paint that as a 'Libertarian' position, to me civil liberty belongs to no political party but is a basic tenet of living in a prosperous and healthy country.

That both major parties seem to have turned their backs on the concept for what I assume are a few dollars in the reelection coffers (so cheap, so sad…) is a really disturbing development for those paying attention.

Recent developments in the FISA Amendment Act reauthorization, specifically stripping out any possibility of oversight by anybody for the agencies doing the e-snooping on you and me) and then the FOIA revelation in a Guardian article today that the FBI in partnership with DHS, private security firms, the Federal Reserve and other private banks had fully infiltrated and tracked the OWS movement from start to finish speaks to a level of fear-based controls from DC that are extremely hard to justify in terms of either improved safety or constitutional legality.

That we will never get a proper cost-benefit analysis is a given.  That the Subprime Court [sic] will side on the 'legality' of these moves despite the very clear violation of easy to understand constitutional language is another given.  That Congress will not bother (risk?) amending the constitution so that their new laws and acts will be legal is another given.

What is not yet known is to what degree we need to actually individually fear these encroachments,  I confess to not liking the pattern very much at all.  I value my own liberty but, more importantly, I think living in a country that tries to legislate perfect homeland security and citizen safety even as it brings the exact opposite to countries all over the world seems like a perfect recipe for living in a miserable state of perpetual fear - something I really have no interest in doing.

Just as importantly, there were truly a few things that made this country great, and one of those was equal protection under the law.  Did it ever operate perfectly?  No, of course not.  I am not being overly sentimental for a time that never existed.  But I will note that both the appearance and actuality of 'one set of laws' is being dismantled right before our very eyes and that road is a dangerous one indeed.  

When people lose respect for the laws because some of them are obviously rigged against them, then even the good laws will eventually get tossed under the bus.  I have no interest in living in a lawless society either and that is where our good Senators and Congresspeople are taking us step by step, both by acts of commission and omission.  

The consequences are possibly quite dramatic and I, for one, surely wish that we were at least having some sort of a national dialog over whether this is really the direction we'd like to go.  

Personally?  I would rather live with a sense of being secure in my 'house and papers' living a life of private dignity and against that accept living with a tiny bit of risk that something awful might happen to me or my loved ones.

As I said, there's plenty to noodle on here and it probably deserves its very own posting and comment thread.

[quote=Jbarney]I would not be surprised if there is another thread devoted just to this topic alone.  I imagine many of the opportunities have to do with investing in food or land.  There would seem to be other opportunities, depending on the degrees of the collapse.
Tried to put a bit of thought into this a while ago, and I always wondered if making wood pellets locally would be a good idea, particularly here in the northeast.  Even in a world of global warming fears the high temperatures here in Vermont for the next couple days are supposed to be in the teens  Below zero at night.  Anyway, concepts like this one seem like they are worth exploring.
Both of us contributed to the link below.  Wood pellets sound like a good local idea.

Seems to have exposed more than one exposed nerve in this community.  This was a wonderful podcast which I plan to listen to again.  AO, QB, RJE you are on the right side…I fear WROL and what that may mean for our country as we near more tumultuous times…it is for real as CM cites.  My hope and prayers are for us and that we have the strength and wisdom to take our country back from the bandits; in that respect I have RJE's optimism that maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel instead of darkness.