David Collum: We're Headed for a Showdown

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41

Bob -

 

Is it that you believe absolute Armageddon or is there hope.

Fair question. And a tall order (at least, to answer succinctly - which is all I have time for at present).

I just saw Chris' post. In addition to saying "ditto", I'll add the following:

My observation has been that people, consciously or sub-consciously, choose one of two paths when wrestling with the predicaments we address here on this site. They decide to either start preparing for collapse, or preparing for life after it.

(I suppose there's a third option of "ignoring it altogether" which 99% of the populace appears to fall into. But I'm referring to the folks willing to actively engage with this material)

I can't fault those who focus on collapse. About how bad a state things could devolve to. I have good friends and close family members that are in this camp - they're primarily motivated by protecting the safety & security of their loved ones, and who can criticize that?

Certainly, there are lots of flashing indicators that we risk systemic failure in many areas, and have a populace that is ill-prepared for the rude reality-check awaiting it. I think we are years/decades past the point where, had we taken prudent measures (which we didn't), we could enter the future on a pain-free glide path. So, I do think temporal and geographic flashpoints of unrest are inevitable.

How bad will it get and on what scale? I have no idea. My thinking is that the more people we can wake up  & engage beforehand through movements like that here at PeakProsperity.com, the more informed action we can enable them to take now – the less severe our self-inflicted wounds will be.

Personally, I choose to focus on "life after". Whatever changes the future may bring with it, I'm highly confident the sun will still rise, gardens will still grow (if tended), and babies will be born. I share Chris' vision that there are models for living well (very well, IMO) in this future, grounded in sustainable practices that respect our planetary resources and our relationship to them, as well as our relationships to one another. There's a very good reason we re-branded this site Peak Prosperity.

I believe that the resilience core to our approach will help those who are focusing on the long game now increase their odds of making it through whatever interstitial turmoil we might experience on our way there. By no means are we closing our eyes to the threats collapse may bring - we're deciding not to let them take up our entire focus. And the long-term skill sets that we're developing now should also serve us well in the near-term, if called upon to by systemic strife.

Bob, I hope this answers your question at the high level. I'm happy to elaborate further on more specific areas if that would be helpful.

Nate -

 

I have given lots of thought to local investments and haven't really found anything suitable.  Has anyone on this site had success (or solid ideas) in this area?

I agree that models for sustainable local investment opportunities are a huge and critical component of the solution set a better future requires. It's something I've been giving a lot of thought to, in terms of how this site could play a bigger role in highlighting good models and matching local entreprenueurs with willing capital.

No hard decisions made yet, but we'll be open about them once they are.

In the meantime, those interested in this topic may want to revisit these past podcasts/articles which we're created to advance the local economy discussion. In particular, Francis Koster toils tirelessly at TheOptimisticFuturst.org in cataloging  positive-ROI local investment models in hopes of identifying and spreading best practices. Perhaps we'll have him on again soon as a podcast guest.

  • https://peakprosperity.com/blog/francis-koster-finding-local-investments-pay-you-your-community/55432
  • https://peakprosperity.com/insider/79491/why-local-control-best-way-preserve-wealth
  • https://peakprosperity.com/blog/charles-hugh-smith-why-local-enterprise-solution/61547
  • https://peakprosperity.com/podcast/80255/craig-wichner-new-model-investing-farmland
42

Jesse's post this evening has several elements that are very relevant to this discussion.  On one hand he reminds us just how bad/dark/violent it has gotten in the past by referring us back to the dying days of the Nazi empire.  Are we headed for something as bad as Nazi Germany?  Who knows, but it has happened before and it can happen again.  In fact, we are on a path which makes that kind of nightmare a very real logical possibility (among others).  Jesse's remarks set up a 27 minute Chris Hedges interview in which he discusses many of the issues addressed by this podcast and discussion.  I heartily recommend it to you.  Some of you may not like what Hedges has to say about "positive thinking" at about the middle of his remarks.  All in all, though, very thought provoking.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2012/12/empires-of-illusion-and-credibility-trap.html

Tom

43

…hear. That to even contemplate arms against my neighbors is a bit much but then again, it usually is the ones closest to you who are the perps. I hate it, I really do. Then again, what are you/me/us suppose to do but prepare for everything, and that is overload frankly. The intensity is all going to rev up in the next few months and the good Folks out their are going to want their pound of flesh if these shenanigans stay the course. These politicians are not understanding things at all. It is not hard to imagine people getting hurt because they are afraid and take unnecessary means on someone who just knocks on their front doors, at home as they cower in fear. We don't want to inflame this so it is best to defuse it are my thoughts but I'm not really good at that to someone behind the blue screen as much as I am in person. False bravado I'm guessing. I think it best to be positive and sure than to be over reactive and murderous.I don't know what rule of law you Folks have lived under but cops are not the "perfect creatures" some would believe. They are NOT perfect citizens at all, and that is just fact. Who here doesn't think they have too much power? Nor has our politicians been stellar EVER or our FBI been so squeaky clean, so I don't even care about that dyed in the cast crowd, I can avoid them. However, when you steal earned Social Security after these Folks see the MF Global crap, and Congressman raises as Obama just gave them. You are really asking for an eruption and rightfully so from those who played by all the rules. 
We are asking for whatever comes, and radicals this angry mob will be called, and the people will understand the sham being played out on them, and if history is any indication then I expect a very serious revolt especially since the crowd will get instantaneous messaging. and if the Internet or testing, and such things are shut down then God forbid. really, again the powers that be can't understand what this would mean.
I hope we crash and burn, and start over. It is just time. Hopefully, the rule of law is re-established with the good cops and good Folks in command again. Enough.
Regards
BOB

44

When Jim H says…

"When the bankers tell you that they don't want your money...that capital can now be created effortlessly within their system and that your savings are not needed (have no yield)... then the game is already over.  Sure, you can still buy stuff with your money, for now.. but the writing is on the wall... the dollar is worthless.  Once you realize this, there is no turning back.. you will relentlessly pursue the aquisition of real assets and invest in yourself and your own resiliency."
I could not agree more. So, Nate?  "Invest" in what Dr. Chris invested in: things that will make your life more frugal. Dr. Martenson mentioned his best investments:
"...the best investments you can make are in yourself. My best investments this past year were a solar hot water system and insulation, both of which are going to have triple-digit returns in the first case and high double digit returns in the second case. I am investing in myself in ways that minimize my future cash flow."
And that's what we did, too. We invested by repairing an exisiting solar hot water system by replacing a cracked roof tank, and invested by adding Eco foil reflective inuslation in our attic. In previous years we invested in an airtight woodburning stove (fireplace insert) and a solar-powered attic fan. Since we live in a hot climate we also invested in screen doors and got all our window screens repaired or replaced. We even "invested" in insulated window shades, a closeline, and a cat door so our garden mouser cat was not making us heat or cool the great outdoors every time she wanted in or outside. And we are putting in a screened-in outdoor cooking/dining/sleeping area with the goal of weaning ourselves off the A/C.

We have, like most American Southerners, a heat pump for heating and cooling. Our elecricity cost per kilowatt has skyrocketed, but because of our non-tradtional "investments" our electric bill has stayed the same or gone down, even though an extra person started living here.

Other categories of  non-traditional investments include things like water and food. We invested in a well, and are planning to invest in a whole-house filter and get our water for close to free. We invested by starting a big square foot garden (raised beds), by planting fruit trees/bushes/vines, and by learning home canning. And are going to "invest"  by building a chicken coop.

I took the money out of my IRA to do all this. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. The IRA was breaking even. The woodstove ($4,500 after rebate) and summer cooling investments ($1K) are yeilding $700 a season so far, and will do so for at least 25 years, totalling at least $17,500 in today's dollars - much more when we stop using A/C. The garden start-up cost $700 ($200 for renewable seed, $30 for a truck full of compost, lumber for raised beds, hardware cloth, trelises, saplings, etc) and is so far saving us $700 in store-bought food a year. That savings will only go up as the fruit trees, etc mature: of the hazelnets, olives, blueberries, grapes, raspberries, peaches, apples, strawberries, figs and mulberries only one of two peach trees and the figs are mature.

Once we set up the whole house filter (building it ourselves for a couple of hundred bucks) we will save what is currently $38 a month on water. Note: our water bill went up 10% a year for the past three years. Can you see why water resiliency is an investment? I could go on and on.

Invest in resiliency. Invest in food, water, and energy-efficiency.

45

Here's the art of possitive thinking taught by the best:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQIVslZIMXI

Armageddon be damned!

46

This has been a good healthy discussion.  I guess I mention this now because tomorrow is New Year's Eve, and I may not have access to the internet for most of the day.  Thoughts of safety and calm go out to all.  I want to thank folks for the discussions and the community.   Good luck in 2013 everyone.
 

JB

47

.
…from my now best friend stalker. To me he sounds a bit Alfred Hitchkockish. Enjoy:

" I know it's tough when you're confronted with the truth and have to face your true self but the time to work on addressing deficiencies is now, before the real pressure is on.  It's all about emotional stability and balance.  False bravado and a hot temper won't do it at crunch time.  If I see you at the car show, I might say hello but with your attitude, I wouldn't be inclined to go out of my way to meet you.  Not until you grow up a little.  Here're a few things that might help to get yourself under control.
http://www.chenghsin.com/chenghsin-main.html
http://www.russianmartialart.com/main.php?page=article_info&articles_id=48&osCsid=a977df05cf79cea66069fa4e3af70d82
http://www.russianmartialart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4041&sid=4a974922ade490935f2820add8c9a982
 

You're just angry because you got beat up … virtually.
 
"Here're a couple of other things to chew on.  First, think about some of the things Chris talked about in the Collum podcast.  He would have banned them to the basement 3 years ago.  Now he's talking about them.  Second, think about what this country was like in 2000 and compare it to now.  Did you ever dream you'd see such changes occur?  And the changes are accelerating.  That doesn't mean eternal doom and gloom nor imminent (not immanent) Armageddon nor any of the other silly things you seem to project that it does.  There are dark days ahead, to be sure, and I know the thought of that frightens you, not necessarily for yourself but for your way of life and your family and children and their children.  That's why you react so strongly and oppose considering possibilities involving an epic change in the status quo.  But there's also a light at the end of the tunnel.  Unfortunately, with your attitude, I think explaining it to you at this stage, before you're ready to expand your mind to other possibilities, would be just a waste of my time.  But if you're interested, read some books like Evidence of the Afterlife and My Descent into Death and read about Edgar Cayce, Ralph Moody, Brian Weiss, and others.  It might give you a different perspective on things.  The funny thing is, I think I'm the positive one and you're the negative one, lol.  You think I'm afraid but I have no fear of events to come but I think you do.  Otherwise, you wouldn't react as you."

Jesus saves

ao

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imw4mBMMG3I

 

48

[quote=thc0655]Jesse's post this evening has several elements that are very relevant to this discussion.  On one hand he reminds us just how bad/dark/violent it has gotten in the past by referring us back to the dying days of the Nazi empire.  Are we headed for something as bad as Nazi Germany?  Who knows, but it has happened before and it can happen again.  In fact, we are on a path which makes that kind of nightmare a very real logical possibility (among others).  Jesse's remarks set up a 27 minute Chris Hedges interview in which he discusses many of the issues addressed by this podcast and discussion.  I heartily recommend it to you.  Some of you may not like what Hedges has to say about "positive thinking" at about the middle of his remarks.  All in all, though, very thought provoking.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2012/12/empires-of-illusion-and-credibility-trap.html
Tom
[/quote]
Thanks for the excellent recommendation Tom.  Chris Hedges is one of the most eloquent people out there on these issues.  When I read "War Is A Force Which Gives Us Meaning" a number of years back, I was awestruck by his writing abilities.  I look forward to reading this book as well.
Regarding Nazi Germany, as I mentioned in another post, I've recently been reading about Hindenburg, von Schleicher, and others and how Hitler transitioned to power.  The parallels to our present situation cannot be ignored .  I've also been reading about such things as Sondergruppe R and, likewise, the parallels with such things as our CIA prisons is fascinating.  Overall, the political maneuvers and Machiavellian scheming were simply astounding to me. I have pretty good strategic thinking abilities but I would feel like a babe in the woods dealing with these people.  And we're seeing similar diabolical political maneuvering in this country today but with the added threat of technology that is orders of magnitude more difficult to resist or oppose than what existed in Hitler's day.  I remember reading how when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, their secret police were rounding up enemy civilians in certain occupied territories who could present a security threat within hours … all with simple paperwork, no computers.  It's chilling when you realize how much faster they could function nowadays with technology.
 

49

…please, the Jack boot is not our future. Honestly, this is just nuts, it is. Hard times are hard times, and it isn't the ends of time. If it is then it is. I am done here as I just will not be bombarded with this any longer.
Mentally I am quite solid unless of course my optimism is not quite yours.

Just do your Preparations, be Resilient, and share with Folks when things turn as some of you expect to the extremes. Never, ever, go it alone, you will need strength in numbers. Gauranteed.

Arthur I will miss you Brother. Jim H, good luck in Costa Rica if you end up there. Me, I'll be right here or in Northern Michgan depending on the ends of time thing. Canada just across the bridge for Golf with friends too, and to pick up some stash when necessary.

No one person is chasing me away just the negative energy of the doomsday folks.

I wish you all well.

Respectfully given

BOB

50

[quote=Wendy S. Delmater]Invest in resiliency. Invest in food, water, and energy-efficiency.
[/quote]
Hi Wendy,
I have been aware of energy problems since January 1974.  My preps have been proceeding at a low level since then. In 1987, weeks after the stock market crash, my wife and I purchased 10 acres in the San Joaquin Valley.  We picked the location based on "community", climate, wall-to-wall farmland, an agricultural based economy, ground and (generally) abundant surface water.  At the time our electric supply was about 50% hydo.  My preps are essentially complete.

My post was aimed at preparing for life after a collapse.  I have really kicked tires on some local opportunities.  A local dairy needed capital - friends in the business indicated negative cash flows were torching the small operator.  Beef feedlots were another opportunity - talk about opaque!  Several individuals have asked about planting grapes, cherries, and  month ago almonds on our property.  A 20 year commitment to a permanent crop at this time makes no sense to me.
Opportunities seldom come labeled.  I wanted to tap into the PP braintrust for ideas I might be missing.
Nate
 
 

51

[quote=ao][quote=thc0655]
Jesse's post this evening has several elements that are very relevant to this discussion.  On one hand he reminds us just how bad/dark/violent it has gotten in the past by referring us back to the dying days of the Nazi empire.  Are we headed for something as bad as Nazi Germany?  Who knows, but it has happened before and it can happen again.  In fact, we are on a path which makes that kind of nightmare a very real logical possibility (among others).  Jesse's remarks set up a 27 minute Chris Hedges interview in which he discusses many of the issues addressed by this podcast and discussion.  I heartily recommend it to you.  Some of you may not like what Hedges has to say about "positive thinking" at about the middle of his remarks.  All in all, though, very thought provoking.
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2012/12/empires-of-illusion-and-credibility-trap.html
Tom
[/quote]
Thanks for the excellent recommendation Tom.  Chris Hedges is one of the most eloquent people out there on these issues.  When I read "War Is A Force Which Gives Us Meaning" a number of years back, I was awestruck by his writing abilities.  I look forward to reading this book as well.
Regarding Nazi Germany, as I mentioned in another post, I've recently been reading about Hindenburg, von Schleicher, and others and how Hitler transitioned to power.  The parallels to our present situation cannot be ignored .  I've also been reading about such things as Sondergruppe R and, likewise, the parallels with such things as our CIA prisons is fascinating.  Overall, the political maneuvers and Machiavellian scheming were simply astounding to me. I have pretty good strategic thinking abilities but I would feel like a babe in the woods dealing with these people.  And we're seeing similar diabolical political maneuvering in this country today but with the added threat of technology that is orders of magnitude more difficult to resist or oppose than what existed in Hitler's day.  I remember reading how when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, their secret police were rounding up enemy civilians in certain occupied territories who could present a security threat within hours … all with simple paperwork, no computers.  It's chilling when you realize how much faster they could function nowadays with technology.
 
[/quote]
Another thank you, Tom, for the link. A person who ignores Chris Hedges does so at his own peril. His experiences, his critical thinking and his ability to communicate in both spoken and written word make an amazing package.
ao,
Chilling does not do justice to the apparatus that has been put in place. So much of it is right in the open or at least available with only a bit of investigation. It is amazing to me that so many choose to ignore the signposts and at least put these things on the list of potential outcomes.

52

…will send them strong delusion that they would believe the lie"  somewhere in the new testament
 

more on topic esp. the aftermath. fiber production and small scale milling, i reeally like this http://bobwhitesystems.com/ i would be in small scale dairy however, the VDACS gestapo makes it a virtual impossibility in Virginia. there was a member here who contacted me years ago,in PP's infancy about the small scale custom combining of grain for groups of farmers. there is alot of potential there to include the milling/degroating etc. of the grains.

I think i might be on the wrong thread, robie

 

53

I am still here, Bob. in my yacht . I have to catch a plane tomorrow to get to work. This I phone does nothing for my typing speed. Good Luck in 2013. It is already the new year here. The fire truck has just gone past to fix a fireworks issue .

54

…there is absolutely no way a 6x (wheeler) full of troops is going to show up at your home, slap a star of David on your chest and march you off to some fenced in yard. That Folks is a delusion and that is that. Really, get a grip.
Have any of you been a soldier? Have you even had to fight? Do you know how to defuse any sitution when a real Man is serious about your silliness? I think most of you have played to many video games. Not the same thing by the way.

What some of you are saying is that everything you write, say or are involved in will be so significant that some Gestapo type secret police are going to come to your home in the dark and cart you away. Really!

News flash, what is so different today or the last 100 years that has changed? Hell, this has always been the case, and is not some new revelation Folks. Truth is, none of us have a problem with this, so glad it didn't happen to us. "They must be bad guys" would have been the neighborhood gossip.

I think needlessly too many are over reacting and that is just irresponsible. Protect yourself is always a good idea but to promote an ideal that is never going to happen to the masses is just crazy.

Here's how it;s going to play out:

We will have a serious reset, then we will get inflation or at the least a serious cash flood from the Fed as had occured in 2008, and I suppose we will start to see this Inflation when the worker gets more cash to spend or even more credit. I am not clear what mechanism will cause the M2 money supply to actually move about the economy, and how the ever higher Oil price will rob the economy of money moving about but that will have to be observed. What is apparent is the good Folks are paying down Debt, they cannot get or do not want more credit. The workers are not making more money but less. So Inflation appears when then? I follow Shadow Stats and Williams does a great job but where the hell is inflation?

I do not pretend at all to be expert at anything, and this is more a subject for Chris but we have spent Trillions into our economy, and all that cash is sitting, and not doing anything. Everyone presumes it will but my guess is that is a long way off. We'll see, and have time to really button up our home front when this starts to happen, money being moved through the economy that is.

Jim H. is right, when the bank doesn't need deposits to run their business then something is wrong. The banks don't need the deposits because no one wants credit, and they won't lend anyways. It doesn't mean the banks won't never require deposits. They haven't abandoned the idea, it's just it probably costs them more to manage these accounts than they make in return on that deposit. No mystery there.

I had a very thoughtful conversation with a friend and we think the last three months with the election, Fiscal Cliff and Debt Ceiling is cause for so much uncertainty, and my observation is that the doomsayers will come from everywhere to hark their scare tactics. On Que here they are. 

I don't see Chris panicking, he always is thankful for the time we have had, and I don't sense a doomsday feeling from him. I do see or hear that he is willing to wait and react as things unfold but to determine we are Nazi U.S.A. is such a large step, and frankly silly. We'll see.

My hope is you gun ho types have to dust those extreme weapons of yours, and possibly clean them if you ever do practice enough these new weapons.

Everyone has their experts, their Nostradamus's type that can see the future clearly. Eisenhower told the tale long ago. Military Complex has too much power and will always have too much power. They will not however turn on the citizens and kill us all, they just won't.

Regards

BOB

55

…Like Chanos are still investing in the world economy. They have maybe 10% in physical Gold and have cash on the sidelines waiting to take advantage of this next leg down. Why is that? I don't think it's because they expect the Nazi U.S.A. to appear anytime soon. Get a grip, and some of you are frankly irresponsible and somewhat over reaching.
Regards

BOB

56

…what David Walker our ex-comptroller general has to say, and people like Jim Grant to understand what needs to be done and will get done. IMHO
These Folks and many more rational thinking Folks will rule 2013 and times will be tough but NOT unimaginable as too many anticipate here. I agree with Wendy, become more Resilient, save money and prepare a future that conserves all resources and your cash.

Regards

BOB

57

[quote=RJE]…there is absolutely no way a 6x (wheeler) full of troops is going to show up at your home, slap a star of David on your chest and march you off to some fenced in yard. That Folks is a delusion and that is that. Really, get a grip.
(…)
My hope is you gun ho types have to dust those extreme weapons of yours, and possibly clean them if you ever do practice enough these new weapons.
[/quote]
Bob, I am not sure why you see it as necessary to include only two possibilities as outcomes, one being  that the US goes full on Nazi Germany and the other being there's nothing to talk about on this topic.  I see them as anchor points for each end of a spectrum.
The sad fact is that I am already cowed by the police state in which I live.  I don't talk back or resist the TSA folks at the airport, such as seeing them grope some kid or granny which is just patently ridiculous and has nothing at all to do with actual air safety, because I know that many of them revel in making life unpleasant for mouthy travelers because that's a power they have and like to exercise.  
I would not put myself out in front for the OWS movement because I know that those folks all have massive files created around them by various acronym agencies of the US government.  
I will never attend a peaceful demonstration because I have no interest in being tear gassed, cuffed, booked, or beaten because some police/agency plants provoked some fake violence to get things interesting for all of the SWAT outfitted police ready and itching to 'do something.'.  Those are all very regular events and that cannot be denied, only ignored or overlooked.  Peaceable assembly now comes with serious risks in this country.
I already watch what I say on the phone very carefully because I know, for fact, that all phone calls are recorded and run through semantic parsing algorithms to detect key words and phrases.  I have no doubt that should the state ever want to make a serious mess of my life they could drag out all of my past electronic communications and present them as evidence.
With this reality of tracking and snooping, which goes much deeper than I have described, we already have a chilling effect on participation and open disagreement among many citizens.  I am actually uncomfortable even typing this, so this is a very real effect for me.
This is not some future possibility, it is already here today.  We are already somewhere along the spectrum between the two points you have set down.
And what happens in a 'democracy' when participation is marginalized and even criminalized at the citizen level?  Well, you find yourself headed off in whatever direction the rule-setters decide is the right one.  
Maybe this is of no consequence because the decline of the empire will gut the resources and ambitions of an over-reaching state apparatus before it can really go too far, or perhaps not.  I really don't know at this point.
I do bemoan the lack of citizen engagement (and curiosity) on many very important topics and I therefore bemoan every article that illustrates some new government program to snoop more quietly and deeply than before, and with no oversight bodies or avenues for challenge, because to anybody even partially awake the message is clear; we are watching you.
Now, before we go all the way to thinking of something as unthinkable as armed conflict within our borders, there are a dozen concepts and questions to address first, such as:
Is the lack of individual privacy really a cause for concern?
Should we be petitioning for oversight bodies, boundaries and clear penalties for those who might abuse an awesome power (as it surely will be)?
How will we know if things have gone 'too far,' where is the bright line?
If such pervasive snooping is now the new normal, what should we be doing in terms of our communications?  Or not doing, as the case may be?
Are there any states that seem more likely to side with their citizens and protect their rights?
To me, our information technology has progressed a thousand times faster than our cultural ability to adapt and define and, given that information is power, that governments have stepped merrily into that gap to seize the power is just what anybody would expect.  So there are no surprises here, even as there are mounting concerns.
In closing, what I mean to say here is that I don't want to shut the conversation down because it has been framed as having only two distant possibilities and that people have to select which one they believe in more;  one being that everything will be just fine and the other being Nazi Germany.  It's far more nuanced than that, it's a new world, and we have to weigh issues that have not been encountered before.
 

58

Hi Robie,I do not think you are on the wrong thread. We might need a new forum to discuss local investing.
The big challenge that I think is common to all of us is the endless government bureaucracy that puts miles of red tape in front of any small scale initiatives. This causes grief for small start ups especially in the field of agriculture.
A couple of examples from here: two friends on a small farm up Island have goats (that is one of their babies I am holding in my profile picture). They have tried a number of ways of selling goat milk, and are currently trying to set up a home based business selling home made goat milk gelato. It is fabulous stuff! Well, if you saw the hoops these two have had to jump through getting the appropriate permits and licenses…it is insanely ridiculous. In other areas, people with free range organic chickens want to be able to process and sell the birds themselves at farmers marktets. Nope. Gotta go to a federally sanctioned slaughtering plant. There is no profit potential with this method, and in fact, compliance with such rules make it a losing proposition.
The bureaucracy is forcing an underground market, as it is doing all over the world. I hope the coming financial reset also sees an end to the BS red tape. If not, underground barter will be the name of the game.
Jan
 

59

Arthur, so good to hear from you. I need a break plus my eye is fading and I need some work. I expect to be back but I really hope I can stay away for a bit. I am addicted and just want to step back and breath for a bit, quietly. Although I think I have a few days subscription left and will behave myself but I need to get across that the future isn't a total cluster fu.k. It will appear that way I'm sure but not to the point some Jack Boot Nazi foot  print is left on my back. I can't believe anyone sees this as our future. Talk about extreme views, holy shit. Just nuts are my thought. If you see this as our future then OK, don't agree. but I still dig you my friend.Actually leaving the planet has better odds than that silly conclusion.
Arthur, I really have lived vicariously through you and love to sail myself. Well, actually I like sitting on my ass and letting the captain sail, and I like my 2 finger whiskey and ice (just one). Be good Arthur and I'll see you soon.
Happy Sailing Arthur and to you and your family, Happy New Year
BOB

60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTXNaeDEan0
Catherine lays this out pretty well, taperworm economics is a great phrase that she uses to describe the system.  Wendy has done a great job of covering things on a personal level.  Maybe this is beyond what PP is can do, perhaps Adam of Chris, you know of a local group that connects local investors to local businesses. If anybody knows of who is of anybody who is doing this in the CT/MA area, please let me know.  The threats have never been greater, but at the same time the opportunites are just as great.

The really wonderful thing is that all you need to do is change your lifestyle and move your money, there is still time. These are all things that we have the power to do.  If you are not familiar with Catherines work, I would encourage you to watch the video.  Great compliment to what PP does.

Our solutions are LOCAL and PERSONAL, with that we can really change the world.

In regards to retirement, maybe we need to stop dreaming of being a useless burden the last third of our lives on the next generation.  Take care or your parents and raise responsible children, it's the best pozzi scheme out there, it's called culture.

Great job of dealing with the conflict that arose hear in this thread, compliments to all involved.  All we have is one another, we are each others most important asset.

Happy New Year.