Thank you Chris for expressing my exact sentiments far more eloquently than I could have.
…and to share in line with your always positive outlook I will share this. My wife and I are about to close on a partial ownership in a co-op (for lack of a better term) to a farm of an older farming family near our home and just up the road from our small farm (6 acres) that we moved from. On this farm (same family 133 years) are all the apple, cherry, pear trees, and all the berry bushes and so many other perennially growing fruits. What we are doing and will pass along to other folks is to join this co-op with us as only time will show the importance of joining with us the ability to gather so much in a consolidated area all that you will need for summer time picking and storage of those things necessary to live on during the winter months.We have two local policemen and their families now and a few others. We expect this to expand as the need will be seen clearly. There are certainly enough fruits and berries to feed many, and the garden would be managed by the farmer. As part of our agreement we will do what we have always done and that is help with chores plus pay the expenses for fuel, and seed. Whatever that expense is we will share in the costs.
This group we hope to get together will be tradesman, intellectual types like accountants and other valuable Folks.
To be short here it is a good plan, we will get our fruits, vegetables, eggs, poultry and meats. We will have a canning committee and all work together to help everyone get their stores in for the winter.
We will share in the security of this co-op as necessary. We don't expect problems but we are not naive to the thought that when hungry good Folks will steal. We hope to feed some in exchange for labor. That hasn't been discussed to the extreme though. It will be further discussed however so a plan is in place well ahead of time.
We are extremely excited about this, and I have learned the importance of all of this here at PP. The farm also has honey, and is where I get a jar or two when I visit. Like Adam I will begin learning about how honey bee's are managed until I get stung once, and then I will gladly shovel cow shit all day as I like doing that anyways.
There is always a way forward and the good Folks out there will find it, of that I have no doubts.
Be good treebeard and a Happy and safe New year to you and all you hold dear.
Regards
BOB
…I find myself reassessing where we are on that sliding scale every time I hear of a new law being passed or amended. No matter how laudably and honorably conceived and enacted a law is, if it can be abused it will be. Witness RICO, conceived as a law to neuter real gangsters, it has been applied to groups far removed from the criminal elemant.Paranoia is often heightened awareness.
Doug
[quote=RJE]My wife and I are about to close on a partial ownership in a co-op (for lack of a better term) to a farm of an older farming family near our home and just up the road from our small farm (6 acres) that we moved from. On this farm (same family 133 years) are all the apple, cherry, pear trees, and all the berry bushes and so many other perennially growing fruits. What we are doing and will pass along to other folks is to join this co-op with us as only time will show the importance of joining with us the ability to gather so much in a consolidated area all that you will need for summer time picking and storage of those things necessary to live on during the winter months.
We have two local policemen and their families now and a few others. We expect this to expand as the need will be seen clearly. There are certainly enough fruits and berries to feed many, and the garden would be managed by the farmer. As part of our agreement we will do what we have always done and that is help with chores plus pay the expenses for fuel, and seed. Whatever that expense is we will share in the costs.
This group we hope to get together will be tradesman, intellectual types like accountants and other valuable Folks.
To be short here it is a good plan, we will get our fruits, vegetables, eggs, poultry and meats. We will have a canning committee and all work together to help everyone get their stores in for the winter.
We will share in the security of this co-op as necessary. We don't expect problems but we are not naive to the thought that when hungry good Folks will steal. We hope to feed some in exchange for labor.
BOB
[/quote]
An excellent example of investing locally. Thanks for sharing.
Nate
…of course all these things as you state are happening and I too am paranoid of these same issues. I will not fly because honestly it takes everything I have to keep my thoughts to myself when children, Woman and all citizens a patted down. Just nuts. So don't misunderstand, I see these things too.I do see that the technology is way ahead of the public's idea of its true intent.
We have faced these similar things before in our past and have worked through them as we caught up to these tactics, at least we thought so.
Chris, I understand the lack of involvement and I steer clear myself but we will have to have our stand against these issues, and with so much on our plates now I just think as we check off our hit lists that these issues hopefully are peaceably dealt with.
You have to at least agree that some here are already prepared for an over kill situation, and I get this but going from working things out to armed uprising are two different things.
Just the word Nazi and applying it to our current pathway is a bit much don't we think. Can we first get through the Fiscal Cliff, Debt Ceiling, and a Recession first. Then hopefully some leadership on the other things.
It's overload time Chris, and we have so many major issues that we may be putting the cart before the horse.
I think you stepping in hear and clearly stating your views are very much appreciated but even in your writing it appears there is absolutely no hope and I don't agree. I believe everyone will have to take a stand or we get what we deserve, and it really comes down to "what are we prepared to do". We certainly have to commit to something, leave our homes and protest something. They can't lock everyone up, can they?
If writing this gets me thrown away for good behind some fence somewhere then things are truly bad, and I haven't ruled that out but then again I don't want to live like this either.
I used the extremes as you stated because I didn't bring up Nazi's someone else did, and I don't believe in a bed of roses either. I have always said somewhere in the middle is my hopeful place.
Chris, I am NOT so much an idealist as I am someone who at least would like to negotiate first before going all extreme either.
I don't want to shut the conversation down either but we have some very extreme and powerful views here that are in conflict. I personally have tried to bring a "wait Folks, we do have options" and the blow back has been, "no we don't, Uncle Sam is after your ass dude and you are just naive". OK, now this is moderated and set aside. I never thought this conversation was out of hand even though expressing my thoughts were quite pointed.
I love it here at PP and I have to step back because it can be overwhelming to the senses. The easy part is Preparations and Resilience because those are pretty well done and maintained.
Now for the rest of my/our studies it is these issues we must, we must deal with as a group, openly, so we handle these situations as we face them. Better to rehearse here than in the real world under these type scenarios was my hope while picking the scabs of all I could. The response is undeniable, the good Folks here have been engaged, and we policed ourselves, and the moderator has done a great job as well as the community in talking this out. ao and I provided a necessary service (by accident and I still don't agree with him and the extreme view) here as we discussed opposing view points and while we were direct we handled ourselves well and Jim H, and others expressed their thoughts without angering anyone or befriending one for the other. That's good right?
Nothing is Black and White and has never been this way. It's usually found in the grey area where Democrats and Republicans agree and as a people we will catch up some day and all these grand schemes will get tended to but we can't do everything at once. I have to have hope Chris, I have to.
Just one last point Chris and it will surely rolls some eyes. You will undoubtedly get 10 thumbs up and I truly hope I get none but I am here to tell you that many here have my same type hopes, and do not perhaps express themselves because the group has determined what you say is the way forward. While I respect and admire you greatly you are not in control of what may or may not happen in the future, and your views just may be to extreme for what history will write and amend. I still feel everyones voice should be heard in the order it was presented and this floating to the top thing is a dangerous and peer grouped response to perhaps bad advice. No problem though as I read everyone, only respectful are my thoughts.
Respectfully Given
BOB
Bob,
I don't know what world you're living in, but at this point I see a man whose eye's are "open wide shut". Wow. You say you've taken the red pill, but not the one I took.
I think you need to step back from the computer, go into the archives of this site and look at what some of us old timers stated would come to fruition just 4 short years ago. Maybe then, you'll understand what's happened, and coming at the same time.
Face it, the elite families have an agenda to bring world population down. They have an agenda to bring the American Citizen into line with their power structures. They have an agenda to take the majority of paper, and real wealth from the citizens of not only the US, but the world. If you can't see those agenda's yet, then you're being led to slaughter.
You think you know what's really happening, but your constant naive posts shows you know very little.
Again I suggest you take a look at the archives. Search Drkrbyluv, machinehead, ao, V, joe2baba, …that's all I can think of right now. I'm sure some of the older posters can give more.
Back in 2008/9, when the site was just getting going, we debated exhaustively about what was coming, and why. Who was in control, and how the power struggle would transpire. And sadly, not to toot us CT's own horns, but we're WAAAAYYY more right than the people that poo poo'd our thoughts/beliefs/posts/etc…
I hope you wake soon.
…and the reason I have asked everyone here if they ever were in the military is this. I also downloaded a soldiers code of honor. My point that I wanted to address to everyone is the vast majority of us ex-servicemen and I dare say the vast majority of current servicemen are just like me. Defiant of leadership, and this includes officers. we are not mindless and will do our duties, and are required by the honor code to disobey commands that are unreasonable or are against our Constitution. This is a very serious issue with the men/women in arms. The leader of our group was a hardened and battle tested Man or Woman as may be the case in today's servicemen. It is the rule that we all had contempt for our seniors as they first had to prove they were leadership quality, so is why I have no real fear of the military. What I will admit to having fear of are the unmanned things but then again someone is controlling them, and their attitude is more than likely the norm.
We are all probably concerned writing or saying anything. Guess what FOLKS, a file exists on you/me now, no question about this. However, like the J.Edgar days the files that are most important are the ones on our leadership and we all know reasonable Men and Women are dragging their collective feet because their file is really contaminated. So they do as they are told (enter lobbyists and special interests and Elite) This isn't new, news, and it never has been.
If anyone has any doubts about this Professor Martenson's file in at least a couple feet deep as he is a leader. I respect this knowledge and is why I love this Man.
Lastly, I have been the middle man in most every extreme view here (at least extreme to me), and have tried diligently to get us more centrist as I think it is the best vantage point to move from there to the right or left. Chris mentioned in his thread why it is either one extreme for me or the other, and if this was properly read by me I must object. I have if anything tried to pull the extremes towards the middle. This is truth and is why I felt it necessary to clarify this.
I wish you all a safe and terrific 2013
Happy New Years
BOB
…of course this is expected. I have hope, that's all. So call me what you may, and I am not naive but like all you good Folks hope is DEAD so why give a shit Brother.Honestly Chris, this is your site, and this is the extreme you claim I take when again all I have ever done is provide hope. Look what is happening when a single voice goes up against this lot, he gets filtered to the bottom and the rift raft to the top. I'll give Logan a two thumbs up then.
It is just so easy to kill 5 billion people, put Adam in charge. Then take everyone's cash and put Jason in chanrge of that, and we'll put anyone here who wants to volunteer in collecting all the jewelry, glasses, clothing and shoes etc…and stack them on the middle of a warehouse floor on the way to the gas chambers because there is no hope.
Again, I have hope as this dance played out before, and I won't be a part of it. I think we are speaking the same language but I don't say it in the manner the extreme right does. Frankly, this is dangerous.
I do not know what you debated but as of yet History hasn't been written. How would you kill 5 billion people?
BOB
I would share what I know but I cannot. It is always a risk to share things on the internet.
That is the dilemma. That, and to be aware and live in as free a way as possible. It is common knowledge that electronic surveillance is a permanent, forever kind of thing these days, what with data mountains and all. As long as one is not part of the "enemy group" no need to fear until you get reclassified. By Whomever. I and mine have been victim to this and I do not think it is a delusion. Not one bit.
The modern surveillance and electronic security measures are less jackboot, more like an invisible chokehold, like Darth Vadar handed out in Star Wars.
Under the UCMJ you are required to obey lawful orders, reasonable has nothing to do with it. I wish I could count the number of unreasonable orders I followed during my time in the USN.
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/mcm92.htm
Doug
you are right Doug, and it still changes nothing of what I said. The message is easily understood to mean as you have stated.Doug, in all seriousness now, would you ever shoot an unarmed American citizen? How long before you would join forces with the American citizens against tyranny?
I thought so.
I'm assuming you were in the Marines but I really don't know.
Regards
BOB
What we are talking about here is really sad. That any of us, because we are taking steps to deal with an uncertain future, would be of interest to those in power. Sad. Scary. Wrong. Unethical. Makes my stomach turn just thinking about it. It doesn't matter if my file is on the very bottom of what ever list the government/corporations are keeping. It is wrong. None of us should be monitored because we buy extra canned food, extra fishing equipment, more water, extra seeds. I served three terms in the Vermont Legislature.
I currently am a classroom teacher. Seniors, State and Local Government.
I try to alert my students to the reality discussed here, but the next generation seems to be okay with it.
JB
This is the truly disturbing reality. They've been indoctrinated by the culture. I even see aspects of it in my own children who are highly intelligent, well educated, and aware of what is going on. On the plus side, many of the younger generation are aware of things that we were not aware of when we were younger, and are better informed in such a manner as to foment positive change.
Most definitely. Chris Hedges stated it well when he said the Gestapo broke bones while the Stasi broke souls. And what we have now is more sophisticated than the Stasi. When they are building databases of functional MRI images correlated with thoughts in order to literally read minds, there is not much that will remain private.
Great investors but debateable if they are great by other standards. As very high net worth individuals, they can afford to risk 90% of their assets. If they lost all of that, they'd still be rich. Not so for the average middle class American invested in mutual funds through their 401Ks. Plus, these individuals are connected, have considerable information technology backing their decisions, have the trading smarts, and do this full time (and often 12-14 hours per day). The average American does not. The average American also doesn't have sufficient funds to be a qualified investor in their hedge funds. So the comparison is not valid.
In another thread, both others and myself had cited previous examples of how American military (including those military greats, truly great men, Eisenhower, MacArthur, and Patton) fired on American citizens … and veterans no less. But if anyone is unconvinced, let them read about the Combat Arms Survey first given at the time the Presidential Decision Directive (PDD) 25 was being prepared, a directive which surrenders control of the U.S. military to the United Nations:
http://www.knology.net/~bilrum/UN29palms.htm
The psychological assessment characteristics of this survey are obvious. This isn't Target studying your shopping preferences. Also, it is rumored that certain spec-ops groups, such as Delta Force, undergo MKUltra programming … actually, the delta level of Monarch programming … interesting coincidence. And they will do exactly what they are told to do, no questions asked.
Ever read G. Gordon Liddy's book, "Will"? He wasn't military but was functioning in a similar capacity. He unequivocally said that if Nixon would have ordered him to kill someone, he would have done it without hesitation, no questions asked.
How about Felix Rodriguez and a host of others of a similar ilk?
On a more well publicized and verifiable level, do some study on the activities of the 3rd Infantry Division 1st Brigade Combat Team.
"In the fall of 2008, the 3rd Infantry Division's 1st Brigade was assigned to serve as the on-call federal response force under the control of NORTHCOM, the combatant command assigned responsibility for the continental United States. The brigade remained at its home station of Fort Stewart, Georgia, and is training to deploy domestically in response to terrorist attacks or other national emergencies. The brigade will be trained in responding to WMD attacks, crowd control, and dealing with civil unrest."
I'm not certain what a poster means by "code of honor". If the poster is referring to the "oath of enlistment", there are those that will honor it and there are those who won't. Those who won't are the ones of concern.
.
Wow, I leave for a few days and things really heat up. I would like to 'gently' recommend turning off your computer, TV, and phone, and getting outside (I include myself in this). Take your own advice…too much of anything, including this site, is not a good thing (Bob, I love your posts, but how can you be living life to the fullest if you're posting here all day long?). I've been reading Chris Hayes's book "Twilight of the Elites" the past couple of days. He gives a very convincing argument of how meritocracy (another huge narrative) eventually becomes corrupt in its quest to sustain itself. It gets to the heart of the matter…again. He also shows the reverse relationship between what level you are in the meritocracy and the level of accountability, i.e. those at the top have little to no accountability (law doesn't apply to them) and those at the bottom have a lot of accountability. I recommend this book as much as the CC.
Chris, I would extend your comment outward…anytime you write "government," write "government and the powerful private institutions that support it." I don't see a dividing line between the two and the lack of accountability (holding the banks responsible/too big to fail) only supports this.
It doesn't hurt to know where the anchor points are in the extremes, but I also think the world is too big for any institution to police the entire thing (as far as I know they aren't recording our in-person conversations…still the most powerful medium IMHO). Chris, I share your view in terms of the algo monitoring, and I'm sure the algos are setup to flag clusters of concern. Another great read to get a glimpse of how people and institutions/govt react after a disaster/meltdown is "Zeitoun," a book about the aftermath of hurricane Katrina and what happens to a Syrian muslim as he tries to help.
Although many of my posts don't necessarily reflect it, Bob, I share your hope. I remind myself every day, that for every negative piece of news that's reported on MSM, there are millions of positive things that are not being reported because they don't generate ratings.
Ao, I share your concern about our youth. I've been a teacher for almost 20 years and have taught all levels k - graduate school (11yrs/university, 7 yrs/7-12, 1yr/k-6). I try to remind myself that what I see in them is just a mirroring of the adults they are trying to become. Some students intuitively understand what's going on and ask wonderful questions, but they are struggling to make sense of world that increasingly is creating an environment of alienation. Facebook is a prime example of kids projecting themselves out into the "real" world that adults have stressed as THE priority. It also gives them the peer support structure, albeit false support structure, that they are not receiving from their culture. Our educational system is only doing what the private sector is asking them to do…push them more and more toward this alienated technological system.
I feel that PP is not asking us to prep for the "end" as much as it is asking us to get in touch with the real/true "Real." Stick your fingers in the soil, grow your own food, understand/experience this real "Real." It implies less organization, less efficiency, less competition, less of everything if we want to get back to a culture based way of living, a way of living that has sustained humans for 99.9 percent of our existence here on earth.
Happy New Year!
Welcome to the Borg.
I wonder if the pilots of the drones are given a more sophisticated version of the Millgram test? We do want people who are compliant; psychopatic even. With 200 million souls in the US it is a certainty that a cadre of perfect candidates exists. They would even do strikes on each other if ordered to. And then go home to the wife and kids.
Evil is banal. It also destroys itself.
No-one gets to high office unless he has a history. He has to offer the instrument of his destruction to the Party Whip.
Memo to would-be power junkie: Tell the wife that you have to be caught in flagrante delectio. It is the price of her rich lifestyle. There is an establishment on the Isle of Man (or was it Manx?) where the powerful do the deed with Kids. The more rotten the fruit, the more succulent the flavour.
By it's fruit is a tree known.
Bob,
This guy puts much of the situation together in 5 minutes. Just look at all of the actions that the DHS/USGov. has taken in just the past 4 years to squish the citizens. Do you really believe they're doing all of this for OUR security? Do you really believe they've taken these actions, spent all that money, and done all of the training, and aren't going to use it? Just like military hardware, you don't build it, unless you plan on using it.
I hope this helps you understand a little more why so many of us think the way we do.
Peace.
…needs to "skate to the dge and leave Folks alone. I will choose to believe as I do until what you propose is reality or close to it or even seen.Logansrun, my Mom did worse to me when I missed the toilet as a kid.
Listen, you can see what ever you want, and I'll believe what I want. I don't wish to be or will I engage in silliness. My intentions will be to just ignore these attacks and the community member that comes at me this way we all behave. You are on ignore.
BOB
This has been a personal struggle for me so I wanted to comment (for what it's worth)
Chris said:
The sad fact is that I am already cowed by the police state in which I live. I don't talk back or resist the TSA folks at the airport, such as seeing them grope some kid or granny which is just patently ridiculous and has nothing at all to do with actual air safety, because I know that many of them revel in making life unpleasant for mouthy travelers because that's a power they have and like to exercise.
I would not put myself out in front for the OWS movement because I know that those folks all have massive files created around them by various acronym agencies of the US government.
I will never attend a peaceful demonstration because I have no interest in being tear gassed, cuffed, booked, or beaten because some police/agency plants provoked some fake violence to get things interesting for all of the SWAT outfitted police ready and itching to 'do something.'. Those are all very regular events and that cannot be denied, only ignored or overlooked. Peaceable assembly now comes with serious risks in this country.
I already watch what I say on the phone very carefully because I know, for fact, that all phone calls are recorded and run through semantic parsing algorithms to detect key words and phrases. I have no doubt that should the state ever want to make a serious mess of my life they could drag out all of my past electronic communications and present them as evidence.
I have struggled with what stance to take in this Brave New World we live in. Like many of us here, I have been compliant when necessary, have chosen to be uninvolved with causes that may land me on secret lists, and have been self-censoring out of concern for the same reason. Yet, these choices nag at me. If we all stand silent and allow this monster to grow and roam freely, we cannot lament the possible (and I would even say probable) outcomes that will be quite unpleasant for the citizenry. My attitude has been to focus on finding my own freedom (which unfortunately is limited by the realities of the world we live in, e.g. TSA) and building my own resilient life. But I ask myself, what good will that be if (when?) we end up with a government that is caught in the corner (currency collapse perhaps)? This is just to say that I am a coward to keep my nose clean and my mouth shut. Then again, those who sounded the sirens on the National Socialist German Workers' Party or Stalin's plans did not manage to save their respective countries from its fate ... and they, individually, often met their own fate at the point of a law enforcement gun.
Edited by author for typo
[quote=anexaminedlife]I have struggled with what stance to take in this Brave New World we live in.
[/quote]
That, I think, is a very important topic. Speaking out has never been easy. Only in retrospect is it easy. If you are on the 'winning side' then history looks upon you kindly and many people can imagine themselves doing what you did.
If on the 'losing side' however? Ah. Then you are demonized and almost nobody can imagine doing what you did.
We already live in a surveillance state, that much is a given. The real question is what will happen when the state becomes truly starved of resources and commences thrashing about seeking the sustenance it needs. It is here,in my darker moments, where I fear the prospect of war as it provides both the means of directing the final resources towards the center of power and has the motive of deflecting blame away from that same center of power that failed to foresee and prevent that same war.
Where we have survived wars in the past, I now see wars in a world of declining net energy as permanently destructive because what was destroyed cannot and will not be rebuilt due to a lack of resources.
Heck, I am not even sure hurricane Sandy will be fully recovered from.
But there remains an embedded concept in our culture that war can be good because the rebuilding is stimulative…it adds to our failed measure of wealth creation, GDP. But maybe not the next time. Maybe war is just plain old destructive and that's that. Boom, that cathedral is gone. Sorry.
The good news, in my lighter moments, is that if humans suddenly decided to do everything differently, it could all work out fine. Lots of resources yet exist to do things right and do them well. We can easily live in peace if we choose. We can strike a much better balance with the rest of the planet. We could simply begin by wasting a LOT less. We could revere and emulate those who deepen our understanding of subtle complexities and spread love instead of those who amass the most paper promise tickets, er, I mean financial forms of wealth.
So the real question becomes not how do I avoid detection and targeting by a sick system run amok?, but instead how should I be in order to create the world in which I want to live?
I find that I have limited amounts of energy to live in the narrative of fear and loathing that the dominant culture requests of me, but quite a lot of energy for the practices of creating beautiful things and living with gratitude. So I tend to spend more time there these days although I did a full tour of 'Nam, as it were, in order to understand just how deep the depravity runs. That was hard, but necessary.