It’s said that when the Titanic hit the iceberg, many people were having a snowball fight and playing with the ice that landed on the deck. They didn’t get it. In this specific case, they didn’t even want another drink because they didn’t know there was a problem! Rome is burning, and We The People are fiddling. Where’s our bread and circus?
Chris,
You mentioned several times about buying gold. How do you go about doing that? There is surprising very little about how you do that online. The only material I have seen is about the difficulties about buying gold and to watch out for scams but nothing on the actual steps.
There is a stock out there (GLD) that represents XX amount of gold - so it should increase/decrease with the price of gold. I would very much prefer to actually buy gold rather then gold shares.
Anyone know how to purchase gold?
Thanks,
Glenn
There is a column in today’s NYT on the dollar that I think is relevant to many of our concerns:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/17/opinion/17wed4.html?th&emc=th
The writer’s main point is that the dollar has been the safe haven in times of turmoil for a long time, and, as recently demonstrated, continues to be the reflexive refuge for most economies. Now that things appear to be settling down (at least in the eyes of the uninformed), the dollar seems to be continuing its slow erosion. The question the writer poses is, to paraphrase, what other currency can serve as a safe haven? Frankly, there doesn’t seem to be one. So what is one to do? Are pm’s the only refuge?
This is of more than academic interest to me. I have hoped to retire in about six years when both my kids will have finished college. So far, by luck, I’ve managed to preserve most of my retirement fund by putting it in treasuries before the big market drop. That solution seems to be fading fast, but it is not clear to me whether the dollar is in for a quick collapse, or will continue its slow erosion.
The economic talking heads seem to be seriously split on whether we are entering a period of inflation or deflation, and whether the money printing will work. The question seems to be whether Bernanke can walk that knife edge and pull back in time to prevent inflation from spinning out of control.
Although Peter Schiff has been largely correct in predicting this mess, he has been notably wrong on the price of oil and other commodities including gold. They aren’t acting like he predicted, although gold does now seem to be rising slowly as the dollar loses value slowly.
These questions are quite serious for me, as I face the issue of whether I can have a comfortable retirement, or will be forced to work into my dotage, become dependent on the public fisc or find some other way to scrape by. I always kind of suspected that being at the leading edge of the baby boom generation might get ugly some day, but that doesn’t make it any easier.
gfeiner: you are on the right track
There is little reason to purchase GLD if you can get physical bullion.
There is a great deal of talk of physical gold bullion shortages and indeed much of it seems well founded. As far as I can tell, many smaller shops are having trouble staying supplied, but the larger shops in bigger metro areas still seem to have some availabilitly (though a lot of places have a long lead time on deliveries).
I would just google "coin shop" and then type in your city or region and see what you come up with. It might be wise to call the place first to see what’s available and at what price. It is also possible to order coins online. See Chris’s articles in the "Act" section on the menu bar.
If that fails, there’s always ebay…An excellent tool to track the price of precious metals sold on e bay is this website here: http://www.24hgold.com/english/buy_sell_gold_coins.aspx?co_id=0
The site displays the averages of the past 20 trades of all different types of gold and silver coins on ebay. Since there seems to be issues with gold shortages and the COMEX paper vs. physcial gold market separations, this tool seems to be a useful way to evaluate the value of bullion.
Good luck.
Mike
duplicate post deleted. my apologies
Chris,
You mentioned several times about buying gold. How do you go about doing that?
Under the ACT tab, Chris has a nice writeup on buying gold and suggests several dealers. I just made my first purchase the other week - it’s pretty easy and straightforward. Check around as different places have different availability, minumums, and prices. Be forwarned, an oz. of gold is small. I showed one of my 1 oz. Suisse Pamp bars to my daughter and asked "how much?" - she ventured $50! (more like $800), though she was close to the original gold standard value ($32)!
Doug,
I would offer you a few points to consider:
You've been very wise (or lucky) to get into Treasuries at the time you did, but many are now speaking of a Treasury bubble. Talking heads aside, we eventually will reach a point where the Treasuries are not going to rally much higher, even in a deflationary environment. If you believe that we will "muddle through," without experiencing anything extremely dramatic, then I think Treasuries are good.
I think it's commonly understood that gold is an excellent inflation hedge, but I would add that there's another wrinkle. Through the '90s, inflation was low, but gold did not even keep up with it, which tends to mitigate this narrow argument. I would add to the picture that precious metals will always do well in a time when <em>fear</em> is high. Fear can be created and stoked by inflation OR deflation. The worse things get in this country, the better gold should do. If nothing else, I personally can't imagine the <em>inflation adjusted (real)</em> price of gold to drop in an environment like we're seeing.
Also consider: we have a <em>hyper</em> prefix that we sometimes use for inflation. There does not seem to be any such jargon for <em>deflation.</em>
Finally, as Chris points out too: Any paper (or electronic) money that is invested is based entirely on trust in the fiat system and the people that manage it. Let your actions be guided by this principle.
These are my thoughts and opinions only. Hopefully others can comment too.
Thanks,
Mike
As for physical gold,i wish i could help.
I have no problem whatsoever to buy physical gold. I can buy it esy in amount measured in 15.244 gram units.
1/2 unit weight until 10 units weight are available over the counter. When order 100 units weight or more are availabel. I found a large shop that has large quantities available. In normal circumstances it is because of the christmas season. Large orders of gold arrived at the shops about a week ago. After new year it can be quit different.
The gold is 96.5% pure as is the norm in Thailand.
if you really want to have physical gold a flight to Thailand (india/Dubai) might be a solution to get your hands on gold.
I have read that in Thailand it is forbidden to export bullion, but jewelry is no problem. As jewelry in Thailand is mostly made of 96.5% gold it is not really different than the bullion. The price however is a little higher because the workmanship.
I wish i had the infrastructure to send gold to other countries, i would make some money from it. I do it now for some friends and family and that way stay low level and do not attract attention.
Maybe if you search for Thai exporters of jewelry you can find some that send overseas, but i suspect the markup will be high.
Brainless
Recently I looked into buying some Thai gold. Their basic unit of gold is the bhat, not to be confused with their currency unit, also called the bhat. Their coins and bullion are, as I understand it, 99.99% pure. However, a local dealer told me that he and other US dealers deal primarily in the more common gold units like the Canadian Maple Leaf, the US Gold Eagle and S. African Krugerand. (There are probably a couple others I don’t remember) He said that the more uncommon gold units are typically melted down and recast into something else, meaning that you won’t get as good a price on the more atypical gold units. I’d be curious to hear what others’ understandings are.
Doug: I have faith in 3 things, one I don’t push on others, all begin with G’s:
- G_ _
- Gold
- Government screw ups i.e. trying to prevent deflation they will either create hyerinflation by destroying the value the dollar holds
The electronic gold, by contract or by ETF I'd be careful of, there are 2 banks shorting it in quantities that I doubt they can cover, listed to the blurb on the FSN link under yesturday's daily digest for more info on that. Also, not sure, but think I read something about some ETS's leasing gold - so what is in their volt (if my memory is correct) may not be theirs past a certain date.
dealers deal in what they know. a krugerrand is also not 99.999% pure gold but it is mixed with copper. Thai gold is 96.5% and in Thailand very common. I estimate that it is 95% of their inventory. the other is 18k gold and silver.
the Baht is indeed the name of the currency. The 1 baht coin however is used as a weight.
when you buy jewelry 1 baht gold is at least 15.16 grams of 96.5% gold.
1 baht bullion is at least 15.244 grams of 96.5% gold.
If you calculate the pure amount of gold you get for 1 baht jewelry at least 14.6249 grams, for bullion at least 14,71046 grams of pure gold.
You can lookup the prices for Thai gold here http://www.goldtraders.or.th/index_en.php.
If you need to know more about Thai gold i can try to answer questions. I know reputable shops, however none of them do online business.
Thought some may appreciate this…getting away from the gold discussion.
I think almost anybody on this forum will tell you the same thing, WRT their acquaintances, friends & family.
But, feel free to give yourself a pat on the back -
That you are on this site, searching for understanding and answers, in the face of ignorance, obsfucation and blatant deception, puts you (and everyone on this site), in a distinct class of people - those who by a search for the truth, have the courage to face it (good or bad) and the boldness to take action.
Rene Descartes - "If you would be a real seeker after truth, it is necessary that at least once in your life you doubt, as far as possible, all things."
Niccolo Machiavelli - "For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearances, as though they were realities, and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are."
George Orwell - "The ordinary man is passive. Within a narrow circle, home life, and perhaps the trade unions or local politics, he feels himself master of his fate. But otherwise he simply lies down and lets things happen to him."
Plato - "The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs, is to be ruled by evil men."
“We are ready to accept almost any explanation of the present crisis of our civilization except one: that the present state of the world may be the result of genuine error on our own part and that the pursuit of some of our most cherished ideals has apparently produced results utterly different from those which we expected.” The Road to SERFDOM, Friedrich Hayek.
Western civilization was built on concepts of Christian-based “freedom” quite different from the secular, libertarian, autonomous freedom pervasive today. The freedom of the past was fused with a moral integrity rooted in a framework of philosophic and religious absolutes. And from that soil grew the rare commodity of “trust” in the day-to-day affairs of men. Neither today’s “free markets” nor government-coerced markets (Obama, Bernanke, Congress, etc.) will provide real solutions, because none can produce genuine TRUST in their fiat world devoid of absolutes.
DanS,
Am in absolute agreement.
This is why the FIX is not more regulation but the slow hard grind of education - principles, ethics.
Stan
This is not a FIX…it is a mantra. I agree with you on the mantra, but I can guarantee that we will have plenty of disagreements on the structure, relativity, and implentation of this mantra. This is the core conumdrum of society.
Thanks Mike,
I’ll search and check out the link.
Glenn