Bill
thanks for your input. I made mention about placebo, because for every disease process there is almost always a neurological/psychological component. People in a chronically anxious state will chronically secrete catecholamines from their adrenal glands. These hormones work well when being chased by a saber toothed tiger, but have a degrading effect on the body and inhibit the immune system if exposed chronically. This is probably why the people who care enough, but also "don’t really give a sh#&", , tend to survive cancer more often. So ultimately, the psychological state has an impact on the physical state.
When you look at the literature for the treatment of overactive bladder, response rates to the medications are often around 65%. pretty good, right? However, response rates to placebo are usually around 50%. It doesn’t mean that their problem is in their head. They have a real physical problem, but their is a signficant neuro/psychological component. As you can see, medication is better than placebo, but the majority of the response is still probably placebo in nature.
Suppose you have an arthritic knee and that knee hurts. Well, there is no pain unless you have a brain to interpret the pain. the brain’s interpretation of the pain is highly affected by state of mind, particularly anxiety or depression. When I perform vasectomies, I will offer my patient’s a single dose of valium prior to the procedure. this is an anxiety medication, but has no specific effect on the pain receptors. Although the patient’s awake during the procedure, when they are relaxed, their perception of pain is much different than an anxious patient that did not take the medication.
JAG
If in your experience, acupuncture works well in the treatment of either chronic or acute pain, then I think it is well worth it to keep up your practice. I know that a significant portion of doctor visits and medical expenditures go to the treatment of chronic pain states. Even within my own urology practice, I see plenty of people of for chronic pain, including pelvic pain, back pain, guys with "sore balls", etc. Often I can help them out (without the use of narcotics), However, many times there is no identifiable physicial problem and pain is difficult to successfully treat… Perhpas a very usefull skill in the future. Of course maintaining sterile needles in a resource scarce world may be a problem.
Brian
Dr. Brian,
I actually no longer practice acupuncture, having found a much more effective and longer lasting pain relief method called Trigger Point Therapy. No needles required, and it’s easy enough to learn and practice that my 4 year old uses it on us old folk nearly everyday.
In our pain clinic, we have cases of chronic pelvic and testicular pain referred to us by a local urologist on a regular basis.
Some information that might interest you:
A trigger point in the Adductor Magnus muscle refers a cramping-like pain that is experienced deep in pelvis. In women, this referred pain is often mistaken for PMS cramping or symptoms associated with endometriosis, but in men it usually classified as idiopathic. (more info)
Trigger points in the Abdominal Oblique muscles are frequently responsible for idiopathic testicular pain in men.
Most healthcare professionals recognize referred pain from internal organs like the heart or gallbladder, but few recognize that the musclular system is the body’s largest internal organ, and capable of referring pain as well.
If you have any interest in learning the protocol that we use in our practice for these complaints, please PM me.
Best…Jeff
A vote for puting this in the crystal catagory. Very hard to design a controlled trial. (Very smart scam). There are more than fifteen major maps indicating meridians for different effects. Also smart but suspicious. Long evolved scams are still scams. Throw out the accupuncture but keep the placebo.
[quote=JAG][quote=bluestone]
JAG
Even within my own urology practice, I see plenty of people of for chronic pain, including pelvic pain, back pain, guys with "sore balls", etc. Often I can help them out (without the use of narcotics), However, many times there is no identifiable physicial problem and pain is difficult to successfully treat.
[/quote]
Dr. Brian,
I actually no longer practice acupuncture, having found a much more effective and longer lasting pain relief method called Trigger Point Therapy. No needles required, and it’s easy enough to learn and practice that my 4 year old uses it on us old folk nearly everyday.
In our pain clinic, we have cases of chronic pelvic and testicular pain referred to us by a local urologist on a regular basis.
Some information that might interest you:
A trigger point in the Adductor Magnus muscle refers a cramping-like pain that is experienced deep in pelvis. In women, this referred pain is often mistaken for PMS cramping or symptoms associated with endometriosis, but in men it usually classified as idiopathic. (more info)
Trigger points in the Abdominal Oblique muscles are frequently responsible for idiopathic testicular pain in men.
Most healthcare professionals recognize referred pain from internal organs like the heart or gallbladder, but few recognize that the musclular system is the body’s largest internal organ, and capable of referring pain as well.
If you have any interest in learning the protocol that we use in our practice for these complaints, please PM me.
Best…Jeff
[/quote]
And if one still has pelvic or testicular pain of somatic origin that doesn’t respond to trigger point therapy, one can always use joint/spinal segmental mobilization/manipulation procedures.
http://www.maitrise-orthop.com/corpusmaitri/orthopaedic/mo70_maigne_thoracolumbar/index.shtml
And if that fails, sometimes nociceptive reflexes can still be present which respond within seconds to neuroreflexive inhibitory techniques (unpublished and proprietarily protected).
Or how about considering the pyramidalis for pelvic pain?
http://www.webmanmed.com/disorders/disorders_files/musclgd/abdom/14193694.html
Etc, etc., etc.
Or maybe, just maybe, the dreaded … homeopathy for ob/gyn problems (such as was done for my mother). Jeff, try rhus tox sometime on a ganglion cyst and watch it physically disappear forever and tell me if that is a placebo effect. Very similar to using verapamil transdermal gel on a Dupuytren’s contracture. Or use it on a pet and tell me if that is a placebo effect. As I’ve said before, just because their explanation for how it works may be in error, doesn’t mean that it can’t be used to positive benefit. Just so it’s unequivocally clear, I think any scientifically knowledgeable individual would understand that HOMEOPATHY DOES NOT WORK BY MEANS OF CHEMISTRY no more than a vaccine doesn’t work by means of chemistry.
[quote=JAG]I tried very hard not to get involved in this "discussion", but as one of the few people in this community who is actually a trained and experienced acupuncturist, I felt obliged to preach what I have practiced.
In my real world experience, acupuncture is good for one thing, pain management. It doesn’t cure or fix any problem, it just temporarily interrupts the neurological expression of physical pain.
Would this skill-set be useful in a situation where one did not have access to traditional healthcare? Absolutely.
Is this skill set something that a layman can learn from books? I have serious doubts.
Regarding homeopathy, I quit my certification course in homeopathy on the second day, when the instructor stated that the homepathic remedy is diluted to the point of containing no pharmacologically active molecules. As the son of a chemistry professor, I wasn’t equipped to suspend disbelief on that subject.
However, I have a colleague and good friend that is a very successful homeopath. His success has nothing to do with homeopathy, and everything to do with his remarkable personality. I call him Dr. Placebo because he is an expert in the application of the placebo-effect.
Best…Jeff
[/quote]
While pain modulation is a primary use of accupuncture, using it to influence sympathetic and/or parasympathetic nervous system activity is also a useful application.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165183899000909
P.S. Jeff, I’ll give you bonus points if you know why accupuncture to the ear stimulated the parasympathetic nervous system.
With regards to homeopathy, see my other post.
You know ao, when I wrote "I tried very hard not to get involved in this ‘discussion’…" , I was referring to your demonstrated inability to discuss any health related subject without taking it personal.
Lighten up buddy, nobody is attacking your credibility here, we are just offering our opinions for consideration.
My apologies if I offended you in some way.
Best…Jeff
[quote=JAG]Regarding homeopathy, I quit my certification course in homeopathy on the second day, when the instructor stated that the homepathic remedy is diluted to the point of containing no pharmacologically active molecules. As the son of a chemistry professor, I wasn’t equipped to suspend disbelief on that subject.However, I have a colleague and good friend that is a very successful homeopath. His success has nothing to do with homeopathy, and everything to do with his remarkable personality. I call him Dr. Placebo because he is an expert in the application of the placebo-effect.
Best…Jeff
[/quote]
I have a friend who was a homeopath. She always looked terrible, really unhealthy, often sick. She self medicated homeopathic treatments, they never worked, she gave the game away.
Mike
Jeff.
You’re mistaking passion about a subject and a passion for accuracy and thoroughness related to that subject with taking it personally. There’s nothing about any of your statements that was offensive nor did I feel you were attacking my credibility nor did I say anything to that effect. But regardless, there’s no need to apologize and I hope you didn’t take offense to my statements either. But if I come across something that I disagree with or feel could be misleading to others or leaves out some essential information, I’m going to say it.
How about the bonus point question?;-)
WHO Chief: The End of Modern Medicine Is Coming
- by Julie Rodriguez
- March 16, 2012
According to Margaret Chan, the director general of the World Health Organization, this could soon be reality. At a meeting with infection disease experts in Copenhagen, she stated simply that every antibiotic in the arsenal of modern medicine may soon become useless due to the rise of antibiotic resistant diseases. The Independent quoted her explaining the ramifications:
“A post-antibiotic era means, in effect, an end to modern medicine as we know it. Things as common as strep throat or a child’s scratched knee could once again kill.”
She continued: “Antimicrobial resistance is on the rise in Europe, and elsewhere in the world. We are losing our first-line antimicrobials.
“Replacement treatments are more costly, more toxic, need much longer durations of treatment, and may require treatment in intensive care units.
“For patients infected with some drug-resistant pathogens, mortality has been shown to increase by around 50 per cent.
“Some sophisticated interventions, like hip replacements, organ transplants, cancer chemotherapy, and care of preterm infants, would become far more difficult or even too dangerous to undertake.”
Around the world, more and more pathogens are spreading which don’t respond to any known antibiotic drugs. In India, there has been a recent outbreak of drug-resistant TB. And in the US, the CDC warns that a new strain of gonorrhea is on the rise – and it is resistant to most forms of antibiotics. The agency warns that it’s only a matter of time before we start seeing outbreaks of untreatable STIs. (And the fact that sex education in the US rarely warns teens how to adequately protect themselves from STIs probably won’t help.)thank you Matrix damner. This is a very interesting and important topic, which has an unexplored aspect relating to post crash community development. In a world where: a. less movement of foods and people, b. locavore (local food production) c. local determination and control (ie. non-use of antibiotic use in animal husbandry) it is quite possible that local communities can reassert some control over this aspect of their health. An interesting feature which is mentioned occasionally in the literature is the ability to expunge drug resistant strains from a local community partly by encouraging and working with native strains that can slightly out-compete the resistant bugs because the resistance genes require some energy/effort to maintain, and eventually can be removed from a population if the drug challenge is removed and healthy practices restored. In a bankster/government mobster internationalized world this is not possible, but in a post collapse community based (local food, little movement from outside) a community could reassert some control over this parameter. but this requires a science-informed understanding of biology. I think that this will be a new field of practical science for a young person to get into for a great vocation. Community control of microflora made possible by post crash community development. Some hospitals are working on this topic but this could be done on a community level that takes into account food production.
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