Inflation Or Deflation? Here's How It Will All End

MKI wrote:

What makes gold and BTC so different (and thus sparking this debate) is a) gold is used by central banks, and b) BTC is only a decade old and used by few institutions. It is the newness of BTC that makes it so scary for most conservative people (young or old) because money requires widespread acceptance over time a long time (save today, spend tomorrow), and BTC is in her baby steps of social acceptance. It may fall out of favor, or just be replaced by an "approved" version by the TPTB. This has happened to every single currency but gold to date. Most know something like BTC could dominate and eliminate gold. But is BTC really it, and if so, is the time now?
I very much agree with the presence of risk here for these very reasons. Again, that is why 25%, not 100%, of my investible income is in BTC ---- I didn't mean to insult "old people," but I do believe that I see a generational difference in the rate of acceptance of BTC. Kind of like there is with piercings and tattoos.

Chris’ virus coverage and the crypto info has easily been the most actionable & profitable info on this site for me in the last year. Sometimes I feel like the mainstream reaction to the “horse paste” is the same as to crypto. You mean there’s a cure for this (monetary) sickness? And we weren’t told about it? Yup.
MM is one of the main voices that pushed me to actually think seriously about crypto, so many thanks. I’m a Gen Xer, not a Boomer, but his critique of how the site skews is valid and insightful, though I agree his delivery could be more tactful. Good manners are what allow people of different viewpoints to interact.
Adam’s interviews have been good and this one was fantastic. As other people mentioned, there is a lot to digest here and I’ll be watching it again. Also ditto other people: Gromen’s always interesting, but Adam’s interviewing skills are what brings out the best. I’m glad that btc was an aspect of this interview, and would love more crypto focused content in the future if possible. I’m keeping my small amounts of au/ag, but dca’ing into crypto as fast as I can.
I’m biased in my feelings in favor of au/ag personally over crypto, but logically btc seems to perform some of the functions of hard money better than pm’s. I was probably imagining a “low tech, low energy” future (ala John Michael Greer’s 2008 “The Long Descent”). But I now think that is wrong. We may be headed for a “high tech, low(er) energy” future. Maybe we’ll have to turn our thermostats down and not drive as much, but we’ll still be falling into our smart phones all the time. Greer’s 2016 book “Retrotopia” seems to imagine some of this, with it’s vision of each county choosing how much technology to employ and thus how much tax to assess on its citizens. (Great thought experiment, interesting read but not great art.)
 

Gromen has a number of other interesting observations, including about bitcoin and tptb, scattered around the Youtube universe. Here are two I remember catching recently.
1.

Every day that Michael Saylor doesn't get audited by the IRS makes me think that there is at least an element of Washington that has tacit approval of what he's doing.... I know they understand what this is. … Now, why would they look the other way?
In this 6-minute clip Gromen offers a speculative, contextualized answer to the question he poses. It's a pretty interesting viewpoint, imo. (Feb 23, 2021, Swan Signal Live) 2.
Bitcoin is the last functioning smoke alarm that they haven't been able to disable...and it's sending a pretty clear message that most central bankers would find alarming. [If it was just a curiosity] I don't think they'd be talking about it as much as they have been over the last month or two.
Mar 1, 2021 interview on the TD Ameritrade Network.  

drein, Please don’t make this a “PP hates crypto” thing
I don’t think (nor said anything like) that “PP hates crpto”. I commented merely to help clarify the discussion, precisely because I think it very much worth having with smart people who don’t hate crypto.
SP: I didn’t mean to insult “old people,”
Of course you didn’t, I certainly didn’t mean to imply you did (heh, I’m probably younger than you are :-)). But it’s a fact that many, even most, people that are rabid believers in crypto tend to slant young. It makes sense to address all positions to have a real discussion, hence my comment.
To get off of me and onto somebody really interesting, I actually think Luke, you, and I agree on most crypto issues; I’m simply too cowardly or cheap to act on it, like Luke and you have. Kudos to you guys.
What I did find interesting: how Luke framed the discussion about how crypto may or may not have an impact on money itself at the central bank level. These are big times, big changes, and I don’t think we can pay close enough attention to both gold and crypto. Like Y2K, crypto may be the “next big thing” or the biggest nothingburger ever. So I’m here to learn, not exhort.

VTGothic, that 6 min clip with Luke Gromen is incredible. His speculation on how our gov’t may be looking at Bitcoin given the global economic situation, as well as how Luke sees the Gov’t both reacting (and not reacting) to Bitcoin, seems plausible (and mind-blowing). Wow, what a fresh thinker!

actually the market is flooded with fake gold coins. mostly they come from china. i was first made aware of this back in 07 when i loaded up. in anticipation of the meltdown. MMast
Sorry to hear you were wiped out buying Chinese tungsten. That sucks.

I’m thinking over BTC and had a few thoughts and questions.
BTC price follows the stock/flow ratio pretty well. Looking at the price volatility and growth, isn’t it more accurate to say BTC is a speculative asset rather than a store of value and an inflation hedge? The ideal inflation hedge would generally appreciate at the inflation rate, and follow changes in inflation. Real assets (real estate, PM, commodities) generally perform better than stocks and bonds in inflationary periods.
Is gold an inflation hedge? Sort of. It appears to follow the inverse real 10 year treasury rate pretty well. When that goes negative, gold price surges, reflecting movement out of the bond market. At that time, bonds are producing negative real yield; investors would rather hold onto something yielding nothing than hold onto something guaranteeing a loss of principle. When gold appreciates in dollars, people make money in dollars.
What’s the yield on BTC? Like gold, nothing, at least for now. Maybe in the future there will be BTC-denominated bonds. Like gold, the value in it comes from appreciation.
Why are people buying BTC? Is it speculation on price increase? Speculation on having a share of some future currency? Or to use them to buy things? Correct me if I’m wrong, but people are not buying BTC for the sake of using it as currency - as a means of exchange - in the present or very near future. SOMEDAY the dollar collapses and the BTC is worth something; SOMEDAY the network is widespread and it is as easy to purchase things with BTC as it is with dollars.
For these reasons, is it fair to say BTC investment is more speculation than true inflation hedge or hard currency? When I talk IRL to BTC investors and miners, they speak in terms of speculating on future price. That’s ok, I hear the same from many PM investors. But I don’t think in the near future about taking an ounce of silver to the grocery store. Someday maybe that happens, or I convert PM to some new currency post-hyperinflation.

@Redneck_Engineer: my thoughts toward your questions.
When the Florentine florin became the international settlement coin in the 14th and 15th centuries, it did so because it was recognized as a reliably consistent unit of measure over time – stronger than its competitors. As a major currency, it was both a payment rail and a store of value. The one did not preclude the other.
However, the florin did not become the international standard in a year, nor a decade. In fact, it took well over a century for its virtues to spread across the trading nations of the time, and for a fully developed banking and remittance system to mature around it.
Similarly, gold did not become the 5000 year standard for wealth exchange and preservation the moment the first nugget was picked out of a stream. That, too, required millennia to develop.
We all need to exercise a similar long-term perspective on bitcoin. That seems to me a difficult thing to ask of us moderns, who think a long-term investment is something over 12 months; in some cases, merely over a quarter. Our very short term thinking (historically speaking) feeds the refrain that because bitcoin has not already become a payment rail or store of value it never will.
Plus, bitcoin is currently classified by the IRS as a commodity, and is taxed as such. That designation follows and reinforces the idea that bitcoin’s use case is as a supplement to, alternative to, or replacement for physical gold (precious metals in general). That’s a switch from the last cycle, during which the popularly shared use case for bitcoin was as an alternative payment rail and a permissionless – even shadow – currency. Times change and the narrative changes. It will again. But that’s just noise; the noise of the market trying to figure out what bitcoin is and how it might mature.
The IRS designation encourages us to constrain our ideas of what bitcoin is and what its future can be. However, bitcoin is already more than the IRS recognizes. In some parts of the world bitcoin functions today just as the florin did centuries ago: as an international settlement currency, as a payment rail, and as a reliable store of value. The places where that’s taking place are on the periphery of the first-world-dominated trading regime, among the unbanked and in the emerging market economies where the value of local fiat currencies is unpredictable.
The fact that bitcoin is already proving its worth as more than a store of value – that it is in fact not adequately described as a commodity – means the IRS will one day have to change its definition. I am certain that the day will come when bitcoin is recognized for what it actually is: a truly international, independent, market-based, hard money.
Until you understand what bitcoin really is, you will continue to struggle to categorize it and imagine how to use it.
What we are watching in real time is the birth of a new money. At twelve years old, it is just entering into its teenage years. It’s still growing, still maturing, and while we can see signs of what it will look like when it has reached its adulthood, we can’t be certain we understand it or its potential. Like any proud parent imagining that a child shows signs of becoming a doctor or lawyer, our projections might help shape bitcoin’s development – but might do so negatively as well as positively. What we project might poorly fit bitcoin’s maturity and so won’t materialize over the long term. I think the designation that it is a commodity is one such projection that will prove inadequate to all of the attributes present in bitcoin awaiting the right time to unfold. But, hey, I could prove as wrong, in part or whole, as anyone else.
Because bitcoin exists independently of any human authority, it will find its own way in the world. We will adapt to it. And because the infrastructure is already emerging that makes it increasingly easy and safe to use bitcoin to make micro-payments, the pressure to liberate the coin from the stricture of realized capital gains taxes for using it to buy a good or service will grow. Exponentially, I think, over the next handful of years.
Well within the decade the IRS will have to change its treatment of bitcoin because it will, in fact, be increasingly used as a payment rail around the planet, and it will increasingly supplant national currencies as a reliable and consistent and non-political settlement medium. As that character emerges, the IRS will either scrap the current designation and tax structure, or retard the participation of the US in the future global economy. We might be slow about it – as might be the West in general – because it undercuts our advantages, but in time we will have to recognize that bitcoin is money, and the only objective, market-based standard through which all national currencies are calibrated.
Until the redesignation, if I use bitcoin to make a purchase I have to track the exact coins I used, their acquisition basis, their value at the moment of conversion, and the corresponding cap gains tax implication. It’s too onerous to be practical for trivial transactions. Therefore, I am forced for awhile to use bitcoin as a combination long term investment and emergency savings account. That’s alright with me, though, because bitcoin’s value is still growing dramatically: our adolescent is still growing into her full size and maturity.
By the time she’s 20, her volatility will have reduced significantly, like all young adults. But it will be yet another decade or 15 years on before she’ll have become maturely stable. Meanwhile, an early investment in her future assures me of a share of her future wealth.
It’s also a great hedge against the increasingly rapid debasement of every fiat currency. In fact, bitcoin is not rising in dollar terms; a bitcoin is always a bitcoin. The dollar, however, is being rapidly inflated, and so is declining against a bitcoin. The smartest thing to do to preserve purchasing power is to trade as many devaluing dollars as possible for hard money, and bitcoin, like the ancient florin in its day, is the hardest.
As with the florin then, you can trade a bitcoin back into local fiat if you have the need; and you’ll nearly always be able to do so at a higher exchange rate. Even with cap gains tax treatment you’ll nearly always be well ahead of where you would be if you kept your savings in fiat, fiat equivalents, or even government-regulated and -manipulated precious metals.
TL;DR: bitcoin is an emergent money. Its volatility comes from the market finding its value, but that value is not zero, and steadily grows over time as its adoption as money expands while its new supply is trending toward zero. Its use case is still developing, but is larger than any one government or enthusiast yet realizes. Everything else is just the noise of humans trying to impose order and understanding onto an emergent, wild phenomenon.

@vtgothic, how safe it is to hodle our BTC in BlockFi? Also, I would love to hear your thoughts on PaxG and earning interest on it in BlockFi versus purchasing physical. Perhaps do a little of both? Thank you in advance!

@mrwigglesby21,
(Great handle!)
I’m the wrong guy to ask these questions of because I don’t put my BTC out to lend and I’m firmly of the conviction “not your keys, not your coin.” That goes for the PaxG concept, too. There are others here who have looked into these opportunities who can better advise you, I think.

I enjoyed listening to your podcast. Thanks for your article, this would be an eye-opener for us to prosper in life and in my personal business shipping companies Seattle.
 

The video I just watched was very helpful, but it made me wander if we sometimes think too far ahead and not enjoy the current moments with family and friends. just something to consider.
Kelly
www.scaffoldinghirehobart.com.au

The biggest risk to BlockFi would probably be exposure to a failure of the COMEX. Since they’re earning based on the BTC futures spreads, if the COMEX were to one day have a catastrophic blow up (maybe in the gold/silver markets?) then perhaps BlockFi has exposure because theoretically you’re lending those Bitcoins to BlockFi. They may hold enough reserves or they may not. I think theres too much risk personally.

Thanks drobs, I’ve hesitated to jump into the DeFi world with my coins because I don’t understand the risks and who the counterparties are. Who on earth is taking out a loan denominated in BTC or ETH and paying 7%+ so that I can earn that interest?
Bitcoin futures spreads; gives me a place to do some more research since I still don’t understand the actual mechanism and counterparties.

There really are fake gold coins made of gold plated tungsten (which has essentially the same density as gold). I got to test one in my Fisch (it passed the weight and dimension tests). For 22k gold eagles and krugerands, these coins will “ring” if you “flick” them (the fakes won’t ring). I have a special device called a “Ringer” made by Fisch. For pure gold coins (such as Gold Maple Leafs) the fakes are difficult to distinguish except by looking by magnifying glass for errors or lack of detail because both the genuine and the fake don’t ring. I also have a device from Sigma Metalytics which measures the resistivity of the coin (or bar) and compares it to a database and gives you the proper dimensions of the coin or bar. See https://www.thefisch.com/ and https://www.sigmametalytics.com/pmv-videos-improved

Hey, PreCambrian,
Back in the day when I worked some retail jobs, at the end of the shift, I had to count out my change drawer. I always carried some pot metal change coins in my pocket. I’d grab a small handful of dimes or quarters and drop them on the counter. You could hear the ring from a silver coin in the bunch. I’d find that coin and exchange for one in my pocket. Gresham’s Law and all that.

You should be able to tell the difference with electrical conductivity pretty easily. I would think that a plated coin isn’t plated very deeply so frequency selection for an eddy current based conductivity tester should be no problem at all. Maybe I can buy one of those knock off plated coins you see in various places for “collectors” and try an experiment at work. I have a few other pieces of equipment that could work as well. Seems to be a decent difference in acoustic velocity of gold vs tungsten as well.

Yes the Sigma Metalytics device uses an eddy current principle. Ultrasonic thickness measurement works as well as long as you measure the location where there is the fake metal. In gold bars sometimes they just put in tungsten rods and cast gold around them. It depends on how sophisticated (and how much money) they want to put into the fake. If it passes the density test and either the bulk resistance or the ultrasound test it has a very high probability of being genuine. I haven’t seen or heard of a fake passing both tests. The good fake coins are relatively expensive (several hundred dollars) because of the processes required and because making gold coins such as Eagles, Maple Leafs, Krugerrands, etc is counterfeiting of a sovereign currency (as opposed to making a fake gold bar).

What are our thoughts on crypto?

So many good arguments for and against inflation vs deflation. All I know is that the end result will not be pretty for the middle class
https://www.sydneyreroof.com.au/