No shortage of smiles today Bob!I am not surprised whatsoever that you are the neighbourhood "don't panic", go to guy. Maybe if you can get enough of your neighbours to connect the dots you can have a deputy or two to help you when the going gets rough.
And agreed, Greer is the BOMB!! Very insightful and thought provoking. Well worth the time to read the transcript.
Be good, and enjoy your football!
Jan
Jan,Your comment reminded me of the song Last Night Of The Year by Bruce Cockburn. He wrote it after encountering Guateman refugees in the south of Mexico in 1983.
"They had fled terrible things, were being staved and dying of disease. It couldn't get much worse, yet they faced their plight with disicipline and this eternal flame of hope. It was such a poignent thing to witness."
In the last verse of the song he says the experience "broke me open", "it refers to the process of beginning to recognize the centrality of love."
"Those people that I saw showed an increadible amount of courage, self dicipline and restraint. I've never seen anything like that and it was an experience that I had no parellel for. It was a hard look at humanity and much more representitive of how most of the world lives. You and I, the luxuries and way we live is in the minority."
The song actually came out of a conversation with the singer Sam Phillips, "one point we were walking along, I was carrying this bag of stuff that I always carry around, this knapsack with whatever, you know, notebook, flashlight, toilet paper… and she is going: What do you carry in that anyway? And I said, Oh it's everthing I need for the Apocalypse!
And Sam just stopped and looked at me and said: What do you need for the Apocalypse besides champagne and a couple of glasses?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02TUsZzF6es
John,Thanks for the sentiments and the video link. We seem to have an awful lot musicians in the world who "get it" (and actually do something too, with things Live Aid and other such concerts). Too bad that does not rub off more on the politicians…
Jan
I'm one of Greer's number one fans on this site, as you know…
John Michael Greer: Archdruid Report Essays
https://peakprosperity.com/forum/john-michael-greer-archdruid-report-essays/68216
I enjoyed listening to this quite a bit. Especially the part about facing limits and deciding what to do about it. Yes, we really are that balding middle-aged country with the mid-life crisis and the sports car, and we need to get beyond that and get to work on leaving/preserving a legacy with the time we have left!
This interview did not disappoint!!
One suggestion I have, is to read some speculative fiction about life four centuries from today, written by Greer:
The former United States is barely recognizable, though there is still a Presden [President] ruling an area centered around modern-day Cincinati. Memphis has a coastline. Technology along the lines of solar and light bulbs and some radio is what's left. There is still learning and books, but literacy isn't common. And yet while there exists ruins of the past, life in the future presents just as rich a tapestry of human diversity and drama as we have today.
You can start below… First begun back in July 2009, and read forward in time…
Star's Reach
"It was the morning of the sixth of Semba [December] in the thirty-seventh year of Sheren’s time, four hundred twenty-two years after the old world ended and ours began to struggle to life. That was the day I turned twenty and became a ruinman [scavenger/recycler of old buildings for scrap metal and other valuables], and nearly got myself reborn in the process.
"I was in the Shanuga [Chattanooga, TN] ruins that morning, down in the underplaces of a big building that must have soared well above its neighbors before storms and the work of scavengers brought it down."
http://starsreach.blogspot.com/2009/07/one-hidden-place.html
Poet
Great interview. Please consider interviewing Willem Vanderburg. His book "Our War on Ourselves" explains these myths/narratives in wonderful detail from a sociological view. Greer says "progress" is our narrative. Vanderburg breaks it down further…science is our "way of knowing" and technology/technique is our "way of doing." He also shows the desymbolizing effects of technology on our cultures.
Today, on Glenn Beck's radio program, he quoted John Micheal Greer. He said he read this on a blog post on the internet. Glenn didn't credit Chris, although I'm sure John has made the same comments on other forums so it could have come from elsewhere.
"We need to come to terms with the fact that we don’t have limitless energy, we don’t have limitless resources, we don’t have limitless time"
and
"If you’ve ever seen a fifty-year-old man trying to pretend that he’s seventeen, it’s embarrassing. It’s embarrassing to everybody and it rarely ends well. That’s what America is right now. It’s two hundred something years old. It’s not an adolescent anymore. It needs to ditch the bright red car, stop trying to pick up teenage chicks, stop the binge drinking, and actually deal with the fact that there’s only so many years left. You need to do something useful with that time and not go around with everybody else – you know, China and Europe."
I found it interesting.
Reminds me a lot of David Korten, The Great Turning, from empire to earth community. Same sentiment, founder of yes magazine, possitive vision. Love to hear Chris interview Korten as well. You are hearing the same message from more and different quarters. Perhaps were are getting close to the100th monkey just in time for December 21, when the world ends. Life is like a sing-a-long, by the time you learn the words, it's over.
Regarding health care, if your rich, health care here is the best in the world. If your middle class or poor, well, we heard the statistics. I don't think that you need expensive poor quality medical care to motivate you to be healthy, good health is an enjoyable virtue in and of itself. How about just stopping bombaring kids with adds for low quality sugar filled foods. Turn off the TV and lets take our lives back.
Markf57 mentioned it.
Here's the reference. This is where he quotes Greer on the fifty-year-old man trying to pretend that he’s seventeen.
Glenn: Live Like People Determined To Be Free (November 12, 2012)
"So I saw a post online from somebody who kind of made sense there for a while, John Michael Greer. He’s a historian and conservationist. So, you know, only about half of it you’re going to ‑‑ he believes, I’m sure he believes in the electronic winter tree. But he says we have to come in terms of the fact that we don’t have limitless energy and we don’t have limitless resources and we don’t have limitless time. Now he’s talking in the conservation way. I’m not. I think you can read this, take it out of the conservation idea and look at this as our life. We don’t have limitless energy. You have limitless energy? Because I don’t. We don’t have limitless resources."
http://www.glennbeck.com/2012/11/12/glenn-live-like-people-determined-to-be-free/
Not sure if Beck saw it here on PeakProsperity.com or on ZeroHedge.com, where it was cross-posted as well. But it sure is interesting to see Beck quoting Greer.
Poet
Poet, thanks for posting that.From where I sit Glen Beck is nothing more than a highly paid irresponsible mouthpiece, nothing more, nothing less. Don't you just love how he discounts JMG but then proceeds to use his material to fit his own agenda. Spoken like the true narcissist that he is.
In the grand scheme of things, who would you ather have in the trenches with you? Glen Beck or John Michael Greer?
I rest my case.
While I won't defend all Beck's comments, he has consistently said we were on a path that was not sustaintainable financially or politically for a very long time and backed it with accurate facts and references to history. I have seen him put his own money where his mouth is to help others in many ways.You obviously have not listened to Beck as much as you have to others that do not like him because he is very blunt and yes opinionated.
Sorry nothing against JMG, but bottom line, would stick with Beck any day because of his consistent track record of helping others in his charity Mercury One and other ventures to help small businesses.
Hi Rwrek,Thanks for chiming in. Your are right. I do not follow Beck as closely as you or others might, me being from the great white north. I do know that he does make some valid points, and has done some good things, however, I remain of the opinion that he is more a liability than an asset. Why? Because he is too divisive.
At the risk of offending some of my American friends, to me he is emblamatic of some of what ills America. Big pulpit, a big marketing machine, and big bucks. From what I know of him, he is one of those made in America success stories, overcoming addiction and other life stuff to become a passionate and talented tv host. Amen. This is a prime example of how a person who fell down can pull themselves up and climb that capitalist ladder.
But can we look a the downside of some of what he does. He makes unusubstantiated allegations, he fans flames, he stirs dissent. It has become his modus operandi.
He started out with good intent, much like most rookie politicians, but somehow morphed into a talkshow mouthpiece that took a few too many liberties with his insinuations, and ended up looking like a tea party redneck wanna be.
Sorry guys, but this is kind of what it looks like to the rest of the world, peering in on your world.
Is Glen Beck really the kind of guy you want representing you? Does he have integrity?
Definitely with John Michael Greer on getting out and doing stuff. I listened to this podcast while out kayaking late tonight. I could see the TVs on in every home along the river. I've never owned one, but live a rich life and have a more open and less biased outlook.
Westcoastjan,
IMHO the case you make for Glen beck is spot on! In addition, he has dismissed peak oil on several occasions and while he does comment that we are on an unsustainable path, he refers only to the economics of the situation.
I thought that once he left Fox he might change his tune but I have not observed it yet.
Your comment:
"Glen Beck is nothing more than a highly paid irresponsible mouthpiece, nothing more, nothing less."
works well for me.
Coop
Beck's a punk! He would be my point Man in my squad. Guaranteed. Other than that I think the people he interviews are very intelligent and important.
Peace
BOB
Just got around to listening to this podcast. I thought I was hearing Chris talking with a contemporary Gandalf. (Lord of the Rings). How appropriate for these times.
At the beginning of the intervieuw he touched on our society's cognitive dissonance : belief in the Bigger and Better Future with a moral religious tradition that sees an Apcolyptic end of time (a sort second chance will be better : in the afterlife, heaven, etc).
Now off to work my little Hobbits!
cheers, Joanne.
Didn't read listen to the whole interview yet, but some of it remind me of Rimbaud, who remains for me the most actual thinker for our time("one season in hell" and the "illuminations" mostly), like for instance below :
'The flag goes with the foul landscape, and our jargon muffles the drum.' In the great centers we'll nurture the most cynical prostitution. We'll massacre logical revolts. In spicy and drenched lands!-- at the service of the most monstrous exploitations, industrial or military. 'Farewell here, no matter where. Conscripts of good will, ours will be a ferocious philosophy; ignorant as to science, rabid for comfort; and let the rest of the world croak. This is the real advance. Marching orders, let's go!'Democracy
(that translation isn't so great though, maybe some better)
Beautiful interview! In addition to his writing, I enjoy when John Michael Greer appears on podcasts. Chris's questions here are wonderful and JMG has also made appearances on The Extraenvironmentalist which I highly recommend. And guess who's also appeared before!
The Extraenvironmentalist has a great video section featuring interviews with other thinkers such as Bill Rees who address our cultural narratives.
Just a couple things I noticed on the transcript - at the end of Chris's 4th line I believe it's "social descent" like above, rather than dissent. Further down there's JMG's line "the Ray Criswells of the world" where it ought to be the Ray Kurzweils.
Ray Kurzweil is fascinating. I read his book "The Singularity Is Near" five years ago - I needed two parallel bookmarks because the endnotes were so interesting - and though I do give his scenario for the 21st century a non-zero chance of realization, I think it's quite unlikely given the biophysical limits the world imposes on our industrial civilization. Still, there's a reverence in contemplating the theoretical limits of matter and energy to host computation and to manifest intelligence and consciousness. Even if no civilization on Earth or in the Universe ever creates these artifacts, it's humbling to consider that nature admits them.
Singularity "theory" is nothing but a vulgar ultrautilitarianist antiesthetic version of the classical messiah myth.And Kurzweil a boring illiterate punk.
Not sure where you're coming from. You seem to be confused and think I endorse those ideas, but I wrote about physics not eschatology.
And Kurzweil a boring illiterate punk.From the Wikipedia article on Ray Kurzweil. "Recognition and awards" (these are just a few of those listed): "The 1999 National Medal of Technology. This is the highest award the President of the United States can bestow upon individuals and groups for pioneering new technologies, and the President dispenses the award at his discretion. Bill Clinton presented Kurzweil with the National Medal of Technology during a White House ceremony in recognition of Kurzweil's development of computer-based technologies to help the disabled." "The 2001 Lemelson-MIT Prize for a lifetime of developing technologies to help the disabled and to enrich the arts. Only one is meted out each year to highly successful, mid-career inventors. A $500,000 award accompanies the prize." "Kurzweil has received eighteen honorary doctorates." How about you? How many honorary doctorates do you have? How many medals have you been given by a U.S. President? And how do your book sales compare to Ray Kurzweil's?