John Perkins: The Shadow World Of The Economic Hitman

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If you're hoping to have a 'feel good' day today, we're about to owe you an apology.

John Perkins, author of The New Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, is someone we've been trying to get on the program for some time. He tells a dark story of an elite cabal working in the shadows to subjugate governments as it pursues ever-greater control of the planet's resources.

What's most frightening about this story is how credible it is. Anybody paying attention to world developments will have a hard time dismissing Perkins' claims out-of-hand; and a harder time not being sickened at how on the mark his claims may likely prove to be:

Economic hitmen – I'm a former one, actually – created the world's first truly global empire. It's really a corporate empire, not an American empire although the U.S. government certainly supports it.

We work many different ways, but perhaps the most common is that we will identify a country that has resources that corporations want, like oil. We arrange huge loans of that country from the World Bank or one of its sisters. Yet, the money never actually goes to the country. It is primarily there to make the our companies -- that build the infrastructure projects like the power plants, and the industrial parks, highways, and ports -- very rich.

In addition, a few wealthy families make a lot of money off of these programs. They own the industries and commercial centers. 

But the majority of the people do not benefit at all. They do not have enough money to buy much electricity. They cannot get jobs in industrial parks because the industrial parks do not hire many people. They lose out because a lot of money is diverted from healthcare, education, and other social services to try to pay the interest on the debt. 

In the end, the principal is never paid down. We go back and say Since you cannot pay your debts, sell your resource real cheap to our corporations without any environmental restrictions or social regulations. Or privatize, and sell off your electric utilities;,your water and sewage systems, and your schools, your jails -- all of your public sector businesses -- to our corporations. 

These leaders are very aware that if they do not accept these deals; if we economic hitmen fail to bring them around, the jackals are likely to show up. These are people that will either assassinate those leaders or overthrow their governments. 

Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with John Perkins (41m:54s)

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://peakprosperity.com/john-perkins-the-shadow-world-of-the-economic-hitman/

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Take the 40 minutes to fully appreciate the conversation.It is time well spent and why we come to Peak Prosperity!

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For your consideration, apologies to Mr. Kelleher and "un-believers".
 

The Mars/Saturn Conjunction

 

February 19 - June 16. 2016

July 12 - September 17, 2016

August 23rd Exact.

 

Saturn and Mars will be in Scorpio for the next several months.  Actually, they will take a little break between June 16th and July 12th,  but the exact periods of their shared occupation of Scorpio will be between February 19th and June 16th, and then again from July 12th to September 16th. 

 

Saturn and Mars are both malefic or challenging planets.  Saturn is the planet of delays, obstacles, and pressures.  Mars is the planet of warfare, desire, anger, and violence.  Having them together in the same sign is a recipe for an increase of difficulties in the world.  Having them both in the sign of Scorpio, the sign of upheavals and changes, is like throwing a fire cracker into the recipe. 

 

When two planets come to the same degree of the zodiac it is called a conjunction.  That event will  take place on August 24, 2016.  On the other hand, as long as they share the same sign, they will mix their energies.  In Vedic astrology we also refer to the sharing of the same sign as a conjunction, even though the planets may be several degrees away from each other.  The exact conjunction, is just the most intense part of their shared interaction. 

 

Mars wants to go ahead quickly.  Saturn wants to go slowly and tends to produce obstacles.  Together these planets tend to produce a phenomenon which I call the "Rush Hour Traffic Effect".  It's like driving the car with the gas and the brakes on at the same time. It is a time during which masses of people throughout the world are feeling an increase in the level of frustration.

 

As a result, this period, whether we are talking about the mutual occupation of Scorpio or the exact conjunction of Mars in August,  will be likely to increase tension and stress in the world.  This will inflame hot-spots that are already on fire in areas like the middle east.  It will also produce a tendency towards a greater number of events related to terrorism and warfare in general. 

 

Going back in history, Mars and Saturn make a conjunction in Scorpio about every 30 years.  On the other hand, it is rare to have Mars and Saturn in Scorpio at the same time that Mars is retrograding.   A normal conjunction of Mars and Saturn only takes a couple of months.   When it occurs along with the retrograde phase of Mars they can stay in the same sign for up to about 9 months.  That is what is happening in 2016.  The last time this happened was in 1779. 

 

In 1779 the revolutionary war was going on, and the Mars/Saturn transit in Scorpio took several months to complete due to Mars' retrograde motion.  During that time, Spain declared war on Great Britain, in support of the United States. Benedict Arnold was court martialed near the time of the conjunction as well.  There were also violent flare ups and warfare in other parts of the world. 

This conjunction is also a mechanical or technical influence.  In 1779, it took place during the first industrial revolution.  At the time of the conjunction the Iron Bridge (Mars rules iron) was erected in England.  The oldest still-working engine in the world was brought online, and the Spinning Mule, a miraculous new invention that revolutionized the textile industry, was perfected.  This means that in 2016,  a number of significant technological advancements will be realized. 

 

Although this type of conjunction is primarily used to predict trends in the world, it will also play a role in each person's individual chart.  Depending on the domain of life related to the house in which the sign of Scorpio is located in each person's horoscope, Mars and Saturn will produce a variety of influences on each of us.  In general, this is a good year to cultivate patience.  It is also a good year for taking care of a variety of mechanical and technical issues in your life.

 

Here is a brief description of what the Mars/Saturn conjunction might do in your chart over the next six months.  Remember, this description only applies to the period from February 19 - June 16 and then again from July 12 - September 17 of 2016.  Also remember that, in Vedic astrology, we use a different zodiac, so make sure that you look at the birth dates very carefully and don't use your western Sun sign. 

 

Apr 14 - May 14  (Aries)   This period could produce significant changes. This is good time to commit yourself to an exercise program.  Yoga, especially is a good idea. 

 

May 15 - Jun 14 (Taurus).   This period challenges you to exercise patience in the area of partnership, marriage, or business. 

 

Jun 15 - Jul 15 (Gemini)    This is a good time to work on  your health.   Saturn encourages you to establish or reinforce routines like diet or exercise.  Mars is the planet of energy and also rules the muscles of the body.  So you might benefit from looking at a total health program.

 

Jul 16 - Aug 16 (Cancer)  Mars and Saturn are transiting your fifth house, the house of children, education, creativity and romance.   If you are in school, double down on your studies. This period favors the study of math or science.  If you have kids, pay attention. You might need to be a little more patient with them, or you might find that one of them is under a little stress.  In romance, be patient. This isn't the most romantic time, so don't make mountains out of mole hills.  The same is true for creativity.  This is a good time for routines, techniques, and regular effort, rather than creative inspiration.

 

Aug 17 - Sep 16  (Leo)   Mars and Saturn are passing through your  fourth house. This is a transit that suggests the need to be a happy camper with regards to your place of residence.  It is a great time for doing repairs or remodels, but it is also may require you to be patient with regards to selling or buying property.

 

Sep 17 - Oct 16  (Virgo)  The conjunction of Saturn and Mars is influencing your 3rd house, the house of communications, information, and short journeys.  This is a good time for doing lots of practical errands around town, especially if they are related to anything mechanical or technical.  Also, make sure you take plenty of time going to and from appointments.  Similarly, you might experience a little "rush hour traffic" in the area of communication.  However, this period favors the process of getting technical information.

 

Oct 17 - Nov 15 (Libra)   During this period, Mars and Saturn will be transiting your second house, which rules over money and food.  With money, it is mixed, giving period of expenses and periods of gains.  The best approach is to be patient, prudent, and thrifty.  With diet, this period is challenging you to be disciplined.  Maybe it is a good time to get back on your diet, or to simply make an effort to eat more high quality food.

 

Nov 16 - Dec 15 (Scorpio)  Mars and Saturn are influencing your first house during this period. The first house signifies your body and you expression of self.  On the negative side, this period could make you work very hard or feel like your work is simply tedious.  You could feel that your energy is low or that you are simply over extended.  It could also produce delays  and obstacles in general.  On the positive side, this could be a very productive period of working very hard.  The idea is to pace yourself, and to make sure that you are taking time for your routines of health and rest.  Get up, dress up and show up.  Be positive, patient, polite, and persistent.  How's that for a lot of  P's.

 

Dec 16 - Jan 13 (Sagittarius)   During this period, Saturn and Mars are moving through your twelfth house.  This is the house of introspection, sleep, expenditure and distant places.  This is a period during which travel could involve delays or pressures.  It is a good time to be thrifty and to minimize expenditure.  As far as introspection goes, a physical form of meditation ,like yoga or tai chi, is recommended. Yoga can also help  you sleep more soundly, but in this department, it is also recommended that you go to bed early and try to have a regular sleep schedule.

 

Jan 14 - Feb 12 (Capricorn).    This period finds Saturn and Mars in your eleventh house.  This is the section of the horoscope that is related to friends, groups, earnings, and goals.  During this time you might experience occasional frustration with friends or with the organizations or groups to which you belong.  So a little patience will go a long way.  Remember, your friends are not wired like you.  They are all doing the best they can.  This period could also put you into overdrive in your desire to accomplish your goals.  If you experience a little rush hour traffic in the process, just be patient.  In fact, this combination actually produces a transiting Dana Yoga, which is a combination that promotes financial gains.

 

Feb 13 - Mar 13 (Aquarius)  For you, the  Saturn/Mars combination is influencing your career.  This is actually creating a temporary Raja Yoga in your area of career and this is good for producing better results with career, projects, or avocational pursuits. This is especially true if these involvements are technical or mechanical in nature.  On the other hand, the process of accomplishment could involve starts and stops and a lot of problems solving, so be patient.

 

Mar 14 - Apr 13 (Pisces)    During this period, Mars and Saturn are moving through your ninth house.  This is a transit that can produce long distance travel, and that travel will be more beneficial if it involves the accomplishment of something practical.  It could also involve some delays or obstacles.  This house is also related to teachers and education, so if you are involved in the educational process, then you will need to make an effort now. 

March Eclipses

 

 

Total Solar Eclipse

March 8, 2016

4:54 pm PST

24 degrees Aquarius

Purva Bhadrapada nakshatra

 

This solar eclipse takes place in Purva Bhadrapada nakshatra which is symbolized by a funeral bed. On a simple level, this suggests an increase of tension and violent events flaring up in political hot-spots throughout the world during the next few months. The effect of an eclipse is more prominent in the days or weeks surrounding the eclipse, but the overall influence can last up to a few months.

 

Purva Bhadrapada nakshatra is also a spiritual nakashatra. Its Shakti is the power to elevate consciousness. It calls our attention to the fact that life is temporary and that the only thing that is permanent is spirit. For this reason, the days surrounding the eclipse are good for focusing on activities like meditation, yoga, and other spiritual practices.

 

A funeral cot is also a symbol of endings. This period is good for bringing things to conclusion; getting rid of things that are no longer useful or which no longer serve you. All things pass away. Everything changes constantly, yet we cling to the pleasant conditions and things in our life, trying to desperately make them last forever. During this eclipse, let go. Remember that we are only here for a short time, and that life is only a dream.

 

 

 

The mantra for this eclipse is Om Purva Bhadrapada Nakshatra Devataye namah

 

Lunar Eclipse

March 23, 2016

4:am PST

9 degrees Virgo

Uttara Phalguni nakshatra

 

 

This nakshatra ruled by the deity, Aryaman, god who blesses marriages. He is the matchmaker. He is also a mentor or patron for helping people who are struggling. The Shakti of this nakshatra is the power of wealth through marriage. In general, it is not a good Idea to begin things that are related to the significations of the nakshatra in which the eclipse is taking place. On the other hand, this is a good time to make donations to married couples, hospitals, or to people who need help.

 

The mantra for this eclipse is Om Uttara Phalguni Nakshatra Devataye Namah

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Thanks, Chris, for another great podcast.  I hadn't realized that Perkins had a new book out and I'm downloading the audio version now.
A lot of great stuff in there, but this part jumped out at me:

Chris Martenson said:

I held that story for a long time, John. Then visiting places where people are engaged in really intelligent farming practices, permaculture, really deep, I learned that humans can actually be incredible agents of abundance. We can work either for destruction or for regeneration. It is really a choice, honestly. It is really something that is within our power. 

John's reply about finding a cause that one finds important and enjoys working towards was equally encouraging.

This Ben Falk quote seems to fit:

Creating a multi-storied ecosystem, with mushrooms and berries and fruits and nuts, grazing animals and vegetables all interwoven...This idea of permaculture.  We can actually be healing forces...  So all of a sudden, humans start doing good.  And then impact is a great thing. Then footprint is something we want to leave. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1x7DQp9ysc
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The crash course was a masters work in accuracy and simplicity. It made clear comments about the broad issues facing our society. Lately, the tone has changed to conspiracy and confirmation bias. I adored the post about singing frogs farm, and I enjoy some challenging comments on the forum, however I really don't need to hear about complex conspiracy theories.
If there really is a select group of people manipulating world events then I functionally have no control over them. I can't stop them, I can't join them, I probably can't help but be caught up in the world events no matter how cautious, and I probably can't predict or understand their strategy. So why would I try to understand something that has no functional use for me, that the understanding off will make me angry.

I like trying to figure things out, fun things, things that make me happy. The hours spent reading conspiracy theories on the internet has no value to me. The hours spent horse riding and swimming and in the garden are priceless.

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Of course you are free to pursue happiness, however you see fit, however, perhaps you should reconsider your own confirmation bias.

  What I gather from your comment is that:  you don't want to hear about bad things outside of your control, you don't want to invest energy in understanding how things might actually work if
those things are unpleasant. and you have no power as an individual against the rapaciousness of the various evil forces at work.
But we all have power to pursue truth and act in congruity with our knowledge in our dealings with the world. That is perhaps the only real power that we have! 

If the mission here is to hep create a world worth inheriting, than isn't the first step,  seeking to understand the world we've got?   How the system works?  Don't solutions flow from better understanding of the problems? 

I have and continue to adjust my individual behaviors to reflect what I learn. 

I found this to be a valuable, hopeful and proactive interview with someone that is has unique personal experience in the worst of our broken systems.
mememonkey
 

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Great lecture by Vijay Prashad on the Real News yesterday very much in keeping with the themes of this interview with John Perkins that is brimful with humaneness. Erm, I mean to say that both lecture and interview are…
As you might expect, the foreign policy of the 1% that we have been living with since forever is singularly lacking in humaneness, possibly humanity as well. /dismount soapbox

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My take away from this discussion wasn't so much that this is some sort of secret conspiracy so much as a business model.  Those in the corporations approaching things this way are not necessarily evil doers rubbing their hands together with glee as they plot world domination.  More like they are just people working their jobs following the business model that is bringing in profits.  We need to become aware of how it works to recognize it as a failing model.  While changing this as a broad world trend may be out of our hands individually I think there are things we can take and apply directly to improve our lives now.
When Mr. Perkins spoke of this model now being applied in the US and other western countries my immediate thought was that this was happening in both a macro and micro scale.  Encourage an entity to take on too much debt then when they can't pay you start forcing other behaviors which wouldn't have happened otherwise.  In the US I think we are seeing this at the city, state, and federal levels, areas that get increasingly out of our hands to seriously influence as an individual.  However, is this not also the new practice at the individual level.  We are encouraged to take out students loans, mortgages for homes larger than we need, home equity loans, car loans, credit cards, and payday loans.  It used to be that you could pretty well count on a bank or loaning business to run the numbers and make sure you weren't taking on too much debt.  Not so anymore from what I read.  Then when you get in over your head you get slapped with fees of all sorts, higher interest rates, foreclosures, and repossessions.  You may find you have to work longer and harder at jobs you don't really like just to try and stay afloat.  I have a friend who has gotten himself into this sort of situation.  He can't safely keep money in a bank because creditors can have the bank go and take the money out of his account.  For this "service" the bank first charges the account from $50 to $100 which will be deducted whether that much is in the account or not.  If any money is left then it goes to the creditor.  If there wasn't enough then his account is considered overdrawn and a whole new batch of fees gets applied.  I'm not saying he isn't to blame to some degree for his situation, he certainly is, however, it is extremely hard for him to get out of it now.  This is the sort of thing I would see as economic hit man activity on a personal micro level.  If you know and understand the business model then you will be better able to avoid falling into it.

Personally I've always strongly avoided taking on debt.  About 10 years ago I was finally able to pay off the last of the few debts I had taken on.  The freedom that has given me is wonderful!  Since one of those debts was for a very small, minimal home, which I now own free and clear this means my required expenses are miniscule.  If I so chose I have the power to reduce my income to poverty wages and still lead a pretty good life.  These are the sorts of ways I can fight the economic hit man sort of business model.  I can live and demonstrate a different model that works better for me as an individual.  Put differently, I have the option to spend much more of my life pursuing things I enjoy whether these things are a job that pays less, or activities that pay nothing at all.  That has been the functional use to me of understanding how debt could be used at a tool to extract my productive energy.

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War against the weak us as old as man himself.  Edwin Black provides illuminating historical information.
http://youtu.be/qFqxeeMGIRk

AK GrannyWGrit

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Looked for a promo on YouTube for Mr Perkins new book but didn't find one. This would be a good place to put it if he had one or makes one.  Didn't mean to steal his thunder just remembered seeing YouTube videos by Mr. Black that also discussed the targeted war on the weak.  YouTube's for books can be very informative.  Just a suggestion.

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Win - Lose strategies invariably result in Lose - Lose outcomes.
This was one of the most important lessons I learnt during a graduate training course in my first job after leaving university.

"Suddenly in the '70s, everything changed. Corporations suddenly get this marching order to do whatever it would take to maximize profits. That has created this predatory form of capitalism that is destroying us." 
can be translated to : "Corporations aggressively started pursuing Win - Lose strategies and as a result we are ALL losing."
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Aloha! Thanks and mahalos to John Perkins, as any account from the inside is always enlightening and sobering. I first read Confessions of an Economic Hitman back in 2005. If you understand the USA as Empire then it all fits. At this point in the cycle it seems the best we can hope for in our efforts is some sort of "truthiness" which then leads to a fleeting understanding of "evilness" that we can all point our fingers at, democrat or republican or independent.  
In my life experience it seems to me we are all trying to survive the heavy handed grip of government. Don't forget government controls everything. Just like any dictator central government can be benevolent or it can be totalitarian. These days even dictators can say they were "elected". Even Hugo Chavez was "elected"! He destroyed Venezuela, a country I called home during my childhood. Even in the 1960s when I lived there it was a socialist military junta. What isn't a "junta" and what hasn't been throughout human history. There are many was to "force" compliance other than military might. Still, that said the US military enforces the USD globally. No matter what you want to call it social democracy or whatever it is still Empire. Are we that blind that we cannot see we are Empire. We are the new British Empire.

I blame no US corporation for their efforts to survive Empire. Look to the British East India Company during the British Raj. What was that other than a conglomerate of the wealthy endeavoring to survive the British monarchy. That monarchy still has wealth and if you think the current politicians in control of Washington DC, both sides of the isle, are any different than monarchy in terms of using military and laws to gain favorable status and advance wealth then you are living a delusion. No government on Earth is any different because the human condition dominates us as humans. It dominates our decisions and the main force we possess is that of "survival"! No longer do we fear TRex, but we do fear the newest brutal predator who has replaced the TRex … TRulers. Rulers are … as rulers do! Make no mistake as taxation is predatory. It is government exercising "Rule". Try not paying taxes and see. See what happens when you stop paying property taxes and association dues. Try little things like not paying the taxes on your phone bill.Tell the gas station attendant you will only pay the cost of the fuel not the taxes. Tell the Mercedes dealer you will only pay for the car not the sales tax.

Corporations stand a better chance of surviving Empire than the average citizen simply because corporations have more capital. Our politicians are too proud and sophisticated to call it "bribes" like Third World dictators, but what is the Clinton Foundation other than a "bribe depository"? You think Castro and Krushev were not capitalists? Where is there anyone who isn't a capitalist? If you have a job so you can pay bills you are a capitalist and the system is capitalism. Wasn't that the USSR too? And who profited most from the USSR? It wasn't the worker.

Our Founding Fathers knew this best because they had plenty of experience with Empire. They knew more government meant monarchy. They knew less government meant more Freedom.

I have made choices to best survive Empire. If you can pay the least taxes and live in the least desirable areas then your chances are better. As an example. A five acre farm near an active volcano in Hawaii costs $365 per year in property taxes. I would rather take my chances with an active volcano than a condo in Los Angeles or New York. Just because you think you can afford property taxes now does not guarantee you can afford them 10 or 20 years from now. Look at all the senior citizens now who were told to save their entire lives. I know seniors with over $500k in their bank savings getting paid $26 a month interest. You really think you 401k is safe? Nothing is safe when dictators get elected.

Consider Donald Trump and his supporters the fly in the King's ointment!

 

 

 

 

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Good discussion.  I did not get conspiracy either.
I particularly liked mention that decisions regarding actions should take into consideration age/stage in life, among other factors.

Here's a good purpose to consider:

Corporations and CEOs are part of the problem.  So are governments, religions and countries.

It would be hard to argue that exponential population growth isn't one of the top two or three problems we face. I'd place it first by a wide margin.  It is a large driver of virtually every other problem we face, whether it's environmental, economic, consumption or conflict.

Of course the projection of 11 billion by 2100, that is widely published on the Internet, will never happen.  Of the 11 billion people in 2100, half of them are supposed to be in Africa.  

World wide famine before the middle of this century will at least slow the population growth.

But, I'd argue that facing an inevitable world wide famine is a very strong reason to try to make this the number one topic of discussion world wide.

Sounds like I found a purpose.  Consider joining me.

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Yes, in some ways the big limits to growth trends trump most of our short term problems, whether political or otherwise.  For example, if we agree that you're right Les - and I think you are - in terms of the likelihood of worldwide famine, it might imply moving somewhere with lots of local/regional food per capita. 

And if we look at one of the the other super-trends - climate change - moving significantly further north (or south, if you're in the southern hemisphere) also might make sense, if possible.  Of course, one could also argue that moving to Arkansas or Queensland makes sense because there's a lot of water per capita and will be more, as far as we can tell, with more climate change, at least in the Mississippi corridor. (I'm not really sure about Queensland in terms of water projections.)

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I regularly see news stories that, at minimum, support the prediction of world wide famine.  Water shortages, aquifer and lake depletion, land decertification, and bee colony collapse are all hand writing on the wall.  If I had to guess, I'd say we are going to hit that speed bump before the 2045 prediction.

I live in central Wisconsin, which has all the things you mentioned, plus a low population density.  My primary concern is that it is difficult to go "off grid" in central Wisconsin.  Solar panels are not as cost effective due to overcast and our winters are cold.

I see I missed the Y axis on the chart I uploaded this morning.  In my defense, I was undercaffeinated when I made that post.

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Population growth - number one problem. Agreed.
So why don't we tackle the problem ?  Three reasons come to mind.

  1. GDP/capita and population size is highly correlated.  Hence increasing population is a sure way to get the "growth" that our politicians promise to deliver if elected . (I can provide graphs if necessary to prove this)

  2. A falling population causes problems to entitlement programs such as pensions and healthcare. i.e. Less working age people to support an ageing non-productive population.

  3. A large population provide cannon fodder in wars you may want to wage and also deters others from attacking you.

Hence we will continue to have a total blackout on population related topics from the media, government and corporations.

 

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But, I will carry the message, as best I can.

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Nigel, meme-
In the earlier part of my life, I read a great deal of history and I too came to the conclusion that not everything is puppies and kittens.

In my later years I've gone through more spiritual training and realized something in addition: that where you, personally, decide to spend your energy ends up creating (to a large extent) your own world.

I think Nigel is saying that, regardless of the global puppy + kitten distribution, he personally would prefer to focus the majority of his energy on creating positive outcomes in the areas that he personally controls, so that he, personally, ends up with more puppies and kittens in his own experience, while acknowledging that there are plenty of unfortunately puppy-free spots in many other places around the globe.

(And certainly if most everyone focused on this, we'd probably be overrun with puppies and kittens, metaphorically speaking)

For those thoroughly grounded in the realpolitik of our objective reality, this is simple burying-your-head-in-the-sand nonsense, and prior to my spiritual training I would have agreed.  I don't agree anymore.  I believe that each of our personal focus matters, and maintaining a positive personal focus results in real changes to our apparently objective reality.

That doesn't mean I ignore conspiracies, but I believe it is important to assess the level of attention that I personally give them in my daily life, and the impact that has on where my energy and focus happens to be.

Phrased differently, one can understand that sewers are present, and the contents of the sewers are relatively noxious, without feeling the need to tramp around in them every single day trying to determine the exact composition of said sewer contents, discussing at length who exactly was filling the sewers with crap, what they had eaten the night before, and then attempting to predict what they are planning on eating tomorrow.

I also need reminders from Nigels of the world not to focus over-much on the things I tend to over-focus on.

"That which you put your attention on will grow stronger in your life."

Now lets see if I can focus on bringing more puppies and kittens into my own experience, and less on these silly markets.  Or ""markets"".  Or markets.  Or !!MARKETS!!  Pick the punctuation that makes you happy.  :slight_smile:

Ultimately, the world is more than objective reality.  Or so I believe.

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Dave,
I'll take the opposite side of your position here.  This is a debate that rages in my family who mostly come from a philosophy that is described as "new-thought" (power of positive thinking) mixed with some Eastern mysticism.

The key idea is:

"That which you put your attention on will grow stronger in your life."

(So only think of happy things.)

And the opposite might be phrased:
“If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you.”
Or said another way:
If the priest really is molesting the alter boys, it will continue until the people see it clearly and refuse to allow it to continue.
So when one calls out the priest, they are not necessarily "acting out of negativity," or to "damage the ideals of the church," "failing to focus on love" but to protect the alter boys.  (These are examples of my family's response to revelations about the deep state.)  Calling out ongoing destructiveness is an act of humanity and caring for those still in the process of being hurt.

For example, this man is undergoing "simulated drowning experiences" at Guantanamo Bay in order to identify the terrorists who caused 9/11.

We must take a stand on this issue to protect these fellow human beings.

 

 

 

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SP-

"That which you put your attention on will grow stronger in your life."

(So only think of happy things.)

I can see my language has caused you to drop me in the same space as your family.  :-)

I'm just guessing I'm not very much like your positive-thinking family.  I come from the other end of the spectrum.  I know very well what the unhappy things are.  After a lot of work, I can look at them, acknowledge they exist, and the effects they currently have, but I am now able to refrain from turning them into the focus of my life.

The world is full of good and bad, little of which we have the ability to personally alter.  Iris Chang decided to write about the Rape of Nanking to tell everyone in the west what occurred.  She penned a fascinating, horrific book - and ended up committing suicide some years later.  You have to be very careful what you immerse yourself in.  Was her choice wise or foolish?  I can't say.  But knowing what I know now about how stuff works, I wouldn't have gone there.  Then again, I didn't feel her sense of mission.  Truth be told, it feels like she came into this life just to tell this particular story.  But that's not why I'm here.

And from my own personal experience, some events I can see and acknowledge but if I don't let it go, I can just feel that it will end up consuming me.  And I have better things to do.  (And no, they don't involve priests or altar boys).

At the same time, if someone kicks me, my response won't be particularly enlightened.  I'll kick them back, just as hard as I can.  I'll probably regret it later, but that's how it usually works out - because the initial kick is never seen by the bystanders, but the response sure is.

So, getting back to Nigel - perhaps he doesn't feel like he wants to spend his days engaged in this particular crusade, and instead he prefers to focus on creating things that are within arm's reach, in the world he can directly affect.  Well that's my impression of what he was saying anyway.

This sounds bad to you?

If the priest really is molesting the alter boys, it will continue until the people see it clearly and speak out.
I'm calling Godwin's Law on this one: Priests molesting altar boys are equivalent to Nazis, Hitler, and other trigger examples.  If you want to bring up another one, I'd be happy to play along.