John Rubino: Out of Good Options

In this week's podcast John Rubino provides an excellent explanation of why governing has become such hard sledding of late for our politicians. Since they have enjoyed an ever-expanding pie so far in their careers, they don't have any professional experience of prioritizing spending, which the sluggish economy is now demanding of them. They are, simply put, the wrong people for the job:

Once you borrow more money than you can ever hope to pay back, the system becomes ungovernable. You cannot do the things you used to be able to do, which is to basically buy votes with new money, because you are out of money. And that is what is happening to the U.S. right now. So we have a whole generation of politicians who have never had to stiff major constituency. They have always been able to find the money to keep the people who put them in office happy. But suddenly, with these debt ceiling things and QE maybe being scaled back, etc., etc., the amount of money that is available is no longer sufficient to keep everybody happy.

It used to be that the Democrats and Republicans would basically cut deals in which the Republicans got an expanded global military empire and the Democrats got an expanded entitlement state. And they were both more or less happy. But now there is not enough money for both of those objectives to be satisfied.

Now they are at the point where the money is not sufficient to satisfy both of those objectives. And so somebody has to lose. And these politicians have never had to do this in their careers. They have never had to stand before an audience and tell hard truths. And they do not have those skills. The system has not been selecting for blunt honesty in the political system right now. So you have got John Boehner and Nancy Pelosi who have never had to do this before.

And yet they have to find a way to do it, or they have to convince the Federal Reserve to continue to print new money into the horizon, and get the political system to raise or just suspend the debt limit, and then just cut loose – at that point there is not even any pretense of fiscal sanity in the system. And I think we are heading to that point right now because the alternative is to tell the truth, make constituencies mad, and risk the stock market tanking, and all the things that started to happen when Ben Bernanke intimated that QE might at some obscure time in the future be scaled back by 5% or 10% and the stock market started to collapse.

So, we are reaching the point where we basically just give up in the political system and say look, we cannot stop the spending from growing. We cannot stop the deficit from expanding. So we are just going to have to finance it. We are going to have to put the pressure on the dollar in the system as the safety valve. So we are going to depreciate the currency, and we are just going to let it run from there.

And at that point, everything changes.

Because right now, people do not really know what the future of government policy is going to be because you've got all these cross-currents. But once they give it up, once they completely suspend the debt limit and don't even attempt to scale back the entitlement state and the global military empire, and it becomes clear to everybody that that is policy going forward forever, then I think things get really interesting. And we can talk about what specific markets would be most hurt and most benefited by this. But I think it becomes a really fascinating market, with some analogs in the past that are both interesting and scary, like Weimar, Germany, and Zimbabwe.

Click the play button below to listen to Chris Martenson's interview with John Rubino (49m:41s):


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at

Thank you for that talk.I appreciate the honesty, it is essential for rational decisions. (Love that spelling checker- did I mention that?)
I disagree with John that a debt Jubilee would not work because (If I understand his argument correctly), the money would have to be borrowed. I cannot see why that is the case. It could just be printed-which would be a tax on all wealth as it depreciates All currency.

Ah! I becomes clear to me now. It would depreciate the wealth of the Uber Wealthy and transfer it to the proletariat. Seeing that the Uber wealthy are writing the rules right now this is not going to happen.

The other point I picked up on was this notion of paying off debts. Since when? If moral justification can be found to bomb kids in the East and the delightfully amusing double tap drone strikes, then where is the problem telling the creditors to lower their expectations? Ah Yes. More clarity- who are the holders of this debt? The same people who are writing the rules- the Uber Wealthy.

Money is ultimately an illusion. Those folding bits of paper are valuable because we all agree that they are valuable- until we don't.

On Robots- I have no problem having a robot go out to work instead of me, so long as I get the money. Robots will destroy the concept of money- if we can find the energy to build and run them.

Edit: Where is the fun of being Uber Wealthy when money has lost its meaning? More clarity.

Hi Chris,
 Your conversation with John Rubino, is yet another dialogue between 'like minds' — and many of the doomster's and inflationist's arguments ( which are intellectually appealing to me) are well stated, and in contrast with this theme, is the latest broadcast from Jim Puplava's Financial Sense this weekend.   Earlier in the year you predicted a 40% correction in the stockmarket, which is now likely to finish on an all time high, while gold will probably confirm that is range bound in a bear market, at values not far removed from average AISC's (all in sustaining costs) of gold production. Hope springs eternal in gold bug's heart.   You now have made a partial admission in that you and JR have got your timing wrong (LOL)

 Jim, who has been stating for 3-4 years that the market is in a new bull phase, and was an early convert to the idea that the gold market peaked in 2011, and, gold remains in a bear market , albeit with an impressive bear rally going for the last 2 weeks. Problem is for gold as JP sees it is there is no real lasting stimulus for gold, and there are better sectors for investment. He says all bull markets begin with a wall of worry, and doubt, but eventually FOMO (fear of missing out) takes hold and fund managers and retail investors capitulate , as the bond market goes into a bear phase, with the possibility of a bond market collapse.

 Heres where Jim loses me. He rationalizes further stockmarket gains on PE expansion, which is plausible if interest rates remain ultra low — but will not be the case if the bond market collapses , which means higher interest rates — see why I'm confused ?

 Jim is adamant that the Fed has no choice but to continue QE indefinitely, to keep the stock market and other markets 'stable' but mainly to keep interest rates low , so that the interest rate payments for government debt doesn't consume all tax revenue, if interest rates ' normalise '.                                      Now in Australia, those who have preached and practiced " Don't Fight the Fed " have been very successful, and just today,  point out that the US government debt as a proportion of GDP is falling, and remains a lot less than Japan, and is very sustainable for years to come. (yes I hear you say, what about all those unpaid entitlements and the Detroit-isation the IOUSA heartland — ah the joys of bankruptcy - only the innocent , naive and unprotected are hurt - capitalism in its most creative destructive mode ! ) .

 Also, the IOUSA QE is not occurring in isolation - the Japanese, Chinese, the UK, the EU and Australia ---- all those that matter and control the world economy, which means that " Austrian Economic theories" using examples like Weimar Germany, Zimbabwe, Argentina  etc just don't apply. The idea that China's economy can become independent of the IOUSA is too ridiculous for words – ditto Japan, India and Europe - the manufactured mini crisis surrounding the bugging of Angela Merkel's phone  just shows how deeply entrenched and pervasive US power is , and how contemptuous they are of even their closest allies — Obama promised that it wont happen again, by which he means, the US will make sure such things are either undetected or unreported.  

 Now Doug Casey's endless self serving, trite Roman history lessons, need to be given just one bit of credence - the Roman empire lived beyond its means for hundreds of years before it collapsed, and the Romans didn't have a fraction of the economic, industrial or military power of the IOUSA. Simply put, the all powerful US is an uncertain, duplicitous 'friend' ,  and the worst of enemies.

' Allies ' are subject to economic colonialism & manipulation , as practiced by US firms, which specialise in paying no tax , not even to the US treasury, and US entities such as hedge funds can borrow QE money at near zero interest rates and buy up assets in foreign countries, fueling asset bubbles and endless currency speculation - with friends like the US who needs enemies ?

 Conversely, if a country is declared " an enemy of the God's own country " then they can expect economic and military drone warfare. Intermittent inconsistencies like supporting Al Qaeda in Syria are answered by manufactured moral outrage against chemical weapons , which kill far less people than other weapon systems especially the 'bunker busters' the Israeli's use on stone throwers in Gaza, and the US uses on wedding parties in Pakistan — sorry , I digress.

 Chris and JR have now admitted that they have been wrong up till now but a crisis is still coming , but it may take a decade to arrive — exactly !!!  Chris has restated his favourite dictum that " he'd rather be several years early than a day late, which implies collapse will occur virtually overnight – very unlikely to happen — the 2008 collapse took over 6 - 9 months — need I say any more ?

 Now we are all going to die someday, and many an atheist has a deathbed conversion, but does it make sense for a sane young person to become monastic ? Investors and savers have a similar dilemma .     Are they to go to cash, store gold, guns and food, and retire to high ground, to watch all those other fools continue to make money in the stockmarket and real estate , hoping the economic tsunami will come sooner than later ?  Keynes said the market can remain irrational a lot longer than most can remain solvent , and in the end we are all dead. 

 "My enemies enemy is my friend", and the enemy of all major powers is a world depression driven by a collapse of economic activity.  Maybe this time it is different - maybe QE can go on much longer than anyone previously thought possible and that while there will be semblance's  of currency wars , intermittent precious metals mania's and real estate bubbles, the system will just keep morphing from one form to the next, and the main casualties of this will be the usual victims - the poor especially in the 3rd world and the environment. There is nothing so unpredictable as the future , and not living in the moment is the greatest mistake one can make with our limited lifespan's – this doesn't mean I'm advocating mindless hedonism — like the internet, TV, most Hollywood movies or various drug fantasies be it boutique beer, wine appreciation or ritualized sacramental marijuana use. 

 Reluctantly I have to admit that peak oil has been pushed into the distant future, and the only restraint on endless exploitation the massive undeveloped carbon sinks like shale oil and tars sands are economic and environmental > Just a small fraction of known coal, gas and oil reserves is enough to cause the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere to go over 550ppm and then its game over for the habitability of the planet. 

 So, Chris , if you so believe your argument, why don't you have a robust debate with Jim Puplava and his ilk, instead of the polite , non controversial , cautious , friendly conversations that you've had in the past. Call him out, and while your at it, challenge him on why he refuses to accept the overwhelming opinion of the world's scientific community on global warming. Remind him that global warming is an insurance issue – its a very real possibility, and the consequences of being wrong are toooo catastrophic to be ignored. Besides, investing in high tech solutions will be good for jobs and the market ( the latter is likely to get his attention) and saving some for future generations is surely a very acceptable concept for a professed fellow Christian ??

 The best information comes from a rigorous, in depth debate – where evidence and argument can be subject to the scientific method - validate the data , then validate interpretation of the data – all else is cant.

Cheers, GB.








I also find it very interesting comparing Jim Puplava and Chris M - both great resources but totally different styles and different angles on the worlds predicaments.While JP does interview a wide variety of "experts" I don't hear him really challenge those with differing views from his own. Neither he nor Chris are confrontational shock jocks. His interest (JP's) is in a shorter time horizon than Chris's. JP has indeed stated that financial collapse is highly probable but just in a longer time frame than a typical investment time horizon. And as Erik Townsend once said, his actions are more influenced by what he thinks WILL happen rather than what SHOULD happen. In other words I think of JP as illuminating a much shorter path ahead than Chris and JP's angle is very much investment focused rather than whole of lifestyle or holistic like Chris.
Anyway I sense you GB are caught like most of us in a kind of no-mans-land. Perhaps asset markets do have a way to go even further up before they crash. Sitting on the side lines getting out of debt too early we are missing out. 
Then again, I just watched this video on Australias ABC. From an outsiders perspective, collapse is already a reality for average workers in the USA.

That's a very insightful post GB. A few comments:
I agree that we may be missing out on life by preparing for armageddon. How long could this go on for? I have to admit, the 2 year decrease in gold price has stymied my plans for the future and I'm sitting, waiting, for something to happen.

From listening to gold industry insiders like Maguire and Sprott's math though, it seems like the physical gold market is on fire and that the only place that tonnage can be coming from is western vaults. What happens when it runs out? How do they hide that fact? What will gold price do when you can't buy physical anymore? What will a skyrocketing gold price to to the rest of the financial system? Will that happen slow or fast? I believe that China is very interested in keeping BAU alive for as along as it can because it wants to scoop up all the physical gold it can at cheap prices … until there's none left. And the treasonous leadership of the US is facilitating it.

I tend to think that these sorts of shifts happen very quickly, especially since TPTB want to retain as much control as possible. They aren't going to give anyone the opportunity to get out of harm's way when they see it coming. I don't think it's exactly correct to compare the US to Rome in terms of the length of time it will take the empire to collapse. They didn't have technology back then and this computer-dependent, imbalanced ponzi scheme has reached heights that would never have been remotely possible back then. The US should have begun its decline 40 years ago when it hit Peak Oil but the use of the US military and US dollar as the world's reserve currency, and increasingly now, computers to pump up the financial system, plus the media to dupe everyone into servitude, has allowed it to go on for longer than traditional economic analysis would suggest. I am critical of many things coming from Austrian Economics, but their assessment of the pure imbalanced system that the ponzi scheme is supporting is valid, and the more unbalanced it gets, the faster and harder it will fall when it des fall (the day after gold runs out?)

The economic charts, even those produced by the Fed, are now going exponential. Look at M2 and other such things. I don't see how those could level off and when they're exponential it won't take long for a major resolution to occur.

I don't agree that Peak Oil as been pushed into the future. We seem to be at it right now – global production rates haven't increased in 8 years despite prices basically tripling. What the latest statistics are, I'm not sure since I haven't been following since The Oil Drum shut down. I'd argue that in reality we should have hit Peak Oil 10 years ago, but the money printing and low interest rates supporting the last 10 years of the Ponzi scheme have enabled US tight oil production to ramp up at prices that would not otherwise be economic. In a normal interest rate environment, that oil would not be profitable to extract until say prices hit $200. But with low interest rate Ponzi schemes it becomes profitable at $100, in effect pulling future oil production back in time. Therefore, when normal interest rates return, oil production will tank even further than it would otherwise, because that tight oil will be gone even at $200, and we'll probably drop to production rates that we would have seen today had we hit the expected peak 10 years ago.

Oil shale is not being produced commercially. I'd argue that it never will be, since if they can't turn a profit today with 0% interest and practically free natural gas inputs, they never will. Regarding oil sand, the entire recoverable Alberta deposit represents 10 years of global oil production. and it is slow to ramp up due to its low EROEI and the fact that each deposit needs a factory built overtop of it just to extract and turn it into something similar to what used to squirt out of the ground by itself.

I also expect we'll hit Peak Natural Gas in the near future; its potential has been overplayed like everything else. Coal, however, remains a big question mark. It seems there may be a lot of coal left and that may represent our energy future. But we have no facilities yet that convert coal to oil on any meaningful scale so that too will be a slow and costly process – in other words, it means we are at Peak Oil today no matter what we do.

Edit: Just one more point. If and when the rest of the world allies against the US, and when the US trade deficit is no longer supported after the dollar is abandoned, the US military will be crippled and the bully will become increasingly impotent. This process could potentially get ugly (an attempted WW3?)  but America could not possibly win a sustained world war, it simply doesn't have the resources or manufacturing capability or even the technical know-how to support itself independently of the rest of the world. Without the trade deficit, the middle class would be destroyed and along with this, the tax base supporting the military. Therefore they'd have to print money to fund the war … certain hyperinflation. How do you fund a military with a hyperinflated currency? The military would collapse. It's basically game over.

World Bank Whistleblower Karen Hudes Reveals How The Global Elite Rule The World

Currency Wars leading to Military Wars. 'State Capture' via debt. New Currency backed by gold? Politicians are 'paid for' or blackmailed.

Thanks for mentioning Karen Hudes, the former Chief Counsel for the Bank of International Settlements.  Her reports, as a 20 year insider of the BIS legal department, has really added weight to the view that there is a powerful group of insiders that are ORGANIZED and consciously re-engineering the worlds social and economic systems for their own benefit.

"Karen Hudes is a graduate of Yale Law School and she worked in the legal department of the World Bank for more than 20 years.  In fact, when she was fired for blowing the whistle on corruption inside the World Bank, she held the position of Senior Counsel.  She was in a unique position to see exactly how the global elite rule the world, and the information that she is now revealing to the public is absolutely stunning.  According to Hudes, the elite use a very tight core of financial institutions and mega-corporations to dominate the planet.  The goal is control.  They want all of us enslaved to debt, they want all of our governments enslaved to debt, and they want all of our politicians addicted to the huge financial contributions that they funnel into their campaigns.  Since the elite also own all of the big media companies, the mainstream media never lets us in on the secret that there is something fundamentally wrong with the way that our system works.

Remember, this is not some "conspiracy theorist" that is saying these things.  This is a Yale-educated attorney that worked inside the World Bank for more than two decades  [and held the position of Chief Counsel, the head of the legal department]."

(source: Michael Snyder, Economic Collapse Blog)

If this is true, we all need to know about it.  If it is not true, we need to know that, too, so we can stop "imagining things."

Explanation of this subject heavily cite an academic study published in PLOS ONE in 2011 by a Zurich Team of systems analysts who looked at the control of the world's Trans-National Corporations (TNCs).

From Orbis 2007, a database listing 37 million companies and investors worldwide, they pulled out all 43,060 TNCs and the share ownerships linking them. Then they constructed a model of which companies controlled others through shareholding networks, coupled with each company's operating revenues, to map the structure of economic power.


We present the first investigation of the architecture of the international ownership network, along with the computation of the control held by each global player. We find that transnational corporations form a giant bow-tie structure and that a large portion of control flows to a small tightly-knit core of financial institutions. This core can be seen as an economic “super-entity” that raises new important issues both for researchers and policy makers.


A common intuition among scholars and in the media sees the global economy as being dominated by a handful of powerful transnational corporations (TNCs). However, this has not been confirmed or rejected with explicit numbers. A quantitative investigation is not a trivial task because firms may exert control over other firms via a web of direct and indirect ownership relations which extends over many countries. Therefore, a complex network analysis [1] is needed in order to uncover the structure of control and its implications


[N]early 4/10 of the control over the economic value of TNCs in the world is held, via a complicated web of ownership relations, by a group of 147 TNCs in the core, which has almost full control over itself. [mh-the center of the bow tie diagram, above.]  The top holders within the core can thus be thought of as an economic “super-entity” in the global network of corporations. A relevant additional fact at this point is that 3/4 of the core are financial intermediaries.

And in fact, a listing of the main "financial intermediaries" make up the list of the worlds largest banks. The top 20 included Barclays Bank, JPMorgan Chase & Co, and The Goldman Sachs Group.

One level of analysis that was not addressed in this study is how many actual PEOPLE control those 147 TNCs.  For example, I have heard (but cant find the reference) that David Rockefeller owns more than a 5% share of 105 of the worlds largest 125 corporations.

The lure of ruling the world has captured the imaginations of many throughout history.  And many of the greatest atrocities and injustices in history have been committed by apparently civilized and cultured men in the pursuit of world domination.  

Is this happening here again?

That is precisely what I meant when I spoke of a world government being an emergent property due to the Speed of Communications on the planet.
Welcome to the Borg.

It seems to me that the uncertainty that exists in our society has the effect of a taunt, begging for clarity and explanation. The public demands it - we are not good at handling uncertainty. Some individuals, like CM and the multitude of other people involved in the crystal ball gazing industry cannot resist the temptation here and there to make specific (often highly educated) guesses. Trying to predict timing is nigh impossible, but the allure of getting it right is strong, for the rewards are great. Perhaps we should name this phenomena intellectual gambling.
As we all know, the downside of any kind of gambling is huge, with the house winning most of the time. In so far as the predictions game goes the biggest downside is the potential loss of credibility for the predictor. It is for this reason that I wish CM would not make predictions at all, but instead focus on what he does best, which is educating and informing on the 3E's. That is why I am here. I know a while back that this site was voted one of the top 100 financial blogs. I don't consider this a financial blog. I consider it a lifestyle blog, my go to place intelligent discussion on a multitude of subjects, as well as a fabulous resource for learning how to prepare for the kind of lifestyle that a societal breakdown will demand. This is where I want the focus to remain. But it seems some times that there is an overweight to the financial stuff, at the expense of the other stuff - the stuff we can actually control and do something about.

I would like to see less featured guests and articles on financial topics on which we have little to no control over and which can be depressing, and more on subject matter that is directly useful to me and therefore inspiring to me. If we don't get a healthy dose of inspirational material to balance all the negative crap, we will all succumb to prediction fatigue and overdoses of doom and gloom causing us to start to tune out. I feel myself heading in that direction now.

As many of the posts have said, we get it and we believe it and we continue to prepare. Preparing gives me a great deal of personal confidence. To find my own balance in all of the doom and gloom I am reading more of the how to prep wikis and less of the interviews and commentary. It helps me stay on a more even keel.




I have been completely surprised at how long TPTB have been able to keep things rolling along.  I know that inertia is a tremendously powerful force and I subliminally realize the enormity of the wealth and power controlled by the governments and big banks.  After 2008 I truthfully thought we would go only a year or two before a new crisis would emerge.  Lately I have had to admit to myself that the folks in control are tougher (and probably smarter, although the verdict is still out on that) than I would have ever believed.
Like Jan, I have been concentrating on lifestyle changes and lately have been reading more about sustainability than about economic collapse.  The past few months I have actually begun to appreciate that things are not happening.  I have come to see every day without a crisis as one more day to get ready.  One more day to do something to make a difference.  I have also come to view personal sustainability as the way I want to direct my life, regardless of what the economy or the rest of the population decide to do.  In that respect crisis, no crisis, becomes a less critical focus point.

Unlike Jan however, I do still want to hear about what is happening in the economy and hear the predictions.  I find that if I do not have a little fear to motivate me, my personal inertia can take over quickly. In my mind, one more day to prepare evolves into, let’s put it off until tomorrow.  So from my perspective a little prognostication is a good thing, even if it turns out to be incorrect or premature.

This rubino guy seems to believe that 100% of the problems we are now facing are the fault of the democrats. If a commentator can't put aside their personal ideological extremism to look objectively at an issue, they aren't worth listening to.

Regarding predictions, I agree mostly with what Jan says, and what several others have said in recent comment strings.  It is very hard to predict when some big crack-up is likely to occur, so let's not keeping doing it. I have crash fatigue already.  And keeping the system going come-what-may at the moment seems to be the official policy and preference of those who control the system, so it seems hard to generate and useful historical data to provide insight on when or why that might change.  So prediction must include a lot of future mind-reading, a neat trick if it could be done.  Sure, things will change at some point but who knows when?  And in the meantime, we prepare, or rather we all have more time to learn how to live life differently.
But here's the thing, I still have bills to pay and kids to educate and all that stuff. I look back on how I've spent the last few years in terms of increasing my own resilience, and I'm really happy and surprised with how much I've been able to do.  The cellar is stocked, wood is stacked, beer is brewed, compost is down and we're ready for winter.  Which is all good and makes me happy in of itself. But it would still be nice to get some insight on what-to-do-with-my-savings in the short term, rather than focusing just on how to avoid a meltdown which has no predictable date.  I don't doubt the meltdown will arrive, and I'll be happy to deploy my new skills, deep pantry and hard goods when it does.  But in the meantime, some insight on what might be sensible financial things to do with my limited savings would be welcome in the context of the current financial environment, as rigged as it is.  After all, it takes $$ to keep me in a life of rustic poverty :slight_smile:


with regard to what to do with short-term $$$.Perhaps I should clarify something with regard to my earlier post - I think we should stop the "hard" predicting e.g. there will be a market correction on yymm. I think we benefit from general trend predictions that help us with our decision making e.g. food inflation and the whys behind it, such as increasing use of crops for biofuels. These are the kind of predictions that help us connect the dots.
I would hate to see CM lose credibility because he makes too many hard call predictions that do not come true. This would tend to overshadow his otherwise great work in helping people to see the light re what is coming down the pipeline. The last thing we need is a guy like CM to be discredited.

Didn't the commentator bring up the uncomfortable climate all politicians are in, Boehner's lack of political will, the cost of military industrial complex, Chris Christie types who stand fir nothing,  etc. a few times during the interview? I'll go back and listen, but I don't recall a partisan viewpoint to his perspective.  Both parties are to blame for the fiscal mess & lack of understanding on how to fix things.  For whatever reason liberals always seem to be more sensitive when their core ideology is called into question.

things seem to circle and recycle alot around here…a question gets asked and then answered and then ask again and again and again. i know it's hard to grasp the unthinkable but its here.
i think chris and others have pretty well made a case that the money is worthless…and so far useful in and as long as this economy keeps short term strategy for $$ is to have some.for this day to day economy. there is no good place to store and protect our wealth. period. they(tptb) have already taken it by devaluing it. we are already holding moldy bread, and people are still asking how to keep it fresh and how to save it… 

the preps are for the next economy when the above one collapses completely.and for now…it's already collapsing/devaluing big time.i use my preps daily right now…today.i have very low utility bills, and lots of my own healthy food.i don't have to watch the news so much and therefore i benefit greatly from that…

nice trick of the ptb to get all eys to "look over there" at a huge arrmagedon type collapse.and miss the collape that is currently occuring. while QE's are robbbing us all of our stored labor ie savings…

the fatique sets in because people have been waiting and looking in the wrong direction.



Ferralhen,Agree completely about the slow collapse.  It's happening now, has been for a while. And of course it's going to continue happening for a while as well, during which I still need $$ to function in the current world.  I agree also that at some point these dollars will be worthless, but right now they are quite handy for paying for some major changes in my lifestyle. The less income on savings I have, the more I have to work in an office typing stuff into computers, with less time available to work on practical projects at home.  It's not a huge problem in the scheme of things, but it's still something I have to factor in.


i guess i would add the distinction that i see the money as worthless now…it's just not marked to market yet. i see that as fragile and it not taking much to bring the true value into view. so i see a fairly rapid decline ongoing now  of the value(buying power of money) with the possibility of a quick(nanosecond) crash of trust at any time now going forward. just my guess and nothing's how i see the roulette wheel

the main economy is not the only one running right now…many underground economies in operation…i think they may help lessen the impact…but savings on a sheet of paper as we know it are worthless in the truest sense.that is why i busted my fancy to get things in place while the money was still reckoned as having value. what i have left can help me day to day but i'm not counting on it to ease my pain in the future, that is what the homestead is for…i'm expecting the pain. just being pragmatic.

in summary pointing out a rapid ongoing decline(the slow decline in the 80's, it's picking up speed) with enough fragility to expect a rapid crash.

Whenever I hear someone claim our money is worthless, I urge them to send me theirs.  I'll pay the postage.  I have this discussion with my wife from time to time.  It's important to remember that currently our daily lives are largely fueled by the USD and that doesn't seem to be changing very quickly.
The point is, it isn't worthless yet and it may be a long time before it is.  We have one big advantage propping up the USD, we are still the largest economy on earth by a considerable margin.  In fact, the current dollar value (compared to other currencies) is about in the middle of the range it has been in since about 2006, and except for a brief spike in 2001-2, not much below the range going back 25 years:$DXY&t=BAR&size=M&v=0&g=1&p=MO&d=X&qb=1&style=technical&template=

As has already been pointed out, don't be too anxious for the USD's demise, it may be a long time coming.  OTOH, it's prudent to have inflation insurance.


i believe i qualified my statement with it's just not marked to market yet. the fact that people ascribe it a value and believe it to be so doesn't mean it has any value.a lot of people thought the emperor had new clothes on but he didn't.
i also mentioned that i was using it now.

i think you might be hearing more of a black/white issue than i was saying.



Preparing is something that you do for an event of short duration, a wedding, a funeral, a storm, a vacation, a speech.  The world is asking something very different from us.  After the "collapse" will things  go back to "normal"?  Is this the kind of thing that some solar panels, cans of food and a few bars of gold can solve? We've done a little preping and are now standing around waiting for something else to happen?  The way we live now is destroying the world, have we given up on that, are we on to something else now?
Do we need to see "markets" collapse to understand that things have collapsed.  A young man from an affluent family and town walks into a elementary school and slaughters little children, we have collapsed.  Mega banks launder money from Mexican drug cartels and receive no civil penalties or retribution from the culture at large, we have collapsed.  Veterans come home from foreign wars and wind up living on benches in the NYC subway system, we have collapsed.  Bees that pollinate our farms have died off in record numbers and we still can seem to admit that the way we are growing our food is killing them, we have collapsed. A private cartel of banks has captured our political and regulatory system rendering them impotent, we have collapsed.  1.2 billion people don't have enough daily food, clean drinking water or any form of transport besides walking, we have collapsed.  The average age of a fast food worker is 29 years and they are making just over $8 an hour in the wealthiest country in the world, not enough to live on, we have collapsed.  Central banks are printing billions of dollars every month to try and blow bubbles in equity and asset markets, we have collapsed.  Environmental degradation is no longer an abstract concept, but is starting to fundamentally destroy our global economies and we act powerless to do anything about it, we have collapsed.

Are we waiting around to see mangled dead bodies?  There is a whole world to be transformed, there is enough to do to keep us all busy for a few lifetimes.  This not the liberal inclination to run around fixing somebody else's problem, its ourselves that we need to change.  The way we think about each other, the way we think about the natural world, our local and national government, our relationship with "things" and money, everything needs to change. Can we leave our fear centers and move into our heart centers and transform ourselves and then the world.  Can we loose ourselves so that we can finally find ourselves?