Here’s an utterly pragmatic question for those in the 48% who feel like the site needs to focus on them. Who do you think pays the bills here at PP? And why do they continue to do so?
PP provides a lot of free content for everyone. At the same time, it needs to provide value to those who pay the bills. If it doesn’t do this, the site dies. [I don’t have any special insight into how PP is run - I’m just making the usual assumption that any small business must provide value for their paying customers, or else they’ll go out of business.]
PP doesn’t need to focus solely on the bill-payers. And it doesn’t, as you well know. But it can’t neglect them, either. Unless of course it wants to go out of business. So if this kind of thing isn’t meaningful to you, skip it! That’s what I do.
For instance, Chris talks incessantly about planting a garden. I’m not in a place right now where I can plant a garden. Do I implore him to drop the whole garden thing, and focus more on apartment-dwellers, like me? No. I watch the garden material, file it away somewhere - maybe someday I’ll be able to plant one - but for now, garden-planting isn’t relevant to me.
And yet I still find a great deal of value here.
Glass = half full.
Granny, your comments really make me smile. As have John Michael Greers in the past which were given face to face. I share some of the “distaste” You seem to point to; largely due to my past not my present. However, Chris and Adam have gifted me with so much I really find it easy to overlook. I think Chris’s ability to empathise with the lives and concerns of the poor is very limited, but, that’s not why I come here. I would humbly suggest you consider the same…
Wealthy white males may indeed pay the bills here, but that’s a very small proportion of the overall population. And forums are great but tangential. We are absolutely not looking at the biggest, most important event in our history - a global economic collapse that will starve millions and impoverish billions while a few hundred thousand run for the hills and maybe deign to let a few of us plebs come work their land in a literal Neo-Feudalism. Whatever happens we can expect tyranny and mass death - unless we, the non-elite, openly reject it. Don’t think just because you’re an upper middle class prepper you’re in the winners club. This is so NOT about wishing for a return to the old exploitation that created and is amplifying the greatest wealth inequality in history and it has nothing to do with wether your laborer bought a $60k truck you can afford but he can’t. That level of privileged condescension utterly misses the point.
Firstly, not all paid members are privileged white males. Secondly not all of us grew up privileged. And for those who did perhaps some are the most prolific contributors on the site. I am sad that Granny chose not to take Adam’s challenge but hopefully others will. I would contribute. As would others here. Chris has immense information for people to be self sufficient, to live off grid and make their way with little money. Take a look.
This is so NOT about wishing for a return to the old exploitation that created and is amplifying the greatest wealth inequality in history and it has nothing to do with wether your laborer bought a $60k truck you can afford but he can’t. That level of privileged condescension utterly misses the point.Well I can see you are upset, but I'm...not sure who you are talking to here. I don't even own a truck. Or a car. I have used motorcycle, about 15 years old. No debt. "Collapse now, avoid the rush." Anyhow. So until götterdämmerung actually occurs, our founders must pay server bills, electric bills, tech support bills, and bandwidth bills each and every month. Or else the lights go out. Here's a thought. You can contribute here, or you can show us all how it is really done over at your new site. And fund it ... somehow...
My requests to have a financial report every other week that focuses on the working class does not seem unreasonable to me. The economy is worse than we are being told. Consider that the “models” said 2 million people in America were going to die from the virus. Didn’t happen. I suggest the same people are using models for our economy that are wrong as well. Our grave is being dug. Bankruptcies, foreclosures, unemployment, sales, practically no one is buying cars houses, airplanes. Oh, the exception is weapons. Did you know retail weapons manufacturers were considered essential. Yep, that should tell you something.
People are sheltered at home, comfortable in their houses and do not see the utter devastation. Just get in your car and drive around a city and look. Look at how many cars are parked at Goodwill and then look at any retail store. Our economy and the world as we knew it is entering a meat grinder and its only going to get uglier.
We are absolutely not looking at the biggest, most important event in our history - a global economic collapse that will starve millions and impoverish billions .....This is the biggest story in our lifetime. And all the well-to-do that supposedly pay the bills here (we all pay though) will see their life impacted and irrevocably changed as well. You all seem to want me to be content with the status quo. But the ship is sinking, the grave is being dug and ball is rolling faster. And because people are snug at home watching the FED and stock market they can’t see the convulsions and gasping that are going on. You may not comprehend the dire nature of whats going on and how it is affecting people, but you will eventually!!!!! Chris and Adam are basking in the warm glow of accolades, and well deserved too, I absolutely acknowledge that. But they live sheltered lives and get their information online and digitally. Devastation will show up online and in the numbers after the fact. After millions of people have been affected and traumatized. I know what your thinking, if I don’t like the status quo and am not part of the group think - go away. Just remember Granny and Urban Planner saw it coming. AKGrannyWGrit
If you are feeling left out because Adam focuses on investments that you can’t afford, consider looking at the other end of the spectrum.
I watched a 20 minute video yesterday about the Navajo Nation. I doubt many, if any, people who frequent this website are as impoverished as the Navajo, or as helpless in the face of this Pandemic.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-navajo-nation-health-care-cbsn-originals/
I can fall in the trap of thinking everyone has the choice to improve their personal health by changing their eating habits. Occasionally, I’m reminded that this is not the case.
I’m not sure where I belong …in the 48% or not? I grew up comfortable…then I was out on my own and very poor accepting handouts from a local church just to feed my kids. I always worked hard and grew organic gardens and was hand to mouth for probably 10 to 15 years. Then I started building stuff and was very good at it and have made some good income busting my ass for 40 years in home construction. I’m 69 years old and still climbing roofs and also I’m still growing my organic gardens. I’ve made some money through no fault of my own and I have some investments. My friends are rich and poor it makes no difference. Please Granny…tell me what category to be in.
All seriousness aside…I don’t view people through a lens of rich or poor. I see people as people …and honesty and truth are my lens for looking and judging.
OliveOilGuy,
Yeah, but, are you a white male, cause that still puts you in the only demographic group that our society tolerates criticism of.
Good Morning
Whenever there was work to be done and the bosses were all busy, I often took it upon myself to go ahead and lead.
This got me almost fired several times in the hierarchical fuedal system I was working in but sometimes big bosses would notice and thank me.
I do not know how to start a new forum. I couldnt figure that out…so I am going ahead here and if anyone knows how to start a new forum then perhaps we can transfer this info to that.
OK So I start the thread or forum
MAX Resources
This thread is sppropriate for all but focused on the needs, wants and issues of the “48%”
I guess most basically this list of links can answer the following questions.
1 How can regular (the 48%) people access more money during this time?
2 What are ways to “create” resources/more resources?
3 What ways can people access IN KIND resources or services?
4 What are key networks out there to help?
5 What sectors are helping beyond government and how to access those sectors?
6 How to stretch resources efficiently?
7 How to access free things and where to access free things?
8 How to access free services and where to access free services?
9 Can PP start an informal CRAIGS list sort of thing for the members?
10 Where to access others to boast moral and mutual support /groups/etc?
To start - here is a link
https://www.prepperprincess.com/
I have followed this site and find it really balanced. She has alot of very good ideas and practices what she preaches.
This is information mostly about how one can maximize the resources they do have but at the same time she invests for the future also as she can so it is very good.
Her ideas are within reach for most people.
In terms of me helping personally. I don’t have money but I make soap. I make soap from saponified palm oil locally grown here in Panama, sustainably produced. It is plain simple pure white soap with one ingredient - saponified palm oil - that is it.
If anyone wants some, I will post it registered post from here which takes a while to get to the USA.
Totally free - please PM me with your address and a contact number or email for the post office.
All seriousness aside.......I don’t view people through a lens of rich or poor. I see people as people ......and honesty and truth are my lens for looking and judging.OliveOilGuy This isn’t a rich versus poor issue. People are being devastated. Owners of businesses, workers, professionals etc. And yes a number of people are not in the stock market or have a lot of extra to invest, they are being affected even more. That in my mind is worth talking about.
If you are feeling left out because Adam focuses on investments that you can’t afford, consider looking at the other end of the spectrum. I watched a 20 minute video yesterday about the Navajo Nation. I doubt many, if any, people who frequent this website are as impoverished as the Navajo, or as helpless in the face of this Pandemic.I am not feeling left out because Adam focuses on investments I can't afford. Why do you assume I am poor, jealous and a victim because I point out that a huge portion of our society has been and is being harmed? The Great Depression has been talked about for decades! No one wants to talk about this one, I find that incomprehensible. What will it take before people say “holy shit” people are suffering? Guess we will find out. AKGrannyWGrit
Response to Granny, point by point:
- My requests to have a financial report every other week that focuses on the working class does not seem unreasonable to me. [Yes! Write it! I would like to read it!]
- The economy is worse than we are being told. [Yes]
- Consider that the “models” said 2 million people in America were going to die from the virus. Didn’t happen. [Agree]
- I suggest the same people are using models for our economy that are wrong as well. Our grave is being dug. Bankruptcies, foreclosures, unemployment, sales, practically no one is buying cars houses, airplanes. [Agree]
- Oh, the exception is weapons. Did you know retail weapons manufacturers were considered essential. Yep, that should tell you something. [Agree]
- People are sheltered at home, comfortable in their houses and do not see the utter devastation. Just get in your car and drive around a city and look. Look at how many cars are parked at Goodwill and then look at any retail store. Our economy and the world as we knew it is entering a meat grinder and its only going to get uglier. [Agree]
- This is the biggest story in our lifetime. And all the well-to-do that supposedly pay the bills here (we all pay though) will see their life impacted and irrevocably changed as well. [Agree]
- You all seem to want me to be content with the status quo. [Disagree]
- But the ship is sinking, the grave is being dug and ball is rolling faster. And because people are snug at home watching the FED and stock market they can’t see the convulsions and gasping that are going on. You may not comprehend the dire nature of whats going on and how it is affecting people, but you will eventually!!! [I can see it.]
- Devastation will show up online and in the numbers after the fact. After millions of people have been affected and traumatized. [Agree]
- I know what your thinking, if I don’t like the status quo and am not part of the group think - go away.
[Disagree…back in 2006 when Chris saw trouble coming, did he complain at someone else, hoping he could poke them into doing what he wanted if he jabbed at them often enough? No. He took action. He provided the content he felt was required to get the job done. He created his own website, crash course, and so on. He took action.
Now you have the chance to do so too. You can make a difference. Like all things worthwhile, it will require a fair amount of effort. Alternatively, you might just be content to only complain, trying to prod someone else into doing the heavy lifting. This is put up or shut up time, Granny. You have a unique perspective. How can you expect rich white men to understand the situation you see so clearly? Doesn’t that just sound crazy on its face?
So the question is, do you have what it takes? I suggest: take all the energy you spend complaining - that’s a fair amount of energy - and direct it towards providing us the bi-weekly commentary. As someone who provides daily commentary - let me tell you, a bi-weekly commentary feels like a vacation. Just saying.
I for one am very interested in seeing what you might come up with. I know something is wrong, but I’d love to hear chapter and verse. I hope you take action, and will not be content to just sit back and complain and hope some rich white man will do it for you.]
You are right, I will.
Chris talks about and teaches belief. I believe the motto of this site “Create a world worth inheriting” is the only way our world will survive! My definition of that statement means caring about people in general. Many, I think want to create a world worth inheriting that includes me and mine. And to hell with you and yours. My incorrect assumption is that the majority would believe as I do that only by caring for our brethren will we truly create a world worth inheriting. Evidence is provided in ever so many ways that the predominate thinking, including here, is creating a world worth inheriting focuses on me and mine. It’s disappointing that I do not perceive this site as being directed by this motto and treating it as a guiding principal but a tag line. Certainly, my expectations are the problem.
Challenge taken Dave!
Granny said:
..the ship is sinking, the grave is being dug and ball is rolling faster. And because people are snug at home watching the FED and stock market they can’t see the convulsions and gasping that are going on. You may not comprehend the dire nature of whats going on and how it is affecting people, but you will eventually!!!!! Chris and Adam are basking in the warm glow of accolades, and well deserved too, I absolutely acknowledge that. But they live sheltered lives and get their information online and digitally. Devastation will show up online and in the numbers after the fact. After millions of people have been affected and traumatized. I know what your thinking, if I don’t like the status quo and am not part of the group think - go away. Just remember Granny and Urban Planner saw it coming.Granny, you have been given this feedback before: your presumptuous and antagonistic approach often offends the very people you're trying to influence. Your claims that Chris and I live such sheltered lives that we can't see/can't relate to/don't care about the plight of the millions who are being crushed by the current economic impacts of covid-19 are so off-base and downright insulting. You don't know the paths we've walked. You don't know what's in our minds. Or that both of us have experienced poverty and crushing debt, been laid off, and have struggled with the financial and mental health challenges of supporting family members through bankruptcy, disability and loss of job prospects. Just on Wednesday I participated in a support group with small business owners struggling to find a way forward after their revenues disintegrated in March. And you clearly don't understand why we watch the Fed and the markets so closely. It's not because we want to "be content with the status quo" or "pander to one percent" of PP readers. It's because the Fed is the biggest villain in this story! More than any single party or entity, the Fed and the other world's central banks are responsible for the zombie economy that is now failing and shedding tens of millions of US jobs and devastating American workers' earning prospects. For years to come. Decades, quite possibly. The Fed is also directly responsible for the maximum stupid (the title from last week's market update) bubble heights the financial markets are at -- which is exacerbating the deeply unfair and corrosive wealth inequality in this county. As Chris and I have been loudly shouting: this "rescue" by the Fed and Congress is only making the rich better off while the remaining 99% is getting shafted. Until we as a society identify and admit the problem -- that the Fed is the enemy here *not* the hero -- we are ignoring the root cause of our pain and thus ensuring it will continue. You say:
they can’t see the convulsions and gasping that are going on. You may not comprehend the dire nature of whats going on and how it is affecting people, but you will eventually!!!!!That Plutarch quote we cite so much? We constantly repeat it because we are so concerned that this will end badly -- French Revolution blood-in-the-streets style -- if the current trajectory continues. We are damn sure NOT blind to the stakes in play when the elite starve the masses of their rights, freedoms and future prosperity. In just a few hours, I will be posting a podcast we recently recorded with Fourth Turning researcher Neil Howe on this very topic, including discussion on what steps we as concerned individuals (of all economic backgrounds) can do to help alter the trajectory or, should we fail, reduce our odds of becoming collateral damage. Granny, you have been advised repeatedly over the past months to find a more constructive tone that doesn't require us to step in as frequently as we've had to lately. The other posters here have been very eloquent and gentle in saying: Stop the chronic complaining. Stop the demands that this site jump to your tune. If there's a discussion you want to hear, start one yourself. As invited, you're welcome to use our Forums. Or as Dave suggests, start your own website focused on exactly what interests you. To that, I also add: stop the judgmental presumption. It's in violation of our Site Posting Guidelines and, as one of the frequent targets of your off-base criticism, I can say first-hand it diminishes the sense of tribe we value so much here at PP.com. Over 550,00 users have visited this website since April 1. In that time, there are perhaps only two or three other users who have required us to step in to moderate as much as we've had to do with you. There's no bandwidth left for continued attempt to "fix" your demands for satisfaction. Please take the advice offered in this thread. If not, moderator review is the likely next option.
Granny-
I will be very interested to read your material.
FWIW, I do not think there is anyone out there who will be riding to the rescue of any member of PP. Nobody will rescue the 48%, and nobody will rescue the 51%, no matter how much we collectively whine.
Instead, we have to figure out, for ourselves and our group, what actions we should take to make the best of the predicament we are in.
“I know what your thinking, if I don’t like the status quo and am not part of the group think - go away. Just remember Granny and Urban Planner saw it coming”.
I was thinking if you know what is on Offer here why are you looking for what’s not being sold? I’m guessing Chris wouldn’t go to the poor side of town for market analysis or commentary on the fed’s machinations!
You seem to be eminently more qualified to talk about the experiences of the poor. Why don’t you write something and send it to Chris? Perhaps he’d learn something and maybe post it? I know I’d read it.
Granny…I think it’s a given that people are being “devastated” as you said. And this forum is a template for action to overcome some of these problems. There are great tools here that anyone can use to improve one’s position. Chris and Adam can’t do everything to right the world’s wrongs, but they are delivering on their promise to provide honest, science based content as they search out truth. It is your individual responsibility to take what benefits you and your friends and your family and run with it. They are doing a fantastic job in my humble opinion.
I really do feel for you on some level because some years ago I became overly obsessed with my differences with how leading voices on this website were allowed to depict the nature of the precious metals markets. I eventually gave up commenting on that subject matter completely because I was simply banging my head against the wall. I came to terms with it, and I focus on the constructive instead. In fact, Dave and I have found lots of common ground through this pandemic, and I am glad for that.
That being said, one statement Adam made in his note to you really sticks out to me;
Over 550,00 users have visited this website since April 1.Wow! Our little truthy idealist resilience science-based community has exploded with newfound influence! What we write here has more potential red pilling power than ever. For me, this community offers a place to stay sane in the face of extreme cognitive dissonance... and the more each of us puts up thoughtful and thought-provoking constructive content, the better. I guess the bottom line for me is this; We all have frustrations with the way the world is. I had to change myself a bit in my approach, as described earlier, and I have been moving forward happily. What we write here matters - 550K potential readers strong! That is a gift. Don't look a gift horse (Adam and Chris) in the mouth : )
In the almost 10 years I have been here people have come and gone and been banned. Not one time can I remember you or Chris writing lengthy detailed posts to publicly shame another member. It’s interesting that I seem to warrant special treatment. Recently Crapper and Desogome (sp) were banned and you did not spend time creating and posting a detailed character attack.
I am admonished to stop judging and yet I am the recipient of a character attack and am harshly and publicly judged.
God grant me wisdom to discover what is right. The will to chose it and the strength to endure it.
You love the e-mails of adoration but bruise your ego or say something that offends you and you attack. The message is walk on egg shells or pay the price. I am too old to be told to shut the f-up.
I shall go. What I will miss are the members.
AKGrannyWGrit - and I still got grit!
Hi Granny and All,
I’ve been mostly too busy gardening and doing my office job (remotely) to read all the comments, but this debate did catch my eye. For my part:
I’ve been a paying member at PP for close to a decade. White, female, “poor”. (I own my own tiny house, tiny garden, tools, and excellent second hand bike. No debt, no car, no more travel, decent medical care, fabulous water, incredible location, plenty of joy. You decide.)
My income falls below or just above the poverty line since I moved here, so this has been a really large outlay of money for me. I’ve wondered sometimes if it’s too much, esp. in CAD.
So far I’ve stuck it out, despite content irrelevant to me. Clearly most people here have more money than I. My “big move” was selling a tiny condo and buying 1/8 acre in a tiny village, where I am VERY lucky to have a steady job with a tiny income. BTW, 1/10 acre can grow way more food than I can eat, though not so far, protein.
But a huge part of why I finally made my big move was PP. The big-picture is a critical part of how I balance and chose a course of action, and Chris and Adam specialize in that. So I stay.
A focus at PP on low-budget prepping would be awesome and lots of us know about this. I am fully booked, between full time work and running a market garden, so it won’t be me setting this forum up, but I will participate, happily, and I’ve learned a lot about homesteading in the past 8 years.
BTW, the free book Chris and Adam are offering used to cost money, and I bought it. It is a great book with excellent context-shifting content and I hope you all get yours and read it!
It’s not easy to listen to people go on about buying gold if paying bills is the struggle at hand. It really isn’t. The red flag of economic injustice kinda just waving there in your face… But that doesn’t make me not want to be here. I just have to filter a lot out.
More information sharing about developing our individual recognition and fostering of our relationship with primary wealth would be just great. That is the basic transaction isn’t it? How does an organism like me exist and thrive inside a biosphere like planet Earth? How does a community like mine accomplish this? Which parts of this lie within our sphere of influence? Sun, soil, seed, water, human attention, know-how and good will. That’s become my starting place. Thankfully, others around me are mastering animal husbandry, machine operation and repair, water systems etc.
A huge plus in the cultivation of primary wealth skills and awareness is this: a gratitude down to the bones for a lifetime on Earth, excruciating challenges not-withstanding, and knowing the joy of a human soul turned loose in this garden for a few decades.
Maybe PP can be a place where people with all kinds of relationships with all kinds of wealth can be, learning about the big picture and all its details together.