Hi ao,
I agree with all you say. It is very disheartening for those of us who have genuine disabilities, who want to be contributing, accepted members of our communities, and feel good about what we bring to the table, which as you pointed out, is often considerable.
It would seem work ethic has by and large gone out the window, somehow replaced with entitlement. I see it too, in so many different ways and it burns my butt, to put it politely. While there are many more like me, I think these days we are outnumbered by those who cheat. One need only look to our leaders and bankers to see that cheating is okay and acceptable with few if any consequences. Small wonder then that the average Joe and Jan are cheating as well - if you can’t beat the system might as well join it. It is a product of the times.
I am reminded of that excellent essay way back when by Charles Eisenstein, the essence of it being that it is society that is unwell, not us, and to not be okay with that does not mean we are the ones that are not well and in need of changing.
I do believe in Karma. Those who conduct themselves well and with integrity will be rewarded - if only with the inner peace that comes from being good people and living with integrity. Those who choose to cheat and all that crap, well, Karma will deliver to them in some manner that which they may deserve. (I am reminded of my former, very greedy landlord who treated his tenants terribly while building his wealth to buy an oceanfront home. There is now a sewage treatment plant being built right across the street from him LOL! I smile to myself every time I walk by… Karma indeed).
Thanks for chiming in. I know in the past we have had some disagreements. I appreciate your comments on my tenacity, and respect the thoughts you expressed. They do resonate with my thinking for sure.
Jan
I don’t mean to blame anybody, just stating the fact that government jobs, programs and employees are a net negative economically. Some of these jobs are necessary but the size and scope of what the government is involved in and thereby controls the influence of is way out of control. Just because computers have made things more efficient, it doesn’t make it a reason to employ more people monitoring worthless data or selling $500 toilet seats and hammers to their brother in law that is a NGO that is directly benefiting from fraud, waste and abuse. I know. I have a brother in law that is milking the system. I worked on equipment on board the Abraham Lincoln aircraft carrier and was training the “On Board” maintenance crew before they went overseas. They all had a 3rd grade understanding of the equipment I was involved with and they were the responsible parties for ordering the tools needed. They were handed a Snap-On tool catalog and told to get what they needed. $55,000 later they had basically what any mechanic would dream of, but they didn’t know how to utilize half of the tools they purchased.
I don’t understand why if the economy can no longer grow, the private sector can no longer make profits. The economy doesn’t depend on the government spending money to spur economic growth and profits. It is not the responsibility of the government to make sure everybody is equal. We’ve gone down this socialist path so far I don’t see meaningful change coming anytime soon. The government, in my observation, employs many if not the majority of people that those people cannot successfully compete in the private sector or produce something that someone else is willing to make an exchange for. (No entrepreneurial spirit or gumption to make something work for themselves, they just want to coast along for the ride counting beans, or processing permits, or being one of the 4 supervisors watching Jose dig the ditch) Or they are a part of the long lineage of self perceived elites that has successfully infiltrated governments since the beginning of recorder history to try and control other people.
If you can’t do, sell. If you can’t sell, go to work for the government.
I hope wall street steals every bodies pensions, especially the government employees. Without worthless fiat currency, a large portion of these people don’t have they skill-set to survive and many do not have the ability to learn something new, and that is sad commentary on a great nation, but life is tough. It’s even tougher if you’re stupid.
ao,
It's not for you to decide what constitutes a real or fake disability. There are far more claims for mental health (which impacts mental capacity, energy levels) and conditions like chronic fatigue, pain than anything obvious and clear cut. There will always be a percentage that do cheat, they are in the minority. A lot of health problems are invisible. Mental health problems, as well as chronic fatigue, pain can be far more debilitating than being crippled when it comes to working. Sometimes people have episodes when they can't work. It's not black or white - a question of being able to work 100% 0r not. Being able to do a little bit of physical work a few hours a week doesn't mean the individual can function properly in most jobs and work enough to cover expenses. I don't know what you have in the US, but in canada it's done by the provinces. Here, disability does not preclude paid work. There are people who can only work some of the time, work as much as they can and get money clawed back. Everyone, "disabled" or not should contribute to society to the best of their ability. Earning money btw doesn't guaranty making a positive contribution; people who hold bullshit jobs, whether in the private or public sector are a drain on society. We don't need "diversity officers" or people working in marketing trying to get us to buy more crap we don't need with money we don't have. We don't need "fund managers" who contribute but just gamble with other people's hard earned money and skim off the return.- fund managers who don’t contribute
It is unfortunate to see the finger pointing from so many smart people.
I am at risk. That is a scarey thing even with a level of faith.
I have worked in the private sector for about 25 yrs, and paid into a system that I know is corrupt.
I tried to leave corporate America and helped a friend start a farm. It was sucessful for him, but did make enough to support my family.
When I passed the denial stage, I entered the anger and depression stages. The way I allowed it to impact my mental state, contributed to my divorce. And the divorce process has already backrupted me. So, at 46 with 2 sons and a few bits of silver and knowledge of how to grow food, I see the paradigm about to shift.
I dont expect an answer, and even without material reaources now, I expect to help my sons and mom and step dad and brothers and neighbors, even if I don’t know how.
or I die trying.
Dave O wrote:
I am at risk. That is a scarey thing even with a level of faith.Dave - I'm sorry to hear of your tribulations. It sounds like life has passed you through a particularly painful wringer. I appreciate your honesty and emotional courage sharing this with us. While I've enjoyed the thoughtful debate this thread has sparked on the value and contributions of public vs private employees, I'd expected more folks to address the anxiety and angst you're giving voice to. As I wrote in the original post above, layoffs are gutting. And unless you're one of the rare people with a new job already in hand and a foot out the door when the pink slip arrives, virtually no one is prepared -- emotionally or financially -- for the instant arrest getting laid off throws your life into. Income -- gone. Routine -- gone. Identity -- upended. Future prospects -- suddenly much less certain. Self-esteem -- often shaken. It's a very unpleasant potential outcome to consider, because it threatens the comforting affirmation we tell ourselves as we fall asleep: Tomorrow's going to be OK. And just as the arrival of a Dorian-scale disaster shows us how fragile our usual state of normalcy truly is, contemplating a layoff forces many to admit that without their employer's paycheck, they're much more financially vulnerable than they're comfortable with. I'm harping on this because I really do want folks to go through the mental exercise of taking a hard look at their current job and assess:
- How impacted would I be if I got laid off?
- What would I do if that were to happen?
- Being honest with myself, how vulnerable is my company/job right now?
- Are there prudent steps I should be taking today to put myself in a better position should my risk of getting laid off increase?
I have to respectfully point out that when someone qualifies for disability in the US, SOMEONE has to make that determination. That is a judge and the health professionals who have been treating the patient. The judge is supposed to make her/his decision based on facts and data, not on opinion and belief. And that’s where I came in as the health professional. I did scientific and evidence based assessments and measurements that determined whether that individual was or was not disabled and determined the degree of disability. I didn’t deal with mental disorders, only physical disorders. Obviously, physical disorders have mental implications but the primary claims I would deal with (I’m recently retired) are for physical disability, not mental disability. There are criteria, tests, measures, data, etc. which are all too often ignored by the system but are quite accurate in making a fair and objective assessment as to disability. Just because a problem is “invisible” as you say, does not mean it’s undetectable. Gravity, cosmic rays, gamma rays, ultraviolet light, infrared light, microwaves, short wave radio waves, long wave radio waves, electric current, etc. are all invisible but are very detectable and measurable. Perhaps it is different in Canada but this is the way we do it in the US, for better or worse.
You state “There are far more claims for mental health (which impacts mental capacity, energy levels) and conditions like chronic fatigue, pain than anything obvious and clear cut.” Far more claims than what? Than physical problems? Do you have data for that? I think you’re conflating chronic fatigue and chronic pain but they are different entities and chronic pain is multi-faceted (although it is all too often treated, erroneously so, as a block entity). I know a little bit about this area having practiced for 41 years, lectured in 40 states, taught in two universities, written chapters in textbooks, published articles, and collected tons of data on chronic pain. From my experience and data, those who are not making 100% truthful claims are in the majority. From a psychological perspective, if you apply Paul Ekman’s studies on detecting deception, you’d find that the vast majority are lying about at least something. Often they can work or work part-time or do easier work but chose not to do anything at all. Just because the government makes a determination of disability, doesn’t mean it’s truthful and accurate determination. On the contrary, governments lie and they lie all the time for a multitude of reasons which are usually self serving. I would expect that as you spend more time on this site, if you haven’t realized that by now, you will in the future.
It’s interesting that in WW2, there were soldiers who lost a leg and went back into battle), lost an arm and went back into battle), were shot multiple times with one example having been shot 7 times (once in the neck, 4 times in the back, once in an arm, and once in a leg) and went back into battle but we have males of the same age who develop some back pain (which 80% of adults will in their life time) and they’re already bucking for lifetime disability. It’s shameful.
Adam,
Thank you for your work and focus on preparing folks for the possible future scenerios. I appreciate your kind words.
My life is blessed, regardless of the difficulties that most encounter. It is like camping in the summer. Beautiful and full of bugs!
The mental component is a huge benefit that this community has provided. I belive than many in the general population are incapable of looking past the human optimism bias. Once the predicaments of the future hit, those that have been preparing (even if mentally, like me) can be part of the solutions…
or maybe that is my optimism bias. 
Thanks for getting us back on track Adam, and to Dave O for sharing the heart rending story. I am so sorry to hear of your challenges. That is a bummer!
First, a qualifier to the discussion re disability. The system here in Canada is vastly different than the USA. You just about have to be half dead and unable to even hold a pen before you qualify. And if you do, you are limited to how much you can work before they claw back your meager, below poverty level payments. Believe me, if you qualify for a disability pension in Canada, you are living in hell. That being said, you will still be far better off than if you were born in, say, sub- Saharan Africa…
The biggest thing I can say to those who are facing the prospect of unemployment is to focus on cultivating your emotional resilience, for that is what will carry you through the hard times. Those of us who have faced great adversity, whether from a disability or other life challenge (and everyone has them, just in varying degrees) and who have managed to keep going have done so because we were able to cultivate personal and emotional resilience. Without that you will have a tough go of it.
Let me share some of my story in the hopes that it can inspire some of you who are fearful and afraid. In 2003 I was fired from a job I loved and was ideally suited to my profound deafness. Having struggled mightily to find my place in the working world, I was deeply wounded and floundered in my hope. My husband of 15 years was unable to support my emotional needs and we ended up splitting. I decided that it was time to pursue long held dreams. I left town with my worldly belongings in the back of a little Mazda truck. What started out as a few weeks off to get my head together became a two and a half year journey to rebuild my shattered self and confidence. I lived-worked on organic farms (Wwoofing) to help pay my way, which included 5 months in Europe. I had always known I wanted to live on the west coast, so when I returned from Europe in 2005, I landed here in Victoria. I had no job, no place to live, did not know a soul, had no family or friends.
I began to rebuild my life one day at a time. It was brutal at times, the mental anguish soul crushing. Options are much more limited when one is profoundly deaf, for you have had your ability to communicate and connect with other human beings severely compromised. I joined a Toastmasters group. That led to someone telling me about a great apartment for rent. My skills and experience got me a job - for 12 bucks an hour in one of the most expensive cities in Canada. I sucked it up and did what I had to do. I took over unused gardens outside my apt. and grew some veggies. I worked hard, lived frugally and kept getting up every time I got knocked down. I kept going. It was not easy by any stretch. But I did it. And I credit my emotional resilience which developed from facing so much adversity as a person with a disability.
Fourteen years later I own condo worth over 500K in a highly desirable area, with gardens to grow veggies & small fruit shrubs, developed a European lifestyle where virtually everything I need is within walking distance, I can walk home from work for lunch, and my car gets cob webs on it in between uses. Is it perfect? No. Is it great for families? Not likely. But it worked out for me and was worth all the blood, sweat and tears.
If I can do it - with the extra challenges of profound deafness - you can do it too. Sure, it takes guts and fortitude and a never say die attitude; things that are in short supply in this era of instant gratification and sitcoms where life is good again after 30 minutes. We all know it does not work that way. It is the work ethic and keep on going attitude that will carry you.
Do not delude yourself. If you have to start over again it will be perhaps the hardest work you have ever done in your life. Focus on building your emotional resilience. You can do it. All of you. Believe in yourselves and never stop believing. That is something no one can ever take away from you, no matter what. If you want/need more inspiration read Viktor Frankl’s book Man’s Search for Meaning. It is timeless and every bit as relevant today as it was when published.
And good luck!
Jan
I’m only partially prepared, and like Adam I really, really feel for Dave O and anyone in a similar position. So far I’ve been lucky enough to avoid falling into that particular hole. My sincere best wishes to Dave.
I think the hardest of Adam’s questions to answer is “Being honest with myself, how vulnerable is my company/job right now?”. I sit on the board where I work, and despite the fact that ours is a great, solid company with 3 major income streams and significant industry experience, none of us could say for sure how vulnerable we’ll be when the next downturn hits. The adverse impacts of global connectivity on local business is the hardest factor to assess. As are the local external factors which we simply can’t control. Professionally speaking, I work with a risk-averse mindset, and maybe because of that I’m quietly nervous for us. Aside from a spend-happy marketing department I think I’ve got us as financially tight as I think we can go.
In the last 3 months I’ve done something which I’d seriously recommend to anyone. I built a financial model [highly customised to my own circumstances], and I projected my asset position and net income to the age of 99. Yes, of course it comes with assumptions that I have no control over [like future pension payments and discounted cashflow rates], but that’s not where the value in the exercise is. For me that value lies in 2 things: 1) education & insight about my monetary habits; 2) mapping out my future options, relative to one another. I learned some eye-popping things about my habits and my future.
For people in situations like DaveO’s, the above exercise may seem redundant. It’s not. You’ll ride up & down emotionally as you assess each of your options, but I posit that you’ll mentally arrive at a point of understanding & acceptance relatively quickly. You can then plan your actions. My best friend was completely wiped out financially & emotionally by a divorce 12 years ago. [Luckily I found him after each of his 3 failed suicide attempts, and eventually I told him to give up trying because he was obviously shit at it. Ha! Thankfully he took the advice.] He has now financially recovered to a large extent, and he’s very happy again. So, recovery is possible, but I have no personal experience of the inner pain suffered along the way.
Adam’s point about actionable advice -: aside from the above, I can only recommend something which works for me personally. I do not use the word ‘resilience’. Instead, I intensively and actively practise being an extreme financial tight-arse*. This forces me to evaluate EVERYTHING that I spend money on, and it forces me to seek solutions & alternatives until I can absolutely do no more evaluation, and only then do I bring out my wallet and brush off the cobwebs on it. In doing all this I’ve realised that in the past 5 years junk yards have reinvented themselves in my eyes into goldmines. I also have no shame in asking businesses for free timber, pallets, cast-offs etc – most of them are happy to oblige. In the process, my practical skills and knowIedge have improved a lot, I’ve spent time with some incredibly knowledgeable & savvy people, I’ve toughened up, and although I still have a long way to go I am less underprepared than I was 12 months ago. I’m just going to keep going, learning, trying.
*I’m tight except when it comes to tools and education. I have no hesitation in spending extra on the best tools and the best education. Last week I spent USD$20 attending a fruit grafting class. I now have the knowledge to grow up to, say, 20 different apple varieties on a single tree, and I can use my valuable garden space for other types food production which will allow me to barter or give away. In the same class I learned how to produce an endless supply of mushrooms by propagating spores with glass jars and kitty litter. [No, that’s not a typo.] All of the above is good education for $20.
In summary, these are my most actionable advices, which I accept may not work for everyone. Also, I haven’t read part 2 yet, so apologies if the items below are already covered elsewhere:
- Honestly quantify, face, understand your current situation. If things look tough, assess whether you have a problem or a predicament [this is a crucial distinction];
- Identify deficient areas and decide whom to approach for help. [This may well determine your future friendships.]
- Economise. When you think you can’t economise any more then economise some more. Yes you can, believe me;
- Test one of your most vulnerable limitations in a safe environment, and be honest about how you fared. Then do it again;
- Life has taught me that quite often things don’t turn out as badly as feared.
Jan,
No I’m not from Canada, I’m just a hillbilly from the US… but I was at just about every Possum Lodge meeting on TV. And I had season tickets for the hockey team at college so maybe I can gain honorary status.
You’ve had a rough time but you seem to have rallied back hard. Sometimes that’s what it all comes down to: fighting your way through it and salvaging as much as you can. You can spot someone who has done it quite often, they have a unique mixture of self assuredness and humility.
I am not the be all and end all for any of it. But I do have a somewhat unique viewpoint in that I have seen and lived through some very rough times where they were widespread. When I was just a tike I saw what real economic devastation looks like up close and personal. In the early 80s the coal industry just about completely collapsed in Appalachia. It was all over and it was bad.
How bad? Watching the pillars of your community stand in line for government cheese bad. Seeing upstanding members of the community turn to alcohol and neglect their families bad. Divorce. Domestic violence. Despair. It all came our way. And it ended up blowing a hole in the demographics of my state that a child could find on a graph.
You know what separated those who got destroyed from those who limped through? I think two things: flexibility and friends.
Got a chance to work a month or two on a crappy job 2 hours away? Swallow your pride and do it. Live in a camping trailer and save your bucks. Your neighbor has some extra fruit or beans or whatever and offers it to you if you’ll pick it? Swallow your pride and take advantage with a smile. Remember him or her and send them a pack or two of some frozen apples or tomato sauce that you’ve put up. Give when you can, take when you need to. Wife got a chance to pick up a few hours at the local shop? Trade off keeping an eye on the kids so she can take her mother to the doctor each week. And on and on.
It marks you to see that stuff. And you carry the fear of it happening again your whole life. At least I have. If things ever get as bad nation wide as they did in the Appalachia of the coal collapse of the early 80s you will see things you would have never believed. But then again, I look around after so many years away from home and I have to admit that we have weathered the storm. The economy might not have ever recovered fully but the people have adapted.
Maybe it’s like my dad used to say with a smile “You give a hillbilly an acre of land and a water source and you can’t starve them out. You’ll never be rid of them.”
Will
Charles Hugh Smith just penned a very insightful essay on his dilemma as a 65 yo who is not financially able to stop working. I’m in a similar situation.
Labor Day Reflections on Retirement and Working for 49 Years
September 1, 2019
Let's start by stipulating that if I'd taken a gummit job right out of college, I could have retired 19 years ago. Instead, I've been self-employed for most of the 49 years I've been working, and I'm still grinding it out at 65. By the standards of the FIRE movement (financial independence, retire early), I've blown it. The basic idea of FIRE is to live frugally and save up a hefty nest egg to fund an early comfortable retirement. As near as I can make out, the nest egg should be around $2.6 million--or if inflation kicks in, maybe it'll be $26 million. Let's just say it's a lot. You've probably seen articles discussing how much money you'll need to "retire comfortably." The trick of course is the definition of comfortable. The conventional idea of comfortable (as I understand it) appears to be an income which enables the retiree to enjoy leisurely vacations on cruise ships, own a boat and well-appointed RV for tooling around the countryside, and spend as much time golfing or boating as he/she might want. FIRE retirees might opt for socially aware volunteer work or hiking trips in remote regions. Whatever the activities, the basic idea here is: retirement = no work = enough cash to do whatever I please. Needless to say, Social Security isn't going to fund a comfortable retirement, unless the definition is watching TV with an box of kibble to snack on.Charles then talks about the FED induced failure of the traditional strategy of 'retirement savings account compounding interest at 5.25%.' In an era of ultra-low interest rates and the popping of the "everything bubble" that will devastate pension funds, that strategy fails. Thanks FED. To quote Jackson Browne:
Don't think it won't happen just because it hasn't happened yet."So, what are the alternatives?
Which leads to another strategy entirely: focus not on retiring comfortably, but on working comfortably. Line up work you enjoy that can be performed in old age. -----This brings me to my personal adaptation to continuing work in emergency medicine as an older man. I have found a local community hospital that 1) is not a trauma center, 2) will permit me to work only day and evening shifts in exchange for working weekends, 3) is near my home, 4) only part-time hours, 5) employ an assistant (a scribe) to function as both a hearing assistant and to write the chart into the computer system without me taxing my aging brain cells to learn a clunky new electronic medical record (EMR). The hearing assistance is especially important for me. When the patient mumbles something I can't hear, I turn to the scribe with raised eyebrows, meaning, "Please repeat that?" I have also asked the hospital page operators to re-route phone calls to my personal cell phone which has direct blue-tooth connectivity to my hearing aids. All a part of learning to work comfortably as an older person. (And I am very, very, very fortunate to have ended up in a field that is desperate for workers with my skill set. There but for the grace of God, go I.)
Thanks for sharing Will! Great stuff!
One word you used - pride - really jumped out for me. I think that pride and its relative ego, are barriers that get in the way for some people when they hit the hard times, preventing them from taking a lower paying menial job with status that is looked down upon. For example, how many able-bodied white janitors do you ever see? Not a lot because of the stigma attached to that kind of work.
Many of you may be familiar with Brene Brown, who has done a fabulous job studying and explaining vulnerability and shame, which tie in to the pride/ego thing. An inability to show vulnerability, or to ask for help, is what holds so many back from doing what they need to do, especially in times of real need. We suffer needlessly when we let shame and pride rule us. I highly recommend her blog & books. They helped me immensely when I needed to understand more about why some things are the way they are for me.
It seems the whole self-help/spirituality genre revolves around seeing ego as the barrier that prevents us from doing what we have to do, and being the best humans we can be. It is a concept I believe in and try hard to work on each day. Easier said than done in a society that promotes superficial values, which relentlessly stoke the pride and ego higher and higher. Those who buy into it the most will be the ones who fall the hardest, and struggle to cope the most.
Jan
ao,
You can not look at people you don't know, and decide if they're gaming the system or not. You haven't seen their medical reports (which u seem to have blind faith in) and haven't been in their shoes. "oh, he can mow his own lawn, therefore he can work and shouldn't get any assistance". (ignoring the fact that a lot of people on disability do work but can't enough to make ends meet) Get real! Yes, there are tests, no they don't detect everything - you can't measure someone's experience. There are a lot of people who feel like crap but have normal test results. Health professional are narrow minded and think they're gods, can measure everything. They can't! There are also no objective tests for mental illness - it's all based on outward symptoms, inventories. Yet there can still have debilitating symptoms. There are conditions that weren't acknowledged as real which we know now are, like fibromyalgia. Victims of this condition were dismissed. There are people who have all the symptoms of hypothyroidism, are treated with T4 only, have normal blood test results and just blame the patient. Talk about having blind faith in tests and "treatments". The same is happening with chronic lime disease - something conventional doctors don't acknowledge even exists. The claim that government overlooks things is bullshit -> where I am the rejection rate is around 50% and they're tightening things up even more.https://www.ssdrc.com/5-72.html
…says in the states the initial approval rate is only 36%.
when things are getting bad it’s easy to find scapegoats. What gets paid out is nothing compared to what’s spent on unnecessary war and bailouts. you’re looking at the wrong target.
just have a weak constitution, while others do not. The coming times will separate the wheat from the chaff. Everything for everybody is utopian pipe dream.
Actually, I most certainly can look at people I do know (having seen them multiple times and also living in a small community where you run into people in a variety of venues) and determine if they’re gaming the system. And measurement and test systems are getting more and more accurate and can tell much more than most lay people think, if the testers and measurers are keeping up with scientific advancements. But I didn’t say health professionals were omniscient. There are good, bad, and indifferent. I’ve seen plenty of the bad and indifferent. I made up my mind I wouldn’t be one of those. I spent about a quarter of a million dollars (AFTER I graduated from 3 universities) on post-graduate education and continuing education to be the best of the best. You’re wrong about most of what you said in the post but I’ve learned in the past that facts won’t get you to change your mind. One of my “rules” for understanding how people function is that “most people are not rational, they’re emotional”. I would guess you’re coming from a place of being disabled or being close to someone who is disabled. That would tend to color your thinking with emotion. Also, in many cases, the Shakespearean adage of “Methinks thou dost protesteth too much” seems to apply.
The initial approval rate you quote is probably correct. But the vast majority of people have learned (or have been advised by their attorneys) to apply again. If they’re refused the first time, unless they are really obviously bogus, they’ll be accepted the second and third times.
There’s lots of misinformation about fibromyalgia and I don’t agree with a fair portiion of the medical literature on the subject. It’s overly simplistic and inaccurate. One of the textbook chapters I wrote was in a medical text on myofascial pain and fibromyalgia so I know a bit about the subject. There are both genetic and psychological factors that are very often involved, some of which can be changed, some of which that can’t. In most costs though, fibromyalgia, properly managed, should NOT prevent someone from being able to do some kind of work.
You presented a strawman argument on what’s spent on war and unnecessary bailouts. Wasteful government expenditures doesn’t justify gaming the system. And people who are on SSDI who don’t deserve it are bleeding the system big time.
When I see someone logging and getting SSDI for a physical problem, he’s gaming the system.
When I see someone sailing across the Atlantic solo and getting SSDI, he’s gaming the system.
When I see someone at a soccer tournament sitting for 2 hours in a slumped position and not adjusting his body once for pain and also doing skydiving where he can have incredibly hard landings and he’s getting SSDI for back pain, he’s gaming the system.
I could rattle off dozens of more cases like those just off the top of my head.
Pain does not necessarily justify getting SSDI. And yes, I’ve been in tremendous pain and could get into pain on a moment’s notice doing the wrong thing. I’ve sustained 15 significant orthopedic injuries to my body, half of which (based on imaging tests alone) could qualify me for SSDI. But I chose not to, for a variety of reasons. People need to do some kind of meaningful and productive work to have a sense of purpose and dignity in their lives. There’s nothing sadder than to see someone on lifetime disability, who is capable of working, whiling their life away watching TV, stuffing their face, smoking cigarettes or pot, drinking beer, etc. and not doing much else. Yes, that is certainly not everyone but it is way too many.
Too many people hang onto their “fibromyalgia” or “disability” or “such and such problem” as their identity. It becomes who they are. They even protect that identity if it is threatened. And they are often quite reluctant to part with it. When I was in that position, I made up my mind to assume the opposite mindset.
PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, when facing great adversity in one’s life, whether it is being laid off or being injured and possibly disabled, is MINDSET. MINDSET IS EVERYTHING!!! I’ve seen people in wheelchairs (paraplegics and even quadriplegics), amputees, people with severe progressive neurological disorders, etc. who were INDOMITABLE in their spirit. Despite the trials and tribulations they were facing, they made up their minds to fight it every step of the way and move forward, by whatever means possible. Only he is lost who gives himself up for lost. You do what you can for as long as you can and when you finally can’t, you do the next best thing but you never give up. I guess having grandparents who were survivors that escaped Communist Russia and Nazi Germany and a father who was a Marine Corps drill instructor imbued me with that mindset. It has served me well. YMMV.
You
Yep, I agree Mark, weak constitutions, poorly developed coping skills, etc. Yet interestingly, history is full of people who were sickly and weak when young who built themselves up to be physically and mentally strong and healthy adults. But some people don’t want to hear that story. They want someone to feel sorry for them. They want to tell their tale of woe. And that can be part of healing … to have others who have empathy and compassion for you, others that you can tell your tale of woe to and share your experiences. But a time comes when that must end. Unfortunately, some folks become black holes of emotional need. Whatever you give to them, physically, financially, emotionally, or otherwise, it will never be enough. They want more. But they don’t want to put in the personal time and effort to get it.
I had a very hard time getting ssdi, we were just this side of homeless. No-one knew what was wrong with me, you should have seen the form that I filled out, first form no help, took me months and months and it was pretty scattered, illegible, etc… You would think that the form itself should have been a piece of evidence about my disability ! The “exam” by the social security doc was a joke, and he knew it. How can you measure something like that ? It took me 3 times back and forth on the freeway to get the right exit, I kept missing it. I had trouble in the elevator. Dizzyness, etc… of course, and not getting the right floor. But, once I got to the doctor, I could answer his puzzle questions, I have always been very good at those and am high IQ. Yes, I can do higher level thought sometimes in short bursts, not enough to work all day, or at least, you cannot predict that I will be able to. I used to be an engineer. So, even with my other physical symptoms, and confusions, he did not qualify me, I mean, he didnt see me missing freeway exits and confused, only that I was late. I couldnt actually work, no matter what I tried. I ended up working a 4 hour shift at the farmers market once a week for a season or two, I did not tell the man I worked with I was in pain and often having visual disturbances. Then I spent the next 3 or 4 days on the couch.
Thank God for those disability lawyers, for one. And, thank God for finding another doctor who ordered a SPEC scan, that family paid for, that showed the lack of blood flow to my brain. Most doctors do not know what test might be called for, and quite frankly, what person who has been out of work for 5 years can afford a $5,000 co-pay for a test that MIGHT show the disability court a definitive physical result.
My diagnosis went from chronic fatigue, with no treatment. Then, the doctor who ordered the SPEC scan had also tested me for, and diagnosed me with Lyme disease. Concurrently A different doctor, and Osteopath had diagnosed me with fibermyalgia, which the other doctor woudl say, sure, caused by the Lyme, that chronic fatigue and fibermyalgia are discriptions of symptoms not cause.
Yes, the Lyme treatments have given me improvements. Not all better, never will be when not treated for 5 years. And, as someone else has said, it is very hard to measure or prove the symptoms that keep me from working, the lack of memory, confusion, anxieties, fuzzy thinking, word finding. The more I think, the foggier it gets, I can often do things a short time if not too tired, and it varies seasonally. And it is very, very real.
We still cannot edit. So then these things lead to secondary big health issues. 3 years ago a very upsetting thing I dont need to go into happened, and with my reduced thinking functionality I was having trouble processing and was overly upset. I caused myself to get a TIA, a mini stroke. I already have reduced blood flow, which is why too much stress or tiredness or interacting or thinking too hard to long gets me more foggy, I have reduced blood flow, I cant do that much at once, and tiredness or stress makes it worse. So I had the mini stroke. Then, I wasnt gripping the same with the outer fingers of my left hand, so I cant remember that, rely on gripping at the wrong time and end up falling off a ladder ( to my bed) and fracture my pelvis.
But, speaking to the points of this thread. You never know what will happen, everything I did years ago to not have debt and have lower monthly bills are what helped. So I am in a good place, I did not loose my house. There is fruit falling off the trees ( a few broke this year, I do not prune, or water them) it is pretty easy to grow greens. I put solar on the house before I got sick, so I have very low bills. Before I got sick I had sold my house and bought a lower priced one with an extremely large downpayment and a 15 year loan, instead of what other people do and buy too much house. The low income air quality program replaced my wood stove this year to a new clean burning LOPI endeaver, I love it.
Sure, unfortuneately my new place had a tick problem… but…