I agree with Hladini on the factory farming argument. It sounded like an endorsement for corporate food control. Maybe it was pitched in a sense for the unawakened who wont be able to support themselves, particularly those in inner cities. Im still an admirer of what CM is doing though!
[quote=Erik T.]After skimming these comments, I played the video expecting to see something akin to a used car salesman's pitch. While the style of this video doesn't appeal to me personally, I found no basis for objection. As Chris said, it's just a different style that appeals to some people.
JAG, I'm dumbfounded by your comments, but since you feel that way, I CAN offer you a solution. Simply ante up the $50 - $100k it would take to do video like this in a more tasteful style, and then you can call the shots and make the style decisions yourself. If you're not equipped to pay up, perhaps the option of shutting up would be an appropriate alternative.
Chris, thanks for all your continuing efforts. I look forward to the day that you have enough financial support to do these projects in your own style, but until that day comes, please keep seizing opportunities like this one to spread your message.
Erik
[/quote]
Erik,
For someone to give their opinion and in the case of some of the responses here - shock, I do not find the comments that far out of line.
To simply wave the, "pay-up or shut-up" flag is in itself disingenuous. I seriously doubt any published movie reviewer has the money to make their own Hollywood movie, yet they review movies all the same. Of course, their opinion does not sway me that much. I do not base my reaction to a critic's opinion on whether-or-not they have the money to make their own movie. I base my opinion (of the review) on the quality and content of the review. The same applies here. I don't have to build cars to be able to review their attributes.
I read these responses to the Pyramid Scheme Video and take them all with a grain of salt - even yours.
I couldn't finish the video either. It was too "infomercial" for me. I can say that I knew that the video was "selling something" from the very second that I saw it. Some people respond to that sort of thing, others don't.
And, there has been a shift in the flavor and tone of Chris' website since it changed format. I have yet to decide if it is for the better or not.
C.
To Rhare:
IMHO, for somebody so concerned about having access to the information (for whatever reason/goal), you are acting in a very judgmental way.
One: I never said what my decision in the dilemma was (if any). Live in different countries and through different collapses and you may have a better understanding of the human nature. To share or not to share and how much to share continues to be a dilemma whether you like it or not. Your comment: ” Tell or don't tell because it may give you a survival advantage” is out of context. I would never use information for my “survival advantage and I completely despise those who adopt this approach. I clearly said that I am against charging people for knowing what they should know in order to survive. While I acknowledge that the holders of the information need to make a living, and may have put a lot of effort to collect and share the info, one needs to take some distance and draw a line: when are we making sure we cover our expenses and when are we making a profit with other people’s needs and fears.
The next sentence: “ If you choose the third option, to hide the knowledge because others might panic, then you are simply being arrogant” shows no further thinking. Have you been in a country where a coup d’état is announced? Or a cut of water or power? Have you seen people’s behaviour? I may not be the best judge, and that’s why this is a dilemma. If it weren’t, anyone may decide to freely share whatever they found about the future. Would I like to know? Yes, for sure. I would also like to make sure nobody kills me or my loved ones because they think I’m in the middle of their survival and have something they need.
In the case of the predicaments we are in as a society, I have opted for sharing the information, as freely as possible, however, people still have the option to believe it or not, to speed up the collapse or to learn to cope with it. To destroy everything around or to start building communities and a new paradigm that ensures this won’t happen again.
The last is the most judgmental of all: ” If you are breaking into systems that are not yours, then you are a criminal. It doesn't matter the reason. Telling yourself otherwise is just another lie.” This opinion is based on the main reason we are where we are as a society: the “right” of private property. As we are isolated islands and whatever we create and do is just “ours”, as if we could “own” the land and its resources, and make profits with other people’s needs such as shelter, food, water, safety…
Well, information that affects your survival and that of your loved ones should be free. Keep that kind of information locked is criminal. Protecting somebody who is hoarding weapons and plans to kill innocent people because he/she has the “right” to have “private” information is criminal. Protecting the files of a child abuser is criminal. What’s the difference between the police or a country’s intelligence service breaking into your system, your house, your possessions looking for evidence and the same being done by a community of concerned citizens? Do you know that when the police or the government agencies do that they may have obscure reasons to silence or incriminate you? Have you lived in a country where you need to use “hackers” techniques to scream out what’s going on in the country so others outside may know and help?
I think we agree in a very fundamental value: the right to be informed. That’s why we are here. And BTW, I was a PeakProsperity paid for service member, but had to make the decision between using $30/month to read more interesting articles, or invest those on learning useful skills and building up my pantry stock. That doesn’t make me less member or less important my opinion on how information that affects our future is being managed.
[quote=rhare][quote=rocketgirl2]
I'm just shaking my head at CM. The only redeaming aspect IMO are the folks who are still new to The Three E's and the fact that they will still benefit from the free content on this site. The rest of us who have followed CM and his team, have seen the undeniable evolution of CM and some will still approve but the rest of us (myself included) are wondering what the hell just happened.
[/quote]
What happened is that to keep a website running and to produce content cost money. While it's free to you I can guarantee Chris has put a ton of money into the website, content, seminiar development, etc.
Are you a paying member for CM.com? If not then you have no right to complain at all. You are being given a gift, you can either accept it or ignore it, but complaining about it is just plain rude and disrespectful. This is like someone inviting you over to their house for dinner and complaining about the way the food was cooked or the quality.
I assuming this means we won't be seeing any further comments from you on this site since clearly it's a waste of your time and you certainly wouldn't want to associate with us non-thinking individuals.
[/quote]
To all the +9 and possibly more going forward, shame on you and congratulations, you all look like a bunch of country club snubbed nosed pinkie raised chicken clucking stuffed eared closed eyed self rightious snobs. Yep, I went there. Oh yeah, cottonheadedninimuggins too !!
[Moderator's note: This user has been contacted.]
Although there is some good information presented I have fundamental problems with the mentality and morality presented by these three gentlemen, which is a reflection of the deeper problems of capitalism (and more precisely or entire monetary-based economic model). What they present are not solutions to the coming crisis, but ways to profit off of them. They think in American-centric, survival-of-the-fittest terms, when our challenges are global in nature and require global collaboration.
Below are some quotes from the end of the presentation, beginning at the 67:27 mark, and my comments in brackets.
Dr. Kent Moors:
“If you accept the realities of what’s in front of all of us and plan accordingly you could come out way ahead.” [Ahead of whom? For some to be ahead, that must mean that others are behind. So I guess its just a mad dash to the top of the hill, where there’s not room for everyone, but only those with resources or money or inside knowledge to begin with.]
“Even though the days of easy oil have come and gone their are huge opportunities for oil and energy related investments for americans.” [This is profiting off of scarcity. So we shouldn’t invest in alternative renewal energies for the good of our children and grandchildren, but instead only in what’s going to make us money here and now. And he’s thinking only about Americans, what about people in the rest of the world? I guess they are just screwed.]
“We are going to broaden our drilling, we’re going to have more pipelines. And as oil becomes more expensive there will be more windfall possibilities.” [To hell with environmental consequences as long as we can profit.]
“Natural gas is dirt cheap now. Americans should get into natural gas now. You may just find yourself quite wealthy, even as this pyramid scheme collapses.” [Again, thinking about only about Americans when our problems are global and affect everyone everywhere. Again, profiting off of the collapse of civilization, rather than trying to prevent it. And not everyone can buy into natural gas. If everyone did then the prices would go through the roof. So its only for the first comers or those with wealth to begin with, sorry about everyone else.]
Chris Martenson:
“You need to get into food, farmland, water, utilities, plus prescious metals like gold and silver.” [Again, profiting off of all the things that are becoming scarce, rather than addresing the scarcity. I work for a company that has significant water rights, and they can’t wait until it becomes scarce enough so that they can profit]
.
Keith Fitz-Gerald:
“We’re about to be struck by a very serious crisis that will lead to tremendous realignment of social, political and economic capital. Its going to negatively impact literally billions of people. But instead of taking a doom and gloom mentality, lets look at this crisis for what it is, the mother of all opportunities. You can not only survive the collapse of the pyramid scheme, you can come out of it wiser and wealthier than ever before.” [No reason for doom and gloom as long as you are one of the lucky ones, but for the remaining billions of people, you’re screwed. How can anyone feel wise and wealthy and non-gloomy when billions are suffering? And how can one not see that when the shit hits the fan to the extent that billions are affected, it affects you’re own security as well.]
Although I generally agree with the notion that we are in the midst of a collapsing pyramid, these gentlemen represent the mentality and ethnocentric morality that is largely what created the pyramid in the first place. And as far as fear mongering goes, well it helps the bottom line right.
It is time to move beyond capitalism and money altogether. This is why I am looking for the more positive future as envisioned by Charles Eisenstein’s gift economy and the Zeitgeist Movement’s vision of a world beyond money altogether. It is utopian to think we can go on the way things are.
Guys, please continue to be civil. If someone has a concern you don't agree with, let's just hear your reasoned argument against that concern - without the ad hominems or the "GTFO if you don't like it" poopy that can feel threatening or unwelcome.
Atttack words are out of line and unwelcoming in a forum where we need to make people feel safe to come visit and want to share their views. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, and I'm sure being civil is the best way to honor Doc Martenson's own goals for inclusiveness. Thanks.
Poet
[quote=Poet]Guys, please continue to be civil. If someone has a concern you don't agree with, let's just hear your reasoned argument against that concern - without the ad hominems or the "GTFO if you don't like it" poopy that can feel threatening or unwelcome.
Atttack words are out of line and unwelcoming in a forum where we need to make people feel safe to come visit and want to share their views. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, and I'm sure being civil is the best way to honor Doc Martenson's own goals for inclusiveness. Thanks.
Poet
[/quote]
Oh yes, because The Pyramid Scheme video was sooo classy. Alright, I take back cottenheadedninimuggins but the rest stands.
One more thing, the video wasn't about trying a certain "style" that might appeal to a certain type (what type would that be anyway?), it was about trying a new way to market people and remind them once again why they should be affraid. The Three E's are credible and there's money to be made off of it so step right up because you'll want to be unique before your not. Very sad.
[Moderator's note: This user has been contacted]
A guy goes to LA for a few days for a wedding and to visit friends and has very little internet connectivity (read as Mrs. Dogs has waaaay too much on our collective Social Calendar).
Can anyone succinctly explain to me what the fook this thread is about and why a whole ton of long term posters evidently have their bowels in an uproar?
The way I see it:
Chris decides to evolve HIS site in an effort to throw the Crash Course message out there even farther and to more people. Some other dudes help and put it in a slick marketing package with bells, whistles, moving parts and free puppies. Not all of these appeal to everyone, but they appeal to a lot and a message that needs to be disseminated more widely is. Some other dudes maybe make a little coin off the effort, but Crash Course runs across the eyeballs and brainballs of a lot of new folks.
Good on ya Chris…
But if that goober meteorologist from CNN who STILL doesn't understand the difference between radiation and contamination comes wading in with his hand waving and bogus information, I'm not explaining the difference again…
I recently cancelled my country club membership. So there!
I agree. We must move forward together! You first. . .
Is this rancor why we're not allowed to discuss spiritual/religious viewpoints on PP?
[quote=thc0655]Is this rancor why we're not allowed to discuss spiritual/religious viewpoints on PP?
[/quote]
No, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with climate change.
The world is secretly ruled by reptilians and this is all part of their master plan to terraform the Earth to be warmer and more humid for their people. Only if you Pile in a Dogs and smoke some THC might you be saved.Poet
For what ever it's worth, which is not much, I trust the Martenson team's judgment over mine, but as a paying member, I just have to admit that I was disappointed in the film. While I appreciated the message, all I'll say is I can't recommend the film to anyone as the hard-sell approach was just too over-the-top, repetitive, and suspect in transparency for newbies for me to recommend. I will still recommend Chris Martenson's message through the Crash Course.
I watched the video. It wasn't my favorite work of Chris' but as he said he's looking for constructive feedback. I enjoy Chris' style of writing and his interviews that he does one on one with his guests to this site. I always read everyone's comments and insigths. Those are the areas where I feel I learn something valuable; something I can apply to my life now or in the near future.
There were some interesting ideas that were talked about but where I felt a disconnect was the sell side of the video. I understand that companies, even after a collapse of the banking system would need access to capital and so the markets in some way would carry on. If the SHTF in a really big way then I guess not so much.
I don't think Chris marred his integrity with this effort. He took a calculated risk.
We all found this site, this online community because something drove us to question the truthfulness and validity of what we see going on around us in the world. What lies in front of us is a journey we will all take to together, for better or for worse. It will be what we make of it.
To PP,
i haven't been here long so I did wonder if the new name, and the statement "Insights for Prospering as our World changes" meant that this site was moving away from it's original mission somehow. My initial impression was that the idea was to raise awareness about our current economic energy and environmental crises, and also to teach people how to prepare. And I was impressed and incouraged by the message presented here, and the fact that CM was asking veiwers of the CC to voluntarily donate to the cause. And I certainly understood that at least part of the original message was to make people aware of ways to protect their assets. I also understand that CM & company need to make a living and a profit as well. But I have recently attempted to introduce The CC to several young, and I guess I would say well educated and "progressive" type folks in my community. And I'm discovering that the new title (and certainly now the new video) is turning them off as they seem to get the impression that I might only be out to profit from this crises. Or that this site is aimed at "wealthy investors" or something. It's already a dicey proposition at best trying to convince someone you just met, and who has hopes for a bright future that the World's way crazier and messed up than they already know. And this puts me in the uncomfortable position of trying to defend the site despite the "capitalise on the coming crash" message I think people are now getting from their initial introduction here. I don't think that this is so much of an issue if someone has been a member here for some time, or if they have done a lot of prior reading on these topics like I have. But I would like to try to get a resiliancy group going in my new community and of course not everyone I approach will have assets to protect let alone money to invest. I believe that there is a confusion caused by using the two perhaps conflicting statements; "Prospering as our World changes" and "Creating a World Worth Inheriting". I understand that it is impossible to please everyone. I only wish to point out that while PP recently announced a new kind of mission statement, I believe that further clairification of your primary message would be helpful. John
very disappointed … no fast forward on video and when you close the window I get a 'standard' message that I have seen on other things that have wasted my time previously … I looked at this to see if I would forward to other friends … sorry - not this one …,
Greg
[quote=thc0655]Is this rancor why we're not allowed to discuss spiritual/religious viewpoints on PP?
[/quote]
Yes.
This is a relatively simple topic; we're trying new things here.
Unfortunately this conflicted with a variety of belief systems ranging from people's beliefs about me and who I am to ideas of social fairness and justice.
If such a realtively easy topic cannot be managed without driving some people away in a storm of self-generated emotions, imagine if we progressed into more deeply entrenched belief systems like religion or (shudder) politics.