I can appreciate that Chris et al. were testing a different type of opportunity in order to reach out to a larger audience by taking part in the Pyramid Scheme Video; I certainly understand the motivation. However, after watching this video, I am now (sorry to say) embarrased to even recommend Peak Prospertity to others lest they happen to stumble upon this video. To my mind, it denigrates the orignial message of the three E's. It feels to me that this is something like selling your soul to the devil. (Understanding, of course, that there was no money in it for PP but it was a "sell" for other benefits) I suppose, metophorically speaking, if you can get some of the devil's money to use for the Lord's work, that's okay if you are using it to carry on the Lord's work. But for me, as a regular reader and registered on the CM>PP site since 2008 (registered under a different name that I then lost track of), my level of trust in the site has just been taken down a notch.
Hi Chris and all you Most Excellent PP Posters -Well, this experiment certainly has generated plenty of feedback! I remain enlivened by your intention to reach many people with the 3-E information Chris. I find it motivating and heartening that you are on that track.
I also really feel the concerns some people are expressing about the presentation and even the new website being too something. I would ask you to remember that we have all been being led down the garden path into a real monstor of a jungle by highly paid, highly skilled government and corporate manipulators all our lives and that some of us might be kind of sick of that flavor. We love you for many things, especially your integrity and clarity with the 3 -E information. I personally don't need any more marketing or emotional manipulation in my life (though I will most certainly get it!).
Ideas of social fairness and justice belong in our discussions here as far as I'm concerned. The longing within us for a fair world is deep and too close to the heart to be dismissed. Of course these topics will generate strong emotions and expose beliefs. We have also all been participating in an excruciatingly unjust world all our lives and some of us are sick to the soul with that too. The fact that wealth and investments as they currently exist require plenty of social injustice (and destruction of our habitat) is very challenging, but we think about challenging things here, no?
For the record, I am not here to learn how to get rich, (or richer, compared to the great majority in the world) off of coming crises. I am here to learn how to protect myself and those I love by becoming less dependent on broken systems, and to participate in building a world worth inheriting. I think you nailed it there Chris. Integrity and social fairness are both foundation stones of that world.
So what's my point… Please don't dismiss us while we have our self-generated emotional storms. We might be grappling with real issues that are pertinent here, possibly even concerns that could be a contribution to the website and community.
Thanks as always for the reams of excellent information you seek out, and to the PP community for the high quality posts I always find here.
Susan
PS Still interested if anybody has been getting NON-Peak Prosperity feedback about the pyramid presentation. Are people liking it? Learning from it?
that the video is actually full of very valuable info and delivers a well constructed intro/body/conclusion. The concurrent peak environment aspect was especially compelling for me. The problem in my opinion is that it doesn't expand the audience due to the glossy info-mercial like qualities - to a first time viewer with their guard up, I'd be stunned if they watched it till the end, especially without the ability to pause/start - the "boiler room" feel was palpable. If you trust CM and/or the person who told you "you need to listen/watch this", then the arrow finds its target.
Maybe if CM added an intro with a down-to-earth message the new viewer could focus on the message and not fixate on the "what are these guys trying to sell me" feel. 10 for content, 2 for execution. Overall score of 6. Just callin 'em like I see 'em.
Never touched the stuff even once.
My trips are fueled by capsaicin at levels found in the bhut jolokia Ghost pepper and Trinidad Scorpion Tail pepper.
Pop one of those suckers in your mouth, chew, swallow (and cry) and you are in for one significant emotional event.
Amen to that Chris. One of the things that the site is exposing is just how many belief systems are in fact challenged. Of course you are on the exact right track because those beliefs must be challenged if we expect change to occur.And as difficult as it can be in sticking with the three Es, whenever you try something new on the delivery and it causes a backlash of sorts, know that you are on the right track. And keeping religion and politics away from the core isses IMHO is paramount to success.
I support the viewpoint expressed by Rector and others as regards the presentation. While the style of the new video is not for me, I know there are many many folks out there who honestly lap up that approach. The key point here is getting the word out and reaching as many as possible. Good on ya mate!!!
Coop
[Hidden - Jason]
My Ghost pepper plant looks lovely, happy and green, but no peppers. However my much smaller Scorpion plant is loaded! I've been feeding them to friends and family. Those peppers go a long way… I like the flavor, but boy do you have to like hot. I also torture the plant - I yell at it and don't give it water until it's wilted, so it's a very very angry pepper…
So do you just eat them straight? I can do that with a lot of peppers, but the Scorpions I need some humus and crackers.
Have you guys ever wondered what one of the most common (if not the most common) forum topic in this communtiy has been when people first come to this site?
Many newcomers to this site, the first things on their mind is what to do about ttheir 401(k) or IRA or other retirement investments and they create forum topics to ask about it.
I don't blame them. They've been jolted by the 2008 crisis that led to the March 2009 lows. They know the economy isn't functioning right, etc. So they are motivated by fear and they are looking. They are wandering and lost. Some of them look to Glenn Beck, others to survivalist web sites and bloggers out there, etc. I think that's the audience Chris is trying to reach.
The book and this web site have a positive spin, and that includes learning to build resilience and learning to invest differently. We want them to come here. But how do we get them to come here? Through word of mouth, sure. But possibly also by reaching people through the the Money Map Press video. But once they read the book and read the "unpublished chapter" and come here, they'll be seeing a much different focus. And when they come here, they'll see even more of that.
Poet
[quote=Poet]Have you guys ever wondered what one of the most common (if not the most common) forum topic in this communtiy has been when people first come to this site?
Many newcomers to this site, the first things on their mind is what to do about ttheir 401(k) or IRA or other retirement investments and they create forum topics to ask about it.
I don't blame them. They've been jolted by the 2008 crisis that led to the March 2009 lows. They know the economy isn't functioning right, etc. So they are motivated by fear and they are looking. They are wandering and lost. Some of them look to Glenn Beck, others to survivalist web sites and bloggers out there, etc. I think that's the audience Chris is trying to reach.
The book and this web site have a positive spin, and that includes learning to build resilience and learning to invest differently. We want them to come here. But how do we get them to come here? Through word of mouth, sure. But possibly also by reaching people through the the Money Map Press video. But once they read the book and read the "unpublished chapter" and come here, they'll be seeing a much different focus. And when they come here, they'll see even more of that.
Poet
[/quote]
Poet,
Very observant of you to notice that. I never did. It wasn't until you pointed this out that I realized that when this (newbies asking 401k advice) occurred, that my eyes glazed over and I moved on, simply because I've got no investments. It wasn't relevant to me.
But it does explain Chris' propensity to deal with this topic: it's relevant to a wide audience. And for me it sheds a new light on some of his actions that he's taken heat for, namely this video and his association with financial advisors. The cynical among us apparently see his actions as self-serving when in reality it may be that he's just helping out his members. Which viewpoint is most consistant with his general demeanor? IMHO it's clearly the latter.
Thanks for the insight.
[Hidden - Jason][quote=rhare]
My Ghost pepper plant looks lovely, happy and green, but no peppers. However my much smaller Scorpion plant is loaded! I've been feeding them to friends and family. Those peppers go a long way… I like the flavor, but boy do you have to like hot. I also torture the plant - I yell at it and don't give it water until it's wilted, so it's a very very angry pepper…
So do you just eat them straight? I can do that with a lot of peppers, but the Scorpions I need some humus and crackers.
[/quote]
Insp. Gadget -
Picked up the Ghost, looked at it and bit the bottom half off. Got about 1/3 of the placenta and thankfully very few seeds.
Hiccups within 5 seconds - very good smokey citrus taste. Then the heat started to build and I went deaf for about 5 minutes.
I will send you some of my ghosts if you want…I can dry them or pick a few just before they get ripe so they will be ready when they get to you.
Patiently waiting for the Trinidads to come in. White habaneros are almost ready to be converted into white hab peach salsa. Probably in the next couple of weeks. I'll send you a jar of that as well.
Apologies to all you uber serious, brow furrowers and hand wringers for the thread jack.
It happens…you'll get over it.
It has been an unending topic of interest for me. It's all part of being nimble.
Doug
Wow! What a response!
I personally didn't prefer this video because the presentation style isn't my favorite. But it will appeal to others, and that's the point.
I can see nothing wrong with trying to reach an expanded audience by any means necessary, as long as the message is true.
Many people (including Chris) first came to this information through fear. Although it is not healthy to hold onto fear, we cannot ignore the avenues by which people are awakened to a message. I say it is better to spread a true message by any means, rather than not have it heard by a person who could have benefitted.
It seems to me that it is an UN-thinking individual who relies on appearences instead of facts to judge credibility. If the guru doesn't look the part, then his message must be discredited? It is precisely because of unthinking people that appearences and drama are important. If the world were populated only with thinking people, then correct ideas would be accepted no matter who spoke them.
I detect some moralism here which may not relate to the actual matter at hand. For the sake of argument let's assume the answer is "yes." What of it?
It is certainly wrong to take advantage of people's fear to sell them misinformation. But must every purveyor of truth take a vow of poverty? Who says?
Chris has always provided the essential elements of his theory for free. He also sells some additional services for a fee. Is it only OK for him to make a living doing what he loves, as long as he doesn't make too good of a living?
I don't know, but isn't that beside the point? Why aren't we asking whether the message is true, and whether this will help to spread it? Why the personal emotional reactions? All this despite the fact that Chris was quite clear that he is NOT making real money from his appearence in this video, and has nothing to do with selling the finished product.
I have been a member here for about 3 ½ years. I seldom comment but this is the first place I go every day when I turn on the computer. I am surprised that this topic generates so much emotional energy.
I viewed the Crash Course early on and then got a number of the members of my church book discussion group to do the same. We then fashioned a summer service around the three Es and brought the concepts to the whole congregation.
The Crash Course inspired me to install solar panels, have an energy audit, weatherize and insulate my home, develop a home garden and undertake quite a number of useful preparations mentioned here.
I have become active in local movements to support the use of wind and solar energy and am presently investigating the benefits of ground source heat pumps for my home and the church I attend.
I am very concerned about the ever mounting evidence that the earth is rapidly warming and causing one extreme weather event after the other. I can see no other cause for this other than the widespread use of fossil fuels and the green house gas emissions this burning creates.
Almost everything Chris says appeals to me and agrees with my understanding of things. I have found almost all of his guest bloggers very interesting and informative. I have become familiar with their web sites as well. All in all, I can say that this place is one of my very favorites.
I viewed segments of the Money Map video and read the entire text (with graphics) which is available on their site. I must admit, it is really irritating when I attempt to close the window on the video and a text box pops up and says “do you really intend to do that?”
It left me feeling very uncomfortable with the “pitch” aspect of it because it seems so unlike Chris and his basic message that, although important, money is only one aspect of true prosperity. True prosperity is good health, satisfying relationships and a strong community with mutual support and respect. I think it is only with this attitude and by building trust among those around us that we can move through the very difficult transition that is presently in progress.
The video presents a very accurate picture of our predicament and then proceeds to invite us to focus our efforts on additional monetizing of the earth’s remaining precious resources and increasing (and/or preserving – I am OK with that) our personal wealth.
It seems to me that this profit motive is the exact opposite of the message that should be forthcoming. It is the very commoditization of everything that has gotten us into this mess. Why should we want to continue to do more of it? It seems counter to the very actions we would want others to take.
I am pleased to see that more information about the consequences of global warming is appearing here and there on the site. I know that that this problem seems distant compared with the looming fiscal cliff and the consequences of peak (cheap) oil but its effects are likely to be far more permanent for future generations.
It is my belief that the greatest gift that can be offered to readers here (in additional to simple factual information) is the willingness to confront very unpleasant truth and deal realistically with the consequences. Where is the proposal for a “new economy” not dependent on growth? What are the actual consequences of living a sustainable lifestyle? Can we craft a “new American Dream?” Are we willing to sacrifice today for the sake of our children and grandchildren tomorrow?
I hope this feedback is helpful.
In my opinion ftealjr "get's it". And I also hope that this kind of feedback is taken as caring and constructive criticism. What has happened I think is that the style and message of the video has come into conflict with the values and Worldview of a segment of some members. And that's unfortunate because there is no question that we are all very fortunate to be part of CM site I believe. I could be wrong, but I wonder if this division is simply unavoidable given the deep social, political, economic and most significantly environmental issues that must be faced down to address this crises in the broadest sense.This may sound over the top, but I have come to believe that at it's heart and when all issues are considered, this is by far the most serious moral and "spiritual" crises humanity has faced. So it's understandable in my view that once one awakens to the root cause of what has gotten us into this predicament that they would react negatively to what comes across as more of that same kind of thinking. And this is also where the irony of the statement "Prospering as our World Changes" becomes evident to those who see that the most important thing we must ultimately do is to re-define the mainstream concept of growth and material prosperity. J.
I want to say that Ftealjrhas a point.
The message does have to spread to a wider audience. Time is of the essence. How it is spread and the tone of the message and the reputation of the messenger is important, too, how well the audience can be convinced, and can be convinced to take up the torch.
And it's not whether Chris intends himself and his message to be taken in a certain light. It's how he and his message and the tone are perceived. Obviously, enough people feel that the approach leaves a somewhat unpleasant taste in their mouth.
So care has to be taken as to whether to continue with this kind of approach or not.
P.S. - I suggest finding a way to contact the people at Planet Money on NPR and evangelizing to, then working with their producers. Nationwide audience, more open-minded than most.
Poet
I have been trying to tell you good folks that it will be your best friends that you will need to worry about when the SHTF moment happens. This here debate about Chris's motivations for what he gave ALL of us for FREE is my case in point. Leave this Man alone.BOB
My view is that when we start seeing crass commercials advertising ideas and products that we view as positive for the transition to a three E world, we will have reached the masses. If the sham-wow guy starts pitching solar hot water heaters, I won't object. When better food storage shelves, cabinets, cans and boxes are advertised at Lowe's, that's fine with me. When McDonalds advertises that their burgers are made from local pasture fed beef, I might start eating there.
The point is that mass media is the medium of the masses. If it pushes goods and services that are productive and/or wholesome, we will be a long way down the road to sustainability. Pissing and moaning about the medium obscures the message.
Doug
[quote=cmartenson]This is a relatively simple topic; we're trying new things here.
Unfortunately this conflicted with a variety of belief systems ranging from people's beliefs about me and who I am to ideas of social fairness and justice.
If such a realtively easy topic cannot be managed without driving some people away in a storm of self-generated emotions, imagine if we progressed into more deeply entrenched belief systems like religion or (shudder) politics.
[/quote]
Chris,
What if your own belief system - which can be as corrupted as any other - were being assigned a direction on the back of a previously non-corrupted belief system you've instilled in your followers?
What if this group of followers found they couldn't disagree with your priorities because they appeared a genuinely well thought out direction to go, and because of your dynamism and certainty you couldn't be dissuaded?
What if this isn't the direction to go, but those that would have said it isn't are no longer here to argue in any great number?
I remember a time at the beginning of this forum when everyone was on board to send out the Crash Course DVD to friends and family. It was a real grass roots tribute among people who had a belief that what you were doing was right, and they wanted to help.
Everything you did back then was pure gold. An act of altruism that went beyond color and creed and nation. Everyone saw such great value in a tipping point of awareness.
Now it all seems so big its difficult to steer.
What was good about this was you.
You were approachable on every level.
You could be reached.
Now there is a wall too steep to climb. So steep I sense there won't be a reply to this from you. It'll be answered by someone else who'll do your answering for you.
That will be all there is and no more.
Is this view of what I'm finding here really what you set out to do at the beginning?
If it is it will never be attained because it carries the agreement of a very small group of people who are becoming smaller.
Maybe they were never the ones you needed to reach at all, and only appeared so.
I've seen these types of video for a long time now and I for one usually close the window and then stay for the text. That way I can skip down to what I'm interested in and there usually is some nugget of information in there somewhere. I haven't watched this because I saw a portion of their original video and have watched all of the Crash Course. I don't have any problem with what Cris has done, they both have the same message but "They" try to hard sell with it whereas Cris has always been a soft sell. Keep up the good work Chris, you saved us a bundle in 2008 by warning us before the market crashed. I hope JAG can see the next downturn without Chris, if not it will probably cost JAG some money.
Ohh-kaaaay.
I suppose a lot of the newer folks here don't know me, so they don't understand where I was coming from when I endorsed the use of this Money Map vehicle for the 3E message. So some of you might think I am wealthy or uncaring - only out for profit. I am not wealthy. And If I were out only for profit…
Right. Let's back up a bit. Who am I?
I'm a 57-year-old semi-retired heavy construction safety engineer who used to work in NYC. I did not get that job through privelege: I got it through 15 years of grueling experience while a single parent, as an abandoned mother of three. My parents did nothing to help me as they were both ill (we'd always been in sad shape financially since mom was sick since I was 3). At one point I was so poor that I could not afford the quarters for the laundry machines and I had to wash four peoples' clothes in a bathtub. We survived on church food pantries. The only government aid I ever qualified for was a partial subsidy on childcare.
I took passion about my field and hard work and turned it into a degree and a job that paid $100K a year. And like Dr. Martenson, I thew it all away when I saw what was coming. I quit that job and moved to a semi-rural area, marrying a fellow prepper and battening down our hatches for the inevitable economic storm. I've pretty much spent my 401K on things like household insulation/venillation, a garden, canning supplies, off-grid energy and water sources.
This past week I've been offered over $100K a year to go back to NY and take up my former vocation, by two employers. No. It's not about the profit motive to me. However, those who have some resources and a kindly manner had better make it through the economic storm with some resources to help and teach others.
My new passion is making sure I can help my neighbors grow more of their own food in this climate as it becomes necessary. Decrying the evil motives of "the rich" does not help the poor in that way. Taxpayer-supported government "help" is about to implode due to lack of tax revenues. What are you, personally, doing to help your neighbors now and how will you be qualified to help them when things go inevitably south?
If a few people (like those hopeful investors buying the Money Map product) are left with enough wealth to rise above the level of subsistence, they need not automatically turn out to be slave masters. They might even have the resources to help others. Wealth is not inheritantly evil. The "love of money" was implicated the root of all evil in the age-old saying. Plenty of poor people love money, and are willing to do nasty things to others to get it or the things it can buy. Lots of people love money: it's part of why class warfare rhetoric works so well.
I'm not in the investor class - not any more. I touched it briefly, and I learned that many investment firms are sharks that see investors as easy prey. The Money Map folks struck me as a sincere business that was telling investors like it is, to the best of their ability. So kuddos to them, as opposed to the investment rectums that tied me to a 401K plan where the best option was to take a hit of 10% on fees every year. Kuddos to them for not trying to push TIPS on me like they were the geatest invention since sliced bread. It's not conceit if you're good, and it's not fear mongering if there is genuinely something to be afraid of.
That all being said, I was just as annoyed as some of you about the investing in gas/fracking angle toward the end of the video. Other than that, I say let's sit back and see if it brings in more folks to this site who need practical knowledge. I, at least, will be here to help them.
Can you imagine how many new people could be introduced to Dr. Martenson's work if all of the emotional energy that's gone into this comment thread were redirected into a campaign where everyone is encouraged to look for an opportunity to recommend the (free, original, online) Crash Course to at least one new person per day?
Erik