[quote=Erik T.]Can you imagine how many new people could be introduced to Dr. Martenson's work if all of the emotional energy that's gone into this comment thread were redirected into a campaign where everyone is encouraged to look for an opportunity to recommend the (free, original, online) Crash Course to at least one new person per day?
Erik
[/quote]
No way Erik, that would make too much sense. With luck we will reach Peak "Spleen Venting" soon enough
[Hidden - Jason. This user's posting privileges had been suspended since February for drive-by insults. Thanks to the new IP address comparison program on our new site, it turns out that "Jessica" was another VanityFox ghost anyway.]
Erik,
In a thread beneath a podcast back in April this year called Harvey Organ: Get Physical Gold & Silver! that ran to 376 posts, you wrote
My hat is off to Adam and Chris for bringing us such an outstanding contrast of guests. The most important skill for investors to develop is their ability to both listen with an open mind, while at the same time being skeptical and critical. Learning to differentiate between concrete, logical, fact-based arguments and emotionally charged bullsh*t - and correctly identifying each - is a learned skill, and it takes a lot of work to perfect. Regulars on this site have, in just 7 short days, been treated to both the well-reasoned arguments of a truly accomplished and well-spoken precious metals expert with well researched views supported by facts and evidence (Paul Tustain, featured last week), and have now also been exposed to a completely transparent charlatan, who asserts emotionally charged but factually hollow arguments that categorically lack credibility (Harvey Organ, in this interview).You went onto prove distortion after distortion in the gold market, and I admired you for it. Some of the most brilliant minds were picked, with everyone who dug deep in that fountain of knowledge coming away that bit more aware. Now as much as I admire Chris Martenson for his work, he has never blotted his copy book to such as extent as he has with this film. This I am certain. Many have complained about the film, with particular attention being paid to the play on gas fracking where even one of my most favorite of writers here, Safewrite, who I champion for her honesty, has this to say in the post just above yours [quote=Safrewrite] I was just as annoyed as some of you about the investing in gas/fracking angle toward the end of the video. [/quote] Others have also chimed in, such as [quote=Hladini] I watched the video presentation from Money Map Press and was excited about the Three E's message getting out to a larger audience, but disappointed with the conclusions. I was disappointed because I believe investors should have integrity. The film suggested buying stocks in fracking, natural gas companies - even though the film stated we would be seeing water wars in 2015. Well the fracking, natural gas industry destroys water tables. So why would an ethical investor invest in a product that destroys water when fresh, clean water availability is at risk? [/quote] Erik, it surprises me that you would harangue Harvey Organ with such intensity and passion, yet blindly back Chris Martenson who had plenty of opportunity in the film to state the true case about gas fracking. I appreciate there are political extremes at play with this subject that can break a public career, but it isn't as if Chris Martenson hasn't layed out the environmental effects caused by this immoral and ecologically disastrous act upon drinking water and the health of our nation in the past. If you can publically destroy Harvey Organ, you can also destroy Thomas L.Friedman along with anyone else who doesn't have the integrity to challenge in your words [quote=Erik T.] ..differentiate between concrete, logical, fact-based arguments and emotionally charged bullsh*t - and correctly identifying each - is a learned skill, and it takes a lot of work to perfect. [/quote] I have just the article to help you correctly identify a fact based argument Getting It Wrong on Natural Gas This guy Friedman sparked my interest from the last post on America’s corporate talking heads, so I looked to see what Tom has been writing about recently (Get It Right on Gas) and thought I’d dispel Tom’s
Thomas L. Friedman won the 2002 Pulitzer Prize for commentary, his third Pulitzer for The New York Times. He became the paper’s foreign-affairs Op-Ed columnist in 1995. Previously, he served as chief economic correspondent in the Washington bureau and before that he was the chief White House correspondent. In 2005, Mr. Friedman was elected as a member of the Pulitzer Prize Board.In a recent essay, Glenn Greenwald, who by the way is now writing for the UK Guardian, described Friedman in the following manner:
If I had to pick just a single fact that most powerfully reflects the nature of America’s political and media class in order to explain the cause of the nation’s imperial decline, it would be that, in those classes, Tom Friedman is the country’s most influential and most decorated “foreign policy expert.”Now on to Friedman’s misinformed article about natural gas in America, Get It Right on Gas, which gets it totally wrong on natural gas. In the article, Friedman calls America’s natural gas deposits a “potential game changer” and that it “may soon be powering cars, trucks and ships as well.” It’s the usual spiel we’ve been hearing for several years now. The reality is that the supposed natural gas boom is indeed a financial Ponzi scheme on a grand scale based on false claims of economically recoverable reserves. Remember last year the news story about internal documents from financial insiders and experts of gas drillers that surfaced? Various internal memos said the following:
An August 2009 memo from the firm IHS Drilling Data says, “The word in the world of independents is that the shale plays are just giant Ponzi schemes and the economics just do not work.” Earlier this year, an analyst at PNC Wealth Management compared natural gas projects to the dot-com boom, saying, “money is pouring in” even though drilling is “inherently unprofitable.” In another memo, a retired geologist for a major oil giant writes, “These corporate giants are having an Enron moment… They want to bend light to hide the truth.”Off the back of that news story from last year comes the following revelation from business insider Wolf Richter, as quoted in an Automatic Earth article:
…thanks to the Feds zero-interest-rate policy and the trillions it has handed over to its cronies since late 2008, the sweeps of creative destruction have broken down. Instead, boundless sums of money have been searching for a place to go, and they’re chasing yield when there is none, and so they’re taking risks, any kind of risks, in their vain battle to come out ahead… …But the money has dried up. And drilling for natural gas is collapsing. Last week, there were only 562 rigs drilling for dry natural gas, the lowest number since September 1999… …At $2.53 per million Btu at the Henry Hub, the price of natural gas is up 33% from the April low of $1.90 per million Btu, a number not seen in a decade. …even if it doubled, it would still be below the cost of production. And if it tripled, it might still be below the cost of production for most producers. That’s how mispriced the commodity has become. The economics of fracking are horrid. All wells have decline rates where production drops over time. But instead of decades for traditional wells, decline rates in horizontal fracking are measured in weeks and months: production falls off a cliff from day one and continues for a year or so until it levels out at about 10% of initial production. To be in the black over its life under these circumstances, a well in the Barnett Shale would have to sell its production for about $8 per million Btu, pricing models have shown…. …Drilling is destroying capital at an astonishing rate, and drillers are left with a mountain of debt just when decline rates are starting to wreak their havoc. To keep the decline rates from mucking up income statements, companies had to drill more and more, with new wells making up for the declining production of old wells. Alas, the scheme hit a wall, namely reality…It’s interesting to note that the Russian gas company, Gazprom, hired an American consulting firm just 20 miles from the White House in Fairfax, Virginia to analyze the economic viability of the natural gas “boom” in America. With the data collected by Pace Global Energy Services, Gazprom concluded the following:
“We think the current US gas market model is unsustainable in the medium and long term,” Komlev told Platts via email. “We forecast that soon, the disparity between the shale gas costs and sales price will disappear. When it happens, it will make the US plans to become a major gas exporter economically unviable.” …Based largely on Pace’s review of quarterly earnings reports and other financial data from US gas companies, Gazprom says the true costs of shale-gas production are upwards of 150% higher than the revenues its practitioners have been reaping in the last few years. But companies are continuing to use the approach for now, Komlev says, because they are also producing some higher-priced gas liquids in the process. Gazprom also believes that shale-gas drillers will incur additional costs to ensure that the chemicals they use in the fracking process will not contaminate underground sources of drinking water.In a May 2012 article, Dmitry Orlov quotes Gazprom’s chairman, Alexei Miller:
“Shale gas is a well-organized global PR-campaign. There are many of them: global cooling, biofuels.” He pointed out that the technology for producing gas from shale is many decades old, and suggested the US turned to it out of desperation.In addition to the poor or nonexistent EROEI and short life of shale gas wells in the U.S., Orlov also brings up a problem I was not aware of with Marcellus Shale, and that is its radioactivity:
Thanks to Marcellus shale gas, radioactive radon gas is being delivered directly to your kitchen, via the burners of your stove, or to a power plant smokestack upwind from where you live. This is expected to result in increased lung cancer rates in the coming years.Michael Miller, writing an article for the Anton News of New York, had this to say about the natural gas bubble:
Last week, three Bradford County families reached a $1.6 million settlement with Chesapeake Energy of Oklahoma City (“America’s Champion of Natural Gas”), compensation for the ruination of their water wells by methane gas migrations from nearby high volume hydraulic fracturing (“fracking”) operations. This is the first time ever that details of a Marcellus Shale settlement have been revealed to the public, at the insistence of the families… …Gas companies sold large chunks of futures last year at more than $5 per million BTU. Even if they’re still doing well on paper, these prices are far below the cost of production. Chesapeake Energy now leases drilling rights on over 15 million acres of land (more than eight times the area of Nassau and Suffolk Counties) and makes its profits mostly by flipping properties. In 2010, the company sold land it had purchased in Texas for $2,000 an acre to a large Chinese oil company for $11,000 an acre, making a profit of $2.2 billion… …Natural gas wells can’t compete for investment capital with oil wells, which have a much higher “Energy Returned On Energy Invested” ratio (after only several months, sometimes only several weeks, production from fracked wells falls off the table and levels off at about 10 percent of initial production). That’s why gas companies are flooding daytime television and the halls of the State Capitol in Albany with millions of dollars in advertising and lobbying power, trolling for small investors and warning off politicians who might be tempted to meddle. And this has been working. Many of us, exposed to the incessant propaganda, think that America is poised to become the energy-exporting powerhouse it once was, if only the government would get out of the way. In fact, the natural gas industry as we know it wouldn’t exist without massive subsidies and tax breaks. Last week, it was reported that since its founding 23 years ago, Chesapeake Energy has paid only $53 million on its $5.5 billion in profits. The U.S. Department of Energy has cut its estimate of gas available in the Marcellus Shale by nearly 70 percent. A Colorado School of Mines report estimates that the U.S. has a recoverable gas supply of 23 years, not the “near 100-year supply” that President Obama still talks about as a centerpiece of his energy plan. Recently, a coalition of 55 institutional investors with over $1 trillion in assets called on companies involved with shale gas fracking to police themselves and reign in the tactics that are turning off America and putting everybody’s money at risk. T. Boone Pickens, the billionaire who toured the country promoting natural gas as the answer to our country’s energy problems, announced in May that he was “out of the natural gas stocks…We didn’t like natural gas.” The money is talking. There are no easy answers to our energy, climate and fiscal situations, and fossil fuels are made mostly of carbon, not magic.I contacted Michael Miller by email and asked for his sources which he emailed me, also telling me other sources included personal contacts of “people in government, particularly Albany.” So there you have it. The natural gas boom is pretty much a bust egged on by low-interest loans by the Fed, financial shenanigans of energy corporation executives, and America’s desperation for energy in the age of peak oil. I did not get into the other major environmental disasters of gas fracking in this post, but I have talked about them in Profiting Off Acts of Desperation, and I posted the mini-documentary “The Sky is Pink” here. I noticed that Josh Fox, producer of the aforementioned documentary, made a comment on Tom Friedman’s article:
Recently, politicians and publications have conditionally endorsed so-called “safe fracking” as a part of the nation’s energy mix. But safe fracking is an impossibility, and the industry’s claims for it are knowingly based on false premises. Chief among them is the notion that a “leakproof well” is possible. We’ve heard time again that strict regulation is the key to moving forward on fracking, and that new regulations should make sure that industry constructs leakproof wells that do not pollute the water table. There is no such thing as a leakproof gas well. The gas industry knows this; in fact, it has known it for decades. I recently made a short film addressing the well casing failure issue called THE SKY IS PINK and you can watch it here: www.pinkskyny.com. A 2003 joint industry publication from Schlumberger, the world’s No. 1 fracking company, cites astronomical failure rates of 60 percent over a 30-year span. To imagine gas companies voluntarily committing to an eternity of costly maintenance on wells failing at ever-increasing rates is beyond credulity. “Safe fracking” is a contradiction in terms. Leaking gas wells at these rates mean thousands across the nation have enough contaminants in their water and land to render them unfit for residential use. It’s not only the gas wells that have integrity problems; it is the oil and gas industry itself. We can believe in their self-interested assertions of leakproof wells about as much as we can expect pigs to fly.In addition to what Josh mentioned above, a 2009 Cornell University study suggests that Shale Gas may be worse than coal as far as greenhouse gas emissions are concerned, with substantial levels of methane leaks traced back to underground Shale Gas operations. Will America’s natural gas reserves make it energy independent? I’ll believe that when pigs fly.
I’ve been an annual paid subscriber since 2008.
What I get here for my hard earned fiat currency doesn’t exist anywhere else.
I appreciate all the effort Chris, Adam and The Peak Prosperity team put in to continually evolving the site. It’s a massive undertaking that requires way more than a 50-hour work week.
I appreciate how Bold and Innovative they are when trying out new things. Sometimes they don’t hit the mark, but the majority of the time it’s home run.
I also appreciate those who challenge and are critical of things they feel don’t work.
It brings people like me who don’t post much but frequent the site almost daily to defend the importance of the site, and the quality of the character of Chris and Adam.
It’s good to try new ways of getting the message of the 3 E’s out there.
The style of the Pyramid Video is not my cup of tea. But I’m sure it works for others.
The text below the video very clearly explains everything about why and how it was considered and done. It’s about as clear and honest as I would expect.
I’ve had the good fortune of creating with Chris a couple of videos that are more my aesthetic. For newer members, and veterans who may have missed these, here’s another side of Dr. Chris Martenson.
The first one was when I joined Chris to get a first hand look at what was really going on at Zuccotti Park during the early days of Occupy Wall St.
https://peakprosperity.com/blog/occupy-wall-street-whats-really-going/63603
The other is the welcome video for PeakProsperity.com.
https://peakprosperity.com/welcome
Cheers,
Livio Sanchez
[Moderator's note: Comment removed; was from a ghost account created by a suspended user. Comment was just hidden for a while while the matter was under consideration.]
James, thank you for re-posting those videos created by JAG. I remember how great and inspiring I thought they were when he first shared them. I posted them on Facebook and shared them with friends and family. Mostly the response was the sound of crickets chirping, with a few “very cool” comments mixed in. It was disappointing to me to see further, the vast majority of people around me who were stuck in denial and unwilling to try and move themselves towards awareness.
I wish people like Jag and xraymike79 great success in their personal journey in creating greater awareness. Hopefully with time, they will return and contribute again to this forum.
@JP
Now that's what needed to be said. Thank you for what I can only imagine had to have been some sacrafice of time and energy pulling up information and finding the words to pull this all together. I can see the supporters of this Money Map Sham video backpeddling in manic panic whether they post it or not. I would like to challenge anyone who could step forward and state that that video was in a spirit and style that resonates well with them. As so many have said in so many words that it's not their style but they're so sure others will just really relate to that kind of marketing and they'll eat it up. Really? Anyone here just eat up that kind of thing? Anyone here just so ready to have someone step into awareness with that video as their first recommend? Anyone? I sincerely ask ANYONE? If not then isn't that saying exactly what those few who are not afraid to call BS on this video are saying? How could CM have made such an epic mistake?
Just my honest opiniion.
why?
I understand. I would like to hear from Admin however.
Thanks Poet
Rocketgirl2:
I didn't report it, but it could have easily been a copyright violation issue. An entire article, or whole sections of an entire article, was copied and pasted. Or possibly multiple articles. Something like that. I think that's what I recall, a tribute and then a huge copy-and-paste operation.
Note: I thnk this is the one:
Getting It Wrong on Natural Gas (August 21, 2012)
http://collapseofindustrialcivilization.com/2012/08/21/getting-it-wrong-on-natural-gas/
Now, I am not a lawyer, but brom my understanding of Fair Use legalities, you can quote a few paragraphs here and there, draw some conclusions in your own words and link the source so others can read the article for themselves.
On the other hand, maybe it was posted by a "throwaway" account and that was the reason.
P.S. - I myself am a fan of JAG. He provides an important counterpoint to prevailing arguments.
Poet
James' comment has been flagged by one our moderators and is under his review. I've asked the Mod to post an explanation here as soon as he's able to.
There's nothing suppressive going on - it's likely for the reason Poet mentions (I haven't had a chance to speak directly with the mod yet). But we understand the sensitivity here and will post a public clarification shortly.
I am a bit concerned.
- People who know Chris, respect his work, and generally will accept this video as a necessary evil. Ok
- People who follow Money Map will probably like the tone of the video (even though if they are already subscribed to Money Map why would they subscribe again?).
- And then there are people who potentially would subscribe to Money Map for which this video is targetted,
- people like us. People who did not like this video, but like the Crash Course. What if any of us got to see this video before seeing the Crash Course. How many would discount not just the video and Money Map, but also Chris and the Crash Course itself. So that in the future when we were exposed to the Crash Course we would just ignore it. This is the damage that this video can do.
Indeed we respond to emotions more than reason. But the emotion that a video rises is not always what we expect or plan to rise.
This thread has grown to 90 posts, almost all of them angry complaints.
Why can't you guys read thru the lines here? Chris obviously wasn't especially proud of how this turned out, and told us of his regret as clearly as he reasonably could. (To say outright, "This sucked and I regret the way it came out" would have been quite awkward considering the MoneyMap people just bought a whole bunch of his books).
Nobody ever knows a producer's exact intention until they see the finished product themselves. Chris and Adam probably agreed to this because it seemed a great concept (it was), and the film shoot with Keith and the other guy must have felt good - the content there was fine. Chris and Adam probably didn't even know the pushy salesman guy (narrator?) was going to be added to the mix until they saw the finished video. By then, it was too late to change their minds.
Rocketgirl, obviously you're not going to find anyone here to stand up and say this was great, and you knew that when you posed the question. But suppose this had turned out to be a FANTASTIC, tasteful, well done production. Would you be all over Chris and Adam's case for having agreed to work with someone else to produce the video, knowing there was a CHANCE it could turn out the way it actually did, or worse? Of course not.
For crying out loud, people, Chris and Adam made a GOOD decision to do something that MADE SENSE based on the information available to them at the time. Chris' footage was all in GOOD TASTE. Then the MoneyMap people edited it into something regrettable. Chris was obviously a bit embarassed, hence the long disclaimer posturning the video with Chris' reservations about how it came out.
Indeed, the finished product is something of an embarassment, which is regrettable. But there is nothing for Chris and Adam to be embarassed about. They made good decisions and took a chance to make something really great happen. Something less great than hoped for resulted, but you can't win the game if you don't try.
If there is anything that anyone should be ASHAMED of, it's all you freeloaders who have been regular benefactors of this site for the last 3+ years, but have yet to buy a paid subscription or make a donation. The fact that many of the complaints in this thread come from the very same people who have exploited Chris Martenson's generosity for the past several years withouit ever contributing so much as a penny of their own money to help support the effort is telling indeed.
I also can't help but observe that many of the people whining about the style of this video are the same people who seem addicted to the sensationalism of GATA, Max Keiser, Turd Ferguson, Alex Jones, etc. to the point that no amount of reasoning will awaken you to how easily disprovable most of the nonsense these people write and talk about actually is. For heaven's sake, rather than moan on and on about the regrettable aspects of how this video turned out, why don't you go see a psychologist and figure out why you're addicted to factually inaccurate doomertainment nonsense? Why do you all have so much energy to beat Chris up about this, but no energy or desire whatsoever to fact-check the BS you're receiving from GATA, Ted B, and the rest of the PM charlatans? This is just a matter of style; those other folks are outright telling lies about how PM markets function, yet nobody is complaining about them. Why not?
Bottom line, how about cutting Chris some slack here? He obviously learned a lesson or two from this project, and despite the fact that it wasn't an ideal outcome, it's really not all that bad. It's a pushy style to be sure, but aside from the salesmanship from the narrator guy, Chris and the other two subject matter experts communicated some excellent information. Lighten up already!
Erik
Anyone else tired of this thread? I should have put my ear protection on 
Eric, are you speaking for CM now? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I think it's a fair question because you have made some concrete statements in his name so it's only fair to ask. Were your references to his "obvious" feelings your own conclusions? Did you read mammamia's post just above yours? Did you read my first post regarding the video where I clearly state that I have been a paid member and why I cancelled? Did you read the same post where I clearly state why I see this video as so far off track that I question the direction this site is taking?
I understand scripts, shoots, reshoots, editing, travel, equipment, angles and lighting. I also understand siging off on a project, contracts, agreements, control percentages, deals. It's part of what my family does. I know some of the bones of what went into this project so I understand or at least I can piece together some idea of what CM agreed to. You and so many of the "paying members" think this is all so innocent and us "non paying free loaders" need to just get over it and stop whining because we're not paid subscribers. As if we don't have a voice, as if what we have to say doesn't have merrit just because we aren't paying for the privilege to disagree. Do you understand what you and others are saying when you make that kind of comment?
Jag left this site over this video. Does that resonate with anyone? Now the tribute to jag has been deleted or in PP pergatory as we wait on day number two and counting for what must be a tedious process, I can only imagine 
[Adam: the explanation for the referenced deletion can be found in comment #83 of this thread]
CM saying this video is an experiment does not get him off the hook. I know too much about what goes into a production like this and at the end of the day he still posted it on his site.
I'm feeling pretty much done on this subject (damn, I needed that ear protection again for the applause). I feel really bad for all the negativity surrounding this video. This whole thing is sad to me so I'm not looking to place blame. I don't enjoy this. I really felt an overwhelming sense of gratitude for CM and his family and the newly formed (at that time) CM team. Hell, I even PM'd them and offered our Zion National Park vacation home anytime they wanted to use it. I was at this same place that so many of you are today and what I'm trying to tell you is that there has been a shift in the motivation of this team and this video is representative of that, IMO.
Sorry for any punctuation mishaps and misspelled words, I usually don't give a tard about it.
RG2
Rocketgirl -Our moderator posted his explanation for the deleted comment yesterday (see comment #83 below).
It was deleted because it was made by a suspended user who created a ghost account in attempt to circumvent our forum guidelines. We have no problem with people posting in support of JAG and his work. However, we will enforce the rules and ettiqutte that maintain the high standard of quality readers appreaciate about this site.
My mistake. I didn't think to scroll to the deleted spot, I was looking for a new post only. Thank you for the explanation. It was a fantastic tribute which included some exceptional contributions to this site from Jag and presented in a well thought out post. Unfortunate loss.
RG2
I have no problem with Moderator Jason or Moderator John eventually zoofing this post, but I think we are at this point…
@ Dogs---------LOL'z
[quote=rocketgirl2]Eric, are you speaking for CM now? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I think it's a fair question because you have made some concrete statements in his name so it's only fair to ask. Were your references to his "obvious" feelings your own conclusions?[/quote]I do not speak for Chris and have no official capacity with this site. And I have not spoken to Chris about the matter. My views and opinions are mine alone.
What resonates for me is a sense of disbelief that JAG or anyone else is making such a big deal over this. Jeff is a really good guy, and I respect him greatly. He and I both left the forums on this site around the same time after they had been effectively hijacked by conspiracy buffs who kept taking the conversation away from the Three E's. So not only do I appreciate the significance of Jeff's decision to leave - I once left with him.
But that was over a substantive, meaningful issue. This is pure unadulterated sillyness. Chris and Adam obviously endeavored to do something that seemed to make perfect sense when they agreed to it, and the final product wasn't quite as satisfactory as it might have been in a perfect world. Big deal. Let's cut them some slack and move on. Suggestions for how to improve the new site would be a lot more useful than regular reiterations of the same objections to this video. I'm really, really sure they already got the message about how you and others felt about the video and the image it portrays.
Ok, then. So like Dogs said, let's drop it and let the thread die. Right here, right now. Done, over, finished and forgotten.
Erik
There was another thread where someone wanted Chris to get into politics and activate the masses. This little video kind of shows why I am glad he hasn't done that. I love the single mindedness he has had about teaching his message. He has done a superb job of educating a minority that will listen to him. It has been a full time job and it isn't finished yet.
Personally, I am an independent thinker who pulls back from an obvious sales pitch, and I think most folks who come here are also. Trying to get us into a political party would be like herding cats. Trying to sell us a product would cause us to run for the gate, like Jag has so dramatically done.
I vote for a final post/comment from Doc Martenson, followed by closing of this thread from further comments - as I believe all opinions on this matter have been aired by now, and at this point the conversation has already started to see signs of personal attacks aimed at people (or groups of people), which is totally not productive.
Thumbs up if you agree.
Poet