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You know the funny thing is, Ive never heard an actual human being express these sentiments. I mean, Im sure they exist but is it really a sentiment that reflects the views of a significant number of people?
I dont believe it is, I think those quotes come directly from the staff at the Toronto Star. And the staff at the Toronto star were carefully selected by the editor, who was carefully selected by the multi-national global conglomerate that owns the paper. I dont believe that most Americans or Canadians give a damn. I think they believe that if they get the shot they will be protected personally and thats all they care about.
I believe articles like that are made to sow division, not to reflect reality. Its another aspect of illusion that I posted about yesterday. If you unplug from these illusion factories and just experience actual reality, you will find real life is radically different from the online/media mirage that we subject ourselves to.
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Chris, you said you were going to come back to the issue of the lack of significance relating to comorbidities as to whether you get infected. How does this relate to improving your terrain? I thought that was supposed to lead to fewer infections, not just lower morbidity.
brushhog, I remember when hate speech used to be a crime. Doesnt apply to us star wearers.
Hi doc!
What do you mean exactly by attenuated exposure?
You make a great point, brushhog, about these types of comments. They are very probably being at the very least exaggerated by the media
Once this study is published, it seems reasonable that it would form the basis for exemption from vaccination if one can prove theyâve recovered from SARS-CoV-2. Any attorneys in the crowd? Would it hold up?
I am seeing examples of this hatred toward the unvaccinated on an almost daily basis. I work in retail at a store in a wealthy Seattle area community. Now that Washington State is mandating masks, again, conversations often involve Covid. Nearly all of the customers express dismay at the stupidity of the unvaxed, who they feel are 100% responsible for the inability to achieve herd immunity. This is even after studies prove that the vaxed can transmit the virus. I think that this lack of understanding is directly caused by the reporting in our local media. From my personal experience, unfortunately, I think that the article in the Toronto Star would find a welcome audience here.
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"What, pray tell, did the unvaccinated actually do to any of the people making such vile statements? I mean not in theory, but in actual practice?" -Chris MartensonThe unvaccinated challenged their belief systems ... which, in many cases, led the vaccinated to feel ashamed or afraid. Static belief systems and ego form a house of cards. The only way I can see to escape this trap is for people to rise above it on an identity level and make it part of their identity to be radically honest -- especially with themselves. I get some interesting reactions when I tell people I want to catch Covid, and defeat it -- that I am not willing to live on my knees any longer. I even got an interesting reaction from myself, when I said it the first time.
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I had covid in January 28, 2020 and had antibodies through November 2020. In January 2021, no antibodies detected. I did the T-Detect in April and it came back negative. The company is owned by Microsoft ie Bill Gates so I donât really trust the data or the methods. All I know is I had been directly exposed by my husband who had one vaccine and four weeks later got covid and gave it to 8 people. I didnât get it and we never masked around each other because we found out too late. So, I donât know what to think of t-detect. I will keep up Chrisâs protocol and ask the community their thoughts. Do T cells always show up when tested?? Has anyone else done this test and had positive results and when was your case?
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Oh, do I wish this study included a group of SARS2-naive individuals who were unvaxed, but on IVM. But that will never happen, I guess.
I was interested in the several mentions of advanced age in this study. Why? Iâm 63, unvaxed, on IVM, and wrestling almost daily with pressure to get the jab. (Really, Iâm waiting for a traditional vax, but that may not be in the offing). Nonethelesss, concerning Delta (and presumably later variants), it seems clear now that getting the jab wonât confer immunity, but may (to a lessening extent with time) confer a decreased chance of hospitalization/death - but with all possible side effects.
What does this study suggest about getting the vax for SAR2-naive folks above 60 years of age? Anything? If it matters, my mother is 90 and jabbed, as are two brothers, both in their 60s. No serious AE for any of the three.
Bill
To see what I mean, simply mentally replace the word "unvaccinated" above with "black people" or "Jews' or "Muslims" or "Christians" or "homeless people" and see how it feels then.You are lumping together groups of people that don't share all the same characteristics and therefore may not elicit the same emotions from everyone. Blacks, Jews and, in some cases, homeless people, don't have a choice. Religious people and people who decline vaccines during global pandemics are making a choice. Heck within the religious realm, lumping together Christians and Muslims implies that all religions are equally benign or beneficial, a claim some would argue.
What, pray tell, did the unvaccinated actually do to any of the people making such vile statements? I mean not in theory, but in actual practice? The answer, in nearly every case is "absolutely nothing."My hair stylist and her husband both caught covid before vaccines were available. She had a mild case but lost her sense of taste and smell and it hasn't come back. Her husband had a far more serious fight with the virus, but wasn't hospitalized. She related a recent encounter her husband had with someone ranting about covid and the vaccine. When the rant paused, her husband shared his experience with the virus and how it deviated from the rant. This is not unusual behavior with the unvaccinated crowd, where I live. My wife was at an appointment with her unvaccinated, chiropractor, who is willing to wear a mask if his patients are wearing one. He started an anti-vax rant during her visit, but wisely stopped in mid rant. My brother-in-law is also an unvaccinated chiropractor who links a lot of material from sources like Alex Jones to his facebook account, where it is immediately censored. My experience of the anti vax crowd is that they are less tolerant than people who are getting vaccines and that includes this website. The red cross recently sent out an urgent request for blood donors. Since I was 10 weeks from my previous donation, I responded. When I arrived, I found that the red cross had stopped requiring masks in the donation room, despite the Delta variant surge. I asked about it. They said they encouraged donors to wear masks, even offered to give them one, but didn't feel they could require them any longer. I left. My favorite blues musician recently retired from a long career. He said he was unwilling to risk his health, or his life, given the mask/vaccine situation in the US. Even if you rule out putting everyone at greater risk and the increased medical cost our society is bearing, it is simply untrue that the anti vax crowd is doing absolutely nothing to vaccinated people.
I am seeing examples of this hatred toward the unvaccinated on an almost daily basis. I work in retail at a store in a wealthy Seattle area community. Now that Washington State is mandating masks, again, conversations often involve Covid. Nearly all of the customers express dismay at the stupidity of the unvaxed, who they feel are 100% responsible for the inability to achieve herd immunity. This is even after studies prove that the vaxed can transmit the virus.I believe it. But does a wealthy community in Seattle really represent the views of a significant portion of the US public? Lets not forget Seattle's welcoming of dangerous left wing terrorist groups that literally took over a portion of the city [ remember CHAZ ? ]. Even after many reports of people being terrorized and killed came out, Seattle did nothing...in fact they called it the "summer of love". I think the ideas and opinions that dominate certain Seattle communities are diametrically opposed to those of 90% of America. Its probably one of the most, if not THE most extreme places in the country. Its tough to be in such a place and be confronted by those views on a daily basis, it would be very easy to believe that it represents the dominant thinking. I'm sure people growing up in certain parts of Utah 50 years ago probably thought that having 3 wives was normal and acceptable. No offense, but Seattle is a backwards place.
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That is not my experience.
Most anti-vaxxers I know are happy to give anyone a choice. Extreme anti-vaxxers might have fringe beliefs, but generally, they donât try to prescribe what others have to do.
Contrast that to now myriads of posts of vaxx-proponents that wish harm and death on anti-vaxxers, I see it as quite the opposite. Perhaps these are the fringe as well, but they are getting more and more vocal and now influence mainstream conversation.
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My experience of the anti vax crowd is that they are less tolerant than people who are getting vaccines and that includes this website.I can see you like labels and boxes. They are great at simplifying situations that can be disagreeably full of nuance. These days, nobody likes nuance. "I'm going to label you an anti-vaxxer and drop you into the "crowd" box. Boy are you guys intolerant." I've had vaccines. And I don't want this vaccine. That's "gray" to me. But, I get the sense that you would call me an anti-vaxxer because that's much easier than dealing with my shades of gray. "Rude anti-vaxxer!" (But...what about those shots I got before? They don't count? Apparently not. Too much nuance for today's world, apparently.) Lots of friends of mine got the shot. That's their choice. Especially if they are old, with lots of co-morbidities, and at a high risk from hospitalization and death - I totally respect their choice. I might even make the same choice if I were in their position. I'm not. And I'm also better informed. And I tend to "doctor myself", for better or for worse. That happened due to COVID, and No Treatments For You. NIH doesn't care if I live or die, and so if they push a shot - I'm automatically skeptical. If this weren't a leaky vaccine - if it actually protected other people from getting infected, the way normal vaccines do, and it conferred a decade of protection - the way normal vaccines do - if the COVID CFR was higher, and if there weren't treatments like ivermectin (and the other dozen things that also work), I might think differently. Unfortunately, there are some great treatments. And the shot is leaky. And efficacy lasts about 5 months. And the government is using every trick in the book to force everyone to take it. Along with the boosters "coming soon now." And PFE, MRNA, and JNJ have a massive financial interest, and no liability for anything that goes wrong. Its as if GM gets to sell "The Corvair", we are all required to buy it or we can't go to work, there are a record number of accidents (it is "unsafe at any speed"), and us normal people simply have to suck up the deaths while being gaslit "oh, your accident was just a coincidence - accidents happen all the time" - and if we complain, we're labeled as "anti-car." While GM gets filthy rich in the process. But somehow, people like me - who don't want this particular vax, under these conditions (no mfr liability, using force-of-the-state to mandate it, with the most adverse events ever in US history), are somehow the bad people in the story. We are labeled. No nuance allowed. "Anti-vaxxers!" Rude anti-vaxxers too. For the record, I'm also anti-fentinyl. And anti-vioxx. And anti-statins. And anti-remdesivir. And anti-anti-depressants. And I'm paracetamol-hesitant as well. Depletes glutathione. And after watching my mom die from cancer (but really, from the cancer drugs), I have to say, I'm also anti-chemotherapy too. I'm anti-DDT. And anti-glyphosate also. I'm anti-dangerous-compounds. Which, for me, this shot is. Word of the day: nuance.
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I agree on all counts!
Dave,
You wrote:
For the record, I'm also anti-fentinyl. And anti-vioxx. And anti-statins. And anti-remdesivir.Ditto. I am sick of the "anti-vaxxer" tag. I have long been considering a trip to Namibia. If I go, I might get vaccinated for yellow fever. I won't even consider the current Covid vaccines until honesty and open discourse return to the public sphere. I see no chance of that happening. For this, I am labeled an "anti-vaxxer." The "anti-vaxxer" tag is just more propagandistic nonsense. If people want to converse rationally with me, fine. I am all ears. If they want to dump propagandistic nonsense on me, get lost. I have better things to do with my time.
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I did the T-detect, it was negative. To my knowledge I have not had Covid, I was kind of hoping it would be positive and that Iâd been asymptomatic. I did not know it was owned by Gates. That is unfortunate. Iâm not sure I will trust them again. BTW, I do know they say the test is only accurate for a few months after infection, and the test is only EUA, not fully approved.
was discussing with my wife.
My current survival odds are 99.984%
With the vaccine its 99.995%, 1/3rd.
But to get that 0.011% improvement, I have to subject myself to a 0.6% serious adverse event risk (5x the improvement rate).
I was waiting on the Novavax vaccine as it seems the only one that doesnât replicate, but the amount of pressure to get vaccinated is making me rethink ever getting vaccinated. Not to mention a 5 month 3rd booster timeframe is madness, so youâd have to get TWO shots a year (0.6% risk = 1.2% risk a year of adverse events). This is madness.
Les, if the unvaxxed crowd were less tolerant than the vaxxers, your post would be censored here, just like mine are on sites that echo your views.
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