New Studies Raise The Coronavirus Threat Factor

Hi all,
I noticed that (nearly) all vitamin C products, and especially ascorbate powder are sold out. It started first in specialized online stores (only accessible to healthcare workers). Is this the same in your country?

First of all,
I gave you a thumbs up: critical thinking and asking questions ensures that we do not get lost in a tunnel vision.
As to your question: I know it’s impolite to counter a question with a question, but why not ask this to North Italian health care workers or citizens? You can do that via twitter.
Anyway, glad to hear to you and your family are prepared: better safe than sorry.
Take care!

Nairobi, do you think it is ok if big companies get bailouts but little companies only get loans? Do you think that companies buying back their shares to artificially inflate their share price to increase the loot of well-placed executives gives a reasonable basis for the valuation of the company‘s shares for pension plans and 401Ks?
Do you think that the little people—the so-called deplorables are not already boiling over with resentment toward the differential treatment between the rich and powerful elites and themselves? That this, itself, has the potential to bring down the whole edifice called the economy?
Essentially, you seem to be arguing that we need to keep up appearances, because if we recognize the groundswell of discontent, the whole chickenwire and plasterboard construction could come tumbling down.
I‘m ignoring your invective, as you can see. I, for one, would appreciate a point by point rebuttal by you of Chris‘s presentation. I‘m new here, so please excuse any unintended lack of discretion on my part.

When you know you have a huge epidemic of one thing, and people are presenting all over the place, why spend time and money on testing when you cannot treat? The horse is so far out of the barn and testing is complicated, hard to procure and risky. Honestly anyone who is getting cough fever etc… is probably presumed to have Covid 19. I don’t blame the doctors because they have been forced into this kind of diagnostic process for 2 months at least due to lack of tests. If someone is told to isolate, I am sorry to say, they are likely presumed to have Covid 19. Since they cannot help someone with mild symptoms they are being told to isolate to avoid spread. That’s what it sounds like.

I went from being considered obsessed and opinionated to hero this week according to my wife.
Humoring me in support of my effort to prepare for what’s coming, we agreed to acquire what we were going to consume or can return.
With the oncoming virus attack, last week I had her sit down and view hear first Peak Prosperity video. She got it. Her first comment was how much she really liked Chris’ manner and speaking voice.
The result was ALL the data I exposed her to IMMEDIATELY ALIGNED. I’m not exaggerating , it was lights on with the whole person alert and on-board. Enlightenment took place before my eyes, like a soul taking possession at birth.
This week, more than once, she expressed an amazement at how out-in-front we are to all that we have followed in the news. She urges me for any updates now.
Thank You, again, Peak Prosperity
To Dr. Martenson, Thank You For Standing Tall!

Eh, that Imperial College paper explains so much! So many of the politicians and senior medical talking heads here in Australia and overseas have been quoting phrases, so it (or the ideology) must be well known. My summary:

  1. lockdowns don’t work due to infection resurgence once lifted (implicitly assumes inability to test, lack of masks etc)
  2. throw the kids under the bus, they are minimally affected so ideal to get them all infected/recovered as quickly as possible to contribute to herd immunity. Definitely don’t close education, possibly consider ‘plague parties’.
  3. sacrifice any seniors or vulnerable populations that can’t or won’t self isolate (since any who get it will be far down the triage list once the hospitals explode). They were warned, so it’s probably their own fault. (ignores difficulties of these groups in stocking up, isolating if they depend on carers and in my experience the sheer impossibility of getting Boomers to face reality and cut social networks for a year or two)
  4. cases with symptoms should self isolate for 7 days and their households for 14 - would probably cut transmission if implemented. However, after disruptions caused by first 1-2 colds that come home and may or may not be Covid-19 most households are going to stop complying. Especially if the high spread by asymptomatic cases gets out.
  5. wealthy can visibly avoid issues 2)-4) above by working from home and having their kids schooled remotely. This throws all the burden of ‘building herd immunity’ onto the poorer people - recipe for extreme resentment.
  6. So it won’t work. The ‘recipe’ considers the virus in a vacuum, absent the systemic reactions. To have a hope of working, the public would have needed to be educated about the plan and ‘bought in’ long before now. As it is, people will not comply until they see local hospital systems overwhelmed and then they will panic even more and the chaos and crazy will happen - the oh so careful plan to avoid economic chaos by selecting for the optimum number of ‘acceptable’ deaths will completely fail.
    This is even before considering the validity of the assumptions upon which the strategy is based. Still, it has highlighted for me the impossible task now facing anyone trying to ‘manage’ this thing and an economy.

Ive been following Chris for the better part of a decade. He has not changed. He may have a bit more wind in his sails by being proven right, but he is still just a voice in the wilderness putting himself at risk to state his convictions.
He has been saying that the monetary system is unsustainable and a bubble seeking a pin for a long time. He has pointed out the immoral aspects of corporate influence for a long time.
His latest video merely echoes what he has been consistently saying for a long time.
This thing was always gonna go down. Exponential nature of interest, debt, population growth, resource consumption, extractive environmental impacts, and on and on.
If the facts bother you…the problem is not with the facts.

The highest median estimate of seasonal flu deaths in this country for the past 10 flu seasons was 61,000.
(61,000 deaths/340,000,000 US population)×100 = 0.00179% Over the Course of the Entire Flu Season Without Highly Focused NPIs
(2000 deaths*/16,000,000 Combined Lambordy/Veneto regions of Italy)×100 = 0.0125% Over the Course of Two to Three Weeks With Highly Focused NPIs
I would say this Emperor sports a treacherous cut of deceitful cloth.
*I assumed roughly 80% of Italian deaths in the cited regions as these comprose the general location for the country’s hot zone.

You can buy 1 kg package on

I agree with you- when i first bumped into the organic movement as a farmer, the tent was pretty darn big- still is. we seem to do best on agreeing on soil health and nutrient dense food- and arguing about governmnet vs corporate conspiracy. When the NOP was passed we got this sad arrangement of private certifiers audited by the Feds/NOP as the compromise- the thought being that private enterprise would do a better job, less likely to be compromised, which has been shown to be lacking. The larger problem seems to be the nature of hierarchical systems and private greed, with a lack of accountability in both government and private business. So, l leave it to you, what systems, if any, have the best chance of reforming themselves before disaster shows up?

Does anyone have a link to an actual report of the Vo study? All I can find are newspaper reports. I ask because some of the reports indicate that the follow-up may have only 2 weeks. That is not really enough time to find out if the majority of the people who tested positive were actually true asymptomatic cases or just presymptomatic. Though it does put a major nail in the ‘it’s just the flu’ argument which depends partly on 100s of mild/asymptomatic cases per death rather than just 90.

Yes, I think bailouts should be done but at the same time it should be done against new shares at price of that moment, not like, here you get some billions, please payback when you can… Just print new shares for the bailout

You sure have a lot to say for being a new member on here. If you don’t like his videos then go on CNN and discuss. Oh wait, they had nothing to say until the virus was all over the place and beyond proper containment.
Take a seat and chill, yea?

100% for sure, Chris voice is not loud enough to tank a global economy.
And it seems that the much louder voices (Trump and the Fed) might also not be loud enough to avoid disaster.
So it seems to me that MMT will soon have it’s mettle tested…let’s see how glorious it will turn out to be. Maybe this is why people are buying so much bog roll…

MarkBaily in one of the other video comments posted this youtube link on DIY masks.
Since this is a subject I’m interested in I started watching a couple. This lead me to two articles which had to deal with mask efficiency and reusing masks. This first one really shoots the idea that masks don’t help in the foot hard.
They did tests on various materials with particles way smaller than the virus. They also tested air gaps and their effect on filtration.
The second link discusses test conducted by the International Medical Institute of Bejing, which looked at various ways to disinfect used masks. Much of their findings support the ways we have discussed.

"Concerns with reusing masks arise when you consider two factors: Is the mask safe to reuse once it has worn outside and come into contact with possible contaminants, and will the mask continue to properly filter the air after being washed? Regarding the first point, it does appear that reusing a mask is safe as long as you handle them correctly (more on that under disposing of masks below) and the filtration mechanism has not been compromised. According to this post from International Medical Center (IMC) Beijing, "The mechanism of filtration is mainly inertial collision, diffusion, and electrostatic adsorption. The premise of using the mask again after disinfection is that the sterilized mask can neither affect the free circulation of air nor destroy the filtering mechanism of the mask."
I'll keep looking. ADDED: More on filter efficiencies at very small particle size ADDED2: Don't put your masks in the window to be disinfected by sunlight, even in plastic bags. The window glass filters out UVc

Just noticed you can “Like” posts again! Good going PP IT.
thought provoking, as always…

Seems like we are in the middle of a catch 22.
Hard quarantine for maybe two years+ to save as many lives a possible (maybe 1% death rate).
Do nothing and suffer maybe a 5%+ death rate because of the increased deaths from the cases that could survive with care if they had been given care. Issue resolves in about a year.
If china has been able to quash HB-19 by strict quarantine, then they have the option to loosen a bit and slowly let their population gain herd immunity. However it will take several years.
I think we will spend a decade rebuilding whatever economy we can sustain irregardless of which method we choose to get thru the crisis.
We have have the needed infrastructure (housing,roads, govt) in place already. We just need to keep making food and medical supplies for as long as it takes to get past this. At that point we can then figure out how to rebuild (what we can) given the state of energy and the climate at that time.

I have absolutely no faith at all.
I have none in any invisible, magical, spook…and I have none in any government’s ability to properly act in the best interests of its citizens…nor, any in most people’s ability to grasp Reality, or to think Rationally.
What is happening now has always been unavoidable. And, it is meaningless to imagine our current state could have been different…in any way, whatsoever.
If you imagine those, who built the Empire State Building, could have chosen not to do so, for example, then what you are “thinking” is Existence need not be what it actually is…and this can NEVER be the case.
Everything is NOT POSSIBLE, as the very concept of “possibility” is an expression of ignorance regarding Existence. In any case of “possibility,” only what actually happens is, or ever was, “possible.”
No matter the number of “possibilities” one imagines for the outcome of any event, or any interaction, what actually does happen was determined to happen, exactly the way it does happen.
Shakespeare was exact correct:
“All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances,…”
Existence is scripted, and your every thought, every gesture, blocked out and choreographed for eternity.
It is only our ignorance, which provides the joy of not knowing our futures perfectly, and which allows us the ability to grow, and gives us the illusion of possessing a “free will.” In this sense, ignorance is a good thing…something to which even an omniscient intellect must flee to avoid the torments of stagnation.
Here now, Humanity, en masse, faces the full force of an Existence, unconcerned by our irrationality and failure to identify it…heedless to our wishes for it to be otherwise…for this pathogen to be other than it is.
Hope? This lies only in our ability to gain power over this threat by correctly identifying exactly every aspect of this pathogen and taking rational action. Values will dictate what actions are taken…and few have rational values.
Oh, well. Sorry for all the philosophical BS…
I’m just glad I bought enough Scotch for this S***show.

As Farmers are in the Old person camp, they will be harder hit than the rest of the population.
Problem for a population needing food.