Our New Endorsed Solution for Purchasing Precious Metals

News & Current Events Public News & Current Events
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21

Ao -
Yes. As disclosed in the original article above:

The members of the Hard Assets Alliance, including Peak Prosperity, receive a portion of the proceeds transacted through the platform. Because the low-cost structure is a major feature of the program, such commissions are very modest and do not affect the prices paid by clients.
Just as PP receives a small fee for transactions made through the affiliate links on our site to BullionVault, GoldMoney, etc.

It's important to be aware that bullion is about as pure a "commodity" as something can be. Therefore, the margins are razor-thin.

To put this into perspective, I've just tallied the total affiliate fees received to our organization from BullionVault and GoldMoney for all of 2011. The total comes to ~5% of the amount Chris and I have funded out of our own pockets to launch this upgraded website along with its new features & improvements. Assuming similar transaction volumes in future years, it would take us 20 years to recoup the nominal cost of our investment from these annual fees. While every bit of revenue helps us continue our operations – these small fees from bullion sales are no incentive to adulterate the impartial & empirical insights Chris and the staff here work so hard to bring to you. 

estatesavr (and others concerend about conflict of interest) -

Beyond continuing to consistently produce & source the unbiased analysis & commentary you value, I'm not sure what else we can say at this point that will make a difference for you.

As Chris often says about our corporate and government leaders: pay attention less to what they say and more to what they do. We remain committed to producing the highest-quality, data-driven insights about our collective global Three E predicament & how you can prudently position yourself accordingly. But don't simply take our word for it: watch us in our continued pursuit of this mission and judge for yourself.

We hate to see any reader leave in disappointment. But if you judge this site does not deliver what you value, we urge you to follow your convictions. Individuals taking the best action for their interests is at the heart of what we're about.

jkuryan (and others with questions about price)  -

I refer you to comment #13 by "Alliance" below. Ed is the General Manager of the HAA and the best one to clarify how its pricing matches up to BullionVault and GoldMoney. It's extremely important to be aware of what the $/oz quoted by each vendor represents (e.g. in some cases it might be for a 1oz coin held in your name, in another it might be for 1oz fractional ownership of a 400oz bar in a pooled account). Also, some vendors charge a 'withdrawal fee' which is not included in the quoted $/oz.

We realize the heterogeneity of the different vendor options is confusing. So, we've put together a matrix that will make it much easier to compare the HAA vs others like GoldMoney and BullionVault. It's in Compliance review right now and should be posted here on the site on Monday.

22

I trust the depth and completeness of any analysis done by Chris - his skills as a researcher are truly second to none. 
Chris has always said a person's core position in precious metals should be in physical bullion under their personal control.  He emphasizes this above.

I assume that most purchasers here will probably want to take delivery.  Pricing is prominently mentioned as an advantage of HAA, as "the low-cost structure is a major feature of the program…"  I noted earlier:

[quote=jrf29]

I quickly compared Hard Assets Alliance's prices for some random items with my usual dealer, Northwest Territorial Mint.  What I found is below:

                                               NWTM                                                             Hard Assets Alliance

Gold Krugerrand:            $1,635.84 delivered (10 or more coins)           $1,661.68 + shipping
                                            $1,640.84 delivered (5-9 coins)
 

Gold philharmonic:          $1,645.89 delivered (10 or more coins)          $1,671.50 + shipping
                                             $1,650.89 delivered (5-9 coins)
 

Gold American Eagle:     $1,665.99 delivered (10 or more coins)          $1,683.37 + shipping
                                             $1,670.99 delivered (5-9 coins)
 

Canadian Maple Leaf:     $1,641.20 delivered (10 or more coins)          $1,656.90 + shipping
                                             $1,646.27 delivered (5-9 coins)
 

Credit Suisse
10-oz gold bar                $16,307.80 delivered                                      $16,386.16 + shipping
 

These prices do not include HAA's mandatory $35 membership fee. [/quote]

I want to emphasize that I am not "throwing rocks" here - I know the depth of research which Chris usually puts into every recommendation that he makes.  I'm wondering if additional factors were taken into consideration that might help us to understand the particular advantages this service offers.  Is it the flexible storage options which make this service the better pick?  Or are there also advantages for people taking delivery?  I would greatly appreciate further information that anybody could offer on the advantages of using HAA for physical delivery, including perhaps from Mr. D'Agostino.

23

Adam,
I appreciate your candor and I hear you.  In the past few years, EVERY single expense in running my business and practice has gone up, many by a considerable margin.  We just found out that the building where we have my practice, which we already pay $9500/yr. taxes on, may very well be reassessed because of new siding and a new roof we had put on … a reassessment that will no doubt be higher.

That being said, we still eschew what is called an "avoidable conflict of interest".  An avoidable conflict of interest is the reason why a physician can't own a pharmacy (although some physicians are worming their ways around these legal and ethical constraints by owning other "profit centers", ranging from MRI centers to blood labs to physical therapy clinics to gyms).  The physician would profit from his own referral which is a situation of questionable ethics.  I often have patients ask me why I don't sell nutritional supplements or other supplies.  I reply that it is an avoidable conflict of interest and I want my recommendation to be unimpeachable in its truthfulness.  Also, if I were selling products, it would add to the cost of the products to them with me being another middleman.  I refer them to an independent supplier where they can get the best quality product at the lowest price.  I want there to be absolutely no question of my motivation, credibility, or integrity.

Similarly, every time PMs are recommended as a holding, either here or from other sources (such as newsletters like as Lee Bellingers'), the (legitimate) question which should come to the potential customer's mind, is "Is this recommendation being made for pure reasons or could a profit motive be involved"?  Completely removing that avoidable conflict of interest from the equation completely eliminates all questioning and raises the person who takes that ethical stand to a higher ethical position, in my estimation.

If jrf29's pricing information is correct, the pricing can't be said to be "excellent".  From what I pay for storage costs, I can assure you, the stated storage costs are not "low".  Perhaps these areas can be restated in terms that more accurately reflect the reality of the situation.  People trust CM, and rightfully so from what I've seen, but when these types of situations are introduced, the opportunity for some abuse of that trust, no matter how small, starts to arise.  Eliminating an avoidable conflict of interest can eliminate that opportunity altogether.

Furthermore, with regards to recommendations of gold bars, with any bars of larger size (let's say kilo bars or larger), at least two problems arise if the individual has those bars in his personal possession, especially a person of average means, and plans on selling them.  First is the problem of finding a party to insure a shipment of that cost.  When I looked, I could find none.  Perhaps you have different information.  Second, a bulk quantity of gold that large has definitely liquidity issues.  Compare the relative ease with which one may sell a 1 ounce gold coin to another private party versus the difficulty of finding a private party who can come up with the funds (and have the trust in that situation) to buy a kilo or larger bar.  When it comes time to sell, and sell quickly, these are major issues.  That smaller premium for a gold bar will likely expand to a larger buy/sell spread when it comes down to the crunch time of selling.  These issues should be considered.

 

 

24

I think some questioners here are missing the forest for the trees, and some are comparing apples to oranges.  I’m sure you can get lower prices elsewhere if you just want to buy some coins and take delivery.  That’s not the point.  HAA offers a comprehensive package, to cover a wide variety of needs, with simplicity and flexibility, from one source.  They are unique.
Based on my preliminary reading of their web site I can see several advantages to HAA.  I’m sure there are more that I have missed.

*  With HAA I can fully own smaller size bars or even coins.  BullionVault (BV) and GoldMoney (GM) only offer a fractional share of the largest size bars.  There is no unique piece of metal that is mine.

*  HAA will securely store the bullion I buy from them.  I don’t have the hassles of arranging separately for a professional vault, and the delay of having my purchases shipped there.

*  I can easily sell them electronically.  Since they stay within the Good Delivery system there is no question of their authenticity. 

*  With HAA I can easily have a portion of my holding shipped directly to me instead of having to sell for cash.  Yes, I know that GM will redeem in SIZE bars, but the cost is outrageous.  I’m not familiar with BV’s policy but I don’t expect it would be much better.

*  Since HAA accounts are based in the USA you don’t have to file FBAR reports with the IRS, yet they offer professional vaults outside of the USA.

If you just want to buy a some coins and keep them in a safe deposit box then this is probably not for you.  But if you want larger amounts of bullion, that you can buy or sell electronically at competitive prices, HAA lets you totally own your choice of bars and coins, safely store them, or have any portion of them shipped directly to you whenever you want.  You can do all this with one company and account, and save a lot of time and hassle in research, maintenance, and transactions.  Can you name anyone else that matches this?  I find HAA very appealing.

Travlin

25

Well stated AO. This is definatly an "avoidable conflict of interest". I hope that Chris and Adam give this careful thought, they have an opportunity to do the right thing.
I joined Peak Prosperity recently because I thought that Chris was one of the most transparent guys in this field.  Peddling products, like dehydrated foods, or ammo or Gold will dilute the stregnth of his message.
The seminars and membership are different. I am contracting to pay for information. I believe that is a good way to get unbiased, truthful information and guidance. 
The stregnth of this forum is it's honesty.

26

I am a born skeptic and question everything, especially when money is involved.  But I don’t see how PeakProsperity’s endorsement of HAA is anything new or dangerous.
As long as I’ve been here we frequently see threads from new and old members asking for advice on investing.  This is particularly true regarding gold and silver.  Members have often asked Chris in particular who could guide them, and who could they trust.  I’m sure there are many more requests we don’t see publically.

When Chris finally endorsed an investment advisory firm the member response was favorable.  Endorsing HAA completes the response to that need.  The important word here is endorse.  I have no doubt that Chris and Adam did thorough due diligence, at a much deeper level than we could achieve.  They are staking their reputations and their livelihoods on the reliability of those they recommend.  I put a very high value on their endorsement.

This site has been operated as a personal mission for a long time.  But Chris and Adam have families to support.  If they can’t make a living at it this site will go away.  That’s just simple math.  The vast majority of information here is given away free.  But the bills still have to be paid.  A PeakProsperity endorsement means a lot to me, and the selected partner should pay something for that if I do business with them.  I trust Chris and Adam.  Their actions demonstrate integrity to me.  They are picking partners that align with their values and assessment of the future.  They didn’t rush this to make a buck.  They took a good long time to make their selection, despite insistent requests from members.

There is no endeavor in this world that is not ultimately supported by money.  We must be realistic about our standards of purity.

Travlin

27

[quote=Travlin]*  With HAA I can easily have a portion of my holding shipped directly to me instead of having to sell for cash.  Yes, I know that GM will redeem in SIZE bars, but the cost is outrageous. 
[/quote]
I meant to say
Yes, I know that GM will redeem in 100 gram or 1,000 gram bars, but the cost is outrageous.
Travlin 

28

I'm with Travlin regarding the conflict of interest discussion.  I note that this site continues to recommend this new source as well as the two existing major sources of precious metals purchase & storage facilities.  Even if there were a conflict of interest issue it would appear to me to be diminimis – insignificant.

29

Well said, Travlin.

30

That would seem to be the obvious conclusion on the surface of it.  But I wouldn't be so quick to cede ground on Chris' behalf.  That was not my intent when I posted the price comparison.  This is the first time that CM has put his endorsement behind a PM dealer, and he probably would not have done so without having put a significant amount of time and effort into making the recommendation.  Chris did specifically say that this service is right for people who want to build their core positions by taking physical delivery. 

I honestly and truly think it would be better to wait until we hear more about the various factors which went into making this choice before we start qualifying or discounting his recommendation.

31

quote=jrf29 I'm wondering if additional factors were taken into consideration that might help us to understand the particular advantages this service offers.  Is it the flexible storage options which make this service the better pick?  Or are there also advantages for people taking delivery?  I would greatly appreciate further information that anybody could offer on the advantages of using HAA for physical delivery, including perhaps from Mr. D'Agostino.
[/quote]
There are a lot of good reasons for offering different solutions towards asset management including gold storage and purchasing.
In agreement with Travlin's piece above, for the person who wants simply to get a few ounces and store them at home, our main advice has not changed or wavered in years.  Find a good dealer and get a few ounces and store them somewhere safe.  None of the third party solutions (BV, HAA or GM) are right for you.  Over the course of the years I have promoted a few websites or dealers that I personally have dealt with and/or heard very good things about.  There was never any compensation or arrangement for sending business to these dealers and brokers.  Like a lot of the content and ideas here, this advice was free.
However some people wish to have their gold held somewhere else and electronic access to the purchase and sale of that gold.  As we've disclosed from the beginning, and quite openly too, we also have a financial arrangement with Bullion Vault and Gold Money  (two organizations that we researched well and know the founders) whereby our promotion of their services results in some funds flowing back towards our operations.  For these firms, this is just a normal part of business (marketing) and it is an arrangement they have with lot and lots of firms and websites.
An alternative to selecting preferred and endorsed parters is to simply run whatever ads come our way through an ad server but I strongly prefer to let you know, cleanly and clearly, which outfits we endorse and why because I can, at any time, change that advice if we receive troubling feedback from anyone about the service.  This has already happened and it is an expression of the true power of having so many intelligent and thoughtful people testing things out and then providing feedback.
If at any time we feel that any operation that we have endorsed is not living up to our standards, we will drop that relationship and do so quite publicly.  So far, all the reports we've received back say that people are quite happy with the firms we endorse.  I hear now that some people think that money will somehow color my view of which firms to endorse.  These people do not know me very well.  I am a quality nut.  If at any time some organization or operation is not living up to our standards (which are very high) we will drop them.  If we find a better one, we will gravitate towards that one.
Continuing along the spectrum of investors there are individuals that have significant assets under management that wish to own fully allocated, insured gold and wish to control for jurisdictional risk and the potential for capital controls by having their gold in vaults that are interconnected and with the opportunity to store the bulk of their assets in their home country.  HAA fits right in here and uniquely meets those needs for a number of individuals.
I have counseled a number of people that placed the bulk of their gold in Swiss storage to consider what will happen if SWI suddenly declares capital controls or changes their tax laws on foreign ownership and disposition of gold, or the US suddenly decides that all foreign assets have to be repatriated with a tax…or new and more onerous tax and account reporting laws applying to foreign accounts continue to pile up…etc, and so forth.
HAA is the first multi-country option we've run across with a vault in the US allowing these concerns to be hedged.  For US clients, keeping the bulk of your gold in your home country has a number of arguments in its favor with 'a bird in the hand' being the most important of all.
Finally,in response to a number of comments seeking the tightest bid/ask spread, I personally do not trade into and out of gold and if you are looking for the best bid/ask spread and are constantly hopping into and out of gold then none of the listed firms are the right ones to use.  There I would recommend either trading the GLD ETF or have a futures account (preferred) because the bid ask is so tight to spot and, in the case of futures, the gains accrue as ordinary short and long term gains rather than under the collectibles rule.
As always, we strongly encourage everyone to go out and due their own due diligence and use whatever platform they feel is best for them.  
As always…trust yourself.
 

32

Chris & Adam,
I have read subsequent posts to my own.  AO's comments are excellent and spot on.

As I read, re-read and ponder this decision of yours I want to ask:

What business are you in?

Are you an information scout?

Or are you in the business of marketing gold & silver bullion, storage foods, etc.?

So far I do not feel you all have made a good case for this decision besides more income for PP.  

To me, your unique proposition is the value you created with the Crash Course.  That is why most of us came here.  That kind of continued analysis is why most of us would stay.

For everyone of us that seems abrased by this there are probably 10 that feel uncomfortable about this.

Like AO's comparison above:  I would be upset if I found out a Physician was directing me towards a diagnostic test  that he stands to profit by.  I want objective, conflict free, advice.

To me, you are not 'sticking to the knitting.'

What business are you in?

 

33

Look, it's like this:
Chris needs to make money to build wealth and support his family and employees.

You don't have to sign on. If you want to sign on, at least you know that he is willing to put his reputation on the line to endorse it.

Caveat emptor. Move on.

That's all.

Poet

34

Adam,Thanks for the clarification. I understand why the prices can be different. I think the matrix will resolve most, if not all, questions regarding this topic.
I think it is great that Chris and you continue to bring us these these recommendations…I have used others that you have recommended in the past and have been very pleased.
 

35

" I think it is great that Chris and you continue to bring us these these recommendations…I have used others that you have recommended in the past and have been very pleased."
Correction- I meant to say " endorsements" as opposed to "recommendation"

36

I have absolute and complete trust into the character of Adam and Chris. I have no issues whatsoever in paying for that piece of mind. Frankly, you get what you pay for and Peak Prosperity has paid so many dividends already that it has frankly changed my life, and not just monetarily either. In saying all of this my style is see gold, buy gold, take gold home.Adam, I wish you didn't have to explain a darn thing and as per usual, class was presented with your thoughtful response even though I have no clue to the meaning of a few of the words you used! I will have to look them up as part of my continuing education.
Thank you
Go Tigers 1st place Baby
Bob

37

Chris, thanks for the detailed explanation of HAA's particular benefits.  In its element, HAA seems to offer significant advantages for flexibility in the allocated storage of PM's.  I can see why you recommended it for that purpose.  Thanks again for taking time to further clarify your recommendation.

38

There are two big differences I see with the new HAA platform.
 

#1 With HAA you can buy whole gold bars and have them stored or delivered. With BV or GoldMoney i'm buying pieces of a gold bar, not a whole gold bar. This is a HUGE difference to me. Also, if i want delivery from BV or GoldMoney its super expensive. This HAA solution is safer to me in that i can own bars or coins and have them delivered if i want. No splitting up a bar with someone.

 

#2 This paltform seems a lot more liquid. With BV i'm trading with other BV members and BV the Company. So there is a chance if the market is trading crazy, I wont be able to exit conveniently or with a good price. I like that HAA actually uses real market makers. Safer. Also, GoldMoney doesnt trade throughout the day, so I dont think it can compare.

39

ADD, my considerations were for trading gold and silver bullion.  My understanding is you don't trade bars on BV, just allocated ounces in bullion  - no serial numbers, no specific bars.   I haven't looked much into taking possession but do know there is some cost in taking smaller amounts of bullion requiring shaving of bars.   the cost for buy and sell transactions is hardly negligible as you can see by the numbers in my last comment.  I don't see the need at the moment to take possession of my PMs since at this time at least I can sell at the push of a button and have cash in hand the next day.  Then if I want to buy and store metals here I can get them pretty cheap and certified quality from a vendor like Tulving.

40

I see Estatesavr's point, in general, but the proven service of Chris and staff, in my mind, leaves no doubt about objectivity and spirit of selfless service to humanity.  So that Peak Prosperity receives some benefit from referrals to the  Alliance in no way prejudices their objectivity even in recommended PM sales platforms, and itt also helps to support their critical work to us, humanity and the earth.  It's a little like NGOs offering credit cards with some benefit to the NGO, or the Girl and Boy Scouts selling popcorn, cookies, etc of a third party vendor with some benefit to those organizations, except in this case Peak  Prosperity's PM platform evaluation they are selecting the best "cookies' and "popcorn" with their usual comprehensive understanding and vision.  And they are also recommending other products.  Peak Prosperity was above board  - how could it be otherwise -  by stating thier benefit from referrals the Alliance up front.  Chris Martenson is NOT personally getting a benefit by the referral, but Peak Prosperity  - the engine of great service to all. It seems to me there is no conflict of interest here but enhancement of all our interests, the individual investors and the organization that is serving these interests and the interests of others who will be reached by their services in the future.   It's simply a win, win, win situation devoid of prejudiced advice or selfish interest.