Revolution coming with next meltdown

This discussion about revolution brings to mind Garet Garrett’s "The Revolution Was" written in 1938.

"There are those who still think they are holding the pass against a revolution that may be coming up the road. But they are gazing in the wrong direction. The revolution is behind them. It went by in the Night of Depression, singing songs to freedom.

There are those who have never ceased to say very earnestly, "Something is going to happen to the American form of government if we don’t watch out." These were the innocent disarmers. Their trust was in words. They had forgotten their Aristotle. More than 2,000 years ago he wrote of what can happen within the form, when "one thing takes the place of another, so that the ancient laws will remain, while the power will be in the hands of those who have brought about revolution in the state."

Worse outwitted were those who kept trying to make sense of the New Deal from the point of view of all that was implicit in the American scheme, charging it therefore with contradiction, fallacy, economic ignorance, and general incompetence to govern.

But it could not be so embarrassed and all that line was wasted, because, in the first place, it never intended to make that kind of sense, and secondly, it took off from nothing that was implicit in the American scheme. It took off from a revolutionary base. The design was European. Regarded from the point of view of revolutionary technic it made perfect sense. Its meaning was revolutionary and it had no other. For what it meant to do it was from the beginning consistent in principle, resourceful, intelligent, masterly in workmanship, and it made not one mistake."

Garet's words are more important today as the bail-outs make absolutely no sense - unless you look deeper, it is another revolution within our government.  FDR used the great depression to forever change and undermine our nation.  The Constitution never intended to give the president anything like the power he has today. 

FDR began the "imperial presidency" which set us squarely on the road from republic to empire.  "When FDR took office and declared the Great Depression a "national emergency," few would disagree.  In his first inaugural address, he announced that he would treat the Depression like a war.  If Congress did not approve his policies for fixing the economy, he would take the same powers that presidents had previously assumed only in wartime.  The emergencies of his day allowed him to take all that power with the blessing of most Americans."

"Roosevelt’s successors used the cold war to justify continuing the imperial presidency. They all claimed that, as long as we were fighting communism, there was a permanent state of national emergency. They used their power to create a genuine American empire.  The greatest emergency today is that we all accept the imperial presidency as an unchangeable fact of life."

And so we find ourselves in revolution again.  And again it is the international banking cartel quietly pushing revolution under the guise of another "emergency." 

I hope that this time, the illegal revolution will be stopped as we are about to lose what is left of our crippled republic and national sovereignty.


That’s an utterly honest piece, Jeff . . . Thanks.  Kind of reminds me of Neil Young’s solo work . . . Who’s the artist?



I am sorry that you "oppose any notion of revolution, peaceful or otherwise".  I am certainly not for any violent actions, although I feel that a lot of civil disobedience is certainly in order.  I believe that we need a marked change, a revolution.  I feel that "the worst among us to act upon their hatred" is a minority in our society.  The largest purveyor of violence in our society is the state itself, within our borders as well as on foreign soil.  This is how I view the state’s response when we, the citizens, do not act subservient. When we "speak out" so that our voices may be heard.  Who really is the one most apt to act in a violent manner?



Revolution does not equal violence!

Carnation Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although the regime's political police, PIDE, killed four people before surrendering, the revolution was unusual in that the revolutionaries did not use direct violence to achieve their goals. Holding red carnations (cravos in Portuguese), many populars joined revolutionary soldiers through the streets of Lisbon, in apparent joy and audible euphoria.


I agree that revolution does not equal violence by the people.  However, there will be much violence against those involved in ANY "revolution".

That makes me think of this.  The state will not tolerate any organized resistance.



I would love to return to our Constitution, not replace it.  However, our leaders have long since lost the desire to follow Constitutional processes, yet you feel that we should abide by them to effect change in a regime that ignores the document.  The Dept. of Education, war without declaration by Congress. "War On Drugs", all NOT provided for by the Constitution.  However, the fruits of our labor are stolen from us and used to fund these activities. I have a hard time "playing by the rules" when others refuse to.


You offered rebuttals to the thoughts of others, but I have no idea what your thoughts are on this. Believe me, I’m all for change in our country, but I’m not willing to bet the life of my child on my beliefs.


The artist is James Blunt out of Britain. He has been around for several years.



I am not sure of my complete plan.  However, my anger runs deep.  I will be at the town hall meeting of my Congressman next week. Not to yell, but to, in a measured way, try to convey to him the growing anger among many that have never thought about their elected officials before.  I am still all for working "within the system" at this point.  I do feel that we should be in the streets in mass to show our displeasure regarding the continued and growing lies from the federal government.  Tea Party, End the Fed, whatever.  I feel we must be visible and in growing numbers.

I want you and others out there with me.  We can cause change if we will just show up in unmanageble numbers without fear.

My other feeling regarding this is just despair and the hope that the "state" will implode and we can elect people that will return us to a Constitutional Republic.

Unfortunately, the life of your child is being bet on the outcome no matter what your involvement is. As Dr. Martensen says, " The next 20 years will be unlike the last 20."  Push for the change you desire.


Someone once said “If you’re going to play cat and mouse with the government then it would be wise to remember who the mouse is”.

Words to live by.

Might I also add a truism.

“If you’re the cat that saviors swatting mice, just remember that if you swat enough of them hard enough, then even a cat is no match for 306 million mice.”


It’s easy to talk about revolution but while the US has a long history of rebellions going back to George Washington executing Continental Army mutineers, the US does not have a history of revolution.   The American Revolution was as much about the local authorities removing the remote authorities as it was about anything else (for ex., the New Jersey governor was collecting tolls during the Revolution? I have to double-check this).
The French Revolution was most like what we think of as revolution where the people at the bottom are put on top.  But things got out of hand with the Reign of Terror killing revolutionaries along with aristrocrats.  Is this something that can be avoided?  Or are we headed toward living in a Myanmar no matter what? Where exactly are ideals and practice expounded  in America except in the Blogosphere?

I’ve recently witnessed several possibly random acts of anger.   But this anger doesn’t seem to me to be single-mndedly directly against Banks, Wall Street, or the US government.   There is a lack coordination and interest and fracturing between immigrants, students, and the middle class.  And the expressions of rage in the news are not spontaneous but are financed.

The US government is not alone that its primary purpose may be to stay in power.   I think we’d do well to leverge the freedoms we still have to improve our lives.  And Thoreau, Gandhi, and King are also my heroes.



Hi Jag,
You said my point was idealistic.  It is indeed!  But it’s not my ideal, it was the very one on which our country was founded.  I simply think it’s time everyone remembered it:

governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed" and "whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends [i.e., protecting life, liberty, and property], it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government" and "when a long train of abuses and usurpations...evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

                        - Thomas Jefferson, Declaration of Independence

Don’t be surprised if your so-called elected official does two things:  (1) Pretends to listen to what you have to say while al the time knowing who really pays his/her salary.  (2)  Talks back at you, strongly, about why he knows what is best, not you.  This is the kind of reaction we get from one, Rep Larsen, in N.W. Washington.  They are very clear that the power is not with the people, but with those who have the multi-million dollar lobbyists.  IT’s about time we get real about this, and stop wasting our time trying to influence these guys with our words.  Our opponents have more money than God.

History Rhymes…
Choiceless Awareness - Jiddu Krishnamurti


Choiceless Awareness

New Delhi Radio Talk 6th November, 1948

The world is in confusion and misery, and every nation, including India, is looking for a way out of this conflict, this mounting sorrow. Though India has gained so-called freedom, she is caught in the turmoil of exploitation, like every other people; communal and caste antagonisms are rife, and though she is not as advanced as the West in technological matters, yet she is faced like the rest of the world with problems that no politician, no economist or reformer, however great, is able to solve. She seems to be so completely overwhelmed by the unexpected problems confronting her, that she is willing to sacrifice, for immediate ends, the essential values and the cumulative understanding of man's struggle. India is giving her heart over to the glittering and glamorous pomp of a modern State. Surely this is not freedom.


India's problem is the world problem, and merely to look to the world for the solution of her problem is to avoid the understanding of the problem itself. Though India has been, in ancient times, a source of great action, merely to look to that past, to breathe the dead air of things that have been, does not bring about creative understanding of the present. Till we understand this aching present there can be no resolution of any human problem, and merely to escape into the past or into the future is utterly vain.

The present crisis, which is obviously unprecedented, demands an entirely new approach to the problem of our existence. Throughout the world man is frustrated and in sorrow, for all the avenues through which he has sought fulfilment have failed him. So, far, the diagnosis and the remedy of this problem have been left to the specialists, and all specialization denies integrated action. We have divided life into departments, and each department has its own expert; and to these experts we have handed over our life, to be shaped according to the pattern of their choice. We have therefore lost all sense of individual responsibility, and this irresponsibility denies self-confidence. The lack of confidence in oneself is the outcome of fear, and we try to cover up this fear through so-called collective action, through the search for immediate results, or through the sacrifice of the present for a future Utopia. Confidence comes with action which is fully thought out and felt out.


Because we have allowed ourselves to become irresponsible, we have bred confusion, and out of our confusion we have chosen leaders who are themselves confused. This has led us to despair, to a deep and aching frustration; it has emptied our hearts, which do not respond eagerly and swiftly, and therefore we never find a new approach to our problems. All that we seem able to do, unfortunately, is to follow some leader, old or new, who promises to take us to another world of hope. Instead of understanding our own irresponsibility, we turn to some ideology or to some easily recognizable social activity. It requires intelligence to perceive clearly that the problem of existence is relationship, which must be approached directly and simply. Because we do not understand relationship, whether with the one or with the many, we look to the expert for the solution of our problems; but it is vain to rely on the specialists, for they cam only think within the pattern of their conditioning. For the solution of this crisis, you and I must look to ourselves - not as of the East or of the West, with a special culture of our own, but as human beings.

Now, we are challenged by war, by race and class, and by technology; and if our response to this challenge is not creatively adequate, we shall have to face greater disaster and greater sorrow. Our real difficulty is that we are so conditioned by our Eastern or Western outlook, or by some cunning ideology, that it has become almost impossible for us to think of the problem anew. You are either an Englishman, an Indian, a Russian, or an American; and you try to answer this challenge according to the pattern in which you have been brought up. But these problems cannot be adequately met as long as you are not free from your national, social and political background or ideology; they can never be solved according to any system, whether of the left or of the right. The many human problems can be solved only, when you and I understand our relationship to each other, and to the collective - which is society. Nothing can live in isolation. To be, is to be related; and because we refuse to see the truth of this our relationships fraught with conflict and pain. We have avoided the challenge by escaping into the abstraction called the mass. This escape has no true significance, for the mass is you and I. It is a fallacy to think in terms of the mass, for the mass is yourself in relationship with another; and if you do not understand this relationship, you become an amorphous entity exploited by the politician, the priest, and the expert.


2012 is a bit extreme, everything I’m reading is pointing to October 1st, 2009. Give or take a couple of weeks.
Of course I would not be surprised that some of it can be hidden, and maybe the Oct. 1st situation ISN’T the death knell that many think it will be.  But it will be a serious downturn.  I would say by Oct 2010, if things haven’t totally collapsed, everyone will be stating how they know things will downturn in October of 2010.  Because it happened in 08, and soon 09. 

Maybe we get 2012.  Maybe 2010.  But there’s 23 trillion reasons why I think Oct 1st or thereabouts is d-day.  I’ll be watching the stock and dollar markets then very closely.

As others have said, get out ‘during’ this bull run.  This is a lucky run imo, and one that can turn around just as fast.

However what the stock market does when hyperinflation (or near that) starts ocurring, I do not know.  Could it go up to 100k?  If so, is 100k even worth the value of 10k today?  Tough questions.  Tough decisions. 

But barring extreme inflation or even hyperinflation I suspect this is everyone’s ‘last chance’ to get out.  If it’s mad money, then you can be more risky with it, but if it’s your retirement, a single bad day/week that you’re in the market and you risk having to work an extra 10 years.  To me that’s not worth a single percentage increase.   Far too much risk, for far too little return.  Many people said 6 months ago, if they could just get back to what they had or close, they’d get out.  Well now or very, very soon imo is the time to take yourself up on your own offer and protect yourself.  You got your chance, your last chance, will you take it? 

I hope so.  I really do.  No average soveirgn or citizen deserves what’s coming.  But those who ignored the risk, will, to whatever extent, deserve a little more than everyone else.   Ask yourself, is it greed keeping you so exposed? If so, then greed may not be good.  (as if it ever was)

“Your ignorance is their power.” - Bumper Sticker
“Stop bitchin’ and start a revolution already!” - Bumper Sticker
There is one emerging trend that I have become keenly aware of lately. Draw your own conclusions as to its significance. If this item is better positioned on the firearms thread, I can do that.
In the past few weeks, I personally have witnessed a number of individuals that I know either commit to purchasing a handgun in the near future or apply for a concealed weapons permit. These individuals are male and female and range in age from a 20 year old college student to a 60 year old high school history teacher (and his wife). None of them cite a specific event, but just state that t.s. will probably h.t.f. and that the economy and policies are “scary” now. Comparisons to Hitler have been bandied as has the notion that America “has been a long time without a real deep crisis or period of civil unrest or war.” Perhaps I just attract individuals that think for themselves (or are paranoid, you decide), but these notions seem to run strongly counter to our dead cat bounce turned earnings rally turned “recession is over!!!” rally in the stock markets. Our politicians give no acknowledgement of these sorts of concerns and in fact I am aware of only a single town hall meeting in northern VA for all the representatives and senators stationed here. My personal representative has not come out for public statement on the health care issue in weeks, despite protests specifically targeted at him to address his constitutents and open up.
Over the same time frame (past 2-3 weeks), we’ve seen “big news” made over individuals exercising their right to open carry a firearm at the many health care town hall events. The videos of Chris Matthews’ interview with William Kostric of New Hampshire is absolutely priceless ( Further afield, an Obama speech at the Phoenix convention center reportedly drew “a dozen” armed citizen protestors, two of them open carrying AR-15s (this is very much worth youtubing as well, search “open carry rally” or try other variations). These events are not exactly Revolution, but neither was the Boston Tea Party at the time.
Furthermore, gun owners will be aware of the ongoing ammo shortages. Things started about a year ago. But at that time, handgun ammo would still be reliably available at least weekly at most of the Wal-Mart stores in my region (D.C. metro area). You just had to check in a few times and eventually it was there. Now, I have ended up turning what would have been an ammo shopping trip into what amounts to a research project of availability in this area. I am not claiming ammo is entirely unavailable (it can be found in small pockets), but Dick’s Sporting goods is the next price tier up from Wal-Mart (25% price increase) and it limits handgun ammo purchases (when they are even available). The point of this is that the most economical handgun ammo has been completely wiped out. Even many large online retailers are backordered until October. My results of calling 15 Wal-Mart stores every other day for 2 weeks are as follows:

     - I still haven’t found ammo for a 9mm, or a .45. Period. I searched a 35 mile radius from the D.C. metro area. Wal-Mart is OUT.

      Comments from Wal-Mart sports department workers (on the ground data, fwiw):

     -“We get shipments every other day, but the shipments are small because every Wal Mart in this region is short of ammo and we only get a small allocation. But each morning at 7 or 8 am, we have a regular group of people that just show up and clean our shelves bare.”

     -“As soon as ammo comes in, it is completely gone in 1 or 2 hours because when someone finds it, they call all their friends and they all load up.

     -“We haven’t had handgun ammo in a long time.

     -From the front desk of the whole store (not the sports department): “All we have now is a few boxes of .40 S&W, no .45 or 9mm.” (surprised that the front desk of the store would know what used to be an esoteric detail).

     -“People are just stockpiling like crazy. Everyone wants 9mm these days. They’re afraid the taxes are gonna go up or something like that.”

     -This one told to me in person, unprovoked by any comments on my part: “Everyone is buying because they are afraid Obama will restrict it. One man just bought $700 worth of ammo last week. Basically, he doubles his purchase each week. The week before that was $400, the week before that, about $200. But there’s a lot of people stockpiling now.”

     -“Well it’s hunting season, so everyone wants it.”
     I find the hunting season quote interesting. In nowhere that I have personally looked has there been anything but full shelves of shotgun shells. Likewise, .223 is available in abundance, as is 30-06 and many other rifle calibers. The only ones that I’ve noticed missing completely are: 9mm, .45, and 22 lr (bulk packages only). There is still some pricier, high velocity 22 lr available. .40 is available, but is sparse. I haven’t really been checking this sort of thing for seasonality year after year, but “hunting season” doesn’t seem like a viable answer when it’s really only handgun ammo and .22 lr that is gone. Does anyone else have any experience in this respect?
     Taken in isolation, any bit of this data is mundane. But all put together, over the period of the past few weeks (in my experience anyway), it really paints a strong picture. I also find it interesting that this seems to be punctuated by the health care proposal. I can only imagine what would happen if we started having town halls on the 2nd Amendment…

     Again, this is not a Revolution in and of itself, but while the stock market has gone down and up, ammo shortages have steadily increased the whole time (in recent times, sharply). Among certain members of our population, there is a perception or an awareness or a feeling of insecurity, call it what you like. But I think this is a reasonably accurate reflection of the social mood of many individuals, who have voted with their dollars to invest in brass. Is this the infamous writing on the wall? Time will tell. Maybe it’s just a trend worth further research. The next off-beat coincident economic indicator: “handgun ammo shortage index”???


P.S. - Any similar experiences?


I would caution against drawing any sinister conclusions from your experiences.  I lived in VA many years ago and it was a stronghold of the gun culture then.  I doubt it has changed much, particularly in northern VA where there is always a tension between locals and the DC crowd, sometimes leading to paranoic reactions.

The only ammo you listed that I’m familiar with locally is .22LR because I just bought a bunch.  The shelves are stacked with it at my local Dick’s.  I’m not in the market for .45 or 9mm because I don’t have guns that use either, so don’t know what availability is like.  I will check it out the next time I’m at Dick’s or other stores that sell guns and ammo.

Doug: I appreciate your input, and to clarify, I’m not pointing to this as a revolution. I am saying that 1 of 2 things is going on. Either A) people are doing A LOT of handgun target practice lately or B) People are buying A LOT of ammo and not shooting it. The real question is why? and that is something that can only be inferred right now.
Perhaps we have had different social and employment spheres in the D.C. area, or maybe it has just changed over time. But I think there are significant differences between northern VA and the rest of the state. My assessment is that the extremely high percentage of government and government related jobs have actually increased the D.C. region’s “love of big government” over time and generally increased their faith in government as well. To be perfectly frank, you have to look a little to see the visible signs of recession here in northern VA. New jobs are not booming, but other than that, things are humming along.
Also, although I would characterize southern and rural VA as a very pro-gun, anti-big government region, the D.C. area is most definitely not. Indeed, D.C. itself has some of the strictest gun restrictions in America. The extreme differences between northern VA and the rest of the state have even led to an ongoing pseudo-debate about splitting the state.

If you don’t mind my asking, when were living in Virginia last, and when were you here?



being a most reluctant and inefficient typist i’ll briefly reply to Mike Pilat
that suthren/rerl VA is not as pro gun/anti-big gov. as assumed. the dependancy

many in the rural south haveupon “big gov.” has created a subliminal if not outright

affection for the easy existence of consequence.



husband,father,farmer,optometrist,Amelia virginia