Rising Police Aggression A Telling Indicator Of Our Societal Decline

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Hi All,
I heard this on Democracy Now this morning…Amy Goodman read it aloud…says it all…

 

My greater source of personal concern, outrage and sympathy beyond this particular case is focused neither upon one night's property damage nor upon the acts group but is focused rather upon the past four-decade period during which an American political elite have shipped middle class and working class jobs away from Baltimore and cities and towns around the US to 3rd world dictatorships like China and others plunged tens of millions of good hard working Americans into economic devastation and then followed that action around the nation by diminishing every Americans civil rights protections in order to control an unfairly impoverished population living under an civil rights protections in order to control an unfairly impoverished population living under an ever-declining standard of living and suffering at the butt end of an ever-more militarized and aggressive surveillance state.

The innocent working families of all backgrounds whose lives and dreams have been cut short by excessive violence, surveillance, and other abuses of the bill of rights by government pay the true price, an ultimate price, and one that far exceeds the importance of any kids' game played tonight, or ever, at Camden Yards.

We need to keep in mind people are suffering and dying around the US and while we are thankful no one was injured at Camden Yards, there is a far bigger picture for poor Americans in Baltimore and everywhere who don't have jobs and are losing economic civil and legal rights and this is makes inconvenience at a ball game irrelevant in light of the needless suffering government is inflicting upon ordinary Americans.

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Hi All,
I heard this on Democracy Now this morning…Amy Goodman read it aloud…This is from John P. Angelos' Twitter account in response to what happened at the baseball stadium.  He is also the son of the team's owner.  It almost says it all…

 

"My greater source of personal concern, outrage and sympathy beyond this particular case is focused neither upon one night's property damage nor upon the acts group but is focused rather upon the past four-decade period during which an American political elite have shipped middle class and working class jobs away from Baltimore and cities and towns around the US to 3rd world dictatorships like China and others plunged tens of millions of good hard working Americans into economic devastation and then followed that action around the nation by diminishing every Americans civil rights protections in order to control an unfairly impoverished population living under an civil rights protections in order to control an unfairly impoverished population living under an ever-declining standard of living and suffering at the butt end of an ever-more militarized and aggressive surveillance state.

The innocent working families of all backgrounds whose lives and dreams have been cut short by excessive violence, surveillance, and other abuses of the bill of rights by government pay the true price, an ultimate price, and one that far exceeds the importance of any kids' game played tonight, or ever, at Camden Yards.

We need to keep in mind people are suffering and dying around the US and while we are thankful no one was injured at Camden Yards, there is a far bigger picture for poor Americans in Baltimore and everywhere who don't have jobs and are losing economic civil and legal rights and this is makes inconvenience at a ball game irrelevant in light of the needless suffering government is inflicting upon ordinary Americans."

 

 

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There must have been a time lapse from when I read the final comment before I went out and looked for the quote that I posted because when I looked again I saw that Time2help already posted it.  Sorry for the duplicate effort.  
Broadspectrum

64

How's that Multiculturalism thing working for you?
Us Rhodesian whites were outnumbered 21:1 Our future depended on getting it right. We failed. Zimbabwe is now mono-cultural. Bob Mugabe insisted on that.

Japan won't touch Multiculturalism with a barge pole

Cause your friends are my friends, and my friends are your friends.The more we get together,the happier we'll be.
Prognosis: Balkanization.  ( Which is a euphemism for Apartheid.  Enjoy.)

Australia follows in Big Brother's footsteps. Multiculturalism requires careful consideration. It is a one way street.

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Hey man, pile on!  The more the merrier .

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No matter what one's view on multiculturalism, it is worth adding that in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe and North America, it was the Anglo-saxons that initiated the multiculturalism, by moving to a place inhabited by people of other races and, in the latter case, by importing people of another race against their will as slaves.

Our cultural ancestors, and possibly our genetic ancestors, made those beds and now we need to figure out how to lie in them with everyone else we invited (or climbed into bed with), one way or another.  

A predicament?  Maybe, but race is not the only lens through which we can view the problem of an overly militarized police force (or even the problem of poverty, crime, and riots).  The growth of an onerous state in mid-to-late stages of civilization seems to be a fairly consistent phenomenon in many historical civilizations, regardless of the racial composition of the society.  Ditto for the growth of an urban underclass.  The Romans and the Han Chinese had their underclasses too.

 

67

My thoughts on muliculturalism. To me it's not a black/white thing or a hispanic/white thing it's more of moral/immoral or hardworking/slothful thing. 
I live in an are of south Texas with a large Hispanic population, and I speak fluent Spanish. Actually my three lovely daughters are half hispanic half white. My motto has always been "better half bred than inbred" Anyway back to my point. As a General Contractor I meet lots of "Mexican" guys and become friends with some and never want to see others again.  Right now I've got a guy "Fredrico" who does tile work for me and he is the most conscientious guy I think I've ever met.  He listens to Christian music while he works and always goes the extra mile to satisfy himself in striving for perfection. I feel energized and blessed to be around him. 

Opposed to that was a couple of guys (24 years old) I hired who had young babies and I thought wanted to better themselves. They were obsequious in my presence, but robbed me blind. Did shoddy work and argued with me when I tried to point out how things could be done better. They are gone.

I can't look at someone and try to compensate for how their great grandfather might have been treated, but I can sure give a chance, and a bonus, and an extra compliment to someone who makes that extra effort. 

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He definitely has his mare settled.
robie

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Look forward to raising a glass with you …my friend. Thanks

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As a matriarch in a multicultural family, (six adopted Vietnamese children, 3 from birth, 3 with 10 years of various forms of baggage from street living in poverty, 1 African American son-in-law) I have to agree heartily with OOG, race is the least useful marker in determining the 'content of the character.' 

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I'm not trying to argue about race being a non-issue, but race does at times confer culture. 
Whether or not that culture is on that has been created through forced austerity or not is something that can be discussed, but there's not question that in Arthur's comparison, the validity stems from the observation that mutually exclusive cultures cannot always be reconciled. 
The culture of Zimbabwe is one of exclusion. White farmers were ostracized, beaten, and in some cases killed. Their land was redistributed to the native culture of Zimbabwe, which is now an utter catastrophe. In this case, a productive population was driven out by racism (let's face it - the whites in Rhodesia were not the 17th century Belgian conquerers, they were 'natives" by the 1980's, I'd say) and the now dominant culture is defunct and destructive. 
Multiculturalism failed there because there was no sense of unity. In the U.S., there is a sense of unity. You would just never guess by watching the TV. 

What we need is to bolster that sense of unity, so that we are less "multi-cultural", because I believe Arthur's point was having independent and mutually exclusive cultures in the same living space is a recipe for conflict. I've seen this a few times, as I know he has. Afghanistan is very nearly racially homogenous, but cultures fluctuate with region, language, tribal affiliation, and religious affiliation. Because of this, there is no cultural homogeneity and conflict is nearly constant.
It would be wise to set aside the PC bandwagon and think on the implications. 
For example, I would bet that OOG's workers or Jennifersam07's workers and families are culturally homogenous. They share common values and do not view themselves as 'separate' from one another. 
Right now, it would be impossible for urban blacks in Baltimore to feel a kinship to their Caucasian leadership in WADC.I'd guess they have little in common with other groups of Blacks in other counties and cities. They share no culture, no values and no common interest.
How can that be reconciled?
History says conflict, but I certainly hope cooler heads prevail. That would seem to mean balkanization, but I'd rather see that than a civil war…
Aaron

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Race and culture are not the same. But doesn't it seem like today race is a proxy for culture – a shortcut way to determine whether someone is a 'them' or an 'us'? And agreed, that's because we are losing our shared culture in the US because of this sense that the 'melting pot' ideal carefully inculcated in youth through the public education system was a myth and 'multiculturalism' is a better approach. Which it may be, IF you can also instill mutual respect. It is possible, but it's a whole lot harder to get people to have mutual respect than to use the education system to force feed a shared culture. Multiculturalism invites 'them vs. us'. Especially when there is so much real and perceived injustice and inequality. But I believe you can have multiculturalism in a free society if you also have as a foundation an unshakeable belief in mutual respect, which is in our Constitution, so should be possible if an incorruptible justice system enforces it. It starts at the family level. There's no other way. Strong families that teach kids to be/do good, even when it seems like life isn't fair; Strong communities, with strong schools/institutions that don't invite hypocrisy, and cynicism; when you have that, you have a strong national culture. Reference: community building threads. It ain't easy. In our family, if you asked members at various times if we have a shared culture, some days it would be yes, but not always. If kids are raised to expect justice, then they have hope, they work hard, they follow the rules. If over several generations, there is no expectation of justice, then all hell breaks loose. Hard to break that cycle, although it is possible, and happens all the time. For the most part, the successful person that grows up in that kind of chaos is the one that leaves. 

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Can you run from police? In US, rule is murky

[quote=AssociatedPress]

"Fleeing from police is not, by itself, illegal in America, and the U.S. Supreme Court has made clear that in safe neighborhoods, people not suspected of criminal activity can ignore a police officer who approaches them, even to the point of walking away.

But courts have set a different standard for places where street crime is common, ruling that police can chase, stop and frisk people if their location contributes to a suspicion of criminal activity.

This double standard is having a major impact as more black men die in encounters with police around the country. Many have been shot or tackled while trying to flee. The court rulings justifying police chases in high-crime areas where many African-Americans live are contributing to a dangerous divide between police and citizens, said Ezekiel Edwards, director of the Criminal Law Reform Project at the American Civil Liberties Union.

"Folks who are going to be the most intimidated or scared of the police are the same people in places where the Supreme Court has said, 'if you run from police, that's suspicion,' " he said."

[/quote]

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Another comment on the relationship between race and culture.  It's been my experience that "blacks" from outside the USA, particularly from Africa and the Caribbean have a far different work ethic and standard of behavior than many "blacks" who grew up up in the USA.  
Of course, my sample size is relatively limited, having known only a handful of such immigrants.  But the difference was striking enough to convince me that the high crime rate and low morality apparent in many black neighborhoods in the USA has very little to do with biology.  Unfortunately it seems as if it's the American Black Culture that has devolved so grossly.  Rappers, thugs and dealers are now glorified while conscientious young men are "Uncle Toms."  Dr. King must be spinning in his grave.

I'm quite sure there are several reasons for the devolution of black culture in America but the one in the forefront of my mind is the creation of the Welfare State.  The (almost all) white "benefactors" have been handing the (predominantly) black underclass just enough $$$ and benefits to keep them hooked on poverty.  It's never enough to lift them out of poverty and it's never so little as to provoke them to raise themselves out of poverty.

T.

76

It's coming from the Hedge, so assume it's hyped up and over, however I find it interesting that the Texas Governor feels this necessary.
Texas Governor Calls Up State Guard To Counter Jade Helm "Federal Invasion" Fears

http://www.scribd.com/doc/263543500/Abbott-Jade-Helm

(The order basically directs the Texas State Guard to monitor the operation)

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As the article points out, running from police (by itself) is not a crime nor is it (by itself) legal grounds for a police stop.  However, along with other elements of reasonable suspicion which the officer may have in his/her mind, flight from police CAN contribute to sufficient legal grounds for a police pursuit and stop.  This is admittedly a difficult gray area into which officers (who as we all know are generally of average or less than average intelligence) are thrust and about which they have to make split-second decisions.  The public, highly intelligent lawyers, and super highly intelligent judges get months and years to pore over each case, do research, listen to arguments for and against, discuss it among their august minds, and then finally render a final, legally-binding decision.
Just yesterday two of my subordinate officers who have a total of 28 months in the police department (combined) were asking me about the Freddie Gray case in Baltimore and how it should affect their decision-making and actions here.  We specifically discussed the issue of the legal grounds for initiating a foot pursuit.  I related it to a burglary suspect we are very interested in at this time.  The last time we arrested Mr. "Smith" for burglary, he went to prison for a year and a half for committing three home break ins (burglaries), though we suspected him of five others.  Mr. Smith has now been released from prison and is on parole back in our neighborhood.  Coincidentally (or not), we have a new pattern of burglaries in which the targets (Asian residents) and the M.O. are the same as Mr. Smith's previous burglaries in this high crime neighborhood in which his home is situated.  The suspect(s) knock on the target's door (within 3 blocks of Mr. Smith's house) and if they get no answer (indicating no one's home) they climb into the alley and make their way to the rear of the targeted property. There they break into a first or second floor window, usually by removing a window air conditioner.  Then the burglar(s) goes to the living room and jams a piece of furniture under the door knob on the inside of the front door so if the residents come home it will be difficult, loud and time-consuming for them to get inside which will alert the burglar(s) who will then have time to make his escape out the back door. Often, the only things the burglar steals from the home are money and valuables small enough to be carried in his pockets or a small back pack. So my officers wanted to know if they could stop and investigate Mr. Smith just because he has multiple burglary convictions on his record and our new burglary pattern matches him to a "T."  I told them "No," that would be insufficient reasonable suspicion to stop him.  Then they asked, "What if when he saw us and we saw him, he took off running from us before we said or did anything."  I said "Yes," that third element would be enough (along with his burglary history, and our new burglaries which started as soon as he got out of prison) to chase Mr. Smith.  At law, flight from police can usually be used as an indication of that person's knowledge of their own guilt and desire to avoid arrest.  So, in our current situation, we would have three elements of our reasonable suspicion which would justify our pursuit: felony history, a new pattern of the same crime in the same high crime neighborhood now that he's newly out of prison, and his attempt to flee for no apparent reason. 

However, those elements of reasonable suspicion would not be probable cause grounds for an arrest or a lengthy detention.  In the above case of a foot pursuit of Mr. Smith, only after the officers caught him and had a chance to conduct a street investigation could there possibly be an arrest.  Hypothetically, let's say Mr. Smith could not be arrested for any burglary because there was no evidence to connect him to one.  But let's say the officers frisked Mr. Smith for weapons and found an illegal, spring-operated switchblade knife in his pocket, they could arrest him for that even though that wasn't what they were originally suspicious about (this is the only charge Baltimore police put on Freddie Gray in similar circumstances).  If there was no evidence of any crime and no open arrest warrant, Mr. Smith would be sent on his way, a free man.  

So: members of the public are free to run from the police when they see them.  Police are also free to chase them IF (in their own minds based on their own knowledge and experience) they have grounds to have a reasonable suspicion that the person who runs is guilty of some crime.  Who decides what is a reasonable suspicion?  The officer has to make that decision on the street in a split second.  However, when the case gets to court the judge and jury will decide if the officer had sufficient reasonable suspicion to start the foot pursuit in the first place.  If the judge/jury decide there was NOT sufficient reasonable suspicion for the initial foot pursuit, then almost always the arrest is thrown out and the suspect is free to go.

What is ABSOLUTELY NOT LEGAL, MORAL OR ACCEPTABLE under any circumstances is that the officers injure the suspect (or by negligence allow him to be injured) so badly that he dies !

Tom

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Tom:  In addition to my usual business law courses at the local community college, this semester, I was assigned to teach Criminal Law and the Constitution to students hoping to become officers. I wish I had had your description of reasonable suspicion a few weeks ago to share with them.  It is right on target.
Needless to say, with all the issues in the news, this was a perfect time to be teaching this subject.  We had a number of heated and interesting discussions.

Keep up the good work.  With your permission I may print out your post and use it in future courses.

 

JT

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Thanks for the frequent professional insights.

Can you elaborate a bit re when a weapons frisk is allowed.

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https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/29/david-simon-on-baltimore-s-anguish?ref=hp-1-111
Even though I don't agree with everything he writes, David Simon exhibits in this article a deep and profound understanding of policing, race and culture, and he learned it in Baltimore.  He was the main writer for "The Wire" teevee series, which is the favorite police show of every cop I know (sorry, I've never seen it as I watch precious little teevee).

It's long but you'd be rewarded by reading it all.

Tom