Rising Police Aggression A Telling Indicator Of Our Societal Decline

Yo Denny!
I wondered if anybody would ask about frisks.  A frisk is NOT a search.  It is less than a search and for a different reason than the multiple reasons behind a search.  Definition: a frisk of a person is when an officer pats down the outermost layer of clothing of a suspect to see if s/he can detect a weapon.  This does not include emptying the suspect's pockets, removing shoes, etc.  A vehicle can also be frisked for weapons on a car stop.  This is when the officer looks at or into any open and unlocked place in the car which the suspect could reach while seated (to make sure s/he can't reach a weapon during the interview).  Both of these frisks, if they are going to be done properly, should be done at the beginning of an encounter with a suspect because the purpose is to allow the officer to conduct a street interview/investigation without fear of being stabbed or shot in the process.  The courts have consistently given officers on a legal, justified stop wide latitude when deciding when to conduct a frisk.  Basically, any time an officer can describe a factor or factors that make them concerned for their safety while conducting a stop, they are allowed to conduct a frisk.  In recent years state courts and the Supreme Court have even ruled that officers can frisk occupants of a car in any car stop without additional grounds beyond the fact that the car has been stopped for investigation.  The consistent reasoning behind this is that car stops are so inherently dangerous that no additional grounds for concern is required before conducting a frisk.  There are many, many reasons an officer would legitimately be concerned about weapons and therefore be justified in conducting a frisk: the suspect fled from police, the suspect is recognized by the officer as having an open arrest warrant, the officer saw the pedestrian or driver commit an offense of some kind, the suspect matches the description of someone who just committed a crime, the suspect has a bulge in his pocket or waistband that might be a weapon, the outline of an actual weapon can be seen under the clothing, the suspect has assaulted police in the past, the suspect is known to the officer for having committed violent crime in the past, and so on.

The officer may go into a suspect's pocket, sock (above the ankle), cap or waistband to pull out a suspicious object he felt through the clothing and is concerned may be a weapon or used as an improvised weapon against the officer.  Again, there are many, many things an officer may see or feel in that outer layer of clothing that raise his suspicion and therefore legally justify him/her removing the item to examine it or at least put it out of the suspect's reach during the interview.  Criminals are extremely creative in concealing and improvising weapons, so officers remove from the clothing many, many items the average person would say was unjustified because the item was clearly not a weapon.  For instance, I remove every cigarette pack and cell phone I come across, because companies sell small firearms and stun guns disguised to look and feel like a real cigarette pack or cell phone.  It's the same with a key ring.  Just the keys themselves held in a fist can be an effective weapon, but I don't think I'll ever quit seeing new weapons on key rings I've never seen before.  The same is true of credit cards and other items of the same dimensions.  There are some wicked razor weapons hidden such cards.  This subject is huge.

A frisk is not a search for drugs or evidence of a crime, however, drugs and evidence are sometimes discovered while conducting a frisk for weapons. For instance, crack and heroin are often hidden in cigarette packs.  I've pulled out cigarette packs to make sure that's exactly what they are (not guns), opened them to make sure, only to see narcotics inside among the cigarettes.  Judges and juries, not to mention defense lawyers, are naturally suspicious of these discoveries, so the officer better have a good, believable explanation how s/he found a tiny packet of heroin on a frisk.  Cases are often thrown out because the judge or jury think the officer conducted an illegal search, instead of a frisk.

Here's a disturbing video of a rookie police officer who is conducting an interview of young man who has been involved in a domestic dispute with his girlfriend.  The officer doesn't conduct a frisk at the beginning of the interview like he should have, but after talking to him for many minutes tells the young man he wants to frisk him for weapons.  The officer uses poor tactics to initiate the frisk.  Sadly, the officer paid for his mistakes with his life when the suspect who had had a revolver in his pocket the whole time shoots the rookie officer to death.  That incident is exactly why officers conduct frisks.  Caution: adult video.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2911112/Police-body-camera-video-shows-moment-domestic-violence-suspect-suddenly-pulls-gun-fatally-fire-24-year-old-rookie-officer.htmlito=video_player_click

Everyone has a feelgood anecdote OOG.
Here is mine, although it is not unique in Rhodesia. My childhood companions were mixed until we were rounded up into all white schools in order to fashion us into instruments of The Empire.

(Which didn't work, by the way.We were too far gone by that stage. Hence Britain dropping the entire Empire thingy in favour of being in the European club. We had all gone native. A whole nuther story)

75% of our army was black. We fought and died watching each other's backs.

However in the final analysis,  we failed. There is no avoiding that conclusion. Obvious differences will always be used by the Divide-and-conquer mob, and unless we can circumvent their tactics they will win and we will fail, yet again.

The world is the way it is, not the way it aught to be.

How to stop the rioting in Baltimore
Arrest the group of officers who were in the van with Freddie Gray when his larynx was crushed and neck broken.  Take them to jail. Book 'em.   Let them know that their careers in law enforcement are over and they are all being charged with a major crime:  manslaughter, second degree murder, accessory to murder—not sure what charges would fit here.  Plan on having the officers ponder how they will explain the injuries to a jury of largely black Baltimore citizens who will sit expectantly to hear their stories.  Promise them all significant prison time.

Now if any should choose not to go to prison themselves, they can tell the court who exactly it was in the group that broke his neck and twisted his head so forcefully that it was nearly ripped off his spine. I think that it is pretty likely that they all know exactly who did it.  

 

 

 

The police chief should hold a press conference and stand up and say very very clearly: 

“This is just not allowed.  Our department does not allow this from our officers.  This will never happen again.  I will not allow it.”
 

A conspicuous commitment to justice by the Baltimore PD will permit citizens to respect the police and stop fearing execution during arrests and traffic stops.


Thinking inspired by this incisive op-ed in The Atlantic.
 

Provocateurs, Sand Puppy.
Who benefits? 

Question: Does the MIC need a credible enemy? Perhaps nuclear armed Russia is not a credible enemy? 

Ask THC, do normal police officers in his section behave like this? Were they real officers? 

Never underestimate the perfidity of The Ape.

Question everything.  

Believe half of what you see and a quarter of what you hear
My Dad.

That was like dropping an encyclopedia flat on the ground in a quiet library.

This is a dramatic twist. Not to say that it is true, but it sure sheds some doubt on the case.  http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/30/report-freddie-gray-may-have-intentionally-tried-to-injure-self-in-police-van/

[quote=FoxNews]"Freddie Gray, whose death triggered Monday’s rioting in Baltimore, may have intentionally tried to injure himself in a police van, according to another prisoner in the vehicle, the Washington Post reported late Wednesday night.
The Post said the unidentified prisoner, who was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him, reportedly said he heard Gray “banging himself against the walls” and believed he “was intentionally trying to injure himself.

The prisoner’s statements were contained in an investigative document obtained by the paper, which said it was unclear if there was any additional information to support the theory.

Gray, who is black, was arrested April 12 after he ran from police. Officers held him down, handcuffed him and loaded him into the police van. While inside, he became irate and leg cuffs were put on him, police had said. At some point, he suffered a severe spinal injury and was unconscious when the van arrived at a police station.

Authorities have not explained how or when Gray’s spine was injured. He died April 19."[/quote]

How convenient. More BS. The lies wear thin.

How do you know what's true?  A possibility is that he was amped up on drugs, and did something crazy to himself. Another possibility is that he was murdered. Let's use the system that we have to try to find the truth. Seems like no one has the patience to wait till the investigation is complete before passing judgment.

Tom,
I thought it interesting that you chose a domestic violence call to make your point. Unless a person has been in the middle of one of those calls, they would never believe how they turn out sometimes. 

Nothing like treating the woman who was just beaten to a pulp by her "partner" and watch her get up, and jump on the back of the cop who was handcuffing him to haul him away. Thereby "defending" the person that had just beaten her! The psychological mess that a domestic violence call is for all involved, can't be underscored by simple definition. And by all involved I do mean everyone at that scene, victims, perpetrators, the police and EMS as well. That is why I had an engine company always roll with EMS responding to a "domestic" injury. Emotions run high on all sides.

So, by picking this type of call and stating that you would never back down in this instance is cherry picking as much as you accuse Chris of doing. Of course no one would expect you to back down. And, in fairness, usually all it takes is a uniform to have the bad guy back down most of the time. We both know that happens less and less these days. Why do you enter that scene with multiple officers? I would bet it is for the same reason I had an engine company back up the EMT's. There is safety in numbers.  And, sometimes all that is needed is a "show of force."

Let me spin that scenario, what happens when the "husband" turns tail and runs? He flees the scene, or at least tries to run. Would it be proper or "allowable" to shoot him in the back? You would say, if he gets away, he could return to the house and "finish" the job he started on her. 

Domestic calls are a "Kobayashi Maru." 

The problem is the moral decay of our society. No one accepts responsibility for their own actions. If someone in our "tribe" acts badly, we cover for them. The proper question to ask is "What do we do to correct the rot?"

I hear you OOG. 
 
However, if we find out that one of the officers in the van ride for Mr. Gray has been going through heavy remorse over his death (perhaps he was "involved" in Mr. Gray's accident), and said officer decides to take his own life (at home, possibly with a nail gun or such) with a note conveniently expressing said remorse...I would be shocked.
 
 

I'm thinking a Hitachi Full Round Head Framer would be the right tool.

Good choice!  I hear a committed individual can use as few as 5-6 nails on themselves to shuffle off this mortal coil…

/Gallows humor.

//Wish it had no basis in truth.

…someone else drops an encyclopedia flat on the ground in a quiet library.

As I watch cases like Freddie Gray unfold, I often ask myself what it must be like for the cops having to police an area like inner Baltimore. The statistic probability of any given person on the street having a wrap sheet is high. Why that is, is quite complex. Take Freddie Gray, already in the year 2015 he had burglary, assault, and controlled substance charges leveled against him. Dealing with muscular young guys high on drugs with limited communicative skills can't be easy work. How many of the looters piling out of the CVS would any of you feel comfortable hiring if you were a supervisor or company owner? Is that a fair question to ask? 
The Four Horseman documentary released a few years ago specifically mentioned Baltimore at around the 34 minute mark. It fingered Wells Fargo as a player that purposely targeted blacks with complex loans and higher rates than peers in the run up to the last financial crisis. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fbvquHSPJU&feature=youtu.be Large financial institutions undoubtedly perpetuate and deepen inequality for many in the USA. Very few citizens are conscientious or inquisitive enough to figure that out however. People generally believe the narratives that are played over and over again.
Another thing that really seems to work against the poor and particularly Blacks in inner cities is the war on drugs. I think we can all remember the differences in sentencing guidelines between cocaine and crack. I'm sure that was just a coincidence, eh? Creator of the TV show The Wire, David Simon has talked about how the drug war drove problems in Baltimore. Issues like as making loitering an offense in vast areas of the inner city. He also talks about how classically the most abusive police in Baltimore are black, because they can "get away with more".
In the end, I generally think the racially related police shootings and killings in the press are sometimes the least outrageous. I think it's pretty clear Michael Brown wasn't exactly the great kid the press many times pumped. He was a massive guy who bullied a shopkeeper and was shot at range close enough to get powder residue on his body. Of course afterward there were stories that disputed this. The news is great…I can hardly wait to see the video of the Tsarnev brothers dropping their backpacks. It will be released one day correct? It's probably filed away with the pictures of Bin Laden shot and the Ark of the Covenant.
At any rate, the gal who was shot with an AR15 in North Idaho, that was a couple blocks from my work. No national story there. How about the homeless camper that was stun grenaded and shot dead while camping outside Albuquerque a few years back? Good thing they sicced that German Shepard on him before they killed him. http://www.policemag.com/videos/channel/patrol/2014/03/albuquerque-pd-releases-video-of-controversial-camper-shooting.aspx It really seems that the racially related shootings/deaths are what the media is feeding us.They are many times tragic and unjust, but one has to wonder why the obsession. Does it just flat out sell?  
As a closer concerning what we are fed, I'll leave this. As a young man I lived in Georgia for a number of years and worked extensively around Atlanta. While living there, I had countless experiences where I would run into Black Muslims that passed out pamphlets roadside. Most of the time they would make eye contact with me and turn the eyes away immediately. I did manage to get my hands on the pamphlets a couple times and although the only specific I can remember was an article on using a straight razor, the tone was overtly racist. At the same time, the only racism stories I ever hear about the South is KKK stuff. Pretty much a dead institution full of idiots. It's always important to realize the media we ingest is being fed to us. As always Chris, thank you for providing alternate media in that environment. 

Looks like the police made another stop with their van while they had Gray in the back… a stop that was captured on a local camera but was not mentioned by any of the officers in their initial depositions,

Now police are saying an additional stop was made before the driver asked officers to check on his condition. They said nothing about this stop other than its location — at what appears to be a desolate intersection with three vacant lots and a corner store. Last week, Batts had said the second prisoner told investigators the driver did not speed, make sudden stops or "drive erratically" during the trip, and that Gray was "was still moving around, that he was kicking and making noises" up until the van arrived at the police station.
http://news.yahoo.com/baltimore-officials-no-immediate-decision-gray-case-083053498.html
Now why would that be?  Hmmmmmmmmmm?  Maybe Gray needed a little extra, "tending to" back there that could not be accomplished in a moving van.  Just speculating... right?    

I am not American and don't live in the USA. I cannot comment much on something I am not immersed in. Below is what I lived 25-30 years ago (1986 to 1993). There are some similarities as well as big differences with the current situation. The common point is, IMO, loss of reciprocal trust.
The country was swimming in money thanks to oil and gas revenues. We were having plenty of almost everything. So everyone had enough to eat, not forced to work and knew that politicians were totally corrupt. But again, enough to eat makes you to be a cat without claws.

When price of oil went down in 1983, the country did had difficulty to feed everyone as before (Food sufficiency was an issue since a long time, but money was hiding this reality) and politicians started talking about restructuring government owned companies (laying off people, etc…). Getting politicians more honest was not on the ToDo list.

People started marching in the streets (1986-1990) asking for more food, housing, work, democracy. The police was patient. They let people "camp in streets" for weeks and months until someone shot a police officer. This was (one of) the trigger(s) for violent repression from police and army. The game then became simple: Uniforms against non-uniforms. No one cared anymore of who started the game. Imagine the stress of the guys who wear uniforms. They are easy and visible targets. They went really bad in their behavior and set the following rule: For every police officer that is killed, ten civilians will be killed the following night and their bodies thrown in streets. They held their word.

The following words describe best the situation: escalation and civil war.

I went to the conclusion that the two camps were so hardly rooted into their respective belief, that it would take a long time (several generations) to return to a peaceful cohabitation. And today, I would add enough resources (food, water, shelter, job) that are shared in a fair way.

Today, one generation later, violence is still there. However, the country is relatively quiet because food is heavily subsidized. For how long, now that oil price plummeted?

I decided to leave the country for a better one. I could have decided to stay, and then the only choices would be: 1) to fight for social peace or 2) adapt.

Since it is not feasible for all inhabitants to leave their country, the majority will have to adapt to the new situation (I am not saying violence is normal. I am saying that as long as critical mass for change is not reached, the safest option is to go under the radar). For violent persons, this is no brainer. They don't even think about it. Violence is natural for them. But for the rest, this is different. They have to position themselves to avoid trouble as much as they can.

Here is the recipe as I understood it in the eighties:

  • Police officers were not, on average, violent. They became violent when they became targets.
  • Police was seeing themselves same as population, but population started shooting them.
  • Police were aware that politicians were totally corrupt, but politicians didn't shoot them.
  • Politicians did nothing to protect the police, so the police decided to protect themselves (Easy to do; they have everything they need).
  • Population wanted more justice (food, shelter, jobs), but politicians send them police and army.
  • Police/army are now violent. Here is what the average civilian thinks: Hey! They are supposed to protect us, not beat us! Let's kill those bast… that protect the corrupt.
  • The last step closed the loop as everyone became entrenched behind his perception of reality.

Sad, but this is humankind since the beginning of times. People have to get thru it with as less damage as we can.

I wrote a few weeks ago that our species deserve an extinction. I still think it for the best of this gorgeous planet. At the same time, being present at Rowe, I think also that the people I met there represent very well the intellectual awareness about the current situation and that they are the tiny spores to spread hope for a better future. The road will be exhausting and long, but optimism deserves its place.

JM

Thank you Chris for a fantastic article covering much more than the soundbites the media feeds the public and getting deeper into the "just a few bad apples" silliness.  I have been trying to stay out of the fray though I'm usually just a lurker and have great respect for Tom and OOG and others posting here, but I have been forced to respond.  
As an engineer, I am always looking at the statistical side of things in the real world and comparing it to the soundbites from the media to come to a more robust understanding for myself.  However, when it comes to this subject, statistics are a completely inappropriate lens with which to look at the facts.  The facts of the myriad of actual videos of police brutality and killings are not in question here or elsewhere, so we can all agree that the police do perpetrate these acts, completely without getting into the details, emotions, and opinions of why, etc the violence occurred.  For my point the simple fact that the violence occurred is all that is needed.  Statistically speaking, OOG is correct that we're talking about a very small number, but from my values and beliefs (which originate from many places, including our founding document and supreme law of the land) a SINGLE event is completely unacceptable without creating a break in the trust of our "civilized society" as outlined in said documents.  I often go back to these documents as they are eye-opening every time they're read.  Please read the following bullet points (3 of 27) that Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence as reasons for taking up arms against King George and see how they fit with our subject here:

For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us.

For protecting them, by a mock trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of these States.

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury.

For extra credit, read all 27 and see if any stick in your craw as being as true today as in 1776.

And from the US Constitution, which I'm sure I don't need to paste here because we all know it by heart, but a gentle reminder is always beneficial (bold italics mine):

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

From these I see a single event of being deprived of life without due process of law or perpetrators being protected by a mock trial (read "internal investigation clearing them of any wrongdoing") as breaking the trust and social contract for our "civilized society" based on the rule of law.  

Please don't take this as coming from a perspective of not respecting the difficult and sometimes dangerous job that our thin blue line does everyday, but by our supreme law and founding document, that job comes with a certain duty of care and responsibility.

David

While the race angle tends to get played up, it turns out I am equally horrified by the stories of excessive force and sometimes killings no matter the age or race – or petty criminal background! – of the person involved.
Sure if one is a known violent felon, multiple rapist, aggressive sort, then I would fully expect any and all resistance to be met with greater force, and promptly.

But the fact of the matter is that, at root, the poor and dispossessed, who tend to be minorities generally and blacks specifically in many cases, are being treated like walking ATM machines for municipalities and court systems too weak to raise money the old fashioned way – by raising taxes.

And Tom, this is an area that stokes my ‘justice fires’ and I have a hard time remaining emotionally detached. My personal experience is that even politely ‘talking back’ to an officer is an unwelcome moment, and I would never actively resist because I believe that, unlike the Norwegian drunk, I would get walloped and possibly hurt even if I was not a threat but simply resisting what I consider to be a violation of my rights as I understand them.

And I look at the dozens and dozens of cases I can pull up when I Google “officer shoots mentally ill,” compare those findings to the UK policing statistics and conclude that there is something in the training of at least some US officers that leads to these tragic outcomes.

I think of the cases coming out of Albuquerque and I conclude that there’s something just toxically wrong in that department. Ditto Baltimore, Chicago, and much of Southern CA.

I could go on, but something is wrong, that much is clear, and the DOJ report on Ferguson literally shocked me…I had no idea. If you have a strong will, you might read through the whole thing, but I’ll only reproduce some of the findings that stop short of where the use of force sections begin, because those are just very disturbing.

Just to be crystal clear, the writing between the "+++" signs is not mine, but from an article in The Atlantic.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ferguson's Conspiracy Against Black Citizens

Mar 5, 2015

This week, the Department of Justice concluded that there is no evidence to disprove Officer Wilson's claim that he feared for his life during the encounter. And the federal agency also presented context that explains why so many black residents assumed foul play and took to the streets in protest: For years, Ferguson's police force has meted out brutality, violated civil rights, and helped Ferguson officials to leech off the black community as shamelessly as would mafia bosses.

So far, a disproportionate amount of press attention has focused on racist emails circulated by Ferguson officials, causing two to be fired and one to be placed on leave. While the correspondence in question is deeply offensive and worthy of condemnation, it is nowhere close to the most objectionable transgression documented in the DOJ report, which ought to prompt multiple Ferguson officials to resign in disgrace and provoke condemnations from across the political spectrum. Nearly every page shocks the conscience.

Ferguson officials repeatedly behaved as if their priority is not improving public safety or protecting the rights of residents, but maximizing the revenue that flows into city coffers, sometimes going so far as to anticipate decreasing sales tax revenues and urging the police force to make up for the shortfall by ticketing more people. Often, those tickets for minor offenses then turned into arrest warrants.

[note:  Here’s the stat the really jumps out at me]

It's worth briefly pausing, amid this parade of official misconduct, ignorance of the law, and Constitutional violations to reflect on the fact that all of them are coming out of a municipality of just 21,000 residents. You can fit 41,000 at Wrigley Field. "Between July 1, 2010, and June 30, 2014," the report states, "the City of Ferguson issued approximately 90,000 citations and summonses for municipal violations."

Police sometimes complain that Ferguson residents are unwilling to call and report crimes or to cooperate as witnesses. There are surely occasions when this complaint is fully justified, but the behavior of the police has also alienated the community in totally understandable ways that relate very specifically to cooperating with law enforcement.

For instance:

... a woman called FPD to report a domestic disturbance. By the time the police arrived, the woman’s boyfriend had left. The police looked through the house and saw indications that the boyfriend lived there. When the woman told police that only she and her brother were listed on the home’s occupancy permit, the officer placed the woman under arrest for the permit violation and she was jailed. In another instance, after a woman called police to report a domestic disturbance and was given a summons for an occupancy permit violation, she said, according to the officer’s report, that she “hated the Ferguson Police Department and will never call again, even if she is being killed.”
Or consider this incident:
... a young African-American man was shot while walking on the road with three friends. The police department located and interviewed two of the friends about the shooting. After the interview, they arrested and jailed one of these cooperating witnesses, who was 19 years old, on an outstanding municipal warrant.
Ferguson residents have a right to capture video of on-duty police officers in public places. But Ferguson police regularly intimidate or retaliate against folks with cameras.

For example:

In June 2014, an African-American couple who had taken their children to play at the park allowed their small children to urinate in the bushes next to their parked car. An officer stopped them, threatened to cite them for allowing the children to “expose themselves,” and checked the father for warrants.

When the mother asked if the officer had to detain the father in front of the children, the officer turned to the father and said, “you’re going to jail because your wife keeps running her mouth.” The mother then began recording the officer on her cell phone. The officer became irate, declaring, “you don’t videotape me!”

As the officer drove away with the father in custody for “parental neglect,” the mother drove after them, continuing to record. The officer then pulled over and arrested her for traffic violations. When the father asked the officer to show mercy, he responded, “no more mercy, since she wanted to videotape,” and declared “nobody videotapes me.” The officer then took the phone, which the couple’s daughter was holding. After posting bond, the couple found that the video had been deleted.

After all the bad behavior reviewed so far, we still haven't even mentioned excessive force complaints. To no one's surprise, Ferguson police have a problem there too.

(More

+++++++++++++++

21,000 residents, and 90,000 citations over a four year period.  My head would explode if I was poor  and being given BS summonses all the time, especially if I thought it was because of my race.  

Then things spill over into riots and the news says its a race riot or about black people behaving badly, but I dunno…I really cannot conceive of what it would be like to have a hostile abusive police force that I feared constantly tagging me for big chunks of my meager pay…

If not rioting, what would anybody here suggest that the people of Ferguson, or NY, or Baltimore or anywhere else actually do?

What's the right way to be poor and get a system to change for the better?

 

Matt Taibbi argues in his most recent book that the (mis)behaviors by law enforcement chronicled in the media have actually been institutionalized by the court system in league with the privatization of the prison system.  Very disturbing, very informative, very bone-chilling, very blood-curdling read.  There but for the grace…go any of us without extra super-deep pockets.

Hi,
This has been an interesting and stressful thread of comments, and at times I have wanted to respond…to post, but Chris's most recent words prompted me to join…again…

First, I can not stress enough, if I were in a situation where the police had wronged me, and the department protected their officer(s) and nothing was done to correct the situation…I would probably never look at the police the same way again.  It would only take one incident, and I just would not have faith the system would be their to protect my rights. 

On the flip side, the violence…the looting…the crimes being committed in "reaction" to police brutality…if I were a store owner…if I were selling my produce, my products…and the looters (White or Black) came to enact "justice"?  I really don't know what would happen.  I can say I would not sit by while my live livelihood was destroyed.

Two comments, different sides of the coin I guess.  No easy answers.

Jason