So It's Back To First Principles (Part 2)

[flamecensor]

@kincses-zsolt

burn seven tons of wood in five stoves

I think it could take almost 8 days but, however many days and stoves, Greta Thunberg could be upset.

[flamecensor]

@sonjax6

Zaliponi’s or King’s rifle

Another long range shot was claimed, I think by ‘Steve Baker’, and his claim was based on ‘scope data’.

[flamecensor]

@roger-knight

source

https://superfly.co.nz/mp4/impact.mp4

And you’re the poster who joined this thread with faked audio, which I had to correct:

[phiphi-the-frenchie]

The shooting angle is not at all the same between these two photos.

[greg_n]

@roger-knight

In any case, the echoes tell the story. In that video, there are very strong echoes accompanying shots 4–8, which are absent from shots 1–3. Since Crooks could not have drastically changed his position in just two seconds, and the walls themselves are not moving, it is still very clear to me that shots 1–3 and shots 4–8 originated from two different positions.

Well, there had to be some reason for the 2.8 second gap between shots 3 and 4. If you watch the podium video, it becomes very clear to me. The shooting paused after shot 3, just as soon as Trump ducked down by only 1 foot. So, I think in crook’s prone position on the roof, he didn’t have a clear line of sight to Trump’s full body, only his head, and when he lost sight of Trump he probably came up onto his knees before resuming shooting with shot 4. I take it we don’t have any video evidence of whether he did that or not, but I think it makes a very good explanation for the 2.8 second gap between shots 3 & 4 and one of the reasons the echos for the first three shots sound a bit different than the other five shots. And I’ll restate the summary of my echo analysis of Source 4, just to make sure it’s clear:

• All 8 shots had an echo at 0.080 seconds
• An additional echo at 0.163 was seen for shots 4-8
• There was a lot of screaming during shots 1-3, just like on the TMZ video, making it a challenge to analyze

Even more convincing is Stewart’s audio track of shots 1–9. In this recording, the opposite is true: shots 1–3 feature very loud and distinctive echoes, most likely bouncing off the barn walls behind Stewart, whereas shots 4–8 have virtually no noticeable echoes.

Um, shots 4-7 can’t have any discernible echos because they are too close together and overlap. You can clearly see that on your Audacity screenshot.

The explanation seems straightforward: shots 1–3 likely came from a much lower position, specifically from AGR Building 6. As you know, the only visible muzzle flash caught on video comes from Vent 1 on AGR Building 6.

No. The flash on the video is a reflection on the glass, not a muzzle flash. We beat that one to death last year. I think you are the only person on the forum who thinks that is a muzzle flash.

I encourage you to listen to Stewart’s video slowed to 0.25× speed with headphones:

https://jumpshare.com/share/qKs6adFSptWr3j2x9cLr

You can clearly hear shots 1–3 coming from the left, while their strong echoes arrive from the right.

Okay. I listened to it with headphones dozens of times to make sure I had a good understanding of what I was hearing. You are correct that shots 1 and 2 have clear echos coming from the right, but you are wrong about shot 3. Stewert is doing quite a bit of moving during & after shot 3, so there is some masking of the echo due to the rustling sound of his movements, but the echo can be heard, and it’s very close to being centered and maybe slightly to the left. Why? Take a look at Stewert’s video and watch how much he is moving. He is turning and running toward the tree. Watch it at 0.25x speed, and you will see him turn 90 degrees between shots 2 and 3.

In contrast, shots 4–8 have no noticeable echoes at all.

As I mentioned previously, echos for shots 4-7 are unobservable. However, when I play the audio in Audacity at 0.1x speed, I can hear a faint echo at 0.238 second after the onset of shot 8, which is very close to the 0.242 echos of shots 1-3. Granted, it is quote low in amplitude, but the echo for shot 3 was also quite weak. Again, look at the video. By shot 4, Stewert is down on the ground. He is probably on his knees by the tree. That probably had some effect on the recording.

And shot 9 is heard from the right with its echo coming from the left. It all adds up.

The long-duration sounds of the supersonic cracks all sound pretty well-centered to me, but yes, the echo of shot 9 does sound slightly stronger on the left channel.

The fact that from the west side of the building you hear echoes from shots 4–8, while in Stewart’s video the echoes are linked to shots 1–3, makes it evident to me that there were two distinct firing locations for these eight shots.

Nope. After a deep dive into the audio, and using the video to assess recorder movement, I don’t see any compelling evidence to support two distinct firing locations. Sorry.

[kincses-zsolt]

@sonjax6

The Malis / Grimley video shows him sitting up 3 seconds before being shot, which is not consistent at all with the counter snipers’ or Zaliponi’s testimony.

We should add probabilities to each piece of information - and find consistency.

It is possible he really turned his head toward the western crowd. In this case the shotwound we’ve seen does not line up with the story they tell. So the myth of 10th deadly shot might be: give the emperor what belongs to.
I think Zaliponi fired the deadly shot, but after that hit the individual was able to raise his head. Most probably not understanding what’s happening, tried to look around. Then he finally collapsed.
I cannot state with confidence that it happened, but it would be a consistent story of subsequent events.

[greg_n]

@sonjax6

I’ve been sitting on a substack regarding the wounds to Crooks, the lack of a splatter zone/ lack of expected damage to his head / lack of expected blood, and also his final position.

Washington Times:
Dr. Goldschmidt conducted his autopsy of Crooks on July 14, the day after the shooting, and determined he died from “a high-velocity gunshot wound to the head with an entrance wound of the left upper lip.”

It’s unfortunate that the full autopsy wasn’t released so that we could know where the exit wound was.

Could the lack of head damage be due to the counter-sniper round entering Crook’s mouth, passing through soft tissue and exiting via the neck?

300 Win Mag in ballistic gel

[greg_n]

@kincses-zsolt

So the myth of 10th deadly shot might be: give the emperor what belongs to.
I think Zaliponi fired the deadly shot, but after that hit the individual was able to raise his head. Most probably not understanding what’s happening, tried to look around. Then he finally collapsed.

Looking at the Piper Grimley video, the 10th shot happens at the 33 second mark. Just then, we hear an exclamation from a man, like he just witnessed something a bit gruesome. Then the man all the way to the left raises his right hand in a “they got him” gesture.

Trump Video Original Unedited

The 9th shot (Zalaponi) hit crook’s rifle stock and perhaps fragged him with some plastic. So, now he’s wondering if he just got shot. If crooks had been raised up to get a better angle on Trump, he probably got down flat again. Then the 10th shot ended his day.

Isn’t that the more logical explanation?

We also see Zalaponi raise his left fist in the air just after the 10th shot. He then turns back toward the barns and points back toward the AGR complex - also indicating “you got him” to the counter sniper.

Zalaponi fist pump

[greg_n]

@sonjax6

Is there a prosecution going on related to the Butler, PA assassination attempt that we don’t know about, or is Kash Patel an idiot?

Make it make sense.

Well, there’s really no excuse for him to have screwed up like that, but since Butler is apparently no longer an active investigation and the Ryan Routh trial is on Patel’s mind, he probably thought Rep. Hunt was asking for info regarding to the second assassination attempt and responded accordingly.

But Rep. Hunt seemed satisfied with the response. He said “thank you” when he actually should have been quite puzzled!

[phiphi-the-frenchie]

When you quote me, try not to truncate my words or you risk distorting them! Here is below what I wrote:

@phiphi-the-frenchie

Stop your delusions, no one has tightened that tie or moved that banner, except maybe TOB who rubbed himself against it!

And you quoted that:

@phiphi-the-frenchie

no one has tightened that tie or moved that banner,

[flamecensor]

@sonjax6

Is there a prosecution going on related to the Butler, PA assassination attempt that we don’t know about

Helen Comperatore, in her interview with Dr. Drew 2 months ago, said she couldn’t answer some questions because legal processes were in progress.
Feldman Brothers also may have had some case for Copenhaver and Dutch.
I just thought all would be paid off, so the coverup could continue.
But, Mr. Hunt could have asked Patel, ‘what trial’?
Also, Hunt’s question about “Matthew Thomas”[sic] Crooks simply could be, ‘did TMC look like he was 5 feet 8 inches tall?’

[phiphi-the-frenchie]

@greg_n

I think you are the only person on the forum who thinks that is a muzzle flash.

And the guy is proud of it!

[kincses-zsolt]

@greg_n

It’s unfortunate that the full autopsy wasn’t released so that we could know where the exit wound was.

It is available. Unfortunatelly the search engine does not work on closed topics (like part 1). I’ll try to find it probably tomorrow. I think it was posted in november.

(Meanwhile I struggle with wave refraction problem. Despite it looks like easy, even Sommerfeld (former teacher of Heisenberg) was unable to deal corretly with the problem. Someone should tell me to stop working on.)

@greg_n

Then the man all the way to the left raises his right hand in a “they got him” gesture.

My experience says, do not assume that only one thing can happan at a time. I’m not convinced, it could be just coincidence. And from shooting angles, I strongly believe that the face shot belongs to Zalipony, while the fracturation of rifle stock belongs to King. Arterial bleeding allows him to raise his head for a couple of seconds after the 9th shot.

[kincses-zsolt]

@flamecensor

Helen Comperatore, in her interview with Dr. Drew 2 months ago, said she couldn’t answer some questions because legal processes were in progress.

Well, I’d like to see Cerey’s full autopsy report, mostly about the headshot direction.

@flamecensor

But, Mr. Hunt could have asked Patel, ‘what trial’?

Copenhaver & Dutch - perhaps.

@phiphi-the-frenchie

And the guy is proud of it!

Look at this:

Shooting Around a Corner - Training Tip from Springfield Armory

[roger-knight]

I have to be honest: I fundamentally disagree with all the points you raised.

I let it go last time because the TMZ video quality was too poor to make a solid case. But this time, the evidence speaks for itself — I won’t let it slide.

@greg_n

Um, shots 4-7 can’t have any discernible echos because they are too close together and overlap. You can clearly see that on your Audacity screenshot.

After analyzing the situation more closely, it is clear that Crooks is behind the roof shooting. The ridge acts like a barrier, catching the sound and allowing only the upper half (the hemisphere) of the shot’s noise to pass through. As a result, the sound carries off to the west side, and the echoes cannot be heard against the barn wall in the Steward video but clearly heard on the west side of the building.

Even when echoes overlap with subsequent shots, they should still be audible—but in this case, none can be heard. Compare shots 4–8 from Source 4: we both agreed that pronounced echoes are audible between those shots.

Steward’s video, however, lacks echoes comparable to those in shots 1–3 (in the same video). I produced recordings of shots 4–8 back-to-back (Source 4, then Steward)

https://jumpshare.com/share/TOr9PZP06tFp6fcev7HH

You can clearly see on the graph—and also hear when listening with headphones—that shots 4 to 8 in the west-side recording contain echoes, while those same shots lack echoes in other recordings. In contrast, for shots 1 to 3, the situation is reversed: on the west side there are no echoes (blocked by the building), whereas in Steward’s video the echoes are very pronounced, most likely reflecting off the farm’s wall.

https://jumpshare.com/share/qKs6adFSptWr3j2x9cLr

If anyone still insists Steward’s recording contains the same profound echoes on shot 4 - 8, they are trying to gaslight us. Trust your ears, not someone else’s words.

Conclusion: The evidence shows that shots were fired from two different locations, completely debunking the theory of a single “8-shot” lone shooter.

[greg_n]

@kincses-zsolt

@greg_n

It’s unfortunate that the full autopsy wasn’t released so that we could know where the exit wound was.

It is available. Unfortunatelly the search engine does not work on closed topics (like part 1). I’ll try to find it probably tomorrow. I think it was posted in november.

Please. I would like to see that. It’s too bad the citizen investigators don’t have a centralized place to upload files they want to share publicly. It would be great to have everything organized in one place. Brian set up a server last year, but it looks like he transitioned it to “read only” mode at some point. I can’t see any way to login and post anything new to it now.

(Meanwhile I struggle with wave refraction problem. Despite it looks like easy, even Sommerfeld (former teacher of Heisenberg) was unable to deal correctly with the problem. Someone should tell me to stop working on.)

Please stop working on it! I imagine there are better uses for your time, and I think digging into it further won’t actually help us here.

@greg_n

Then the man all the way to the left raises his right hand in a “they got him” gesture.

My experience says, do not assume that only one thing can happan at a time. I’m not convinced, it could be just coincidence. And from shooting angles, I strongly believe that the face shot belongs to Zalipony, while the fracturation of rifle stock belongs to King. Arterial bleeding allows him to raise his head for a couple of seconds after the 9th shot.

I understand what your theory is, but Zaliponi’s own words contradict it.

I believe what Zaliponi said. Don’t you?
https://x.com/JD_Cashless/status/1853818797808881713

Zaliponi seems very sure of what happened, unlike the testimony we heard from the two USSS counter snipers. He is a hero, for sure, and very calmly did what needed to be done that day.

Edit: I listened to Zaliponi’s interview a couple more times, and now I see that there is some uncertainty produced by his statements. “I knew I hit him. Wounded him. Mortally wounded him.” But then he goes on to say that he saw crooks rising back up, and just as he was getting ready to shoot him a second time, he saw the USSS counter sniper round take him out, and Zaliponi commented “I watched crooks go down hard.”

A couple of observations:

• If Zaliponi had shot crooks in the face with a 5.56 round, it sure seems to me that crooks would be down for good at that point
• At 0:38 in the video, the editor jumps to B roll, and then there are two jump cuts and then an illustrative graphic comes up. So, unfortunately, Zaliponi’s words have been significantly edited. Hopefully the editor just did that for clarity and didn’t screw up any of the sequence of events. But it’s possible that the editor re-reordered some of Zaliponi’s responses, unfortunately.

Here is a slow-motion, zoomed-in view of Shot 10. Does it look like some chunks of crooks flesh or blood arcing in the air behind him? Since the camera was in motion and it was the edge of the frame, it could be video artifacts. Hard to say for sure:

Shot 10

I think Shot 10 was the more dramatic of the two shots, and that’s why we heard the bystander exclaim “Ohhh!” and the other bystander put his right hand up in the air.

[roger-knight]

@greg_n

No. The flash on the video is a reflection on the glass, not a muzzle flash. We beat that one to death last year. I think you are the only person on the forum who thinks that is a muzzle flash.

Perhaps you are not fully up to date with the new findings. My claim is not that the shots came from the window; rather, it is based on first-hand bodycam video evidence showing the shot coming out of vent 1 obtained directly from the Butler Police official Dropbox account.

First hand proof can be downloaded here:

Download the Police Bodycam Footage
Official Dropbox Link

• Filename: 1302_202407131800_BWC2122104-0RATF.mp4
• File Size: 1.53 GB (1,653,382,504 bytes)
• SHA-256 Checksum:
  8ea10848e5295ae42b66abd0f58db106b99e94a042d47f311e84f50406799f82

To isolate the most relevant frames, you can use the following command:

.\ffmpeg.exe -ss [start time] -to [end time] -i "path\to\video.mp4" frame_%04d.png

Take a close look at the frames immediately before and after frame_190051.png and frame_190052.png.

When these images are rotated and panned, they can be compiled into a GIF that highlights a distinct flash.

To my knowledge, this is the only instance of such a flash captured on video. The evidence from this first hand video is the most compelling challenge to the single “8-shot” lone shooter theory because the shot is coming out of the AGR building 6. I’m sorry to say, but your arguments are falling apart.

[phiphi-the-frenchie]

@roger-knight

Conclusion: The evidence shows that shots were fired from two different locations, completely debunking the theory of a single “8-shot” lone shooter.

Words taken from the Gospel according to Saint Roger, Amen!

[phiphi-the-frenchie]

@roger-knight

I’m sorry to say, but your arguments are falling apart.

Your credibility is also falling apart, Roger, even more deeply!

[phiphi-the-frenchie]

Please let analyze TMX file (named like that by Greg but also known as " He’s got a gun! " ) The guy was in front of AGR 6 as indicated in this picture below:

There is a very short delay between Crack and Boom, around 20 ms.
The eight shots are very similar with echoes at around 130 ms and 170 ms after the Crack.
How do you explain that if the first three shots were from inside AGR 6 and the last five from outside?