I’ve listened to most of his books (though found them a bit boring after reading The Long Emergency - which I recommend). We also listen to his podcasts regularly. He shows us our vulnerablities so we can assess them.
Agreed - he shakes people’s cages and those that live in a cage- need it. I do find people are more resilient than he describes them and though his assessment of national urban"ology" seems correct, he, like Ruppert and others, fail to see the human factor of change. Typically, they do not see the good in themselves - so they don’t see it in others.
Kunstler is becoming repetitious. Actually, he has been for some time. And this nation has a tin ear for his important message(s), which is lamentable and why we are sleepwalking.
He does have a brutally blunt and colorful way of describing phenomena, however.
Share his views re the Chinese. The world seemed to think similar things about Japan in the 80’s as I recall. They hardly proved out to be a master race/supermen.
Not too many here stateside were paying attention to Mao’s Cultural Revolution when China collectively (pun intended) went off the deep end in the 60’s or Mao’s attempts to manufacture steel in back yard foundries going tits up. It wasn’t until China well post Mao post 60’s became capitalist that we began to look at it through any lens other than that of a Cold War enemy.
Wow, I guess the strong reaction to the name-calling (tea baggers, Cracker Culture, etc.) on the CM site shouldn’t be a surprise. One thing that is appealing about Chris and this site, in general, is that there is usually respect for opposing opinions or members of groups with views that oppose or challenge that of “mainstream-Martenson-crash-course” views.
Although the apparent prejudice against the Tea Party and southerners rubs me the wrong way, it does have a certain entertainment value that keeps me from tuning out completely. IMO it’s better than being totally PC and not even being able to express an opinion out of fear of offending someone.
I find the Tea Party debate a little puzzling since it is not really a party, although I am aware that there are many, many, regional Tea Party groups. From my observations (and I’ve attended a couple of the local So. Cal protests), it’s a bunch of people from many parties (Republican, Libertarian, Independent, Democratic, etc.) that are tired of the increasing financial mess we have created and continue to create at all levels of government, local to federal. Of course each person has his own personal gripes, Read the Bills, End the Fed, No Earmarks, End the Wars, Stop Obamacare, etc., but you can’t really generalize too much since it’s not a party and there is no platform. Most of the Tea people that I have talked to are better educated on the Constitution than your average citizen, and that will usually scare the hell out of any big-government/mainstream media following types. As far as racial bigots are concerned, I believe there probably are some, but no more than in any other cross section of society.
So call me a tea bagger if you like; I’ve been called worse. Just don’t steal from me and tell me it’s for the greater good of society. Theft is not a virtue, whether it’s done by gun point or by QE.
I’ve read The Long Emergency and benefitted from it. JHK’s comments and predictions here largely resonate with my own. But I must take what he says with more than a grain of salt because of the blindness and bias some of his comments born out of self-righteous condescension illustrate. Referring to whole groups of people (born agains and Tea Baggers) in a condescending manner indicating a personal conclusion that they are all hopeless is something we could us a lot less of now and in the long emergency. It’s a shame JHK hasn’t met any born agains and Tea Baggers who in his mind might have something to offer and be worth partnering with. There are plenty of buffoons in all groups, including religious groups, but also plenty of people with valuable perspectives, skills, knowledge, etc. For instance, during the “1000 dark years after the fall of Rome,” weren’t much of the knowledge, values, and skills that were worth keeping alive kept alive by small Christian communities? Looking into the coming darkness, I would be significantly uncomfortable being JHK’s neighbor (or anyone like him) out of anxiety I would one day end up on his “disposable” list.
I cannot find any ways to “relocalize” megapolises like NY (which runs from Portland, Maine to Richmond, VA) or large cities like Seattle (100 miles long and 30 miles wide), Atlanta, Dallas-Fort Worth, Houston, LA, Chicago, etc. . Even JHK is not talking about it. I don’t think, anybody is talking about it. And 50% of our population lives in mega cities.
Why is everybody avoiding the issue of large cities.
“Perhaps the best and broadest of them
was a most monstrous and mythical superstition of Adam Smith;
a theological theory that providence had so made the world that men
might be happy through their selfishness; or, in other words,
that God would overrule everything for good, if only men could
succeed in being sufficiently bad.
The intellectuals in this epoch taught definitely and dogmatically that if only men would
buy and sell freely, lend or borrow freely, sweat or sack freely,
and in practice, steal or swindle freely, humanity would be happy.
The Common Man soon found out how happy; in the Slums where they
left him and in the Slump to which they led him.” - G. K . Chesterton…
[quote=Damnthematrix]JHK is bagging the TP with equal measure as the other two.
Time to think differently.
Personally, I LOVE the way Kunstler rattles cages, if only it woke people out of their stupor.[/quote]
The problem is when you overtly offend people the way he does the message gets lost. While I do believe people need a firm slap upside the head, the political/religious commentary will turn many people away. I have several times thought about reading “The Long Emergency” and some of his other books, but the off-topic commentary and attacks on people just turns me off too much. I read his blog on occasion and enjoyed this interview and appreciate his time. It’s just I have to take JHK in small portions. It’s why I like CM, same basic message, no offending comments.
I agree better to express an option than not at all, but does insulting people ever help? It’s one thing to tell people their wrong and debate on the issues, but once you get to personal attacks and name calling there is not really a discussion anymore.
Notice especially how the Sunbelt born-again crowd are perhaps the staunchest defenders of suburbia -- and everything that goes with it, including car dependency and and huge volumes of oil imports from unreliable foreign nations. They conflate suburbia with the constitution and Jesus. And, really, their belief system is so incoherent and ridiculous that it must really frighten the educated folk of other nations who see how we carry on.
*clears throat* Ahem.
As a South Carolina resident, may I–who agree with so much you said, James–suggest that you don’t live in the Deep South so you’ve been misinformed? You obviously have us confused with someone else. SC “gets” peak oil. We are dismantling nuclear weapons and burning them for electricity (Oconee nuke plant and four others) . The first nuclear plant to get a license to be built in the last 30 years is being built here. Not that we are “embacing suburbia” - my neighbors just cleared some land for goats, and coworkers offered us some of their chickens. We are restarting our beehives in the spring, and the one of the first hydropower plants in the country was for public transportation in the state capitol (and it’s still prodicing power.) Oh, we poor uneducated folks! Of course, I am just an engineer, my mother and mother-in law are chemical engineers, my father-in-law was a rocket scientist. Nevermind. Just don’t be surprised when we boors who are clinging to our God, guns, and religion manage to love our neighbors and work together in communities. There are idiots in every part of the world, but you’ve been watching too many Dukes of Hazard reruns. The idea that, quote,
Dixieland is hopeless, what with their thrall to the born-agains and the misfortunes of their demographic (namely "Cracker Culture," which celebrates ignorance and violence).
is laughable to those who live here. Our "celebration" of the right to bear arms is rather like Mr. Miagi's katate: "only for defense" (but we can hunt for our dinner if we need to). The South has fertile land, a long growing season, adequate water, low population density, navigable rivers, and people who are not ashamed to work work their hands. I expect some ugliness to seep out of places like Charleston (lots of people on the government dime there), and it will be tough, but we'll eventually manage.
Heck, we’re smart enough to read The Long Emergency and nice enough to like you anyhow, even when you say uninformed things about us.
I own The Long Emergency; enjoyed reading it; and am in full agreement with most of JHK’s social commentary. He is obviously and intelligent and gifted man who understands the problem. His work is a real contribution to the discussion at hand and has opened lots of eyes. His work has had a real impact just when it is sorely needed.
Sadly, he diminishes the strength of his arguments and distracts from the discussion by indulging his contempt for some aspects of our culture and country. I find his comments about the South offensive, overly generalized, and inaccurate. His attacks on Christianity are unnecessary and don’t add anything to the discussion. In fact, they serve to alienate a portion of the population that he has more in common with than he may understand.
There are lots of people in this country who I wish wouldn’t act like such morons. I understand that this strata of people have always and will always exist. I am thankful that I have been blessed to be educated and raised in a fine home where I learned to say a little less than I think, and to not hold whole groups of people in contempt. Perhaps JHK should consider demonstrating his superior intellect by being smart enough to refrain from gratuitous profanity, name calling, and other sophomoric displays of arrogant contempt. That twang of self-righteous arrogance is unbecoming of a man of his intellectual talent, and speaks volumes about his character.
Too bad I didn’t spend the time it takes to write this post discussing the more thoughtful aspects of his points. That’s the price we pay for releasing ourselves from the constraints of civil discourse. Unfortunately, JHK will never lead anything or anyone because he has never learned self control and the basic rules of civility. He will be forever a bitter sidelined critic of what the rest of us are doing. Being smart (or right) just isn’t all that impressive anymore.
Not to sound like a boot licker, but Dr. M is a credit to himself and his family for the way he consciously avoids this kind of invective and controversy while actually DOING SOMETHING about the problem.
There are a lot of enthusiastic people supporting the Tea Party movement however there are a lot more who are also very skeptical about it (mainly about the people funding it) Check out the link below: http://permaculture.org.au/2010/10/29/toxic-brew/
It saddens me to read you say this, Poet, since I perceive you as someone who is not normally swayed by media propaganda. There are black Tea Party leaders, but they aren’t given their due by the press and/or are dismissed as “tokens.” Meanwhile, predominantly white conservative districts in the Deep South just elected two black Tea Party candidates. The Tea Party also brought us our first Indian-American female governor, Nikki Haley. Don’t forget Marco Rubio in Florida, or the first Latina governor in New Mexico (I forgot her name).
What I find ironic about these statements…and also JHK’s constant harping on the so-called racist “teabaggers,” is that where in the peak oil and prepper movements do you see anything from or for minorities for the most part? What well-known econobloggers are minorities…there aren’t even that many white women, much less women of color or black men? Who in this guest series on CM has not been a white, upper middle class male, including James Howard Kunstler?
And what pertinence does JHK or even Chris Martenson’s message have to do with minorities in the inner cities?
So I guess if you are a middle class white Christian Southerner who happens to associate mostly with whites due to your socio-economic status (i.e., a “teabagger”), you are a racist, but if you are an atheist/agnostic upper middle class white (male) from the north who mostly happens to associate with whites due to your socio-economic status, you are not a racist?
Let’s face it. The peak oil and prepper movements are by and large movements spawned and spurred on by white males, offering solutions for mainly established white upper middle class people who have something to lose.
The rest - the minorities and poor in the cities, young single people, and especially single mothers - are simply going to be stuck in urban hell. And the message is - for those well-do-to whites - to get the hell away from these sprawling urban centers (and the minorities) as quickly as you can. Then go and create your new small town paradise away from the unwashed masses. (Except in JHK’s small town paradise, it’s a walkable one.)
I’ve followed JHK for a long-time here and there, not closely, but he has inspired me in the past. His constant bigoted ranting about whites in the South and the “teabaggers” has turned me off recently, unfortunately. Yes, we get it. JHK doesn’t like poor white trash. He should just be upfront about it and say it that baldly.
Unfortunately, we need people to look beyond their elitist bubbles. This peak oil / sustainability problem is one that effects everyone, and I for one thing we’d all do better by reaching out to the so-called unwashed masses rather than insulting them.
And to JHK, who thinks he’s somehow better than the dumb white teabaggers, I have to ask him, what’s he done lately to help minorities or solve the problems in the inner cities? The inner cities would seem to be good places for some urban renewal where it would be easier to have a walkable structure than the suburbs, which were primarily created by “white flight.” For someone so angered by the so-called closed-minded ignorant Southerners, I don’t see him being a leader when it comes to social justice or reaching out to underserved minority communities.
In fact, I challenge everyone here to start thinking beyond the upper white middle class…or those few minorities such as Poet who apparently have the money and time to prep.
PS. I don’t mean to suggest by this post that CM or anyone here is actively racist but that it’s easy to forget that a lot of times, communities that are self-forming tend to be insular and selective by race. There simply isn’t a lot of effort in the prepper community yet to actively help minorities, especially the poor ones in the cities. So to suggest that the “teabaggers” are racist because they don’t hang out with a lot of black people is kind of silly when you look at the demographics of a site like this or JHK’s.
“Straight Talk” and Politics?
Congratulations Dr. M, your the last proponent of Peak Oil Theory that isn’t personally controversial. I think I will have to nominate you for the "Cap’n Sheeple Man of The Year Award for next year too.
Seriously, thank you for your objective approach and message…Jeff
I missed James when he came through Portsmouth New Hampshire on his book tour recently, just a couple blocks from my office. He did seem to pick up correctly one of his podcasts on the vibrancy of Portsmouth that apparently is so lacking in many other downtowns today. His trashing of the Maine tourist crap buildout is probably deserved also.
My take is James as a writer uses words in a different way and perhaps less literally than science oriented people like CM.
The general scenario outcomes he descibes above seem reasonable to expect though unpleasant.
Monbiot is not exactly an unbiased observer. It is a mantra of the far left that anyone with a contrary view is a lackey of nefarious big business. Tea baggers and astroturf are mere epithets intended to belittle the tea partiers, but in the wake of the recent elections it is apparent that they are the strongest grassroots movement of recent decades.
An odd thought just came to me… namely, that James Howard Kunstler is the “Sam Kinison” of the Peak Oil movement . Controversial, excessively abrasive, even abusive on occasion… but there’s still wisdom to be found there.
Even though like others I take issue with his trash-talking, I still think this Straight Talk segment was definitely worthwhile. I rather liked his input on China; sure they are playing it smart in lots of ways, but they have a lot of challenges to overcome and their future is far from certain.
Actually you have to take me out of the “money and time to prep” group. My first post here caused quite a ruckus (Erik T, Dr. Martenson, etc. all weighed in) because I hungered for things that could be done by the majority of people without the investment money, the land, the resources, or even membership dues, and felt so much of this site was geared towards members. (I’d post a link here, but I believe the blog entry from March no longer exists.)
I think some of the offerings since then (especially the “What Should I Do?” series by Dr. Martenson and the follow-ups by SagerXX and Farm Brown, etc.) have been very helpful for those of us with less means. A few of the practical food and water things, I can do. Other things, like getting my hands on physical gold or silver, I can’t afford. But it’s good to have a roadmap. (Hopefully shit won’t hit the fan for a few more years so I have time to prepare, because right now I’m the sole breadwinner for my family and we live in a one-bedroom apartment in suburbia.)
Personally, I never thought of PeakProsperity.com or anyone here as being racist at all. I feel this is a safe place for people of all religious or ethnic or even political backgrounds to be. This is probably the safest of all the prep communities - and I’ve been lurking around prep sites and chatrooms since the Y2K/Armageddon community days. Here, anyone can join, anyone can comment, and either the moderators are really good or people here just refrain from spouting off racist or religious supremacist ideology.
I could say that I would love to see posts from a minority, poor, urban perspective. However, as this is a community, we need to do it ourselves. We need to recruit and invite, not just make it safe.
Here’s an example: As a minority living in America, I’ve experienced the other end of racist and religious supremacy. So in a “shit hit the fan scenario” I’d like to be where there is a large plurality of races and beliefs. Southern California and the Pacific Northwest would be my preferred location and I wouldn’t want to be living in certain parts of this country (especially rural, Southern parts) when that time comes.
I’m sorry if I seem prejudiced, but I won’t believe you if you tell me people really won’t persecute me or my family for racial or religious reasons in a time of deep economic and social breakdown. If you’re part of the majority, it’s simply not a worry for you. If you’re part of the minority, it’s not just a worry, it may become a life or death decision and you simply can’t afford to rely on verbal assurances or faith in humanity. If we could rely on that, a lot of folks here wouldn’t have guns for self defense, right?
So right off the bat, it’s unlikely that I’ll be retreating with my family to a homestead and growing my own food. Instead, my focus will have to be on building resiliency in an urban/suburban environment where most of my fellow minorities reside, and working on building community and security in that kind of environment. I’m somewhat encouraged by Fernando “Ferfal” Aguirre’s writings. He emphasizes survival living in a city environment as social order breaks down. (He actually criticizes those who think they’ll survive on a remote farm - if you have crops and appear to be doing well then you likely have a stockpile of supplies or firearms to take, help is far away, you and your family can be ambushed and kept for days.)
But I don’t really talk about survival as a minority or survival in a suburban/urban environment because I don’t really feel that there are others in the same boat that I am. So the issue isn’t really brought up. I think you need a critical mass to develop before those topics and discussions can flow more easily.
JH Kuntsler has some interesting things to say and often says them well. Unfortunately, his message is tarnished by, shall we say, his lack of tolerance on certain issues.
This was brought home to me by some particularly offensive remarks he made about Palestinians in the course the IDF’s appalling Operation “Cast Lead” in Gaza two years ago.
Since then I have chosen to largely ignore him.
JHK grabs attention when he talks or writes with the language he uses. His main failing for me is that he talks too much in generalities (that some people don’t really like), these generalities address some of the stereo types and as an expat who has lived in a number of different countries, stereotypes do exist but the brush he uses to paint with is too broad. However, for me there can also be a failing in the audience to listen to the words and not the message. Let’s face it, style in political and corporate circles is everything, content is secondary, but the general population focuses on the style and words. For me, his message is as clear as CM, Stoneleigh etc etc
. Controversial, excessively abrasive, even abusive on occasion… but there’s still wisdom to be found there.