Straight Talk with James Howard Kunstler: "The World is Going to Get Rounder and Bigger Again"

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41

I’m fully impressed!!! I mean, compare these :-
Straight Talk With Mike Shedlock - Posted 23 days ago - 2545 reads - 27 posts

Straight Talk With Steve Keen - Posted 10 days ago - 1659 reads - 19 posts

Straight Talk With James Howard Kunstler - Posted 20 hours ago - 2147 reads - 40 posts

Someone is now going to pipe up and say - “… but quantity over quality?” Yeh, well politically correct got us into this mess!!!

Britinbe’s post above this, nails the issue perfectly.

I want my information as offensive as it need be for people to have a very good look in the mirror, visualize a leading culprit of this sh*t-storm, and act with urgency, without first passing blame onto others. After all, this thread is going to look like a quaint little children’s tea party, compared to what goes on outside your own front doors, sooner rather than later, while the real message here was missed with the act of bashing the messenger.

Politically Correct?

Here :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-JxA9Rvs8I

~ VF ~

42

 

Amen…From another gun toting, under educated ( me-MS, wife, PhD ) forty acres and a mule, ( 100a and a tractor ) debt free, self reliant lifestyle “cracker”.

43

There is a difference between being PC and bigoted?  He has every right to say things that are not PC, and if that was all he was doing, I doubt it would be causing this fuss.  If someone that supported the Arizona immigration law started ranting about all the “spics” or “wetbacks” that were ruining his state, would you call that being non-PC or would it be something else?  I would call it racist.  If you can’t see that JHK is doing something that is very similar, then your ideological blinders are on.
Even that being said I am glad he did this “Straight Talk”.  So far all the straight talks have been thought provoking.

44

It’s possible to create a sustainable community within a city. There is, for example, a small but growing urban farming movement.  For buildings that can support the load, a closed-loop farm can be put on roof-tops, as this one in Brooklyn, NY:  http://rooftopfarms.org/
There are benefits:  these farms are protected from everything but the weather, you get to live in a secure building, your gold dealer’s vaults are in walking distance, etc., and a city like New York will probably the last to crumble.  And you get to reach out to all kinds of people; you are not isolated (except for the Internet?).

45

Wow. I appreciate Kunstler.  I would not choose to use his language but that is his right.
I live in the NYC metro area and have a strong interest in urban preps. 

My take (and it may be wrong) is that many urban poor are all too familiar with the deprivations of no heat, no electricity and limited food that may come with peak oil and economic collapse.   I think they have taught me a thing or two about resilience. I have learned something about what is real cohesive community from  my friend who grew up in the impoverished inner ciy-they had to look out for each other in every sense of the word in a very dangerous area.  They always knew who their neighbors were and who they could count on.

I think one of the scary things about being in the city relates to the risks of overcrowding leading to mass violence; having lived in a time of  riots in the 70’s it is not something I look forward to seeing again.

I hope we do facilitate more discussion on urban preps.

Just a few thoughts worth about what you paid for them.

Denise

46

Can I just say how proud I am of this community?  Every generation has its H.L. Mencken, pushing the envelope of social commentary, often stretching and exaggerating things in order to get the point across, and this is how I view much of Jim Kunstler’s work.
What I’m proud of is that people here who were offended or felt unfairly targeted by his words explained themselves in a fully rational, calm, and logical manner.  That’s rare and it means we have something almost unheard of in the virtual world.

Yes, getting here took both time and steady moderating, but here we are, with a community that can be trusted to handle the bumps and vicissitudes calmly and with a hefty dose of constructiveness.  “I might not agree, but here’s why and here’s the impact and here’s another way for you to consider.”   

So thank you for participating, noticing, and helping to create the very safest, most constructive, helpful, and useful place on the web to discuss some of the most difficult material possible and work through this enormous transition and all that it entails.

47

Yup, every so often our collective tit gets caught in the ringer, but if we just unwind it and settle down, we can get back to doing the laundry.
Thanks for the interview.  I liked it and think you are a funny writer.  In league with MH and VF, two of my favorites.  Laughing

 

 

48

Goes,

Lets establish a few ideologies :-

See that??? what a soup!!!

Lots and lots of bigotted possibilities and offendable’s in there then???

I also wonder how many of those ideologies above would sustain without an input of oil???

I read recently that central London, on any given day, has 230+ different languages spoken within it. I wonder how many ideologies that covers?

The present globally succeeding ideology is plainly f***ing us, and I feel right with the world that Jim is offending people. May he continue many years beyond his 62, and offend many many more before he is done …

~ VF ~

49

Chris,
Oh yes, H.L.Mencken was a hoot wasn’t he?

Right up there for Kunstler to carry the torch further on : -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5Zg_Nb-3bA

My senses are telling me that the perpetuity of provocation needs greater involvement than the sharpened proding end of a bluntening stick …

To Wit …

Paul

 

50

Having lived in Southern California for many many years, I will agree with you on the diversity there. The Pacific Northwest, not so much. I lived in Seattle for a year after living in Los Angeles for a while, and I was completely struck by how “white” Seattle was. Sure, there is a large crop of Asians/East Asians living on the east side working for Microsoft, but very few blacks and even fewer hispanics. This may have changed since 2003 but I doubt by much. Part of the reason why I moved back to SoCal after a year in Seattle is that I missed authentic Mexican food. Try to find a real taco in Seattle - you can’t!

My fiance of many years ago was Asian and he grew up in an area of Michigan that was also fairly white and not particularly diverse. He got so used to be around white people that he told me that once he looked in his reflection in a shop window as he was passing by and was reminded (and surprised) that he was not white! His parents moved from Michigan to a very Chinese suburb of Los Angeles…I stayed there for sometime and would go grocery shopping where I was the minority and the only white person in the store. It was an interesting experience…though I felt out of place, I never felt hostility or alienation. Just curiosity.

His parents had been transplants from Taiwan. He grew in America and was “American.” He had no interest in living in an Asian enclave…but I also doubt he would have felt comfortable living in the South. However, I have to wonder how much of this “meme” of it not being friendly for minorities in the South is self-selective and based on stereotyping of the white people in the South. 

Having just moved to Texas I am once again struck by the number of white people - but I’ve not met anyone who is a frothing at the mouth bigot and certainly I’ve met people who are far more enlightened than the Texas stereotypes might suggest. My family (a northern family) was freaking out that I was moving to Texas. They thought I’d be living in redneck land. Well, maybe there are parts of Texas that are redneck land but Austin isn’t it.

I have to say honestly that my concern about staying in Los Angeles is that there has been so much stirred up to try to pit race against race lately that I’m not sure if I’d be safe there as a single white female. Part of the reason I get upset at the stereotyping of the “teabaggers” as racist is that I feel it just creates unnecessary racial animosity. It makes minorities suspicious and fearful of white people, when maybe they don’t need to be. I remember the riots in 92…I moved there right after. Blacks and Koreans were having a war. Then it was black gangs vs. hispanic gangs. The hispanic handyman who worked on my apartment building was shot in a drive-by in the street next to mine in the 90s…for no good reason other than that he was hispanic.

So what is the purpose of these constant news stories that the Tea Party is “racist”? When, if you look at the demographics of Jon Stewart’s Rally to Restore Sanity, Stewart’s rally was just as white if not more so? I have to wonder if someone is not purposefully trying to start riots and race wars, with the Tea Party people painted as the demons. Maybe that sounds too conspiracy, but in the least, I think wantonly stereotyping a group of people based on race and financial wherewithal is irresponsible. I.e., we should not be bigots and presume that blue collar whites are mindless, hateful morons. It serves no useful purpose, it creates unnecessary racial fears, and demonizes a large segment of America.

JHK has a decent-sized podium and should do better things with it, IMHO.

That said, I do hear what you are saying about wanting to live in a diverse area. While I do understand (though maybe I cannot completely)…it seems like there are self-fulfilling prophecies going on with race in this country with people self-segregating… Could you find harmony and friends with a group of white southerners? Probably, if you looked and were open. Would you feel as immediately comfortable with them as you might with people from your own socio-ethnic background? Probably not.

What’s the solution? I don’t know, but I’d like to start with the idea that people are generally well-meaning. Maybe that’s naive and idealistic of me, but I think the reverse, i.e., assuming people are hateful, is simply not productive. JHK is being divisive for no good reason than I suspect he’s angry and needs a scapegoat, and therefore must blame “crackers” for the fact that his utopian walkable society isn’t here yet. Hey, I want a walkable society too, but I see just as many suburbs up north as I do down south.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

51

Steph, Poet:
South Carolina’s population is half black, half white. At least in the region I live in, black or white does not seem to enter into our thought process. It’s just not there. Color-blind hiring is the rule around here: it’s all based on merit. I think it has a lot to do with the military tradition here: the armed forces were integrated long before the South was. Almost half of the city of Columbia IS Fort Jackson, and nearby Sumter has Shaw Air Force Base. The Marine’s Paris Island is off of Beaufort, SC. We have a huge retired military population, too.

There are still racists down here; I met one of my husband’s former clients and he warned me off the guy as he was a rabid racist. I think it’s significant that the man was from up north. I worked for ten years in NY City. In my experience there are many more racists in the northeast than the southeast. This is why I suggested JHK had been misinformed: sterotypes. My own daughter in law, who is black, will not come down here because she is afraid of dealing with “Southern racism.” The northern stuff is a lot worse.  

52

I don’t buy that it’s astroturf.  I think that’s just the progressive left at a discrediting attempt, but I don’t think that matters and even if it is being funded by Koch, does that matter?

What matters is the issues.  While I’m certain not everyone that says they are a Tea Partier would agree with everything in these six videos I think they are probably relatively representative: Small Government, Problem w/Elitism, Wealth Creation, Natural Law, Gun Rights, Immigration

I know my big issue and one that I hear from most of the Tea Party/conservative types I hang out with is loss of Individual freedom, out of control government spending, and outright lying about out current situation (energy, debt).  I identify more with the Ron Paul movement that the Tea Party but they share many of the same stances on issues facing us today.  What I’m really freaked out about is why is the Left not at least protesting violently on loss of freedom and the on-going wars?  It’s the fact that people fight over who pays for things rather than on the actions or issues that is really frustrating.

While I’m not sure I would want the government actually involved in the large infrastructure projects JHK & CM recommend since I thinik they would find someway to really screw it up, I would certainly feel a lot better if at least those issues were discussed.  Instead we have politicians trying to out do each other on who can promise more stuff (mostly non-productive) to get elected or stay in office.

 

 

53

[quote=Vanityfox451]
I want my information as offensive as it need be for people to have a very good look in the mirror, visualize a leading culprit of this sh*t-storm, and act with urgency, without first passing blame onto others. After all, this thread is going to look like a quaint little children’s tea party, compared to what goes on outside your own front doors, sooner rather than later, while the real message here was missed with the act of bashing the messenger.

 

[/quote]


VF,

It’s hard not to sense your deep frustration with the resistance to the messages of Peak Oil and status quo unsustainability, and the need that SOMETHING needs to be done.  But we should ask, does such offensiveness usually have the effect you describe?  From my experience with most people, they will take highly offensive remarks as an excuse to dismiss the messenger, presumably because it offers them an easy out: “Well he/she is a total ****, so they’re not worth listening to”.  As Chris just said, people responding rationally and calm in the face of that is rare.  Most get to put up their emotional barriers of indignation and stop listening because they’re able to rationalize it all down to the messenger being a prick.  Offer an easy path to avoid thinking about difficult subjects, and most will take it.  It’s not rational or right but that’s how many operate, and anyone who is looking to impart a difficult message should keep that in mind if they want to achieve their goal.  I wouldn’t dispute his right to be offensive (hey his guest-post his choice) if that’s what he really wants, I just think that he does so at the risk of it working counter to his other aims.  As long as he’s ok with that and doesn’t turn around to complain “the message is falling on deaf ears”, so be it. 

Now I do agree that offensive statements can be a means to increasing awareness and pushing the envelope, but I find that is more often the exception than the rule.  To pull it off properly requires a certain level of artistry and skill as well as knowing where and when it works best and how to use it.  It’s not about being PC, but rather about the right tool for the right job.  George Carlin was a true artist in that respect.  JHK… well, on occasion he manages it, but much more often misses the mark IMO.  Rather he usually sounds like he has the Sith Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars as his writing & speech coach.

“Good, good… your anger and contempt makes you powerful!  Harness your hatred and use it to strike down your enemies!  Something something ‘The Dark Side’… er I mean ‘Peak Oil’” Wink

As I said there’s still wisdom there, I just see him not reaching his full potential.

  • Nickbert
54

Nick,
Have you read The Party’s Over by Richard Heinberg? I read it over a number of days because I often fell asleep reading it. Richards great. I mean, go to the back of the book, pull the links and search the web and you’ll gather together lots and lots of facts. Jim Kunstler on the other hand, drew me into reading The Long Emergency in a few hours sitting, while gripping a part of my anatomy that kept shrinking deep within me, falsetto style!!!

Kunstler was just the ticket for me. If he didn’t work for you, GREAT!!! You’re different. GOOD!!! What a boring world if everyone were the same???

I get the message that Chris Martenson advocates in spades. The Six Stages Of Awareness is perfect. But sometimes, don’t you just wanna go up to the top of the mount with a bottle of “Jack” and scream your lungs out???

Is that out of control? Yes.

Can you justify everything? No.

From a private message I’ve just had, I’m in full agreement that Kunstler is no Hunter S Thompson, even if he’s a wanna be. Hunter blew his brains out a coupla years ago, so Kunstler’s doing way better than a corpse. Chris’s reference to kunstler being the H.L Mencken of our day is beautiful, on the expression of the exaggeration marker for our day and age.

Kunstler is giving lecture’s, getting interviews with Max Keiser, writing his blog and getting invited to write a Straight Talk post for cm.com. He’s still talking left/right paradigm and voted for Obama for Christs sake, but have an opinion about anything and a complete nobody starts writing about you as though they’re a professional critic???

I’d say from the links provided in this post alone is validation enough that what he is doing is working just perfectly. Am I doing something along the lines of Kunstler/Martenson? Yes. It is damned hard work. In two hours in front of an audience it is like a draining mental workout. If you’ve to waylay social critics on top of your game, doubley tiring. If these are the tools you possess, you do with them what you will …

I can rationalize that those that rationalize too much come over as a prick too Nick. I can ascribe to the idea that the general public is in a consensus trance as that of a drooling coma in regard to Peak Oil. Last Thursday, UK TV broadcast this almighty slap in the face on the financial crisis. Should the editor have put the theme tune to Thirty Something to soften the message for digestion I wonder?

How nice are we going to be playing this when your neighbour is robbing you at gunpoint?

Yes, I get you. Too much reality. Calm your message Paul, people will be switching off …

~ VF ~

55

It’s not about too much reality…it’s about too much hostility. There’s a huge difference.

PS Nickbert, LOL at the Emperor Palpatine reference. :slight_smile:

56

Steph,

If I read in the news tomorrow here in the UK that an organised march of 10 million Hostile American’s on Washington, took back their country from an incumbent Government, returning full control into their hands of their money supply, I needn’t bother filling my day teaching people, because they’ll finally be getting the Reality of the message in spades.

Mainstream News isn’t news. Comedy shows and comedians are supplying more researched value than mainstream journalism. What the F*** is that all about??? Why in the hell is Martenson and Kunstler becoming such revolutionaries to the cause of waking people up Steph. Are we writing here for amusement and entertainment, or are we trying to draw a majoritive consensus to a sleeping public …

I’m as twitchy as a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs, and if a hostile hurled half-a-house-brick metaphorical missile can have a dramatic effect at waking up caged grey matter, I’ve a wheel-barrow load, and would really appreciate the help - “DUCK!!!”

~ VF ~

57

I have been, still am and mostly likely will remain a huge fan of JHK.  I do not agree with all of his predictions but I find them hugely thought-provoking and helpful to me in formulating my own so that I can (hopefully) plan effectively. I will continue to follow him from the “agricultural backwater” of Georgia.
Having given praise . . .,  get off Dixieland! We have survived as a backwater for centuries and it seems like pretty much everywhere is going to become a backwater – at best.  Sure, there are plenty of idiots here in the South but there are plenty in Upstate New York too! I have my 40 acres and am looking for some good mules!

RLJ

58

What I find amusing about JHK is how he hates suburbs with such a passion.  I agree with a good part of what he says but I have a hard time taking him completely seriously when he so vehemently spews the anti-suburb venom.  I keep wondering if some dark event occurred at June and Ward Cleaver’s house during his formative boyhood years that evoked this such unrelenting loathing.  Otherwise, it’s great to see his contribution here.

59

 
The thing I find disappointing about the  “teabagger” comments etc., is that it added nothing beneficial or positive to his commentary. That kind of gratuitous vitriol is nothing but a cheap shot amidst what otherwise would have been a very worthwhile read. It tends to discredit his overall message, which is too bad. When we consider all of the input from the contributors in the “What Should I Do” series, the other guest posts, as well as Dr. Martenson’s input, we see these offensive comments stick out like a sore thumb. It seems out of place here at CM.com which is a tribute to this site. What’s unfortunate is that it’s totally unnecesary.

60

This is the only post on CM that I have ever been socially offended by.   Thanks to CM for going to great lengths to remove emotion and slurs while reporting the truth.  JHK has no place on this website until he can make his case without slamming the beliefs of others.