It was really JHK that provided me with my wakeup call. I read the Long Emergency back in 2006 I believe and talk about a sobering epiphany. So, even though I disagree with some of JHK’s opinions on some subjects, i would not stop listening to him just to escape hearing a few things I don’t like. He is spot on about many things and some of the most important of those things deal with our fallible human nature.
With regard to the Tea Party, I believe their marginalization has been engineered by the MSM and by both major parties. I have said it before; both parties are actually two heads to the same beast. They put on a good show arguing with each other and nipping at each others neck but the body seems to move in one direction. In any case, the Tea Partyn is a threat to the status quo and so are a threat to monied interests. It is pretty amazing how the message of the ‘TEA’ Party got crucified. All it ever meant was ‘Taxed Enough Already’ (TEA). At least that is what I understood.
Wow. Talk about a left field socialist/communist kook. Seriously, the if I were President answers confirm it. Granted some of Kunstler’s points I agree with, i.e. investigation of bank CEOs, however this piece is definitely a disappointment for what I’ve seen on CM so far…
AMDG
HCSKnight
[quote=Vanityfox451]
He’s still talking left/right paradigm and voted for Obama for Christs sake, but have an opinion about anything and a complete nobody starts writing about you as though they’re a professional critic??? [/quote]
I’m a complete nobody, huh? Or did you mean one of the other posters here? Well gee, thanks for that. I wasn’t aware that constructive criticism needs to come only from people who matter (Now I could swear I heard someone say something earlier about “attacking the messenger”…)
Yes, I get you. Too much reality. Calm your message Paul, people will be switching off ...Stop trying to twist my motives and words into something they're not. My post was not about political correctness or too much reality or making everyone the same. It is about dealing with the world as it is (not what we think it SHOULD be), and knowing what your true goals and priorities are and acting in harmony with those priorities. That kind of hostility may wake up or attract some, but how many more are unnecessarily turned away? I understand well the merits to an in-your-face approach, but there's much more to that approach than hostility. Judging just from the number of comments in this thread speaking out against said hostility, I'd say I have a case. Should people be able to stay level-headed enough to look past that to find the kernels of wisdom... why yes! But most don't. Oh well, the real world disappoints again, and so we have to work with what is and not what should be.
- Nickbert
(edited for grammar)
I absolutely hate suburbs too… LOATHE them! They make my skin creep, and they’re ugly beyond belief…
There. Had to get that off my chest!
Wow… some of you people as so thin skinned it’s hard to believe. How do you deal with REALITY? How will you cope WTSHTF? Get over it…
Ah, it takes all kinds, eh? Having lived two decades in small towns (~ 10,000) in rural areas and two others in suburbs of a large metropolitan area, I fail to see much difference. Eveything that arrived in either villages or burbs came by truck. Neither were sufficient in agriculture or energy. We had great neighbors in both places, decent houses and comfy back yards with gardens. The primary difference was that most folks in the burbs were commuters. When the day comes that commuting is impossible or impractical, most people will be better off in the burbs with a garden than in the concrete canyons of a city. Just my $0.02
ao,
Either Read or Watch Dmitry Orlov in his February 2009 lecture - 'Social Collapse Best Practices'. That should settle any doubts you might have over suburban housing by design, in that with there distance from anywhere, built with massive fossil fuel input in mind as there only means to opporate, they are going to successfully kill, directly and indirectly, many many people in the United States alone. With six out of every ten barrels of oil to run them imported every day, there will barely be enough resource's to feed the 311 million people of today, let alone support suburbanites intensely heavy transportation and heating allocation. There will be a mass exodus away from many of them over time. They are one of the severest of danger's, yet hidden in plain siight.
Without abundant fossil fuel, the Detroit of today may well become the reality of the America of tomorrow ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIgC5whSP8E
~ VF ~
[quote=nickbert]
Nickbert,
Yes, you and ninety-nine percent out of one hundred are complete nobody critics. A follower and not a leader. Isn’t this obvious? Go stand in front of a large audience and see what happens when talking to the animal known as the general public, and if you already have, you already have my meaning.
Beige blends. Colour however, the more vibrant, makes beige ever more beige. Offended? Of course you are. Write a blog. Set up a site dedicated to this sh*t storm, and see what ooze eminates out of the woodwork.
If offence gets people talking about you, then great!
If innoffensive gets people talking about you, then great!
‘Nobody’ critics, when massed together, form a collective mindset, and wallaaa, there’s your consensus. That consensus keeps Kunstler alive and challenging social boundaries. Kunstler is pure journalism at its dirtiest, built as an afront to your sensibilities to get you talking about real issue’s …
Manipulative? Yes. I’m doing the same with you in provoking a response. Are you replying to me with honesty? I hope so …
Here endeth the lesson …
~ VF ~
One point to take from this discussion is that many hold prejudices, some very severe. Most hide them right under the surface. Take away the rule of law and some will act upon them. Kunstler’s rants sound rather mild to me. Still he either misjudged this community, does not care or both. Either way let’s stop being offended by little stuff like this, there are far greater indignities heading our way to deal with. Nacci.
Personally, I love 'em. Everytime I pull up to my McMansion in my Hummer and see that beautiful green lawn with the sprinklers going full time and that nice long asphalt driveway, I think I’m coming home to heaven. Think I’ll take my muscle car out for a cruise to nowhere to pump some more carbon into the atmosphere for the tree huggers to whine about.
Way to go ao,
Here’s to emancipation!!!
~ VF ~
[quote=Vanityfox451]
ao,
Either Read or Watch Dmitry Orlov in his February 2009 lecture - 'Social Collapse Best Practices'. That should settle any doubts you might have over suburban housing by design, in that with there distance from anywhere, built with massive fossil fuel input in mind as there only means to opporate, they are going to successfully kill, directly and indirectly, many many people in the United States alone. With six out of every ten barrels of oil to run them imported every day, there will barely be enough resource's to feed the 311 million people of today, let alone support suburbanites intensely heavy transportation and heating allocation. There will be a mass exodus away from many of them over time. They are one of the severest of danger's, yet hidden in plain siight.
[/quote]
Already have. What amuses me about people like Orlov is that they grow up in a culture half a world away from ours yet feel qualified to make detailed commentary on it as if they were immersed in every aspect of it their entire lives. He makes some good points but he's mistaken about others. These overseas experts also seem to think America is this uniform society and culture. It's not. They also seem to forget the resilience and adaptability of humans and especially Americans. Those who came to America were those who were willing to step out of their comfort zone and leave their native land and risk everything for a new start. They're far more adaptable than most give them credit for. They're not going to just roll over and die just because oil supplies are shrinking. I like to think this fella embodies some of that "can do" attitude.
This isn’t fair nor necessarily true. You have no idea who is here posting under anonymous usernames, and what they have or have not done in terms of leading in their respective communities or niches. Don’t presume that other people here aren’t blogging or organizing or otherwise having impact in their fields.
And the truth of the matter is, JHK is not that well-known either. He’s known to a select group of people who are interested in peak oil, which is not a huge group of people right now considering the mainstream media won’t touch the subject. JHK is fringe. Alex Jones is better known than JHK is.
And JHK’s manner of presentation and inability to restrain his hostility towards a good number of Americans is an issue, precisely because he’s set himself up as the messenger on peak oil and the death of suburbia.
Unfortunately, because he’s determined to insult a good portion of the American populace, he’s doomed to mostly obscurity and only mild recognition amongst a fringe audience.
The peak oil message needs to get out, and it needs to be heard by heartland Americans. JHK is unfortunately a very poor messenger in this regard. Chris thankfully tempers his personal opinions and provides a site that is politically neutral and therefore can reach a larger number of people. JHK would do well to learn from Chris’s example. Not because he needs to become more “beige” (as you would say) but because the message is more important than his personal gripes.
You can also be quite lively without being insulting to half the country. Karl Denninger over at Market Ticker primarily vents his rage against the powers that be, not everyday Americans. Denninger doesn’t stereotype nor act in a bigoted manner either; he’s generally fair-minded. The worst sentiment you’ll hear from Karl is “wake up sheeple!” and an admonition for the Tea Party to get back to their fiscal roots. But that’s not the same thing as painting an entire socio-economic group as stupid “crackers.”
The upshot is, someone such as myself who used to get excited by JHK, will now not be buying his books nor giving him any sort of financial support, because I can’t support someone so bigoted. I also question his future projections because if he can be so completely cynical and blind about mostly good Americans, maybe he’s being a bit too pessimistic about our future too. And that’s the fallout from his poor attitude and hatred. He’s losing people with his vitriol.
I 100% agree. When one voices such narrow-minded and bigoted views, I must therefore question his ability to think clearly and come to unbiased solutions in other areas as well.
Richard
[quote=ao]
I sincerely hope you are right. All I can say of my own observations of my home country is that in many quarters there is still a feeling of Rule Britannia, the Empire and England’s green and pleasant land. I often feel that people confuse reality for historical nostalgia of times long gone and if its not reality it can quickly be ressurected if needed. I sincerely hope that the traits, the hunger, the drive that built Americia, the UK and many other great nations still exists in the collective fabric of these nations, we are going to need it!! But as I type this, I can’t help but think of some of the things Howe and Struass wrote about in The 4th Turning
You might be surprised how quickly some of these traits reemerge. Wasn’t that also discussed in Fourth Turning? At some point, the Hero archetype rises to the occasion, despite the influence of their Prophet counterarchetypes. Heroes - working together, replacing the Nomads in early adulthood to challenge the failures of the Prophets.
I just don’t think things are painful enough yet to start the wire brushing and acid testing of what will become the Hero archetype.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/pricey-commute-lifts-cost-of-cheap-houses-2010111
9-180zf.html
Pricey commute lifts cost of cheap houses
Andrew West TRANSPORT
November 20, 2010
HOMEBUYERS would be able to log onto a website listing the properties they are considering buying and automatically calculate the costs and time of commuting between home and work, shops and schools.
Under a system to be trialled in the United States - but also applicable to Australia, say its promoters - people in the property market would know if the cheaper price of a house on the suburban fringe was offset by higher travel
costs.
For what it is worth I think when he talks about the south and suburbia comments there are some truths about the south around where I live. As a resident of Arkansas all the towns are 20 miles away and sometimes more. In reading some of Chris’s points about high speed rail, I have often wondered how we could ever work out a rail system around Little Rock. It is incredible the traffic and driving from surburbia. A tremendous amount of peopIedrive more than 25 up 60 mile each way to work everyday. I was talking to a friend of mine that had lived and was going back to Germany. He said it is so different there. They walk everywhere. it is their culture. Same thing in England I have friend’s there also. They walk daily to the market for groceries. Here you have to drive 10, 15, 20 miles for a walmart or target or grocery store. When I traveled up north many years ago. You could not find a supermarket but there were mom and pops on every corner, not so here. That is what i think he was talking about.
I agree with most of you guys on the name calling being a bit harsh. But here in Arkansas we always been the brunt of jokes for most other states anyway. Does not matter. I get up every day and look myself in the mirror and repeat to myself:
I Renee am a child of god, am a person of integrity with a good attitude and specific goals. I have a high energy level, am enthusiastic and take pride in my appearance and what I do. I have a sense of humor, lots of faith, wisdom, and the vision empathy and courage to use my talents effectively. I have character and am knowledgeable. My convictions are strong and I have a healthly self-image, a passion fo what is right , and a solid hope for the future. (It gets me though the day)
In the end it does not matter what someone thinks about someone else. It all comes down to what do or did you do to make things better. To me the thing that matters the most is how we treat each other. Poet I am sorry to hear you say that you worry about the price you might pay for your ethinicity. I hope that you find those thoughts to be wrong.
One thing we do have down south is community. I was impressed with the TB group but felt that they were highjacked by the GOP myself and backed off because of that. I will say that it is disheartening to find out after all the years of being a true blue American. I must say that I am so disappointed in the truth that seems to be coming out all around us. We had been duped, lied to, and taken advantage of. Very sad indeed.
Most of us will survive and be the better for it.
[quote=Vanityfox451]
Nickbert,
Yes, you and ninety-nine percent out of one hundred are complete nobody critics. A follower and not a leader. Isn’t this obvious? Go stand in front of a large audience and see what happens when talking to the animal known as the general public, and if you already have, you already have my meaning. [/quote]
If you’re trying to rile me up or provoke a response with insults and mischaracterizations, don’t bother. Maybe it’s because I’ve taken to heart that line from the Steven Russel video (0:37) you posted earlier… “Don’t worry about it… he’s a d***!”
So you say any kind of attention is good attention? Hmm, well actually this explains a lot.
[quote]
‘Nobody’ critics, when massed together, form a collective mindset, and wallaaa, there’s your consensus. That consensus keeps Kunstler alive and challenging social boundaries. Kunstler is pure journalism at its dirtiest, built as an afront to your sensibilities to get you talking about real issue’s … [/quote]
So interesting you can so adamantly ascribe noble motives to JHK whom you happen to agree with, whereas someone you dislike like Glenn Beck who does the exact same things (exhibit a political bias, pushes to see the world reshaped as they think is best for their country, and are prone to offensiveness and cage-rattling) must be dangerous and have sinister motives. No one knows their true motives but themselves and the people they’re closest with. You see only what you wish to see, and yet are so quick to point out how the rest of us are blind.
“Check check… one two. Sound check… one two.” Just making sure you can hear me from atop that giant pedestal you put yourself up on…
Perhaps us little people wallowing in the mud are having trouble hearing you from all the way down here, because we hear no lesson. Maybe if you take a break from being arrogant and patronizing, we just might hear it…
- Nickbert
Correction… Steve Hughes, not Steven Russel.