While some might find his views on a lawless future off putting or disgusting, he’s right based on the human track record. What he was describing is EXACTLY what “ISIS” or a total breakdown in the rule of law looks like. ISIS, unchecked looks a lot like what Crapper posted. I’m pretty sure if any of us went to Libya, Iraq or other places where there’s a breakdown in the rule of law, if would fit Crapper’s description.
And we are beginning to see more and more civil unrest around the world. A recent ZeroHedge article says that in 2020 we can expect 40% of the world dealing with civil unrest. Now just imagine when we are all faced with a complete global economic collapse and governments being overthrown. It has the potential to get real ugly, real fast.
Sure, anyone can paint an end-times picture. The issue is - what’s the motivation behind doing so? And why do his “paintings” all have a certain vibe to them?
Perhaps those of us who have lived with specific personality types can spot people who have a strong secondary motivation for why they do things.
Or maybe it isn’t a secondary motivation. Maybe it is the entire reason for the post, and the ostensible subject and the entire follow-on discussion just provides plausible deniability.
In primitive societies, people who made a habit of pulling the group apart got kicked out. So - Mots - no house-burning. Exile. That’s what Rome did. They sent you off to the fringes of the Empire instead of burning your house. And in smaller groups, they just made you leave and not come back.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/exile-law
Why do ya’ll spend time replying to and discussing posts that are incendiary by design?
Rector
I respectfully withdraw my comment. Granny is right on in her comment above. I had forgotten about crapper’s misogynist language in his earlier posts. See sparky’s examples below.
Here’s a sampling of excerpted PP posts by Crapper. Unless things change, I think the potential opportunity for constructive dialogue with Crapper is extremely limited by his apparent obsession with promoting violence, denigrating women and girls, and insulting PP members while asserting his self-proclaimed superiority. [Note: I had some difficulty with the links to the specific comments. A bit clumsy, but hopefully these are sourced correctly.]
https://peakprosperity.com/these-are-the-good-old-days/#comment-129842
Comment #3 (comment-129842)
(Crapper’s dark parable of brothers Bill and Tom; a cautionary tale of male-victim divorce rape/rape, children of divorced mothers as jailbirds, sluts and suicide.)
https://peakprosperity.com/these-are-the-good-old-days/#comment-130348
Reply to #8 (comment-130348)
Excerpt: “…you’re too stupid to be protected from your own stupidity…I can only groan when you post such low IQ replies that I shake my head in disbelief…DON’T make public replies with reference to numbers or statistics when you’re too tragically stupid to know how stupid you are.”
https://peakprosperity.com/these-are-the-good-old-days/#comment-130403
Reply to #8 (comment-130403)
Excerpt: “…you couldn’t even comprehend a few simple sentences written in plain English. What does that say about your IQ? Although you didn’t claim to be the sharpest tool in the shed, you have actually proved you’re one of the bluntest. Ouch!”
https://peakprosperity.com/whats-possible/#comment-240006
Comment #2 (comment-240006)
Excerpt: “…women won’t give up their sexual freedoms or political power, men want to live like hogs, blacks want the fruits of whites and whites want the fruits of their forebears WITHOUT the “regeneration” mentioned above. Oh… and the Elites want to remain treacherous and keep stealing…90% [of the world’s population] will die, Die DIE!..But Crapper always likes to end on a positive note: secure your Bitcoin and gold and brush up on your training for violence…My counsel remains… be chipper and prepare for the end with popcorn and beer… it’ll be the greatest show on earth!”
https://peakprosperity.com/whats-possible/#comment-240691
Reply to #6 (comment-240691)
Excerpt: "…requires one to forsake the ideals and values of the ascent. For the white, middle class (a large portion of this website) it means embracing violence, racism, sexism and wielding murderously raw power (or seeking allegiance with those who do). " And, “…war bands. These are roaming bands of young men who were given no stake in the failing system and so have nothing to lose in a collapse. They thrive by murder, rape and pillage. They are warlords and heroes within their own tribe. They are the product of telling our boys from the age of four that “Girls are best at everything and boys are just shit!” [Sparky1 edit, bold added]…So joining a War Band will be a winning strategy for a multitude of disenfranchised men…”
https://peakprosperity.com/getting-real-about-green-energy/#comment-199729
Comment#2 (comment-199729)
Excerpt: “That’s why I studied Dark Ages, famines… and all things “Doom and Gloom!”. I personally went through the four stages of grief: (a) Whoah… we’re in serious poop (b) Hey, no one else is getting prepared (c) I’ll grab the best resources while the goings good and (d) get the beers and popcorn ready for the show… and laugh at the 90% dying in their own stupidity while Crapper and his Harem special friends and close mates set themselves up for the new warlords of the local fiefdom.”
And, "…Crapper doesn’t like to post without giving some good advice, so here it is: Look for a great survival property that would serve well in an “end of the world” scenario. Ensure that it’s in an area populated by people who racially resemble you but not the owner: if you’re white and live in USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc, then rent from someone Chinese. If you’re Hispanic, rent off a wealthy white person in South America. When the SHTF occurs, shoot the owners when they come to visit the property. Now it belongs to you! That’s the new rules for the Dark Age. And you’ll thank Crapper for getting you and your family a “Get out of Jail” card for free when the Four Horsemen ride into town. "
Many, many collapse stories predict a a devolution to lower (more ancient) ways of thinking and social organizations during a collapse. These are not new ways of doing things, but were the ancient norms of human organization in centuries and millennia past. [In Spiral Dynamics, these patterns of thinking and organizational structures are called “vMemes” or just “Memes”.]
One example: A feudal lord owned the land and the people who lived on it.
This devolution is found in collapse fiction (hundreds of stories) including JHK’s novels and his post here at PP a couple of years ago, and Orlov’s predictions for the US future based on the Russian experience, and Selco’s stories from Yugoslavia.
The most notable downward shift is social reorganization into gangs held together by charismatic or powerful leaders.
Some may be centered around a religious or moral teaching and the leader a charismatic and righteous person. The Law is given by both a document of rules (scripture/code-of-conduct/constitution) AND that leader’s particular implementation of those rules. [BLUE]
Others by raw power, with leadership determined by strength, political skill, and the ability to maintain a hierarchy that makes the group powerful and maintains his power. (See the “Rules for Rulers” video.) A strong leader will guide his tribe to conquest of resource rich neighbors, making his group wealthy and rewarding his most loyal keys-to-power. [ORANGE]
Others, the lowest, is a gang structure held by the brutality of the warlord. The leader is the most powerful male, who beats and rapes subordinates on a regular basis to maintain a climate of fear that is the mechanism of his grip on power. [RED] This system is not robust and is rarely seen outside prison and inner city gangs. BLUE and ORANGE are much more successful.
And indeed, one of the shocking and enraging (to me) aspects of our current world is discovering that the actual motivation of the oligarchy is far more primitive that the publicly espoused values.
- The equality of all peoples. [Unless the oligarchy can distribute wealth--and hence power-- to an in-group.]
- Respect for women. [Unless your young daughters can be used to honey-pot traps in a blackmail system or rented out to reward the king's loyal "keys to power" with pleasures.]
- The rule of law and justice. [Unless the oligarchy wants to have you killed for any reason or give insiders an advantage.]
- Humanitarian wars to protect the world from WMDs and "heartless dictators." [Which actually turn out to be for the purpose destroying competitors and stealing resources.]
- etc. etc.
Depends on what you imagine the “end” to look like. Crapper’s video (which, sorry Grandma, I thought was rather funny) posits some kind of energy/nuclear apocalypse. In that scenario, the rest of the world is not going to be faring so much better.
Similarly, I don’t see how the West - esp. the US - goes down economically without the rest of the world being affected at least for awhile. I think the people who will fare the best, whether in the US, the West more generally, the North, or anywhere in the world where standards of living are rising as increasing numbers of people leave the farm and head to the urban and industrial centers (the source of that wealth effect), will be those who stay on the farm, or return to it.
The post-decline world belongs to the journeymen and journeywomen.
nigel asked: Adam do you have a relative by the name of Dagny who runs a railroad?You mean Grandma? :)
Being on the receiving end of Crappers insults is not, and has not been a pleasant experience.
And for those of you who have no problem with the Crapper style of conversation, his content and message here is a quote for you.
”The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch and do nothing”. Albert Einstein
Appreciate your intervention Adam and the time you spent researching Sparky1.
AKGrannyWGrit
Regarding relocation, it’s difficult to move and adapt to a different culture or sub culture. I’ve made three big moves in my life and each time the amount of social isolation increases. In order to become part of a village you have to share experiences with them, so in my current location I’m not really considered a full local by the farming communities who have been here for generations, but because i stop to help people who have car break downs or flat tires, and because i help out in floods and fires I am accepted more than people who are just weekenders.I, too, have made multiple moves. In my experience it takes about a year in a new community just to figure out where the "landmines" are; it's a good time to do a whole lot of listening and little to no talking - esp. if that talking is to dispense advice or "wisdom." It takes about 7 years to get less mobile communities to begin to see you as someone who is at least thinking about staying around awhile. They'll have been watching to see how you conduct yourself on your place (are you really planting gardens and raising animals, or are you just a city kid living in the country as a lark?), and how much you're willing to listen when a local offers advice and perspective. Do you find ways to serve the community without trying to direct it? If all of that works out okay, you'll likely be allowed to - figuratively - stand in the doorway of the locals' social house while they sit around the wood stove chatting. But there's a reasonable chance your kids or grandkids will be sitting with them. I got introduced to this reality when I lived in a room rented in the farmhouse of an old NH farming couple for a year in college. That was in Franconia NH. The wife was from St. Johnsbury VT. She'd lived on the husband's family's farm for well over 40 years and raised 12 kids there, and was still - by her and her husband's accounts - still considered "from away." When she told me the story, her usually very quiet husband chuckled and quoted the old Yankee proverb: "Just 'cause yer cat has kittens in the oven don't make 'em biscuits." My wife and I didn't even have kittens in this oven. Any acceptance toward the locals' circle I consider graciousness. But I won't resent what isn't offered. Rather, I'll keep trying to be a good Woodchuck's Apprentice, learning from whomever will teach me how to survive and thrive in rural Vermont over the very long haul.
Crapper’s video (which, sorry Grandma, I thought was rather funny) posits some kind of energy/nuclear apocalypse.Yikes! As a newbie here I have not been exposed to Crapper's history. I do think the video amusing viewed in itself. I am very disturbed by the excerpts of his previous postings provided by Sparky1, and that must color how one watches his video. Not so funny seen in that context. Adam, Chris - it really is okay to "fire" some customers. As I've observed elsewhere, it's not necessary to "marry" whoever shows up. The flip side: some people should be actively discouraged from hanging around. I, too, have dealt with disturbing/disturbed personalities; in my case, in one of the intentional communities of which I was a part in my 20s. There is a time when tolerance is most definitely not a virtue; dangerous, even.
Quercus bicolor,
My recollection is that Crapper did write in his since-removed post (paraphrasing here) that boys become rapists (in a collapse situation) because starting at age 4 boys are taught that “girls are best at everything and boys are just shit.” The rest of AKGranny’s quote (“Become sexist…”) is accurate as I recall.
Interestingly, he made a very similar statement in a 2019 post, "They [boys/men] thrive by murder, rape and pillage. They are warlords and heroes within their own tribe. They are the product of telling our boys from the age of four that “Girls are best at everything and boys are just shit!” (See https://peakprosperity.com/whats-possible/#comment-240691 and my post #14 above.)
His statements came across to me as justifying and glorifying violent “payback” against women and girls for perceived, long-standing male victimization by females and society in general.
This will be my last post on the most recent Crapper kerfuffle.
Life is calling. 
To me its pretty clear that Crapper’s goal is to crush women underfoot. Who knows why this is - lifting his personal psychological rock and seeing what scuttled out from underneath it would probably be revealing, but who really wants to look that closely? Not me.
At the same time, if the world goes back to “a lower energy state” then the willingness to act violently will start to play a larger role. And women are statistically less prone to violence: 93% of federal prisoners are men, and of the violent group, those are mostly men as well. I’m guessing that’s biological. Testosterone. Or something.
So in such a hypothetical “brave new world” women might have to be armed, and willing to use weapons in order to preserve their independence and protect their family.
Regarding this hypothetical future, I’d prefer to have discussions about this important issue with people that don’t have Crapper’s hidden “subjugate all women” agenda.
I guess you are not familiar with adblock?
I am not counting on learning to farm and then managing a farm in my retirement years. I admire Chris’s vision but I have another plan that would encourage local neighborhoods to become more self aware and resilient when the bad recession (read Depression) lays us low. My neighborhood is 1,000 homes in a defined 3 square mile area. Lots are 1/2-1 acre. We are 3 miles from the center of a 200,000 population town. I don’t WANT to manage like the Cubans had to do after the Soviet Union collapsed, but I think it is possible. I know and like my neighbors and am known in the community. I see no advantage to moving to the country.
I would argue it is better to have friends and/or relatives with a farm than have your own. Kind of like a lake house, vacation home, or beach condo. We’ll all move in together and do the chores and provide necessary security if things fall drastically apart. Meanwhile, how can we make city living more ecologically sustainable? The answer is dramatically less energy use and a neighborhood localism. My sister lived on a farm until last summer when she got tired of the work and retired to the beach. Our former neighbors moved over the hill to a horse farm. If we are talking immediate industrial collapse with no ATM’s, no grocery stores, and no gas stations then even a Mormon storage of a years worth of food will be a dicey survival prospect. I was in Buenos Aires last year and despite some serious economic issues and money that is becoming worthless fast there are not running gun battles in the street and there are 15 million people there.
A slightly slower crash (sometimes called a declining standard of living) will permit some adjustments. Neighborhood localism will not take hold until unemployment climbs markedly. Banking failure is going to give us a new monetary system one fine day and promises of repayment and pensions will be re-evaluated. I will be poorer but I would rather rely on the people I know and stay put. A neighborhood organization can negotiate with the city powers that be (Police, Utilities, Sanitation) for essentials. Various infrastructure failures do not all have to occur at the same time. The grid won’t necessarily go down the day the Police walk off the job. I think neighborhood suburbs might be the most adaptable structure for managing decline.
Since the Renaissance and Industrial Revolution, collapse of civilization has been a bit different. For centuries, warlords and barbarians (Red) terrorized large populations (Purple). Blue “rules of civilization” appeared to stabilize life in past empires.
Those rules also institutionalized sexism and racism.
As Orange innovation changed the physical world, people began to question these institutionalized inequalities and first white men began to successfully challenge hereditary rulers and entrenched wealth to demand a fair share. Then, women and people of color made the same demands.
Contrary to liberal beliefs, nobody GIVES you your rights. You must stand up and take them. Unfortunately, the vast majority of people don’t have the capacity to stand up for themselves and a single person, even John Gault, is at the mercy of the gangs of thugs.
The me-to movement suggests that crapper is not wrong. Large numbers of women can’t even stand up to a corporate bully. They’re certainly going to be quick victims of gangs of armed thugs.
Granny is also right, in the last 40 years, smart, tough women have entered male dominated careers from engineering to the military and a most of us are also quite capable of physically defending ourselves. We know the difference between a foul mouth and inappropriate touch. Competent women are probably still only 10%, but quite frankly the majority of guys are wimps too. And, unlike many guys, few women see any reason to fight fair or maintain honor. We’re likely to be smaller, so we aren’t prone to initiate violence, but quite frankly if we think you are, we see no reason not to preempt the situation with a lethal first strike.
Sand_Puppy is right about the multiple responses to a crisis. There is an intrinsic polarity between those who feel that community can best supply resilience and those who propose self-reliance. The liberal gift of identity politics has created large numbers of people who expect others to take care of them and yet they have so tribalized that it’s hard to see functional communities forming in a crisis.
This group, with minor exceptions seems to understand the concept of creating intentional community around shared goals without demanding groupthink. Large cities won’t be safe because they can’t possibly feed themselves. The goal of finding more practical places to live makes a lot of sense.
Ultimately we’re going to need to be able to feed ourselves and defend ourselves from the gangs of thugs. This discussion makes me realize that it’s not just where. Perhaps even more importantly we need to be clear about what kinds of people want in our communities.
The University of the New World was an experimental university near Sion Switzerland in 1972. Besides having some brilliant minds like Immanuel Velekofsky and Jerzy Kosinski, the school was modeled after the New England Town Meeting form of governance. I was the parliamentarian…not because of any great ability, but I loved fairness and truth and really got off on running an honest meeting. Our community printed our own currency “les vache” …“cows” in English. Just a piece of paper with a pic of a cow on it. We convinced the local merchants to accept cows in exchange for goods and at the end of every month they could redeem their cows for Swiss francs. They wanted the business from the students enough to take a risk on our currency. Some power brokers didn’t like the direction that the community was taking and did a soft coup d’etat. The University folded and the local merchants were left with piles of paper with cow faces on them.
.
Barbera-
My reading of the history of Rome did not suggest they were racist. They were definitely snobby about people who weren’t Roman, but given how just about anyone could become a citizen (including, and especially, ex-slaves), and becoming a citizen got easier and easier as time passed, race wasn’t a thing for them. The dividing line was Roman/Not-Roman (slash barbarian), rather than division across some racial line.
That’s the conclusion drawn by historians I follow anyway.
Hi Everyone! I’ve been on PP for some time now reading and taking things in. I’ve read both books and am starting toward building resiliency.
The below link I believe tie into parts of this discussion in regards to comments and then the various thoughts on those comments, and then to why we may make some comments.
This is a look into the sociology and psychology of us as humans written in a fun and informative structure!
I don’t make any type of commission or anything from you reading this. It just does a great job of explaining what I typed above! Notes that it is a long read, but well worth it.
waitbutwhy.com/2019/08/story-intro.html
A friend loves to peruse the internet for good value homes and has taken a hankerin’ to retire near the entertainment Mecca of Harrison, Arkansas.
He finds this 7 acre farm with a wonderful, modern, 1300 sq foot home with barn, fences, pastures. $200,000. Damn. Wish I could find something like this in Rhode Island…
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3949-State-Hwy-206-Harrison-AR-72601/2082639714_zpid/