The Case for Small Scale Biofuels

Resilient Life Public Resilient Life
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41

OK, not sure if you read the article, these things were addressed. I use very little methanol and lye, (both of which I CAN make myself) and I grow veggi oil.

Sorry, this is simply false. True, industrially it is done chemically. People do this with a screw press in real life every day. Seriously.

Got it. We should just give up and roll over since everything is going to pot and we won’t have anything, must rely 100% on ourselves, and there is only one solution, which is…

I’m not going to get into a debate over provider gas. I can say that I have personally tried it, and summarily dismissed it. The fact that everyone else has with the availibily of liquid fuels should say something as well.
Have you actually tried any of this stuff, or is this all opionion based on what you have read over the net?
 BTW - Rudolph Diesel - his early designs were based on coal dust. They were later adapted to penut oil. Common misconception, propagated over the internet, that he designed his engine so the peanut farmer could produce his own fuel. That was an afterthought. 
 
Now, let me say this. You miss my point completely on this post. You are also making a lot of assumptions. For example, if petroleum is no longer available, neither is my job. Therefore, I move to the farm, no more commuting, my diesel useage drops to 10% what it is now. It’s all realative.
I wish you better luck on your provider gas than most of the rest of us. Please let us know how many miles you have clocked on it so far.
 

42

[quote=Ready]Got it. We should just give up and roll over since everything is going to pot and we won’t have anything, must rely 100% on ourselves, and there is only one solution, which is…
[/quote]
DUCKWEED!!!
C’mon Ready, keyboard cowboy-up already. Who needs the real world and all its trials and tribulations when we can generate so much self-esteem by pooh-poohing the work of others??? (Damn… I broke a nail on the “?” key)

43

Hey Ready - where do you get those conical bottomed cylinders, and what are they made of?  Just wondering as they look like they would make excellent clarifiers for my aquaponics system and I can’t find them here in the size I want. 

44

JAG,
Reading that back, it sounds a little snippy. I’m glad you got a laugh out of it, which was the intention.

Patrick,

These guys have just about every config you might want:

http://www.plastic-mart.com/class.php?cat=19&gclid=CPHZnpTx9qgCFUcKKgodQ1FEVA

but are not necessarily the best prices. If you tell me what size you are looking for, I’ll help you find the right one.

Cheers,

Keyboard Cowboy

 

Edit to add: Ace Roto Mold is the big manufactuerer here in the US. Perhaps you can search for a distributor of their products in CR?

45

If you can’t buy one you could try to make one like this guy: http://www.gardenendeavors.com/rack/conepage.html
Though this retrofit example probably doesn’t have enough diameter for good settling of solids.
Best…Jeff

46
OK, not sure if you read the article, these things were addressed. I use very little methanol and lye, (both of which I CAN make myself) and I grow veggi oil.
Just to clarify, You say grow soybeans and and extract oil from them using a screw press? So how much Oil do you yield (Bushel/Weight) so we can get some real world figures. From the article and some of the comments it appears to me that you where using recycled Oil, and that you had not done the actual extraction process yourself. Please provide details on the methods you use to harverst, remove the chaff, drying,  storage and extract the oil from the crop. That would much more useful information than the transesterication process. I am interested in what equipment you used to harvest the soybean from the field, since typically that requires very expensive AG hardware. Where did you aquire the screw press and how much did it cost? How much soybean can your screw press process per hour? 
Now, let me say this. You miss my point completely on this post. You are also making a lot of assumptions. For example, if petroleum is no longer available, neither is my job. Therefore, I move to the farm, no more commuting, my diesel useage drops to 10% what it is now. It's all realative
No, I did assume no fuel required for job commute. I was refering to getting the chemicals need to for transesterication which are typically purchased from a chemical supplier manufactured using industial processes and fossil fuels to get it delivered to you. . You didn not discuss in your article that you were producing your own Methanol and Lye.  If you are indeed producting your own Methanol and Lye, I would be very interested in the proceses you used to make them. Please provide the details. Understanding the processed required to DIY produce Lye and Methanol would extremely useful. Please discuss all of the equipment and what inputs you used to produce them, and what your yields are. How much can you make per batch? I am sorry, if I comming across negative, but its all too common to see people discuss DIY processes without providing the details on how to provide all the inputs without access to industrial production. They tend to discuss the easy parts only, and ignore they most difficult tasks required for true DIY project. if your going to discuss Biodiesel production. Lets have a complete understanding of the process from A-Z! I am sure everyone would be interest in a complete DIY system.
Sorry, this is simply false. True, industrially it is done chemically. People do this with a screw press in real life every day. Seriously.
I understand that. but I recall reading that screw extraction yields are very low, typically 10% to 16% (see the link I provided in my earlier) post. If you are able to provide much higher extraction rates with a screw press, I would indeed be very interested. My understanding is that with solvent extraction, the typical yeild is between 55% and 69% extraction, which is multple times more effective than screw extraction. Is this False? Thank You!    
47

Awesome!!  I’d seen another “how-to” on this somewhere else, but I couldn’t follow it all.  This is perfect!

48

I’ll give you another chance to read the post before I respond. Perhaps you can rephrase your questions (and tone would be nice too) once you understand what was written. I’ll get you started. In your opening sentence, you start by misquoting what I wrote. I never said I grow soy.
 

49
I'll give you another chance to read the post before I respond. Perhaps you can rephrase your questions (and tone would be nice too) once you understand what was written. I'll get you started. In your opening sentence, you start by misquoting what I wrote. I never said I grow soy.
  I'm sorry, I indeed in correctly misread. It's Canola. Can you please elaborate how you handled and processed Canola and how you pressed it to extract the oil and provide the yields you achieved.    
50

Why sure.
I use a John Deere row planter behind my Mahindra tractor to plant the canola seed which I originally purchased from a group at University of Kansas (similar geography to my farm) where they were testing canola for best oil production in our conditions. There’s a name for it, but I can’t think of it right now, KU-XXXXX something or other.

I irrigate the crop when necessary (not often) with the 3 acre lake I dug up the hill from the field. I put a 4" pipe thru the levvvy over to the top of the field with a valve on it. The pressure I get with all that water weight is quite a sight! The lake is about 25’ deep where the pipe is, and is about 50’ above the field.

I windrow the canola when it is ready to be harvested with an Allis Chamlers mower / conditioner being pulled by the Mahindra. The conditioning rollers are set loose to eliminate seed breakage.

I then let it dry in windrows unitl the average is 10% moisture. Usually 2 days to a week. I say average because the canola does not mature at the same time from the top to the bottom of the plant, so there is going to be a variation from top to bottom and row to row as to the actual oil content in each seed.

I then harvest with my AC All Crop 66 PTO Combine. This will clean the seed so well that it is ready to go directly back into the planter or press without further processing. Again, this is pulled and powered by the Mahindra.

I then let the seed dry a bit more using air and sun - passively.

I then use the PTO off my Kioti tractor to drive my screw press. The way to get a good oil delivery from a screw press is as follows:

Start out slow with the jaws wide open. This doesn’t press so mush as start to crack the seeds open and get a good slush of seed, oil, and husk going. Then, once it’s really well lubricated up from the oil, I slowly start to crank it down until I get good oil with no husk. At this point I can go one of 2 directions.

1 - trying to keep oil in the seedcake for animal feed - just speed up the tractor and run it.

2 - trying to get max oil and dry cake - close it down more, keep speed low, measure temps on the output oil and don’t let it get too hot. 160* F is too hot.

#1 will give you faster production and better feed. #2 will give you more oil.

Everything you just read is powered by a diesel engine.

I’ve got pics and videos of all this stuff, I just don’t have them right here. JAG and others have seen the pics, and Aaron Moyer has seen it in person, so hopefully we can get past this sticking point that I am not really doing this and don’t have a clue. I’ve got well over 100,000 miles on grease under my belt. I may not know crap about gold, inflation, or derivitives, but this is something I do know.

Next you will probably have concerns with the amount of farm gear that is needed. Again, I would ask you to read the post in the spirit in which it was intended. That is:

People who are farmers already have this gear

People who are just starting out, the target audience for this post, will not. That is why I focused on WVO and the process rather than the farming. You notice Robbie didn’t ask how to grow or harvest a crop - he already does all that.

People reading this are more likely to want to do BioD than SVO, since it does not require kits to be installed into the vehicle. This is not what I primarily do anymore, I use predominantly SVO. The post was written the way it was for the intended audience.

I will also say that you and I are coming from a very divergent belief set. Apparently, you think that at some point in the near future, oil and natural gas will be unobtainable, and we will be required to grow 100% of what is needed to sustain our families. I disagree with this at a core level. That being said, you can take what you like from this article, if anything, and fit it to your belief system. I do not think either of our belief systems are incompatable with this post. If you read the responses, you will see Lye can be made via hardwood ash (I just so happen to heat with wood in an outdoor furnace) and I mention that Ethanol can be produced in small quanitities as a replacment for Methanol for use in BioD within the post. I also mention to Poet that 2 - 3 acres does not justify the farming equipment, and he should partner with someone who already has it, or go the WVO route.

I leave about this time every Friday to head to the farm, and I don’t do much internet stuff while there, so this will be my last post for a few days. I hope I have put some of your concerns to bed. If not, we’ll pick up next week.

51

Ready is right, gettin’ the seed and gettin’ it clean is the easy part.  Storing it is slightly dicey for me if its as small as rapeseed,i’l guess .8-1.4mm seed size. Finches are our biggest problem they’ll clean us out in our area. combining cleans’em, ie. no need to cut and windrow, just combine,then bale hay stem/straw/etc. and plant next crop.(graze katahdin sheep,no dairy as the high oil makes the milk/cheese/butter taste odd)I get the sense folks are pickin’ on Ready, usually these are people who’ve never sweat for aliving.
OBTW, I’ll grow and combine on yield share anyone who is serious about BioD in our area. Southcentral VA.
 
Robie, a poor typist and tired of picky folk

52

Here is alink to a sales pitch for screw presses with approx.yields of heated versus non heated.http://croplandbiodiesel.com/biodiesel-process.html
Robie(a farmer with sore fingers and bee stings on his arm and back, robbed a hive this eve.)

53

Just a quick FWIW - I was reading this from my phone in the airport heading OCONUS, and wanted to let the readers know that Ready has got a rock-solid grasp on the future. I’ve met a lot of “survivalists”, seen some hobby farms and met people who claim to be preppers - but Rog really gets it. I’ve rode in his rig using Biofuels he stilled himself, and see his efforts around the farm. He’s the type of dude who set practical goals, took decisive action, and has tangible, credible results.

Without trying to sound lame, Ready has the macroscale understanding of how PO and the Economic turmoil will effect the population, and he’s set himself up to cleanly side-step it. I’d back anything he said 100%. He knows what he’s talking about > anyone I’ve ever met. His setup is exactly what I’d emulate if I had the resources and time.

Cheers,

Aaron
(Deployed Monday - UFN, I’ll try and keep in touch here as much as I can. Good luck and take care all)

54

[quote=Alpha Mike]Aaron
(Deployed Monday - UFN, I’ll try and keep in touch here as much as I can. Good luck and take care all)
[/quote]
Best of luck to you Aaron, and your people.
Travlin 

55

[quote=Alpha Mike](Deployed Monday - UFN, I’ll try and keep in touch here as much as I can. Good luck and take care all)
[/quote]
Stay safe, and may your deployment be as trouble-free as possible.

  • Nick
56

Awesome, i love the thread.What I want to ask is:

  1. I assume you plough 1st, with discs? with something else? Do you use a subsoil ripper? Do you keyline?
  2. Do you put fertilizer in? Map / Dap, potassium, nitrogen, sulpher and so on?
  3. Do you harrow the pasture once planted. (i am strictly a pto seed spreader amatuer farmer)
  4. Where can i get one of those awesome pto presses (in australia).
  5. What is your soil like, acid? Clay, loam, sandy, volcanic, etc.
  6. Have you any thoughts about olive oil, (i planted an orchard with the same idea as you but don’t expect returns for another 4 years or so, as olives take seven years to start producing)?
  7. Are you aware they recommend using canola as a replacement for chain and bar oil (chainsaw)?
  8. What is your svo modifications, pre-heated tanks, fuel lines, or something else?
  9. Can i get all the gory details of how to go from a field of grass to canola oil in a drum?
57

In a low-energy future, oilseed crops may be very dear, and annuals (such as rapeseed) may not be appropriate.
We are planting blight-resistant American Chestnuts for use as an oilseed crop. Downside is that they are not suitable to mechanized harvest, but that’s sort of an upside, too, no? In a future with more human labour and less mechanical energy, it seems a good idea to have an oil crop that you pick up off the ground.

I’m dubious about the seedcake from rapeseed being useful for animal feed. Must mustard-family seeds are not, at least not without further processing to remove bitter alkaloids.

On the other hand, chestnut oilcake is a delightful high-protein substance like marzipan that can be used in human food, much like other nut butters. The trees live for a couple hundred years and produce a wonderful hardwood that can be used for fine furniture, tool handles, and other hardwood uses.

First crop may not be for as many as a dozen years, however, self-grafts are claimed to accelerate that to as little as six years. We’ll see!

I’m hoping our supply of restaurant waste oil will last until our first chestnut crop.

:::: http://www.EcoReality.org ::::

58

[quote=jturbo68]I prefer Cannola by far as it seemes to gel at a lower temerature during the winter ( Down in the low to mid 20s F).[/quote]I agree that soy gels at a higher temp – +2C or +3C or so, in my experience.
But a great way to burn B100 all winter is to not wash out or distill out the methanol, if your WVO water content is low enough so you don’t need to wash a bunch of soap out of it. My B100 from four different restaurants seems to be good to at least -10C (14F) when I leave the methanol in.
(Of course, if you need to wash to get soap out, you can always add back in a few percent methanol to improve the cold weather performance. That’s basically what winter diesel treatment is, anyway.)

59

[quote=Ready]Testing the water on feedstock collection should be a first step.[/quote]Do you have a quick-n-simple way?
I picked up an old microwave for free from Craig’s List. I put exactly 100 grams of oil in there, and nuke the snot out of it, then weight it again to get the percentage of water. (I get a good idea of how good it is by how much it crackles while in the microwave.) If it’s more than a percent or two of water, I de-water before brewing, but if it’s over two percent, I grudgingly de-water and then never go back to that restaurant again.

60

[quote=RNcarl]Glycerin disposal required methanol recovery for safety…[/quote]If you have some storage available, I’ve found that the methanol “goes away” with time. Certainly, leaving a loosely-capped black barrel of crude glycerol in the sun for a week or two gets rid of it.
I’m interested in what creative things people do with the glycerol. It takes a lot of effort to clean it up to even soap grade, let alone food grade.
I’ve mixed it with sawdust and burned it in a woodstove, but I’ve been warned that I’m making toxic acrolein in the process. It also seems to create a lot more chimney gunk than firewood.
I’ve mixed it with water, and sprayed it on our dusty farm roads. Works okay for that, but eventually produces a gummy coating on all your vehicles and equipment.
When using KOH, I’ve composted it. But I’m concerned about build-up of sodium if using NaOH.
Any other ideas? It seems like it should be a valuable resource!