Duly noted.The difference is he didn't really care if he offended anybody, he felt a sense of entitlement to interject his world view and inflict it onto people who who have heard it all before and have no interest in it (I notice he hasn't been back). It's because a majority or a healthy minority of most populations in the world have these relatively baseless beliefs that that kind of appeal to tradition is tolerated, and in some cases given privilege (see church of england bishops given seats in the upper house of parliament in Britain (house of lords) why does religion need to have a say? Why wouldn't believing in alien abduction have a seat at the legislative table? It's just as believable and with more evidence!)
.I reserve the right to be offended.
I have to admit that I used to get very annoyed at religious groups accosting me for money at airports and on sidewalks. I was likewise quite putout with the folks who would knock on my door to take up my time trying to convert me. Over time I came to see that, for me, allowing these encounters to affect my emotions was a waste of my own time and energy. It was better to just let go and move on. I also came to see that they were not intending to upset me. When I have these encounters now I am actually often amused.
In terms of special privilege my thoughts are similar to yours. I do not believe that organized religious groups should have special social, legislative or economic positions. Who qualifies for tax exempt status is a recurring issue here.
Tolerance is a different matter. We are all on this planet together. To survive we need to find ways to respect our differences and to safeguard each persons' right to speak their mind. Even when our views of the world are very different we can still have civil, adult, conversations without having to change or feel threatened by each other.
I respect your right to be offended. I did not intend from my comment to imply that you were wrong to have such a position.
I thank you for your reply to my comments. I look forward to future conversations.
JT
Listening to this podcast I was thinking about how Liebig's Law of the Minimum translates into the discussion on finding happiness…
A rough translation would be:
"A life well-lived is defined not by the amount of happiness found during the most abundant time, but rather by the period of time where happiness is the most scarce."
Interesting discussion
quote=denc I'm not surprised by this discussion really, as the pull toward peak prosperity and the deep resonance with Chris's and his team's work has been "intuitive" and "instinctual" as much as it has been intellectual. I suspect that there are many in the pp community that will be pleased to hear you step into this line of discussion.
The headlines and the madness of the world today are not the problem, they are the symptoms.…symptoms of a largely misdirected and misguided sense of self within much (most) of the earth's population.
(…)
[/quote]
There are so many possible comments that I should/could respond to, but I'll start here with the parts in bold above.
I have always known that part of the resonance of the material at Peak Prosperity is due to the fact that it is deep and multi-dimensionsal. For example, Adam and I walk the talk, we practice what we preach. Our personal steps towards emotional, financial and physical resilience align with our words.
Without that 'depth' the material would fall flat. People would (rightly) conclude on some level that our message was not actually important.
Similarly, our material resonates because it sprang from a source far deeper than a desire for fame, money, or ego gratification. It came originally from my opinion, or belief, that we humans are facing an existential crisis more than anything else. What else would you call 7.2 billion people who plan to go to 9 billion while eating oil that is disappearing?
I started by revealing the utter insanity of tying everything to an exponential money system because that's a relatively safe place to begin the conversation that dodges people's political, social, and/or religious affiliations.
But the underlying truth is that the money system merely is a reflection of our internal belief systems, not the other way around. So there is something baked into our current condition that is hurtling us towards the destruction and/or over consumption of the very things that not only support our physical existence, but are sublime and beautiful.
And that right there means we have an existential problem (hopefully not a predicament) on our hands. Nearly everything we see around us we might term problems are really just symptoms of our profound disconnect from each other and from life itself.
I am agnostic as to whether people confront that through logic, religion, or any flavor of spirituality. I have my own sets of beliefs around spirituality born of my own direct experiences and learnings, and they work for me. Also they are changing and developing as I learn more.
But however anyone wants to begin to dig deep and address the profound disconnect that our culture asks us to live into, unquestioningly and completely, is exactly how they should approach the matter. There are many paths, and there are many different types of people.
I am wired up with a very strong sense of intuition and that mainly comes through my body, or 'gut' as the saying goes, but I think my ability to detect and sense things I cannot fully articulate lies mostly in my heart.
At any rate, my current belief is that the predicaments we face cannot be met through any combination of new policies, better technologies, or clever investments alone…they will require that our most fundamental systems of beliefs be reexamined and then aligned with the reality of living in harmony with the life-supporting systems on this planet.
In closing, this is all very new territory for me to be openly talking about so please excuse any crude or undeveloped ideas. Also, as I talk about and process these ideas further they will be developing, improving and shifting.
perhaps the one element/dimension left out of this (and most talks/discussions) is literally a blind spot to most … (for it requires taking a 3rd person perceptive on out 1st person)… The Myth of The Given …(where we falesly assume that others "see" the world as we "See" it)
Development seemingly unfolds in particular waves/stages in various Lines of Development (Eg Cognitive, moral, psycho-sexual, interpersonal, emotional, etc), the sum total giving perhaps a psych-graph for each individual (e.g. a Nazi doctor…could be high in cognitive…but low in moral). The Salient point is that those at lower levels of development… Literally have no access to those at higher levels (Think of the smartest 10 year old on planet earth… there is still much Over Her Head (Robert Kegan's Classic book
http://www.amazon.com/In-Over-Our-Heads-Demands/dp/0674445880)…I've seen the Spiral Dymanics chart on previous post… please give it a look …
http://eric-blue.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/spiral_dynamics_model.jpg
see how it resonates with you
"Things are getting better and better, worse and worse, Faster and faster"… Complexity/Evolution (in the deepest sense… cosmological, biological, cultural, consciousness) seems to be build into the fabric of the Kosmos. With so much complexity to "hold" we need better maps. I find the Integral Map (literally a theory of Everything) to be the best available map. For at its basis it claims there are at a minimum Four irreducible aspects of of Reality (The Inside/outside of the Individual/Collective) that tetra-evolve… please take a look at this PDF/Chart… would love to see some conversations with Integral though leaders (e.g. Terry Patton, Jeff Seltzman, Steve McIntosh,etc…)Chris I saw you are involved in a tele-conference with many of these people in January… great cast of people (surprised i didn't see it on PP.com)
https://www.integrallife.com/integral-post/overview-integral-theory
http://www.culturalevolution.org
http://www.dailyevolver.com
http://beyondawakeningseries.com/blog/
http://www.terrypatten.com
Although the subject of this discussion is far from new territory for myself, keeping the framework of this subject centered on the three E's (or should it be "removing the framework completely"?) may help provide me with the prospect of lying on my deathbed and not saying "Oops, I think I got it all wrong…". We come in naked, we go out naked…I'm liking the 4th E- Existence. Wishing us all "spiritual" prosperity. Aloha, Steve.
If I want to give others the ability to change themselves and myself that right, I might not want to perceive them or myself to sharply.
So that when the inevitable time comes and I intend to change my beliefs or to even look at new information with an open mind, then those perceptual challenges need to be within acceptable levels my sneakers of change can activate.
It seems to me that the western mind is in the midst of a discombobulating paradigm shift, a philosophical revolution.
These things are never easy.
As for the religiously earnest who come knocking at my door, why I have always enthusiastically welcomed them in. Perhaps they did not take the sign on my door seriously.
Reality Ends Here. Please Mind the Gap.Their conversations are always interesting, but I have noticed that they don't come any more.
I wonder how much conviction I will have at my death about losing the illusion? My instincts for life are very strong.
[quote=Arthur Robey]Their conversations are always interesting, but I have noticed that they don't come any more.
[/quote]
I would love to be a fly on the wall for some of those conversations.
"To be offended" is an interesting concept: almost as though you are suffering physical harm by reading the words that flow from another's keyboard, and the only way to stop it is to make them be quiet. That must be an uncomfortable feeling, and you have our sympathies in dealing with it.
However, if you feel you have the right to assail any other user because you don't agree with their ideas, then let me assure you that this is not the case.
The moderators will determine when conversation has delved into our prohibited territory of religious (as opposed to spiritual) matters. In the meanwhile, if you cannot participate positively in the discussion, then you will do yourself a favor by stepping away from the keyboard. If you have any doubt about what I mean by "positive," then I suggest that you contact me before posting further.
In order to understand our live's journey we have to look at the bigger picture. There are two worlds we live in, the external and the internal. Most people live and look only to the external world because it is tangible and our minds tend to understand that tangible things are ''real''. For example, at PP we talk about money, gold, gas, natural resources, real estate etc…
However at the same time, we are living / walking the internal journey. The journey in search for happiness, to live a life that brings meaning and purpose to us and our families. To find joy in the things we do. To love and be loved. All of these can not be seen, only experienced. (PS: it's not because a person smiles that that person is happy. There can be big frustration or unhappiness in a person).
The problem that we have is that we often only look at the outside world in pursuit of happiness, purpose and love and that we forget to look inside.
As I said in my earlier post, in school we are never taught about ''what is our live's purpose'', ''what are my values'' etc… so we pursue external success to find a sense of happiness and purpose. It's often only when we have a burnout, or crisis or big incident that our ego gets damaged and we start walking or exploring the internal journey.
We have to learn to trust our inner self and let it be a guide on our journey, rather than external expectations. Our own ''gut feeling'' is the inner compass that should act as our guide on our life journey. They key to ''success'' is to align your internal and external world. That you are able to discover and fulfill your life's purpose and live a good life externally. That your inner compass is your master and your mind and thoughts are tools to share your message with and for others… as Chris and Adam are doing so well here at PP.
Believe it or not, I just NOW read the entire podcast and the comments–was too busy with material things.
Oh Happy days are here again! As an ex-Jesuit of 15 years, a yoga/meditation instructor and founder of three Retreat Centers, along with a practice in Gestalt psychotherapy, a sociology professor, and "enlightenment" seeker of many years, as well as a student of Non-violent Communication, ALL of the above gladened my heart of hearts, which is primarily Zen-oriented. (This not identificationshit, or bragging jazz–just some parts of me).
However I'd like to add something here. I have been reading some books by Amit Goswami–The Self Aware Universe; Quantum Creativity; The Visionary Window: A Quantum Physicist's Guide to Enlightenment; God is Not Dead, Doctor Quantum, etc.
I also met this very authentic scientific spiritual being for 3 hours and found him to be one of the few that I felt totally connected to: heart to heart, mind to mind, spirit to spirit. His books bridge the scientific with the spiritual (especially the Eastern forms) like no other books I have read. So . . .highly recommended.
He even will publish a new book soon: Quantum Economics!!! Can't wait to see this one.
My life of the later years has been involved in trying to create authentic physical communities, mutually supportive spiritually-oriented places of personal transformation. Quite a challenge! with frequent bouts of disappointment, doubt, hopelessness and more. THIS PODCAST shows that a VIRTUAL community is truly possible and maybe I just need to be more of a conduit wherever that will lead regarding physical community. Thanks to all of you for you all!!
As all this pertains to me I just sense a Mumbo Jumbo to all Self analysis, the need and wanting of something more with explanation just feels like a project that will never, ever be fulfilled and a whole lot of life will be lost seeking instead of participating in life. Reality is the here and now, often processed for a good bit but still in need of answers now. The self help, be the person who you want to be is never to be attained. Your core, the inner person has alredy been established and is where you can hone you skills in the present. Be more polite or not, etc… So, why is go with the flow types the abstract model?
I forgot to mention some of Goswami's other books that merit consideration:
Physics of the Soul: The Quantum Book of Living, Dying, Reincarnation, and Immortality; and also, Creative Evolution.
Even more important for some, is that he will facilitate a month-long Quantum Life Coaching Teacher's Training course in COSTA RICA, mid-Jan to mid-Feb 2016 at our Awareness Center: www.AwarenessCenters.com in the most beautiful of countries.
Plus, a weekend Seminar at the New Age Center next summer (Nyack, NY) where hopefully about 75 folks will show up and of those, hopefully about a dozen will then attend the Costa Rica experience of 2016,
He even is a quantum ACTIVIST (thus personal as well as social transformation)–see his book: How Quantum Activism Can Save Civilization.
Just needed to share some of this will you all. Have a Blessed/Great Thanksgiving. I love you all. Zen,aka. Ken
The central driver to all perspectives is culture. Forget spiritualism, religion, reflection on belief systems, meditation and the Socratic method. The root of the problem behind all erroneous human thinking is culture.
I'm talking about the dogma of ideals you learn from birth from your parents, peers, your school and then the greater society. The indoctrination that most people don't realise they suffer under but which sets the moral compass in any so called "scientific discussion".
If a person is unable to see where culture steps its muddy boot in to influence their thinking then they are really unable to offer an opinion on right or wrong because they are biased by a thinking that was handed down to them by their ancestors; a thinking that is not truly independent and scientific.
Until humans learn to step outside their culture in a search for better ways of thinking and doing nothing will ever change.
The human washing machine of culture is permanently set on rinse and repeat, its time to set it to soak and deep-clean. That requires some serious pragmatism and the ability to think outside the religious, geo-political, peer and parent culture box.
Find that small group of pragmatists put them on a rocket and send them to another world to start again because they will ultimately be powerless to help the indoctrinated, semi-aware, emotional majority within this thrashing human melee we call modern society.
Here one of my favourite young ladies lucidly explains your material non-existence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRzFPsfIF0g
Here one of my favourite young ladies lucidly explains your material non-existence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRzFPsfIF0g
In light of this podcast: you might want to look into the work of the late Joseph Campbell. With his knowledge of the myths of mankind, he at least partially covers this material as well.