I’m with you Greg
This is a 4 dimensional problem…not a 1 dimensional or combination of: left-right, liberal-conservative, populist-libertarian. Need to get away from ideology and blame…more toward implementing proven, problem solving principles promoting highest human values.
2 cents.
Nichoman
Okay, now back to truly important things.
Hey, Greg, does Griffin in Jekyll Island talk about the sinking of the Titianic being planned so as to kill off many of the Astors, who were putting up the only elite resistence to the creation of the Fed? Funny it happened a year after. Ha!
Greg,
The problem with Glenn Beck - and by extension, all firebreathers - is the tendency to turn issues into an Us vs Them drama. This course should not be about partisan drama or the blame game. That’s what Glenn Beck’s show is about, however. This is the risk you run when you too closely ally difficult concepts with culture-war extremists. True, there are left-wing extremists but that is not what is pertinent here. FWIW, if this Course becomes just another watering hole for oversimplifying screamers, I’m outta here.
From the comments and tone of Chris…doubt he would allow this to happen. If it does become "political"…I’m gone as well.
Nichoman
Nichoman well said… Please point me to your past post on "proven problem solving principles."
Thanks,
Cat
mainecooncat
Of course, the hard part was moving the iceberg in the Titanics path. ;-)
azzenstudent
I don't like the pointing fingers part either, and I don't listen to any of them on a regular basis, but they have large audiences which would help get the word out. The best thing to do with oversimplifying screamers is to just ignore them and they usually go away.
Greg
"…AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!
"
[quote=azzenstudent]I want to caution against turning the CC into another sideshow on the nutcase right. There’s actually enough blame - and reasonableness - go go around. By too closely associating this school with fire-breathing extremists, you risk contaminating the entire course. Glenn Beck is on Fox for a reason.
[/quote]
azzenstudent;
Judging by your "pre-emptive attack", it appears YOU already bring excess baggage to this forum.
Your friend; Gadfly
Gadfly,
What is "excess baggage"? Wanting this Course to remain open to everyone instead of True Believers? Really, this shouldn’t be a religion where we separate the sinful from the saved. Glenn Beck’s ENTIRE career is based on that false and inflammatory premise. If you disagree, state as much instead of clouding the argument in opaque language.
I agree with all the comments about not wasting time assigning blame. I can make a strong case that everyone is to blame, including myself for not understanding the issues sooner in my life.
A constructive place to focus our anger is the general lack of understanding of a very complex topic with long range implications that is inconsistent with our culture. It is an unfortunate reality that "Complexity" and "Long Range" and "Inconsistency with Culture" are not well suited for a brain that evolved to enable the success of a hunter gatherer.
The key to any positive change will be increased understanding. And the best teacher on the planet is the Crash Course.
We need to keep driving more people to view the Crash Course. I think it is our best hope.
Rob
Yes, I have to express concern that some of Beck’s audience (but by no means all, or even the majority), as well as Beck, might be the ones to turn the Crash Course into a political scapegoating game. Beck isn’t as bad as some, but his anti-evolution, anti-global warming, pro-Bush (until about 2007?) positions have to make me a little concerned that he and/or the Fox news gang will try and somehow blame this on the gays/atheists/socialists/foreigners/or other minority with no political power (which will provoke the left [well, the American left, who are not at all left wing internationally] to go to similar extremes); when it really is a problem that extends far beyond partisan battlelines. The last thing America needs is a civil war in the midst of a half dozen massive crises.
Wow! I just don’t see what azzenstudent sees about Glenn Beck at all! I think he’s way off base on this topic.
I’ve listened to Beck for years. He’s been arguing against Bush’s economic policies for many, many years (not just since 2007). He’s consistently railed against both parties for their elitism and "screw the little guy" mindsets. He’s been one of the only commentators to have the courage to rail against the Federal Reserve and question whether or not these guys really have the best interests of the United States in mind or not.
IMHO, I believe that most Glenn Beck fans believe that something is seriously wrong with our country, and believe that a majority of both Republicans and Democrats deserve a great deal of blame. Just my 2cents!
Hineslaw
azzenstudent wrote:
I want to caution against turning the CC into another sideshow on the
nutcase right. There’s actually enough blame - and reasonableness - go
go around. By too closely associating this school with fire-breathing
extremists, you risk contaminating the entire course. Glenn Beck is on
Fox for a reason.
azzenstudent,
Your comments already show your bias and political leaning. Since when has this been a "Left" only discussion?
Obviously Chris is excited about Glenn’s endorsement and his listeners coming to his site and your comments aren’t very welcoming.
Richard
The problem with Beck is the Blame Game. Usually, he blames liberals/Democrats, but his occasional ecumenicism doesn’t really change anything. When politics substitutes name-calling for rational argument, it’s already too late.
When I first watched the CC, I was struck by Chris’ calm and rational explanations. There was no heavy music, no thumping bass elevating the blood pressure. There were no lovely angels and despicable devils. Both sides were implicated. Both sides must be part of the solution if there is going to be one.
We need to stop believing in fairy tales involving our wisdom and some other guy’s stupidity. We need to reach as far down as we can to invite reasonable discourse because it’s our only hope.
hineslaw;
To CM members,it is important to understand that Glenn does use hyperbole and sarcasm, thus not everything he says should be taken seriously. He is also of the mindset of Mr. Martenson, in that, he does not expect to have whatever he says to be taken as gospel. It is OK to challenge him, afterall, we are here to assist each other in this paradigm shift.
Hi Hineslaw,
I agree wth you. I too have been listening to him for years. I fail to see why many are offended by someone who takes what appears to be consistent principled stands on issues based on his or her moral and ethical framework. This appears to be conservative/some what libertarian.
On the other hand, he does not show any mercy for so called conservatives or the government under a Republican administration. He does seem to be very fair: He recently stated on his TV show that he respect Dennis Kucinich (Spelling?) even though they are on opposite sides of most issues (in the solution sense but not n the problem sense). Why? Becasue Kucinich has principles and integrity.
So, I ask those who are hostile to Glenn, what is not to like about a, to all appearances, principled person with whom you disagree?
Note: I am not saying Glenn is perfect (he certainly does not and notes he alchoholism and the fact that is works contantly to rise above his "dark side", which we all have and some control better than others. Glenn certainly appears to have his under control these days and is doing something useful and productive.
Most of the time Beck does not have important background information for his conjectures…he appears to be an normal ignorant guy who does not have a problem voicing his opinion. One good thing is that he does not trust at face value…he asks questions. This is a start.
Yes, I agree ajparrillo. Another good thing is that his background facts and research have dramatically improved over the last several months.
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