What To Do With Your Cash?

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Hey MommyTammy
I understand where you’re coming from. There’s heaps of new stuff to learn; some more vital than others. Don’t get too hung up on what you don’t know yet but keep plugging away at it. Listen to the Crash Course on this site; it’ll take you through the important stuff and give plenty of background to help you understand the strange language that gets talked about the economy. It sounds like you’ve got a good head on your shoulders to run a business with all the regulation and paperwork involved so take it steady and work with what you’re comfortable with.
The first stage is getting to understand where your money is and who is doing what with it. Then you start moving it to places where you want it to be; putting it in the hands of people you can trust and supporting projects and businesses that you value. Maybe there’s some things around the home that are worth investing in so that you can cut some fututre costs; insulation, solar panels, garden; whatever you are comfortable with. … and pray for guidance; wisdom is given to those who ask for it.

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MommyTammy wrote:
Where do I begin????
I will second other people's recommendation to watch The Crash Course. However, that's a big bite (4.5 hours) Given your already very busy life, let me suggest you start here with a condensed version of The Crash Course: http://peakprosperity.com/acc This version touches all the bases, and if you want to learn more, well, that's why we exist. We're here to teach and learn from each other. When you have the time, the full Crash Course is essential information (for troubled times). Finally, our book Prosper! Jumps past the problem definition and pretty directly to the solution space. So if you are already pretty sure things are messed up and you are ready to take action, you can always get the book and start there. Again, welcome.
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Since we are talking here about investing a large sum of money… what about the Bitcoin? It seems to be gaining popularity in a pretty stable way, although the day-to-day rating may go up and down a bit too much… Could someone here share any advice or thoughts on this e-currency trading?
Thanks in advance :slight_smile:John

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JohnFrank, to me Bitcoin has all the hall marks of a bubble-mania. It is extremely volatile, has no intrinsic value, and its not even really used as a median of exchange [ which is its purported function ]. Its only real function right now is as a way to hide money, and as a speculation of what it might be.I would not invest a large sum of money into bitcoin, but I would consider a small, speculative investment.

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Brushhog… I really have to argue against some of the sweeping statements you made above. Yes, Bitcoin and the other crypto’s have looked bubbly this year… and yes, this means volatility… but in some ways I think that the volatility should be celebrated because it is the result of a mostly free market that is trying to value this very new asset class. Volatility seems natural here…
You said,

(Bitcoin) has no intrinsic value
Really? Are you saying this because you don't appreciate the, "intrinsic" value of software in general in our information economy, or because you don't think Bitcoin is itself useful software? It's hard to argue against the value of software in a world where companies like Microsoft and Oracle and Google have a combined market cap of around $1.5T, and between them there are almost no physical products .. in other words they make software. Bitcoin, and the blockchain in general, are quite elegant in terms of their decentralization and the benefits thereof, one of which (triple entry accounting) is explored in depth in this paper;
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/de/Documents/Innovation/B...
And to the point about Bitcoin actually being used.. used as a medium (median?) of exchange... well.. the Bitcoin economy continues to percolate, in many cases outside the US;
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-26/bitcoin-internet-1995 To me, one event stands out as bitcoin’s Netscape moment. That’s when Japan legalized bitcoin. Bitcoin’s Moment Since bitcoin was legalized, here’s what has happened in Japan… More than 260,000 stores in Japan are rolling out bitcoin as a payment method. Stores at famed electronics marketplace Akihabara have started accepting bitcoin. Japan is setting up a bitcoin “testing hub” for fintech companies. Leading Japanese bitcoin exchanges have unveiled plans to accelerate adoption. It’s all leading to increased usage of bitcoin in Japan.
And finally, to your point about, "hiding" money.. are you not aware of the impending digitization of the fiat money system, aka the eradication of cash? Are you an advocate for capital controls? What are you smoking Brushhog? Bitcoin and it's ilk are free market alternative forms of money... why anyone on this website would try to slander Bitcoin as a way to, "hide" money is beyond me... from the same article above,
Bitcoin has incredible value as an international transfer mechanism. You can take any amount in and out of any country. You don’t need permission from any government. You can send it across any border—or any number of borders—as often as you want. And there’s nothing anyone can do about it. I’ve seen this firsthand in Latin America, where bitcoin helps people get around capital controls. (Governments use capital controls to trap money within their borders so they have more to steal.) Bitcoin helps people bypass these restrictions. That’s because governments can’t freeze, seize, or block the transactions. This is why bitcoin is such a disruptive and exciting technology, and why bitcoin should be a critical tool in your international diversification toolkit. Bitcoin’s use is set to explode… and it could make you a fortune.
One can argue about the ability of governments to try to clamp down on Bitcoin and the like.. but the idea of free market, decentralized money is really something to celebrate.
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You made alot of points here so Im going to try to respond one by one;

  1. Intrinsic value. I stand by my statement that bitcoin has no intrinsic value. You claim that software has intrinsic value…yes if it is formed in a way that is functional. The software in bitcoin isnt formed in a way that can be transformed into something of value. Maybe some computer programmer can get some use from it but the cost of a bitcoin makes use of it’s software for other purposes price- prohibitive. There are much cheaper units of software that can be had. Saying bitcoin has value because it is comprised of software is like saying that dollars have value because they are made of paper. Sure paper has SOME value but they do not contribute to the value of a dollar very much.
  2. Use as a medium of exchange. This is not even debatable take a look at the velocity of a bitcoin. These are not being used in any real volume for trade. Most are being bought up by people hoping that somebody will be willing to pay more for them down the road.
  3. Anonymity and hiding money. Here bitcoin does provide a real value. I never expressed a value judgment. I merely said that Bitcoin’s best function has been in allowing people to hide money. I never said that was a bad thing in and of itself. I dont know where you got the idea or why you went off on a rant about my advocating capital controls, smoking something funny, or “slandering” bitcoin for said use since none of that ever happened except in your own mind.
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Brushhog said,

3. Anonymity and hiding money. Here bitcoin does provide a real value. I never expressed a value judgment. I merely said that Bitcoin's best function has been in allowing people to hide money. I never said that was a bad thing in and of itself. I dont know where you got the idea or why you went off on a rant about my advocating capital controls, smoking something funny, or "slandering" bitcoin for said use since none of that ever happened except in your own mind.
It was not in my mind that you suggested that gov't fiat, "money" is money while Bitcoin is not money. You suggested that people use Bitcoin to, "hide" money, suggesting that fiat is money (OK) and that Bitcoin, although having market acceptance all over the world as, "money" is in fact not, "money". This was not in my mind, this was in your words. Words have meaning, no? Possibly you did not think about this in your conscious mind.. but still you expressed an opinion about what does, and does not, constitute money.
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Jim H wrote:
Possibly you did not think about this in your conscious mind.. but still you expressed an opinion about what does, and does not, constitute money.
I think what is happening here is that you are so desperate to defend bitcoin that you are hearing fantom criticisms where there are none. This is starting to sound like a persecution complex. You accused me of advocating for cash controls and implying that hiding money is a bad thing. No such sentiment was expressed in any of my posts. I made that clear in my last response, now you are making the issue about what is or isnt "money". Im not going to engage you in that since it is not relevant to our initial discussion. The definition of "money" is a subject that has been argued all over the place for years. Ive heard every single argument ten times over.
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Grover, might want to check out the following article. I never thought I would be excited to see rates as “high” as 1.2% but it beats what I can get in my checking account.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertberger/2017/07/02/7-of-the-best-savin…

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Hold on for dear life.
A special "Two for one" historic moment is coming up quickly in the next few days. The price is rising as people seem to be rushing in to take advantage of getting both the newer 'BTC Cash' and maintain the equal amount of BTC. - Provided you have it stored on a personal wallet and not coinbase.
Two of my favorite words are coming together.
Free.
Money.
Listen a while and you might learn something in these parts. We are always happy willing to help teach new people to get ahead in life. These things are complex and difficult to get your head around - we've all been there.
When ethereum forked - we got both Ethereum Classic coins and maintained our original ethereum as well. It was also a rare 'free money' moment. This is the fun times and reasons for being in this new paradigm early.
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Are worth a lot. The holders of our land trust in a few decades will know of neither, I would love to wager. That being said, get your mare settled, and your milch coo too. My family has more joy from the land than from crypto currency. Trying to win the race of acquisition falls far short. The emotion arising from the awareness of ones enchantment, joy, is truly realized thru the recognition of, and fulfillment of ones limits.
i must give Aristotle credit for most of the above, an old wise guy. Till we “get a life”, it’s gonna suck! Why argue.

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Wondering if you can expand on your prediction. What is your reasoning? How much is you, and how much the philosopher for thousands of years ago? How are you sure?

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I’m with you philosophically, Robbie, but it would be foolish to ignore that TPTB won’t haunt the holders of your land trust for taxes and fees in the future. I’m thinking that *coins may be a prudent attempt to protect your holdings and provide for that eventuality…Aloha, Steve

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expect to be indentured to the land to provide for whoever controls TPTP. Not unlikely in my life time.
I have to go milk. Not a typist.

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expect to be indentured to the land to provide for whoever controls TPTP. Not unlikely in my life time.
I have to go milk. Not a typist.

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Wendy S. Delmater wrote:
There's enough lumber there we can still cash in the rest later if we make it through to the other side of the coming crash,
I think about this fairly often (though fortunately I don't obsess about it): Many of us won't make it through the "bottleneck", i.e., we won't survive the crash. Whether the crash occurs quickly or "slowly then all at once", the decline will be devastating to a human population in serious overshoot. Fair enough - we've wiped out other species to serve our purposes, and soon the tide will turn. Every day I wake up to rosy economic news from the financial sector and wonder how we became so distanced from nature and reality. My state has record low unemployment, the housing market is booming, we have a severe shortage of available houses to rent or buy, stocks are at all-time highs (but I missed out on the recent boom, by sitting on cash), our valley is flooded with tourists spending money and filling up our hotels & restaurants & hiking trails. Gasoline prices are still low, and people seem to have a lot of spending money. Meanwhile, my mining clients are slow to pay, and some are on the verge of bankruptcy. My small farm is still losing money, as I build up the soil and plant berries and 'practice' growing food in a cold climate. There aren't many bees this year, but the raspberries are all pollinated and I'm hand-pollinating the squash. The trucks keep bringing groceries, and I wonder why I'm working so hard... Those who make it across the divide will work this hard - and harder - to grow food and build community. Six months of food in a "deep pantry" won't get us through the bottleneck. Fruit trees and garden soil will (hopefully) get us through the decades of the bottleneck and beyond. Someone will be eating the cold-hardy cherries, honeyberries, and apple trees I've planted. It might not be me.
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Waterdog14 wrote:
Every day I wake up to rosy economic news from the financial sector and wonder how we became so distanced from nature and reality. My state has record low unemployment, the housing market is booming, we have a severe shortage of available houses to rent or buy, stocks are at all-time highs (but I missed out on the recent boom, by sitting on cash), our valley is flooded with tourists spending money and filling up our hotels & restaurants & hiking trails. Gasoline prices are still low, and people seem to have a lot of spending money.
History may not repeat, but it sure does rhyme. Let's review the "roaring Twenties."
For 10 years [during the Roaring Twenties], between the destruction of World War I and the misery of the Great Depression, people in North America were actually happy. With money in their pockets and a renewed sense of optimism after the end of the Great War, Americans and Canadians developed an insatiable appetite as consumers and a newfound appreciation for leisure during the 1920s. Innovative, mass-produced goods became available for the first time, making some industrialists fabulously wealthy, and the automobile was all the rage. Zipping around town in their new Ford Model Ts, Americans saw their first movies, flocked to live sporting events and swung their fringed dresses — part of a fashion movement characterized by wild costumes — dancing in liquor clubs. (Source)
The Roaring Twenties were marked by people spending like crazy, partying, buying mansions and yachts, and (most importantly) racking up the 1920's version of the credit card. The narrative of the day included all the exciting new technologies (radio, telephone, automobiles, etc) that supported the idea that this new prosperity was real and durable. Now ... about that...where did the prosperity actually come from? Let's turn back to the credit card:
In November 1930, before anyone knew how Great the Depression would be, Charles Persons published an article in the Quarterly Journal of Economics called “Credit Expansion, 1920 to 1929, and Its Lessons.” His thesis was stated forcefully in the first paragraph: “The thesis of this paper is that the existing depression was due essentially to the great wave of credit expansion in the past decade.” He then meticulously documented data on the stunning growth in borrowing by households during the 1920s. As is common in the run-up to severe economic downturns, there was a tremendous growth in mortgage debt. “The great field of credit expansion in the last decade lies in the realm of urban real estate mortgages”, Persons wrote. In nominal terms, outstanding mortgage debt grew by more than eight times from 1920 to 1929, according to Persons. Persons also highlighted the rise in installment debt, or consumer debt used to purchase new furniture, clothing, sewing machines, and cars. Martha Olney at Berkeley examined the rise in purchases of cars and other durables during the 1920s, and concluded that “societal attitudes toward borrowers changed radically between 1900 and 1920; by the mid-1920s, buying on credit was considered normal, not sinful.” Persons concluded his 1930 article with a statement that is eerily similar to many we here today: “The past decade has witnessed a great volume of credit inflation. Our period of prosperity was based on nothing more substantial than debt expansion.” (Source)
Repeat after me: "prosperity" resulting from credit inflation is a false dawn. It's been tried over and over again and it always fails. This time the Central Banks feel they have the dynamic under control because they can control the asset markets with greater and more powerful precision. They routinely interfere with the pricing mechanisms both overtly and covertly. In this regard, yes, it is different this time. But what is not different is that the laws of economics still lurk, unrepentant, waiting patiently to emerge, and when they do the next depression will make the Great Depression lose the moniker of "great" because it will be rather minor by comparison. In the meantime, it's really hard to sit by, being prudent, when all of the forces of government and the private banking cartel are arranged against the prudent, and tilted towards the reckless. For example, if you are a corporate CFO and you did *NOT* borrow heavily to buy back shares and ramp up your EPS fraudulently, then your stock was punished. So not many sat out the credit boom and remained prudent: This all works until it doesn't. When it doesn't look out below. The damage will be extraordinary and lasting.
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Hi Chris,
Perhaps Awesome Depression or Seriously Awesome Depression would be a good, new moniker. They are some great overused (IMO), contemporary words (at least in my neighborhood among the kids and their parents).

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Jim,
I’ve always valued your highly intelligent input and willingness to question the status quo. We’ve agreed on many things in the past. With regard to digital currencies, however, I disagree with you. As you know better than me, digital currencies will supplant paper fiat currencies as we now know them. However, you won’t be able to protect your wealth with them. The only reason they are being allowed to run freely now is that they are carefully being observed … beta testing if you will. The pros and cons of Bitcoin, Ethereum, and others, their weaknesses and their strengths, are all being carefully watched and noted. It is Darwin time … survival of the fittest. The one which survives and has the fewest flaws will be co-opted, tweaked, and customized to become the one world digital currency. Any opponents will be crushed. You say the blockchain technology is impenetrable? I say that anything that man can design, encode, or encrypt, machines will be able to destroy, decode, and decipher. You say that this is impossible. I say quantum computing. It’s already here (as of 2017) and they are going gangbusters on its further development and implementation. It will be able to hack into any present digital currency. The control of non-tangible monetary wealth will be total and nothing, NOTHING, we can do will be able to stop it. It’s just a matter of time. Our destiny is beyond our control, as much as I hate to admit it.

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I really really want to believe in blockchain, but i keep running into alternate ideas (which i seek out to run against my own biases) that say uh uh, no way, just say no. The article linked below was another reason to look a different direction. Not saying I’m done investigating, but investigation is leading that way.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-27/globalist-one-world-currency-wi…
Brandon is hit or miss as much as i’ve read, however this thought process gave me pause, so thought i’d pass it along since it was semi-relevant.