And you’re referencing the far west vent?
It’s the third window from the right (East) side of the building and the vent to the right of that window(facing the building).
Keep in mind, what you see as the angle when you are 6 foot or so on the ground, is not reality.
You would have to be elevated to Trump’s ear level. I guessed the elevation plus podium at Trump’s ear level given a podium height of 48" and Trump at 6’2". I think I had the window at 7 ft height max. I had the fences at 6 foot, recognizing that as the max even though they might be lower since the poles seemed to be for a 6 foot fence, the link was drooping across the spans, and people at the fence were taller at many sections of the fence.
Not sure how I mis-communicated, but the vent you show with an arrow is exactly the vent I propose for the 2nd Shooter. We agree.
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The original conversation was only about the farthest vent to the west at the very corner of the building. That’s the one I referenced when I said I didn’t think it would clear the fence to shoot from that vent. I have no doubt the other vents will clear.
Hey I just noticed that Chris is on with Bret
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To have any chance of lining up with similar angle to target as Crooks it would have to be this vent or smaller one to right of it.
Anyway it’s imperative we get a highly accurate model with S. Bleachers Railing bullet strike. That is only way to test if first shot came from anywhere other than Crooks.
The vent to the right of the third window is a strong candidate. It would just depend on the setup inside as to how feasible it would be to use it and keep it hidden from anyone entering after the shots.
And I only say that because climbing into and out of a ceiling area could be more complicated than using a window with a removable pane. That setup is just: removable pane and a gun. EZPZ
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walk in with buddy, gun is already set up (plausible deniability if it were even discovered- “this is one of our crowd observation areas, we’re supposed to be here”)
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buddy removes pane
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take shots
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buddy puts pane back in
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break down gun and go (a “sniper” could just run that rifle back up to the second story with the other gear…and then come down out of the AGR 1 minute later, filled with relief and calm that they didn’t get caught: just saying)
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replace window for real that night or on nights 2 or 3 (and just to be clear, you can even make that window replacement look old, rub some dirt or mold or rust on it, scratch up any frame parts if needed, it’s the exact same as when people want something to look distressed for aesthetics, literally not hard at all).
never happened, whistles and walks away
Magicians pull shit like that all the time and for this one: you don’t even have observers.
If you want to play out this scenario, you can count the time needed.
How long does it take you to grab a prepared frame and lower it? How long to slide it back into place? It’s so incredibly fast, especially if you’ve practiced.
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Did anyone else notice that there seemed to be some type of thick dried out goop on the ridge in between the ribs where Crooks shot from?
It almost looked like a spot marker- “shoot from here, Crooks”
And if you look at that graphic: the vent is good, but the 3rd window probably lines up with Crooks’ position, as in exactly lines up.
pm-cache://YQumBl_iF0pDoxrKnE-xRAY4ylBN7YFZkhKfzkGQwwbE1CYLgp4fWDzGC3hwd-dakT14A7T7Z_sqIWSMmrU0MQ==
Has anyone checked to see if any of the fans behind the vents have signs of being removed/re-installed?
I’m still puzzled about Crooks’ both sitting up and looking West.
To sit up from prone 8-9 seconds after getting fragged is the opposite of what I’d expect the natural reaction to be - to protect oneself.
The turn West was really pronounced. This pic from the ESU’s hypothesized location near that orange machinery does indicate the ESU’s shot came from Crooks’ right, relative to his position aiming at Trump.
I would think Crooks being able to differentiate between South, Southwest, West as origins of shot #9 would be almost impossible. I’m still left wondering whether his dramatic turn westward had some reason other than guessing shot #9 came from there.
And even if he thought so, would sitting up and looking westward make sense at that stage? You’ve been sighted and hit already, are you going to sit up and start scanning to then maybe locate the shooter and then sight him to then counter fire? That’s a hugely disadvantageous bet that you won’t get hit again and again before you manage to counter.
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I agree with the logic of what you’re saying. However, you had plenty more time to consider that than the 8-9 seconds Crooks did in a life threatening situation that he was never in before during his 20 years. Rather than looking at it from a logical perspective, we should look at crooks’ action from his perspective. I believe his movement would have been reactionary as opposed to calculated or reasoned.
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One thing I’ve wondered: remember when the woman screams Ross over and over really loud?
I wondered if Crooks thought she was screaming Thomas.
He might have been like oh shit, someone who knows me is here. That’ll get your attention fast.
Not likely, but I considered it.
Following up the window gate
The first screenshot with the light blue arrows added (post 476 by DougT) is taken from the following video.
2024-07-13 Beaver Co ESU Bodycam 1.mp4 (sharepoint.com)
The bodycam timestamp at the moment of the screenshot was 19:09:18 (1m04s into the video)
Important, be aware
In this same video the guys are several times checking their smartphones and the time can be seen. Due to a difference between the bodycam timestamp and the time shown on the phone, I conclude the real time is about 2 minutes behind the timestamp. The Beaver County ESU bodycam timestamps are unsynced and therefore not accurate!
19:08:53 vs 7:07pm
19:09:05 vs 7:07pm
19:09:43 vs 7:08pm
The first time the left window facing east can be seen open in this video is at timestamp 19:08:32, so at 19:06:something (corrected time)
The time when Beaver County ESU first approaches the roof can be seen in this video
2024-07-13 Beaver Co ESU Bodycam 2.mp4 (sharepoint.com)
When the bodycam first catches the east facing windows at timestamp 18:31:10 or 18:29:something (corrected time), both windows are closed.
The last time the east facing windows can be seen is in this video
2024-07-13 Beaver Co ESU Bodycam 3.mp4 (sharepoint.com)
At timestamp 19:00:40 or 18:58:something (corrected time) the east facing windows can last be seen and are both closed
Butler Township PD reached the roof before Beaver County ESU, video can be seen here. As far as I know these timestamps are accurate.
BTPD Body Cam footage 7.13.24 – Dropbox
There are 4 guys approaching the roof at the interconnection between AGR6 and AGR3 (lifted up)
and one guy approaching the roof at AGR3 beside door 8 (using palett)
The camera of the guy filming (lifted up the interconnection) first spots the guy that used the palett on the roof at 18:16:54. left window could be open but I’m not 100% sure.
First time the camera catches the left window closed from roof position ontop AGR6 at 18:17:09
My conclusion regarding the two east facing windows
- first time we have bodycam footage ontop of the (interconnection) roof at 18:16:52 (BWC2-122110), 5m20s after the first shot
- 5 cops ontop of the roof at this time (4 AGR6, 1 AGR3)
- right window when caught by camera always closed
- left window could be open when first caught on camera at 18:16:54
- left window closed when first caught on camera from position ontop of AGR6 at 18:17:09
- Left window after 18:17:09 not seen open on footage until 19:06:something (corrected time / Beaver County ESU Bodycam 2)
- Bodycam timestamp Beaver County ESU not correct by about 2 minutes (unsynced) and therefore to be corrected
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How unusual is it for body cams to be off by this much time?
It seems so strange.
Great work, as always! Are all BWC2 bodycams off by that amount do you think?
It’s important to remember, it’s not just ESU, it’s Beaver ESU and Butler ESU. If we look at the after-action report apparently written by Beaver, they indicate that some of the maps saying where personnel should be situated were provided by Butler.
For example, on page 2 of this PDF, we see guns at AGR with the legend “Materials Provided by Butler Command”.
Then, we also have things like the texts that say “We have been requested by Butler to assist …”
So there are two ESU organizations, one relatively in command (Butler) and one relatively subservient (Beaver). But which one went on TV when it all went wrong? Beaver. Why?
I’ve searched a lot. It’s pretty easy to find who’s in Beaver ESU. I probably have 95% of their whole roster. Butler, on the other hand, that’s much harder. Why?
There were originally three guys in the two-story building with overlook of AGR 6. Two were Beaver, and we know both their names, Jason Woods and Greg Nicol. We still don’t know who the third person from Butler is. Why?
My point is, it seems like there’s a concerted effort to conceal the people who were relatively in charge.
4 Likes
Thanks.
What’s your question exactly, could you explain pls?
Basically, how many timestamps are impacted? Was it just the one bodycam, or all bodycams in the set of 12 videos released by Pearson?
Hey VegasPatriot. I had to get my paint program installed and figure out how to try to communicate this, so it’s taken me a little while to respond.
I can see where you’re coming from.
I’ll explain what I’m seeing, but I’ll have to do it in two parts.
Part 1:
I believe the cell tower building we’re seeing out the window is the western of the two tower buildings.
I have outlined the edges of the building out the window so the perspective angles can be easily seen.
Looking at the satellite image shows what one will see of the cell buildings, perspective wise, from the windows. Also I have drawn lines from the windows showing where the poles should line up behind their respective buildings when seen from the windows.
[edit: credit to VegasPatriot for the following base image. The red lines are mine, but the rest was all his. Thanks VP.]
A still from Eli Crane’s video demonstrates what the perspective of the building sides should look somewhat like.
Part 2:
Here’s what I see is going on with the crazy window frame in the “sniper 2” image. I’ll correlate the “sniper 2” image with the “sniper 3” image for reference:
a. window trim
b. frame of the window screen partially obscured by the angle
c. exterior facing side (when window is shut) of open window frame, catching the outside light
d. side edge of window frame
e. window casing/frame that window will go into when shut, catching exterior light
f. window screen frame
g. part of window frame/casing that screen frame attaches to
h. side of window trim and other finishing trim leading to window, catching exterior light
i. window trim
Here’s nest 1 for reference also:
Thanks VP.
Ubb