Why We All Lose If the Fed Wins

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41

Jan - a sobering article on Argentina. I've read Ferfal's book and read his blog occasionally so I had some idea of the conditions there. Argentina has not really recovered and he was fortunate (good planning) to leave the country as things continue to deteriorate.
But at some point, there will be no place to go that isn't affected, thus I don't anticipate leaving my home. I like sand_puppy's idea of encouraging neighborhood gardens. The more people close to me who aren't panicked by hunger, the better.

I sometimes wonder what I would do if faced with unbearable conditions. I imagine there will be many who will choose suicide as a way out (see Greece). Others will become more aggressive and take what they can. I don't know how I would react. My husband and I are in our early 60's - would we be willing to die prematurely so those younger could live? All very difficult to look at and I don't spend much time thinking about it. But the thought does occur from time to time. . .

I would hope that I wouldn't lose my humanity. I would hope that I would choose to do my best to help others where possible. Perhaps it's my age plus having a spiritual practice, but I don't think life on this planet is all there is. I believe something survives physical death. So I don't cling so strongly to the idea that I must survive the end of civilization. My time here might be over. So be it. That is not to say I want to die just yet! I will do what I can to prepare and to survive. But I accept that I will die and hope that I will have some choice in how I die. In the end, it's how we've lived that determines the nature of our death. So I plan on living the best possible life I can while I can. I strive to be the best person I can be in both my living and my dying.

42

agreed.BOB

43

all these things very possible.
it does chill the anatomy in places…sometimes.
i have built an outdoor cooking complex that others after me can use. i have built a homestead capable of supporting many…whether i am here or not. i have tried to build a god sent place for whomever stumbles across it. we must think beyond our own lives.
i am 60, i can’t reproduce.(nor did i) but i have tried to leave behind my knowledge.
having said all that, and btw, lots of good thought on this thread, i will try to survive however i can. it’s just who i am.
i have no qwalms about deception if it keeps me alive.
i keep civility in my heart and will then resort -to -as -i -have- to surcomstances . if i survive this period of transition, i will unload civility from the pocket from which i’ve placed it. anad return it as a gift to the future.
as things unfold, it all depends on where one lives…some will live the nightmare as in many places already. some will not. we will just have to punt as the game goes along.
trust yourself to do the right thing as you need to…priceless.
death is not to be feared. and neither is the coming unspeakables. this is not a time to fear but a time to actively living . a time to outlast the hard times.
as a child , i was raped by my father, beaten by my mother who looked away from my fathers activities. i learned to outlast them. after 18 years i was legal and free. i have known hardship…and let it be known…there is joy and happiness interspersed with bloodshed. that is how life can be. sometimes we have to know it’s ok to laugh among the destruction–there are times it makes sense to do so.

44

I often wonder how resilient the peaceful, law-abiding people are going to be when situations require them to make snap decisions between violent self-defense and submission to violent attack.  That's a tough personal frontier to negotiate and many will submit to violence rather than act contrary to a life of non-violence and obeying the laws/rules.  I wonder how resilient "the good people" can be when viewing dead humans on the street (especially if they themselves have killed them) and seeing unspeakable suffering on a daily basis. Whatever our future holds, that kind of emotional/spiritual resilience is going to be required of most people (and most people have not dealt with that before).
Personally, I wonder how accustomed to seeing death and inflicting violence I have become, and wonder if all my compassion and morals will desert me in the future when I need them most. So far, I feel confident, but we'll see how it goes as things get worse.

45

My heart aches with compassion for your journey in this life.  What a brave soul! You have endured more than most. We live in a tragicomedy called life. The trick is not to take it too seriously. It helps me to think that we are spirit temporarily residing in these physical bodies to learn lessons. To learn to forgive is so important. We are all flawed and works in progress.
 I salute your courage and abiltity to survive and thrive. Your life, though difficult, has prepared you for hardship. And you can pass on lessons learned to others as we slip into decline.

Thank you for your honesty. The time for pretense is done. We must all be authentic and raw. The times demand that we put aside all that is false and speak the truth as you have done.

Love to you,

Joyce

46

…you are fast becoming one of my hero's here in our community. A BIG Yogi sized bear hug. Have a great day.BOB

47

thank you all for your kind words.
know that i am fine and healed. i did the work.

as stoneleigh once said : for some, the coming days will be like falling out of a first floor window. for others it will be falling out of a 9th story window.

luckily i was one of those crazy spirited kids who was like johnny.

the teacher sent johnny to the corner for misbehaving. johnny replied,"i may be in the corner but in my mind i'm still at my desk"!

 

48

I actually wrote this last night but hit something (?) on my new keyboard and much to my dismay my draft post went “poof” Gee I hate that…
Bob, I can understand not wanting to talk about this crap – I do not enjoy it either, however, I do view it as part of the larger preparation process. It seems you are blessed to be in circumstances that give you confidence that you would be able to survive okay in a threatening societal breakdown. Some of us do not have that luxury. Where I find the value in these discussions is that it prods my thinking to re-assess my own situation using risk management criteria. It causes me to ask myself things like “am I living in the best/right place?” “How are people in this neighborhood likely to react to such a thing? “ “Who, if anyone, among my neighbors would I want with me in the trenches in a SHTF scenario? What do they bring to the table, and can I trust them? How much can I trust them?” “If I have to leave in a hurry where will I go and what are my resources?”

If we never discuss the things that make us uncomfortable how will be able to formulate good back up plans for ourselves? Of course, we all hope it never comes to this, but better to have a plan B than to be blind-sided by something that we refused to prepare for because we would not acknowledge the possibility of it happening.

Ferralhen, thanks for sharing your experience and demonstrating what bravery and perseverance looks like. Your attitude is highly likely what helped you to develop the resilience to deal with these horrific things. Stories like yours give me inspiration to continue in this sometimes rotten, ugly world.

Thc0655, I concur with all you wrote. None of us know how we will truly react if we find ourselves in a threatening, violent situation. Some may succumb to the violence, and others may surprise themselves with the levels they will go to in order to ensure survival for themselves – more so if dependents are involved. In the heat of the moment, we are all capable of unspeakable deeds. Whether we will be able to live with ourselves after the fact is a completely different ball game. No matter which way it goes, psychologically speaking, I think it is inevitable that we would be different people when the situation ends.

All I know with a certainty is that if I take even small steps to help me deal with (and hopefully survive) such terrible scenarios, my chances will be that much better.

Note-due to my dumb keyboard problem I have written this on a Word doc and cut & pasted. If the formatting is all messed up, that is why

Jan

 

49

Jan, I do love you for a fact. OK, lets talk, and lets be real. First rule before reading on though is this is not personal and I am just going to wing it.
"I hate this crap" is me shaking out my visuals of actually having  to visualize many encounters in my life and the gruesome aftermath of the serious violence spilling on the streets because one has to win and one has to lose. Still standing doesn't make defending my space any better for my actions. Additionally, in the future that is being implied here you/we will have to stand and defend ourselves, again, with many, and often, and weekly, and monthly, and, and, and. 

Jan, I have no clue if I live in the best place or not. Where I live is a reality, and is as descibed in a previous thread, and I have shared with you the area I do live in so you have my reality and visuals of my physical space. You also have my bug out zone space as I have shown you this too. I will however take my chances here. If I have to, then a bug out place is there for me and 3 hours North, and 2 hours North of that.

Jan, I seriously do not care and I never, ever, think about any of this until I read it here. Truthfully, I do not fear what I do not see in front of me or behind me. I have always known when, in real time, what I must do and I do it. If you or others have no experience in this arena then you are in for one seriously rude awakening. Pointedly, it is too late already for you or anyone who suffer a simular upbringing. Negotiation is not an option. Plainly, you busted up and ask questions later. Can you do this?

Having an understanding of you Jan (somewhat) and your hearing handicap (as I have and anyone reading this just stick your name where Jan's is and add your physicality ), and your years as you have intimated before, I would strongly recommend that you seek an alternative to city life. If it is honest dialogue we wish to speak here then your chances of surviving the detailed muses spoken here then the odds of you surviving a violent chance encounter are very slim. If you are worried about your city garden then you are not thinking clearly, preparing properly, and already exist in a very dangerous environment so get out if you can. What do you have in your garden and how much will your flush support you? A winter, a month, couple of weeks, a week? 

The odds of you surviving in the setting I live in (not being boastful or greater than thou) are marketably higher is my opinion. With folks who aren't sqeemish about sticking their buck knife into the animals privates and cutting them off, let alone gut the damn rat, possum, deer or whatever. Road kill even better. This home I live in will be abandoned the moment I feel necessary (I do not believe it will be) and I will not care about the contents within. Just my personals as I am set up elsewhere, and it happens to be a vacation/2nd home. Simular fine folks live their too. Nearby however, I have many bug out zones that with like minded folks we can defend, and defend well as it is our own back yards, and we have the motivation, skills, and family to keep us going when times are tough. That is a huge advantage over passer bye's who will find it extremely difficult to mentally challenge a community who are so closely linked. Still, if things get so bad then family will turn on family. Even in less severe conditions family members will still rob you if their circumstance is less than ideal. You are a single girl with aging skill sets. I do not wish to be blunt at all but open enough so that you see things for the way they are. I mean no disrespect at all here Jan or to anyone else. 

Your choice, and I respect you all your decisions. Still, a community of Folks such as the ones I live with is your best chance is still my loving choice for you. You are personable and sweet, and would fit in seemlessly because of your work ethic, determination, and because you can handle an axe. A tool that is great for chopping wood, and heads off of chickens but not useful really in hand to hand combat when going up against a young man or woman who could disable you on the quick. You are not physically who you were in your youth, so again, just stating the obvious. Me either. 

I am no fortune teller on the future but my suggestion would be to seek an area out as I live in and make some quick in roads to the way of the community that has few people, that are well armed, raise their own food, fish their own food, barter for food, have fresh water wells, and the sight of blood and gutts in an environment where you better not be too squeamish about sticking a knife into the throat of a surprised and violent adversary should that arise unexpectantly. Naturally taking a life would be totally unacceptable to anyones mental being. Yet, you may just have to do it.

Like I said, "I hate this crap" but I guess we must talk about it.

Lastly, to truly talk openly and honestly about any subject here at our PP community would be long and laborous as this thread was for me. How can I possibly tell someone what to expect when I have no clue the true make up of that individual? How can I truly judge them wihout ever having met them, and who's circumstance I will never know? At best we can only relate, and I was just trying to relate my circumstance, and only those who live as I do can truly appreciate what I am saying. Now, I have lived in the big city, Detroit, and seen so much, and Detroit is the future if everything here is to be believed. If that is the case, and Detroit is the example, then no one here including me stands a very good chance of anything, you will not even know yourself if all these things that fear based fantasy imagines, because you will not be the you, you see in the mirror today. Fact is, everything you have in your life right now will most likely be gone. Jobs, materials possesions, cash, and maybe even the cloths on your back. Isn't life grand and facing a reality that you are speaking of that isn't here, and isn't reality, and that you aren't prepared for now, and you will only have deminishing skills every day going forward is just not, in any shape or form of how I will live my life today. So, "I hate this crap" sounds good to me but you guys go ahead and worry yourself sick. Me, I think I am going to nap now. My preps are done for today, I am resilient as I can be for today. Have a great weekend.

Jan, nothing here was meant to be pointed or upsetting so if it was then just call me whatever you want and I am sorry. I will not respond further to this topic. 

Hey Jan, how about them Tigers? Cabrerra!!! He is a gift from the Gods, what a player.

BOB

 

50

Yesterday, I caught the last half of a movie called "The Road"  - it ties right into this thread. My summary is this: a father and young son trying to find a safe harbor in a post-apocalytic, total collapse scenario. Starvation, cannabalism, insanity… basically the entire world was dead, and the last few people were doing whatever they decided they needed to to survive. It was pretty grim, but is one view of what a total collapse could look like. It does beg the question - what is "humanity"?
Regarding fences - in response to a couple of earlier posts - fences are largely symbolic for humans. It's pretty difficult to build a fence that will actually deny entry to a human who is determined to pass. For the most part, fences symbolically represent a barrier, but aren't actually much of a barrier. Humans who respect the usual social norms (ie thou shalt not steal, lie, kill, etc, etc) will generally respect the symbolic barrier that a fence is. Those folks who do not  abide by the usual social norms will not care if there is a fence or not - they will live by whatever code of morality they have, and do whatever they choose. Were I growing a garden in my front yard, I would erect a simple and low cost fence, and figure that it will keep out maybe 9 out of 10 people, and realize 1) there is nothing that I can do to truly fence out anyone and 2) when more people get hungry, my garden will get raided repeatedly and thoroughly.

The method of collapse (ie fast and all at once vs slow and gradual) will probably significantly figure into how much and what type of impact each of us will feel. If there is a sudden (and prolonged) collapse, then pretty much every person (and most other life on Earth) will suffer horribly. As has been noted in many posts on this thread, a huge portion of the human population would die within the first few months. And the survivors will likely have to disregard many/all the social norms just to stay alive. However, if the collapse is slow and gradual (I believe we are already experiencing a gradual collapse), then people may have time to adapt, and adapt again, and again. People will suffer, but there may be some margin of adequate resources and cultrual change that will enable some people to retain some of their "humanity" and allow us to keep some of those characteristics that make humans worth all this trouble - generosity, love, integrity, family… I don't think I'm expressing this very well, but if we descend to a level of doing literally anything to survive - have we become animals (no disrespect to animals intended)? Are we still human? What makes us human?

 

 

51

jan and bob…i hear both of you.and like you both…from what i've read.
short reply:

someday jan a man may leave you in the dust as he runs to safety and bob, someday the woman you love will express fears such as jan and hold you back. you both know how life is.

is it look before you leap or he who hesitates is lost.? we don't know and we can't plan for it.

jan if you feel vulnerable , do something about it. and thank you bob for taking the time to explain things to jan. i felt vulnerable so i left a condo with a pool, shopping close by, hospital close by for the isolated country of never ending.hard work homestead.when my pets died , i did not replace them…i travel light.because it made me feel safer.           rest.

story:

in the early 80's newly married, my ex husband and i were in a high rise hotel fire.(9th floor and at midnight) yes very similar to 911, only no planes and less people. the threat the same. details in a later post…for now , we got separated and i knew it was the end of the line for me…same spunk…if i'm gonna die, then die trying and i ran down the smoke(nasty unable to breathe this burning plastic toxic shit smoke)fill stair wells with my eyes burned closed from toxic smoke shut.i visualized the stairs but still fell each landing. several flights.

i made it out and then i saw him(ex) leaning out of a window on the 7th floor with smoke billowing behind him.i was out he was not. i knew what he was in.(and to this day i know the smell and on 911 i smelled that smell for 3 days) at that time i loved him and i prayed and then let go and decided what will be will be and i can deal withthe outcome later…i stopped trying to will the outcome and accepted whatever it would be…that kept panic at bay and gave me sense of mind.it took 45 minutes before they got him out.

a whole other trama…helplessness

before i ran out , bob, this was my omg,(shit don't happen to me but to others) this is it moment and i saw no way out because i had already ascertain the smoke in the stairwell was deadly toxic(which was correct), if not hot. and we can find ourselves in that moment before we die, with absolutely nothing to do about it…i know this…and not knowledge i wish to have, trust me. i have it so i dealt with it.

ok , so

shit does happen, and to me. forget about the odds  if you find yourself in the moment …then believe it happens.and it's real and very very real much more real than your fears jan or yours bob.but your body helps and goes into shock which numbs things down for you and you are incapable of feeling much pain.and at some point dying is the most next thing you wish for. usually you get the wish at this point.

then again…things happen sometimes and we live. those of us who do tell about it…those who don't live…well i think i've been as close to that point for now as i care to be.

i have just simplistically desribed the process of dying. i had experienced the hard part. and then i returned…and that took 20 years to work thru some sensible understanding.

 

main take away?

we are here til we are not.(it's not being simplistic…it's just how i've experienced it)

if you see danger, move away from it.or if you are military move toward it.

the curse of doing nothing to protect yourself,( be in shape , plan etc), is to worry. and that can kill you.

yes jan i am 60, no longer an athlete, no longer to outrun anything…but i don't put myself in the world trade center type situation anymore…i can; negotiate with others, etc,but left to nothing left i will fight…and take you down if i'm going down…it's survival…that's all. find that in you .

i would only be in that mode given i need to survive, but like bob, i know it's there…

and that is a comfort  albeit a false one perhaps.

i don't think of these things either til i go online.

i am as ready as i can think of, but i trust my instinct and spirit and know that someday i too will die.

i know without a doubt some day i will die…so i don't fear it anymore.  i may try to avoid it, but i don't fear it…and that gives me an edge.

52

          As I mentioned in another post, I'm a travelling sales rep and I started at 31. I figured that since I was going to be exposed to all kinds of circumstances that could make me an easy target for god knows what, I decided right away to train in Kung Fu Chinese Boxing and that lasted 4 years. That was brutal because unlike Karate, we trained and then we fought full contact with protective gear. There I saw how some people lost their heads and that was just to win! It had nothing to do for survival. Being 54 now i know for a fact that in order to have a chance at survival if I'm attacked  by a man (much stronger that I am) I can't pussy foot around. The blow has to break something or disable immediately. I still have good flexiblitiy and strenght but my capabilities are diminishing.I'm not where you are Bob…I don't have a bug out place. I have a real good deep pantry & PM's and cash. I learnt to fish and have the know how to hunt. Both my parents were large and small game hunters, moose ,cariboo  deer…yes I saw a lot of blood and guts and wilderness. I can naviagate the woods. Our week end fun was to pratice target shooting with the 270, 7mm and the 300.
So my present plan is I just finished cleaning and renovating my mortgage free house so it may be more sellable. Take that cash and then we can start to find a 2 nd place to transition to. That's why I need about 3 years. I hope. That's where all the planning in my head will  materialize.
I do this not just for myself but for the future and security of my children. 
Frankly if I didn't have kids I think I wouldn't give a shit and would just live it up like the rest of the zombies.
NN
To all XX and Thx
 
 

53

…your story is captivating to me and I hear you deeply.
So you know, I consider Jan a very Dear acquaintance. I like her very much. She's tough too and is why I was sensitive not to rile her up :-)!

Hearing or actually reading what you have said has taken me back into situations and seemingly dire circumstances in my 58 years of life, and while visiting I can see everything. I smell it, visually can relive every moment, and in each moment it is in slow motion. Time, seconds, are very long when in situations of survive or perish.

You had referenced my wife and how she may interfere with my quick response mechanism to harm and you are very perceptive to mention this. I have seen this lost advantage many times in my life. As has developed in the 41 years with my Lady she is to be passive, behind me and moving away. I must under these circumstances move forward, and it is just the way it works. Your point however is a great one for those who have a simular loving relationship to decide just what they would do. usually this has already been established though during the courting period. Fight or flight, and I have insisted that Barb move away from me so I can do my best work as intuitively I know she is moving further and further away from harms way.

Cabrera, 3 run homer against the Mets! I'm saying to you baseball fans out there that we are seeing a Man play in Detroit that will be compared to the legends when he is done, and you should really enjoy this once in a century godsend. He does what no one is suppose to do in a pitcher's ballpark. Truly amazing.

Good Night Folks

BOB  

54

Thank you both. No worries Bob, I know it is just discussion and that you have my best interests at heart. Thanks bud!
I want to clarify I am not being consumed with fear out here. I have had my own critical moment experiences (school shooting survivor amongst them which was pretty darn grisly and terrifying) that have given me a taste of some pretty ugly things. I am no wimp by any means, but as Bob rightly pointed out, getting older and no longer as physically capable as I once was.

Each of us has had life cards dealt to us. Some got a good hand and some did not. Either way we have to play the game with what we have been dealt. I am doing the best I can with what was dealt to me. I like to think that I have done a good job of preparing myself as well as I can for whatever may come given my own personal circumstances. While I do not have a place out of the city as I would like, I am working towards that and in the interim have tried to develop what resources I can. To just up and quit my job to leave the city is simply not possible at this stage of the game. So I have to continue to hope for that gradual systemic  breakdown as opposed to a sudden one, allowing me time to do more to get ready.

My personal predicament of profound deafness adds a degree of social isolation that makes some prep things like community building more difficult for me. I cannot reach out as easily as hearing people do. It takes a tremendous amount of mental strength for a profoundly deaf person like myself to put themselves "out there". What I have found as I have gotten older is that this mental strength diminishes much in the same way that physical strength does. The end result is further social isolation as one slowly withdraws. It's not that I want to do that, it is just hard to summon the strength.

I was married for 15 years, but, as with many folks, that ended in divorce quite a few years ago. With the divorce rate for deaf people at about 90%, I don't have a lot of inclination to give that another whirl.

On the bright side I have scrapped my way up the career ladder to a management position. I don't make big bucks, but have managed to get out of the cycle of under-employment/unemployment that is so prevalent amongst the disabled. In so far as work goes, I am about as secure as a person can be in this crazy economy. On the downside, my hearing loss ensures the many daily interactions that I have take a great deal out of me, to the point that when I come home I often take off my cochlear implant and retreat into silence in order to rest. It is an often unknown fact that hearing impaired people are always tired. Our brains are like computers, running full tilt all the time trying to process not just the scrambled or missed auditory sounds, but also the visual clues that go with them in order to put the sound puzzles together. That takes a tremendous amount of mental energy.

This past spring I finally got my courage up - largely as a result of reading so much on this site about the value of developing local and community building - to trying joining the local Transitions Town group. I attended several meetings, but found I was missing more than three quarters of what was being said. My courage quickly turned to depression, and in all honesty I have been feeling down ever since then.

I am not looking for sympathy, but rather just pointing out a few things that make my particular circumstances "different". If I feel any vulnerability at all it is because of the limitations that hearing loss imposes on me. As always though I have risen to the challenge and I have done about as much as I can do preparation wise, given my life circumstances. Is it enough? I doubt it, if it really hits the fan bad. But I am miles ahead of everyone I know! I garden, I fish, I have even caught, killed and eaten frog legs (tastes just like chicken!). My outdoor life skills are solid, as is my gear. But it still may not be enough. I have to accept that because that is how it is. Lest there be any doubt though, I can assure you, if I go down, I'll go down fighting.

To each unto his own, and on ward ho fellow preppers!

Jan

55

Hey Sirocco,I recommend that you read the book. 
I had a conversation about this book recently with someone I admire greatly.  She thought The Road was just scary and depressing.  I suggested that the book was esentially spiritual. And that it was about what it means to be human
But in our materialistic and competitive world, caring and compassion are not highly valued 
To me the message is that we must look for the compassion within for guidance…
"There is no God, but we are his Prophets".
 

56

This winter I had lots and lots tomato, zucchini, cucumber and other edible plants pre planted/sown on my windowsill and in my greenhouse  and in May I asked my neighbours, if the like to have some, because I have more than I could use.Before, they had no exibles in their garden.
All of my neighbours agreed. Especially because I had lot's of species and storys about those. For Example: I had russian cocktail tomatoes, old fashioned tomates from eastern germany, wild tomatoes and so on. I made paper copies about what are the species, what stories are behind them and how to handle.
One Neighbour planted the edibles in the middle of her purely ornamental garden - and most of them are ornamentel too!! My neighbours enthusiastically tell me now, how good it tasted and how nice it looks in their garden! 
A full success, so to say. For the next year I had to promise these neighbours (and some more too -:))) to give them pre planted edibles, especially those who looked ornamental (Zucchini Albarello, or the wild tomate for example) or those, which are foreign to them or old fashioned (Cucumber Delicatess or Sibiran Cucumber).
 

57

This is why I love this girl Folks. Why I admire women so much, they just spill it out there and if you listen you can't help but love them, learn from them. I have a Jan here in my own home, and don't get me started about my Mom! Quickly though, she was pregnant 15 out of 17 years with two still borns!!! With child on here 6 weeks check up after already having a baby!!! TWICE!! No twins. Then, at 45 had my youngest Brother!!! Ouch! She also was a 4.0 throughout her early life with two years at Michigan State (woman didn't go to college in her day). She was tough and made way tougher because of my Dad who without question was one bad SOB. Sweet Man though but had this crazy in him. OK, gotta go but before I do, Cabrera-MVP, Sherzer-Cy Young and Inglesias-Rookie of the year, all are possible with this years Tigers!!! Has this ever been done? Nope! Lord knows I love BASEBALL.
Peace 
BOB

58

The Fed is afraid to fold progamma QE, realizing the danger that the stock markets will collapse. But on the other hand, the Federal Reserve can not continue this program, because foreign investors have stopped buying government bonds ( http://crisismir.com/analiticheskie-materialy/ekonomika/110-padenie-ekonomicheskix-indeksov-rezultat-gubitelnoj-ekonomicheskoj-politiki.html ). Chichtye popupki government bonds by foreign investors for 4 months are in the negative sector.

59

 

This thread has turned a little dark, but still it is full of the love and light of compassion and caring and that is what will cary us forward.

We are in the middle of renaissance. This site is just one of the many flowers that is starting to bloom. We are not falling from a high but are rising out of darkness. We are not prepping for disaster, but finally creating a world that reflects the inner beauty that humanity is capable of.

The economic “good times” of the past were full of darkness, racism, exploitation, domination, violence, colonialism, ignorance and poverty. Most of it was just hidden from sight. The inner darkness of the past is now manifesting as the material darkness of the present. But it was all still darkness. Now that it is manifest we can transform it.

We must not believe that the heart is easily mislead by wishful thinking and the mind the bearer of true reality. That is the industrial thinking that is perishing. The heart is the true preceptor of reality, the mind is easily confused, subject to the twists and turns of the moment, and is trapped by the limitations of immediate perceptions. The heart can penetrate misleading surface impression and see deeply into the past and future.

Why is it that we celebrate dependence on technology as freedom and dependence on another person as slavery? So now the visually impaired person can shop alone, drive alone, be alone all the time while paying an expensive car payment. Debt and isolation, the hallmarks of our present industrial system, what can be more destructive and corrosive to the human spirit.

We are all dependent on one another, whether we are disabled or not. We are dependent on one another in the human community and we are totally dependent on the natural community around us that makes our lives possible. It is the narcissistic quest for individual power and freedom that are at the core of the current paradigm that withers the human spirit and is destroying the environment. Pick you pet peeve about our current culture, it all stems from that. We are most fulfilled and self actualized when we are in true relationship with our human community and the world around us.

All the fear and darkness expressed in this thread is about the fear of otherness and the fear about how we will behave in a moment of crisis. Will I be able to hold onto my humanity, will they be able to hold onto their humanity. It all comes from the same source. When we all confront the darkness within each of us, we will transform the world. Don't get caught up in the judgement of others, our perceptions are just too limited for that.

Transforming our own darkness is not a heavy burden, but joyful process. It is opening the curtains on a room that has been dark too long. There so much light shining though in this thread, how can we still believe in the darkness. I believe in all of us and that is transforming me and the world.

60

…You are gifted, spiritual and I dig the hell out of you. One small peck though at the thread, I do not yet think the darkest of the night has come though. The dawn is still just a bit off in the distance still.Be Good
BOB