Alice Friedemann: When The Trucks Stop Running

My only possible ray of hope in this regard is Thorium.  I totally agree that Uranium has been essentially mined out already.

Kirk Sorenson and I had a great conversation over what's possible with Thorium a while back.

There are massive quantities of it, and the fuel cycle is not especially dangerous, and it makes not useful bomb materials, and a "runaway event" would lead to reactor plug melting out so the Thorium salt mix could drain into a pool where it would rapidly harden and cool into a benign mass.

What's not to like?

I mean for citizens…the US government turned away from it a long time ago because it was not nearly dangerous enough for their taste.  No useful bomb materials…ugh  how unfun for them.  So they dropped it.

But China is going full bore on the technology as is India (to a lesser degree as I understand it, but still a light year ahead of the US which invented the technology back in the late 1950's)

In the paper, my father assumed it was a joke. That said, either it was a joke, and should have been admitted, or it was fraud and should have been disciplined, or it was systemic fraud for profit, and the whistleblowing institution (jmu) should have been hit as hard as possible in order to protect unjustified incomee
Since they picked option 3, I start to lean toward systemic fraud.
If that’s the case, then I view ANYTHING that comes from JPL as questionable. Doesn’t mean it’s falsified – quite probably most of it isn’t. But it raises doubts about anything they do being falsified: I take everytting they pro.uce with a grain of salt, therefore.
Thirty or a hundred years from now, if we want our science to go forward, we need to throw out the bad data.

Make one, and use it yourself. For myself, I find the 2nd law of thermo to be in force.
Even if it works, though, such a device would be terrible for the environment.
Anyone manages to make a free energy source, without making a free energy sink, is going to rais the surface temperature of the Earth to the point that it exterminates the life, and destroys the machines.
There’s a reason that the seceond law of t_ermo needs to be in effect.
That said, you will spend your money forever trying to get it, and always ALMOST get there, but never quite. The second law of thermo is actually a mathematical limitation. The same principle also shows up, for example, in the mathematical limits of lossless data compression for generic data structures.
Just as there are limits to what you can do with energy transformation, there are also limits as to what you can do with mathematical transformation: you can’t stuff an infinite amount of random information in a finite amount of data space.
In addition to there being a reason the second law of thermo needs to be there, there is also a reason the second law jf thermo IS there.

I have slept on the subject of Paul leVioletts ideas and have two niggles. 
1 Electric charge doesn't behave as he says on the surface of a conductor . Like charges repel and so I don't know how he gets them to separate. 

2 His single line diagrams that integrate gravity with charge are as clear as mud. But perhaps that is due to my ignorance.

As to the second law of thermodynamics. The proof of that, as Asimov pointed out, is Inductive. It is an assumption that has been sacrificed to support the main stream science idea of the Big Bang. The assumption has to be violated in order for  our reality to come into being . Another Kludge.

There are other models beside the Big Bang. Here is Paul Marmets Newtonian physics.

http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/info/author.html

But my favourite  hatchet is still the Quantum Erasure Experiment.  Our Models of Reality are supported by robustly ignoring the Empirical evidence. This is called Willful  Ignorance.   

I am watching a young (to me) Phd Student of Quantum physics try to get on top of his game with the Erasure Experiment.  He is far cleverer than me and is floundering.  He is finding out what its like to step off the edge of the cliff into the Void of our ignorance. It is discombobulating  and exciting. 

check this out.  Sounds promising.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-31/how-new-nuclear-could-lift-renewables-at-a-third-of-hinkley-cost

peak energy is a tough sell when gas prices are at $2 a gallon (NJ prices). 
I don't think the author sold it .

 

But then I lived through the Great Alaskan Earthquake. The second largest earthquake in world history, with a magnitude of 9.2 and lasting 4 minutes 38 seconds.  Life circumstances can change quickly.  If Ms. Friedmann didn't sell you maybe it was because you don't want to buy her message and that's not her responsibility.    If someone shouted from the roof tops the a Titanic was at risk of sinking how many would have listened?  More likely they would have been labeled "conspiracy theorists" and became the butt of jokes.
If only a tiny handful of people heed Ms. Friedmann's message she will have saved lives. IMHO

AKGrannyWGrit

no, I"m not adverse to the idea of peak oil.
In fact, I have a difficult time understanding just how we've been able to go so long on the oil we have!

I'm always like "there apparently are/were OCEANS of black fluid under the earth?!?!" If kind of defies my imagination.

And yet, every time I pull up to the pump, gas comes out. 

pdaly,

This Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oil_reserves) claims that there are approximately 1.5 trillion barrels of proven petroleum reserves. The world currently uses about 30 billion barrels of petroleum per year. If we don't find any more and if we don't increase our usage, we've got about 50 years of proven reserves left. 1.5 trillion barrels is about 56 cubic miles. Assuming we've used about half of all the earth's oil endowment, we originally had around 115 cubic miles of petroleum.

This Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lakes_by_volume) shows Lake Erie (the 18th largest lake by volume) having a volume of 120 cubic miles. Assuming that the estimates are off by a factor of 2, Lake Titicaca in Bolivia/Peru is 15th on the list at 214 cubic miles. Instead of OCEANS, you should be thinking the equivalent of LAKES. That is still a mind boggling amount for most folks.

Unfortunately (or fortunately,) our oil reserves aren't all contained in an easy-to-pump lake. It is distributed in underground pockets of various sizes. The big pockets (super giant oil fields) have lots of interconnecting pockets in a porous substrate (think of a limestone cave as an illustrative example.) The super giants are the easiest to discover and produce the highest EROEI (energy returned on energy invested.) Ghawar in Saudi Arabia is the biggest super giant oil field ever discovered. One estimate had 170 billion barrels originally in place (about 6 1/2 cubic miles of petroleum which is still a good sized lake. The rest are all smaller.) That is about 6 years of current production in a single field. It was discovered in 1948 and has been commercially pumped since 1951. To enhance production, Aramco pumps millions of gallons of sea water per day into the field. Oil is less dense than sea water, so sea water fills the lowest levels of the reservoirs and forces the oil to the upper levels to be pumped out. (Aren't humans clever?)

Because we've literally explored all over the earth already, and we've used all the knowledge obtained by exploring to concentrate efforts in likely locations, the chances of finding another super giant are exceedingly slim. I'd be surprised to hear that another giant oil field was discovered.

M. King Hubbard was a geoscientist who worked for Shell Oil. In the 1950s, he noticed that every petroleum field in existence went through a similar pattern of increasing oil production until about half the recoverable oil was extracted. Then, the fields became increasingly stingy and went into long term decline. In other words, it peaked its production. Using statistical analysis, he proposed that the US (which was the lower 48 at the time) would peak in the early 1970s and begin the long slow decline. That continued until recently when fracking was discovered and implemented rapidly to tight oil formations. (Aren't humans clever?) The graphic shows Texas production, but total US production is similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_oil#/media/File:Texas_Oil_Production_1935-2012.png

Note the peak of production in the early 1970s and the long decline until the mid 2000s decade. Then, around 2010, production increased in hockey stick fashion. Why is that? The only thing that changed was widespread fracking of tight oil formations. This was suddenly seen as profitable as the price of petroleum went up. Petroleum prices peaked in '08, plummeted in '09, then rose again to a plateau from '11 to '14, and since then have plummeted again.

Fracking needs high petroleum prices to be profitable. It is unknown how many operations are profitable at these relatively low prices. Fortunately, the federal reserve has kept borrowing rates suppressed since '09. That drives down all interest rates - including junk bonds. As a result, frackers are able to access cheaper funding to maintain operations. They have to pump as much as they can to get enough money to make payments on their operations and existing debt. It doesn't matter if they are profitable at current prices. If they don't pump to capacity, they go under.

So, is this current day miracle of expanded oil production and cheaper pump prices sustainable? It may be for a while, but eventually geologic limits will announce themselves. there are economic limits in play as well. Fracking needs high oil prices to be profitable (think of that as the floor of a room.) The economy needs low oil prices to maintain itself and actually grow (think of that as the ceiling of a room.) As long as the ceiling is above the floor, there is room for commerce to continue. When oil is too expensive for the consumer or too cheap for the producer, we've got a problem. Can producers make a profit at current prices? Can the economy handle oil prices over $100/barrel? Something has got to give.

Enjoy these low prices while they last. Use them to prepare for the inevitable time when prices increase again. That's my advice.

Grover

Go to Gail Tverberg’s site, Our Finite World. She does a great job of explaining how cheap oil and peak oil are from the same barrel.

That hockey stick of oil production is positive for the economy, right?
So when I see that as proof that everything is fine, I just have to say: “Bull Hockey!”

that's helpful, Grover. 

but on the other hand, since i was a child in the 1970's I've been hearing about how we are going to run out of oil "soon"-ish. And there's a bit of chicken little to this. 

If there's 50 more years of oil (based on current technology), well, that's a pretty long time in technology world. 10 years ago there wasn't even a thing called an iphone.

I believe in a lot of the theory to Peak Prosperity, and that a lot of their advice is good advice even if gas stays at $2 a gallon. But I just don't buy the "end is near" rhetoric. I've heard it too many times. 

 

 

There are those of us that count on clients and customers continuing to spend their money as if tomorrow will be just like today.  If ever they realize the future will not be like the past they might behave differently and then they wouldn't be copiously spending money on "wants".  Sometimes I think "thank god" not everybody "gets it" or I wouldn't be in business.  So by all means buy a big SUV, eat out, keep the cable companies in business and spread that money around on all those wants.
PS - one of the young men who mows my grass was mountain biking this summer and even though he had heard "wear you helmet" ever so many times before with out any problems what-so-ever he respectfully obliged his parents request.  His front tire hit a deep rut and he went flying over the handle bars at great speed breaking his clavicle and scapula in the accident.  No head or brain damage though.   A smart young man who was glad he headed advice "he heard before"!

pdaly,
I agree that we've heard it all before. I remember reading a "Weekly Reader" in the mid '60s about all the coal we have in the US. The article said that we have 525 years of coal left. In the mid 2000 decade, I read that we had 325 years of coal left. In about 40 years, we used up 200 years of coal. Both articles were correct, based on the usage and remaining quantity. As it turns, both articles were wrong. It has to do with projecting exponential growth. People just don't get that.

Frankly, I'm not too worried about oil running out. I think our financial mess will get us first. I concur with "aggrivated" that Gail Tverberg has a good handle on the narrative. I tried to paraphrase her work with my floor and ceiling analogy.

You noted that 50 years is a long time in the technology world. I hope you can see from my first paragraph in this response that 50 years of oil really isn't going to happen. It is a number based on remaining quantity and current usage. The remaining quantity is a "best guess" (that is likely inflated) and the daily usage will change over time. Also, simple equations like that assume that each unit is just as good as every other unit. We should be talking about net oil energy rather than barrels in the ground. It takes energy to drill, pump, ship to the refinery, refine, then ship the gasoline to your gas station. Also, governments tax it every step of the way. Let's not ignore all the environmental and infrastructure damage that will have to be repaired someday in the future.

As an example, look at the Peak Prosperity Tree Logo. Assume that it is a real tree that you stumbled across. It is laden with perfectly identical fruit. Is all the fruit equivalent? You can reach up and pick the low hanging fruit easily. Higher up fruit requires a step ladder. The fruit at the top requires a much taller ladder, but you have to lace it through all the branches. Not all identical fruit has the same net energy.

To be honest, my estimated quantity of oil remaining didn't include tar sands, oil shale, shale oil, or other unconventional sources. (Some experts say that conventional oil is only 30% of the total.) None of the unconventionals have the same net energy as conventional oil. We've already pumped oil from deep water, in the arctic, and in tight formations that require fracking and other unconventional techniques. If we've really got as much oil left as they claim, why wouldn't these companies just focus their efforts on the low hanging fruit that is far more profitable?

Grover

This is really nice… It is very true, as far as we give importance to design our house interiors, we should also look after designing driveways which connect streets to our home and gives a professional look.

It’s not time that wears out cars, it’s use. There will be little savings from self-driving cars. They’ll wear out proportionally faster based on miles driven.

Alice touched on a concept that has been little explored: Energy Return On Materials Invested. Renewable energy systems are more energy intense and material intense than fossil fuel energy systems.

I always purchase as many ‘used’ things as possible because of the embedded energy saved. As energy costs increase in the future this factor will become more apparent. Recently purchased a 2004 Prius with low miles. My understanding is that the embedded energy for hybrid and electrics is a big offset against the improved ‘burn rate’ of fossil fuels they have, so keeping one on the road is a much better use of energy.
Energy returned on materials invested is a different idea than embedded energy. I would like to hear more about it. Mr. Google is clueless.

Grover,
The inhabitants of Easter Island got to the island in deep water canoes. They thrived for many years by fishing in deep water canoes. When the trees of Easter Island were eventually all harvested to build new deep water canoes and those canoes wore out, the culture collapsed.
Many think that electricity and the fragility of its distribution is the weak link in the present world, others cite oil. Since the financial system is a result of energy flows, it is like the electrical grid, not a primary source of our prosperity. Distributions however (or flows) are critical. Like basic machines they convert primary energy into usable forms. Will the Achilles heel of our present civilization turn out to be a primary energy source or a distribution problem? What is your thought on this?

aggrivated wrote:
Grover, The inhabitants of Easter Island got to the island in deep water canoes. They thrived for many years by fishing in deep water canoes. When the trees of Easter Island were eventually all harvested to build new deep water canoes and those canoes wore out, the culture collapsed.
aggrivated, Interesting. I always thought the inhabitants cut their trees in order to move and erect their statues. Once the trees were all gone, they perished. I never considered that the ancestors likely used ocean going canoes to get to the island. Perhaps, over time, they lost the cultural memory to allow them to escape while they had the chance. Perhaps they had other motives for remaining.
aggrivated wrote:
Many think that electricity and the fragility of its distribution is the weak link in the present world, others cite oil. Since the financial system is a result of energy flows, it is like the electrical grid, not a primary source of our prosperity. Distributions however (or flows) are critical. Like basic machines they convert primary energy into usable forms. Will the Achilles heel of our present civilization turn out to be a primary energy source or a distribution problem? What is your thought on this?
That's a complicated issue. If I had to choose between a source or distribution problem, I suspect a distribution problem would be the Achilles' heel. We'll never pump the last drop of oil. By the time we get to that point, the economy will have faltered. The distribution system needs a sound economy to provide incentives for work to be accomplished. (How long would you continue to work at a job you hated if the monetary incentive disappeared?) This picture, from Wikipedia, shows a catenary formed by a chain. If any of the links break, the chain fails. That to me is a simple visual for our situation. We have many interconnected links (energy sources, energy distribution, finance, government, environment, Just-in-time logistics, etc.) If any of these links break, the chain fails. It really doesn't matter which link breaks first. The end result is the same. Our system rewards quarterly economic performance, not resilience. Why have a warehouse with lots of spare parts that soak up profit when any part can be flown in the next day? Many of the individual links are under considerable stress. Which one will break first? When will it happen? I really don't know the answer, but I'm sure the end result will look the same. In 2005, with the housing bubble expanding, I was sure we'd have a financial comeuppance at any day. The system limped along for another 3 years. If it weren't for everyone's heroes, Ben Bernanke and Hank Paulson , the system would have failed then. Thanks to their efforts, the banks got bailed out and are now too big to bail. Look at the political animosity in the USA. Hillary won the popular vote, but Trump won the electoral vote. A sizable minority would do almost anything to make Trump fail, even if it destroys our country. I've actually lost what I considered a dear friendship because I said that Hillary belongs in jail. Look at all our vulnerabilities to terrorist attacks. Look at all the surreptitious spying by every G20 government. Look at the plight of the lowly bumblebee. They are all links that are being stressed. There are many more. Which one will break the chain? Since you mentioned Easter Island, I'm wondering if people will actually try to escape the self-cleaning ovens that our cities will become once the food trucks stop coming. I'm expecting that most will consider it a temporary condition and will trust the government assurances to remain calm. Just like on Easter Island, these people won't try to escape until they have used up their critical resources. They won't have trees to cut to make canoes and they wouldn't know how to do it without Youtube instructions. Grover