Some authorities are either disregarding this spread or stating its not driving the spread. In itself , I would probably agree that most people , MOST, people are not getting this fro aerosol. However, asymptomatic spread is probably very minimal in comparison to symptomatic - However, when you account that asymptomatic time with the illness and time after resolving that you can spread this - if its 10% as infective but you spend 10 times as long in the phase, its an issue… So ,though i agree with some of what the authorities are saying, in total its a factor in the spread… and if you are around people not coughing… you believe you are safe. which puts your defenses down…
The Food and Grocer Industry put out a very well written summary of the challenges their businesses are going to face in this, with some common sense recommendations for what to do.
https://www.fmi.org/docs/default-source/food-safety/pandemic-planning-final-2-28-20_pdf.pdf?sfvrsn=fd60124a_2
Good for the employee too, to see how a business should be reacting and know when your company isn’t.
Will this effect testing/treatment ?
https://fortune.com/2020/03/04/coronavirus-mutating-second-strain-covid-19-wuhan-china/
Note: I’ve only skimmed this article and haven’t yet read the study on which it is based. The article is from a preparedness author and newsletter I’m subscribe to which is pretty good overall.
Mutated COVID-19 is 1,000 Times More Potent
“Researchers say there are now two types of the same coronavirus infecting people and 70% of those infected have caught the more aggressive form which is 1,000 times more potent that the original stain.”
https://readynutrition.com/resources/breaking-mutated-covid-19-is-1000-times-more-potent_04032020/
My 85 y.o. husband saw his geriatrician for routine appt today. This MD told him that the facility (huge hospital w multiple clinics and attached medical school) has not issued any advisories as far as he knows (he is a full time and an asst prof at the med school). Pretty alarming. Will try to avoid this and other hospitals at all costs!
VickieT, I didn’t see your post on the mutated strains of coronavirus until after I had posted a similar article based on the same study. Ha! You beat me by about 3 minutes. 
Great minds, and all that–right?
Good work. It will be interesting to see how it com pares with actual figures.
FWIW, I used the actual figures as of yesterday for the four smallest countries in Europe (Andorra, Lichtenstein, Monaco and San Marino) to estimate the number of infections in Europe. I chose them because in very small countries, everything gets noticed and deaths and symptomatic cases are likely to be seen and reported accurately. Based on those figures of 13 confirmed cases for the four countries who have a total population of only 186,000, I extrapolated that to estimate that there are over 50,000 actual cases in wider Europe right now.
Fortune skimmed the top, where the article you posted gives more information.
Yes, the WHO seems to be basing much of their guidance on the fact that China appears to have slowed the pace of spread down…which you can’t do with the flu. But then Mike went on to say that no attempt has ever been made to slow down the spread of flu because we have vaccines for it and maybe something about knowing what it does. The entire group seems to think in black and white terms, or at least thinks the general population does so they have to speak that way. It is crazy to me that they don’t want to use the word ‘pandemic’ because then countries will cease attempts at containment. No, we can pat our heads and rub our bellies at the same time. Countries can work at both containment and maintenance simultaneously. Maybe in some countries they must choose one or the other, but for many countries a combination would make the most sense for a period of time.
Since i’m basically going through that since last sunday; i’ll share my experience. Regardless of whether people believe i have covid or not; i’m still locked in my house with some kind of serious illness, so the experience is still valid.
I have a balcony, on which i smoke. I only smoke outside so the inside of my house stays pristine. Getting some fresh air is important, as well as keeping up bad habits such as smoking as long as you can. Reduce it, sure, i went to half the amount i usually smoke, but trust me. You will need to spread out the hurt (and i was keeping track, smoking more/less changed nothing about the frequency, timing or severity of my symptoms). I’ve been preparing myself mentally and morally for nearly a month and when i actually got the disease it still cracked me like an egg. But i’d still only step outside near my house where i can be sure i won’t infect anybody, for my own morale’s sake. I really dont wanna infect anybody because i was bored. That’s also why i’ve kept smoking on the balcony because it was 5c outside and my neighbours wont go outside till it’s warm again.
The hard part is mood swings, confusion, dizzyness. Sometimes you simply cannot think. You won’t have (full) control of your mind while thinking you’re fine at times. But; as opposed to black outs with alcohol, to you the timeline seems continuous. Last Friday when i came back from the overnight doctors, i thought i had run a red light and ended up on the other side of the road (with my bicycle).
I did, but only 2 days later did i remember - the traffic situation there had changed a while ago (Wilhelmina park Tilburg) and not only did i run a red light without noticing until i was past, i had been already riding on the wrong side of the road for several hundred meters! And i ride that road every week/2 weeks to visit my mother so i know it very well.
It’s not that i didn’t have those memories for the last 2 days - But for 2 whole days, that whole situation “made sense” to me. In my minds eye, i had done nothing wrong. Having come to my senses now, i notice there’s alot of “black spots” in my visually based memory… Moments where time and space itself seem to warp together rather then continue in a smooth line.
If that happens… you just have to let it go. Try to just stay put and ride it out. It’s only a problem if you move. But for morale it’s really bad because you realize there just is no control over this. Then sometimes your lungs burn and there’s just only getting through that as well. Add chest muscle pains on top of the burning lungs And shortness of breath and it can feel really really bad at times.
The best advice i can give is to follow your mind until you get stressed; then do something silly and different. I’m a gamer at heart so if i wanna game i game. (and honestly i suggest you start; there is a giant world out there with something for everybody :D). Getting through this is priority 1 so everything and everybody else can just fuck off for the time being. I really believe those people you see drop in the streets or when they go to sit down is because they’re doing something they shouldn’t (being active when they should rest and resting when they should be active) and are forcing their bodies to do something other then fight the infection.
But that also opens the door to despair. Because you will still feel bad; even while doing what you love, cause that’s disease. That’s why it’s important when you reach that point to just do something else. When you feel bad it’s important to just sit tight, hang on, focus on fighting it and recover your spirits in the moments it aint so bad. Trust me you start appreciating life again real fucking quick. But afterwards, in the easier moments, just keep doing what you love best as you can and keep remembering why you love it in the first place (and again if it’s some outdoor activity there’s probably a game for that).
One thing that’s important to have amongst your foodstock is sweets! Candy and such. Because you’re basically on rations the moment you’re locked inside (sure, deliveries still work… for now) so your meal variety will be veeeeeeery boring. And alot of people like to eat. Now sure i eat alot of sugar and carbs anyway (fuel for the fight) But sometimes you just hit a low. That’s when you pop a candy like it’s drugs, cause it is.
Drugs are dangerous, sure, until there’s a legitimate use. Keep in mind that a hot cup of tea, coffee, or literally just biting on a spoon full of sugar (to make the medicine go down) will give you an instant happyness boost. Take it from somebody who was suicidal for 25 years. Sometimes it’s all the difference in the world.
Everything else is just stopping boredom. Honestly; aside from the rampage i went on while trying to relay data, i have enjoyed myself tremendously with the memes of 2020. Truely; it’s the dankest year in a decade already. And we’re only in MARCH!. Luckily the mood swings included euphoria as well; hitting that while watching comedy was… not entirely unpleasant. And hey, my nose has never been clearer! It’s been cold, wet, damp weather outside for weeks, i go inside/outside/inside from 19c to 3c to 19c (water freezes at 0C) and i’ve only had to blow my nose twice; yesterday and today. If you stay within the mild case parameters i’d even recommend this over having the cold or the flu! I hate a stuffy nose. Gotta take the little things where you can get em.
But otherwise just keeping up with the virus news is a cure for boredom in itself, especially now that things are moving so fast (and you’re no longer of the crowd that thinks it’ll be fine, not when yer in isolation). It has helped me fight the disease as well, as i know a lot about it now.
It has also helped me protect people, as long before i developed the diarrhea symptom, i taped off my vents (because i live in an apartment building with a bum ventilation system and i can hear the plastic being sucked in and out so many times a day). Did that the moment i learned it was probably aerosolized, and i only learned that cause i kept up with the news. That’s saved the people above/below me their lives, or at least a lot of trouble, even if they’ll never know. Because the doctors here sure as shit don’t know this yet and are not taking any precautions based on that! I’ve already saved more lives then the inevitable deaths they’ve already caused.
Knowing stuff like that helps keep you going. Knowing it can be beat, knowing you did the right thing, even if nobody else believes so. Knowing you are prepared for the worst, and trusting you can figure your way out of even worse.
This virus is no mystery. Sure, we don’t know all the effects. I found new symptoms myself after a few days: Chills, overly sweaty palms, mood swings. And that might just be because of a mutation specific to me, even that i don’t know. But what i do know is we have been dealing with viruses for a long long time, and even if we don’t remember, our bodies do. If you’re willing to listen to yourself, then there’s no mystery.
And really the only thing that was dangerous about it was when my heart weakened. My fingertips started tingling, which moved into my fingers, jumped into my palm then shot up my lower arm and no matter how fast i was breathing i wasn’t getting any oxygen. That was very scary too. Luckily i don’t panic and i immediately started hyperventilating - if i can’t get enough oxygen, i’ll just suck in more! Of course the paramedics all claimed it was the other way around, fuck em. I’d like to see them survive the same situation. Having to put in the effort of expanding my lungs and then contracting them rapidly (and honestly just sheer aggression towards careless “professionals”) is what kept my heart going until it subsided.
Since then i’ve gone with a “dance routine” therapy - whenever my fingertips start tingling again (on Both hands, otherwise this damn virus is trying to gaslight me into moving when i should be resting, because my left hand starts tingling all the time but my right only starts when i’m having an actual heart slowdown) i start up some russian hardbass (or any other dance music with a relatively fast and consistant beat will do) and just bounce to the music for an hour. Torso+arms minimum, legs optional (dizzyness can hit at the same time you see) After 45 minutes the tingling recedes to the tops of my fingers and after 55 minutes it’s on the tips only. That’s happened 9 times, so it’s no coincidence. There’s been 2 times where the feeling reached as far as my palms (so bad times ahead); but dancing (far) more aggressively made it recede back into my fingers. My body is screaming at me that if that feeling hits my chest, i’m dead meat. So forgive me for stopping the science experiment right there :D.
And before anybody says it’s in your head: i have a blood ox pulse meter that i can put on my finger - as many will know them. I had it on my left hand and it could not find a reading for well over a minute. The little meter that shows your live heartbeat was going up and down a bit - it was detecting something - but the pulse was too weak to give a readout on the machine. On my right hand index finger which has a stronger pulse it could only find a PI% of 0.6 after half a minute (while just sitting here typing this feeling normal it gives me a reading of 7,6% in 8 seconds). PI% means perfusion index; measures how strong the pulse at that location as i understand it.
It really is about keeping your heart going. Exert when you have to. Rest when you need to. I’ve had at least 3 times where i have had a good nights sleep for 8 hours, was up for 7, suddenly became Very sleepy, immediately went to bed, slept another 8 hours. I’ve got 4 sleeping disorders, each of them focused on keeping me awake, with a 5th insomnia probably caused by the disease too, so there is no way in hell i can sleep for 8 hours after having been awake for only 7. Just last September i had 4 days back to back consisting of 30,32,36 and 32 hours. My internal clock lost nearly a week of time because the days where so long.
Everything else hurts and is very annoying… but can’t get ya. Keep that in mind and your morale will last longer.
Once the tingling and fatigue as i described above start happening; you progressed to a Severe case and you should seek help IMMEDIATELY. I did so as well; but nobody helped me because i wasn’t nice about them assuming i was having an autistic panic attack and i should calm down when the fast breathing/adrenaline was all that was keeping me alive. Not joking about any part of that. You could very well be on your own even when society still functions. Preparing for those situations now (as we prepare for the worst and hope for the best) will keep your morale up as your confidence is kept up, while actually keeping you alive as well.
But i truly believe, having gone through all of this now (i’m starting to get normal readings again of 60 bpm when sitting still; as opposed to an elevated 75-90 at rest for the last 1 1/2 weeks, something i should’ve also noticed sooner instead of only today when my BPM dropped down to 60 out of nowhere and i felt better (also haven’t felt any attacks come on since)) that if you can >prevent yourself from going critical< this disease could have a CFR of less then 1%.
Everything i’ve experienced tells me this is a veeeeery slow burning virus. Makes sense as a bioweapon; the longer it remains undetected the better the spread. But that is also it’s weakness. If you find it early and treat it early by supporting your body’s natural functions, the only ones who are really at risk are people with (hidden) underlying conditions; as well as those with freak mutations that makes them just drop dead on the spot. Luckily, from as far as we know, that’s so fast you won’t ever have to worry about it. As far as deaths go i’ll take it over cancer.
3 ibuprofen, 4 paracetamol, 1 multivitamin and a extra 250g+ vitamin C is basically my daily regimen, still. I’m gonna keep that up for another week for sure too. I’ve already had multiple times where i thought i was on the mend, only to have another heart attack start minutes later. When i started taking this (2 ibuprofen when getting up, 1 8 hours later to keep up a high dose) i felt markedly better in a day - though it didn’t stop any of the attacks so the drugs alone definitely aren’t enough.
But above all. Keep a fighting spirit. You know what i’ve done on a regular basis? Cough up some of the mucus in my lungs, but instead of spitting, swallowing it so it’d go into my stomach acid and saying out loud “Have fun burning you little bastards!”. I know the virus couldn’t possibly understand that or be aware. But it sure makes me feel better!
This is a war against an alien race that not only has mastered intergalactic spaceflight but also the technology to shrink the space between atoms - causing them to be smaller then even bacteria. They think they can get me by invading my very cells?! I’m not locked in here with them! THEY ARE LOCKED IN HERE WITH ME!!!
Again. Silly, i know. But as i said. When morale drops; just do something out of the ordinary that puts everything back in perspective. I’d put a laugh and a smile in my tool box next to my pulse ox and blood pressure meters any day.
Coronavirus in Italy fills hospital beds and turns doctors into patients
"One infectious-disease doctor said coronavirus had hit “like a tsunami” at his hospital, where more than 100 out of 120 people admitted with the virus have also developed pneumonia. "
"Another hospital nearby is facing staff shortages as doctors have become patients.
Doctors, virologists and health-care officials on the front line of Italy’s battle against coronavirus, in more than a dozen interviews, described a health-care system stretched to its limits — a situation other countries may face as the virus spreads. "
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/coronavirus-in-italy-fills-hospital-beds-and-turns-doctors-into-patients/ar-BB10HIRn?ocid=spartanntp
Free and available to all (residents or nonresidents) coronavirus testing for up to 384 people/test per day, per site. Safer for all concerned, less risk of exposure and infection to health care workers and others. Process: Drive-up and stay in the car, complete a questionnaire, doctor and nurses on site take nasal and throat swab samples, test results are available in three days.
South Korea pioneers coronavirus drive-through testing station
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/asia/coronavirus-drive-through-south-korea-hnk-intl/index.html
We and others out in the MSM have been arguing about whether the CFR is 1 or 2, or now 3.4 as the CDC says but that’s not the important number. What is going to be critical is how many people end up in an ICU.
You can have millions with mild symptoms, but if as Chris has pointed out, your hospitals get swamped, then your death rate climbs because fewer and fewer people get treatment. That’s why IMO using the Death Princess’ numbers are flawed. Everyone who got ill, got first class medical treatment from the start. Not 5 days after you need it because you have no insurance and can’t pay the hospital bill.
Its one thing to have Grandmother get ill, go to the hospital for care and die there, its a whole different thing if Grandmother lays in your extra bedroom, coughing up her lungs, and then dies in your bed.
More and more home deaths, even a small fractional increase is going to freak people out. Panic buying will be the least of worries as people refuse to go to work, or let their children attend school.
“As with the cluster in Washington state, virologists believe the virus had been spreading in northern Italy for weeks before anyone realized.”
I think i have got it as well. That is in the Netherlands. But i keep a very high level of vitamine D and i am on a regime of vitamine C 1000 milligram time released every 3 hours. It is already getting better.
I also take Magnesium, Brazil nuts for Selenium, multivitamin for the rest of it.
So apparently Andrew Cuomo had a news conference this morning, where he announced the tests for 2 people from Oneida County being tested for COVID-19 came back negative: “Cuomo Says Coronavirus Tests In Oneida County Are Negative”. I’m glad the results came back negative; I just wish I had confidence the test results were trustworthy.
Sager, it’s good to hear that you find yourself in a positive situation. I wish you well! I can’t believe your son is already 3; that’s such a great age!
And thanks for your advice on not forgetting to live.
Amen. Nobody seems to get 2% to 20% of the population going to the ICU is gonna suck.
Thank you for your post and inspiration. Take good care and stay well.
Team PP… I wish folks would read stuff before they just go and post it… this website ends up being a cesspool of information if you don’t. First off, this article is poorly written, and the case being made is actually this;
“The combined findings from the three studies indicate that because of the HIV-like mutations, its ability to bind with human cells could be as much as 1,000 times more potent than the initial SARS virus of 2003."
It’s not comparing two strains of this new virus to each other… it’s comparing it to SARS. I don’t even know what, “potent” means but its not a scientific term. Chris in his presentation yesterday took the time to show us a chart of the many mutations already in play for this virus… and there are many, and this is expected. The article mentioned in this thread twice adds absolutely nothing of value to the conversation. Everyone here needs to grow their strengths as critical thinkers… read stuff before you post it and have some idea of why it will add value to the conversation please.
This is from a Dr. with high credentials from Sloan Kettering. It is circulating on the internet as though it is undeniable, but it seems like questionable math and spun statistics. Would like an opinion from anyone on PP cause I came away confused.
https://www.truehealthinitiative.org/news2019/am-i-going-to-get-the-coronavirus-and-die/J. Ted Gerstle, MDChief, Pediatric Surgery ServiceDepartment of SurgeryMemorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center
The article is really not technical… more philosophical in nature. It is like many articles that downplay the risk by comparing it to the more common flu. Whatever… we know that unlike flu, this thing will almost certainly overwhelm our medical system, such that treatment won’t be available to many who need serious intervention. It is this vision that keeps me focused on learning about and implementing every means possible to keep my immune system at it’s best. Last night I was watching YouTube videos of Paul Stamets, the mycologist behind the Host Defense brand. I am learning so much… I had no idea the power of mushrooms like Agarikon to rid humans of viruses and cancers. I just learned today, on these boards, that coconut oil should be added to my supplements. Amazing.
I will be as careful as I can to not expose myself, but I sleep well knowing that I am doing all that I can.