2 zoomed in pictures…
given that these are pictures taken from Trump’s pole position, it is clear that, even if that flag is raised by about 2m to reach well above Trump’s position, no bullets from any of these windows would have made it through…
@kincses-zsolt @howdoiknowthisinfo
Had a talk with AI about my favourite cartridge from that spreadsheet. First I got data from a ballistic calculator then I just asked ChatGPT what would the crack-thump time be from a mic 155 yards away. @greg_n Notice the numbers from that 75 grains cartridge… About the 7 ft distance, I plotted a line from Crooks-Comperatore and beyond… then got the distance from Trump’s trajectory to that trajectory (image below). There’s also 70 grains version and another 77 that are great candidates also.
Link for the ballistic data - 75 grains
Link for the ballistic data - 62 grains
Summary of the conversation:
Crack-Thump Time Differences by Bullet and Distance
Hornady 75 grain BTHP T2 TAP Precision:
- 0 feet (direct at mic): 223 milliseconds
- 2 feet from mic: 221 milliseconds
- 7 feet from mic: 217 milliseconds
Hornady 62 grain TAP Barrier:
- 0 feet (direct at mic): 233 milliseconds
- 2 feet from mic: 231 milliseconds
- 7 feet from mic: 227 milliseconds
Each calculation takes into account the bullet’s speed at 155 yards and the respective delay caused by the sound traveling different distances to the microphone.
Below only the relevant parts, for brevity…
@bigtim @sgt-raven Do you gentlemen agree he had a 3" sight height?.
I have this set of data that I would like to ask questions about.Drag Function: G1
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.355
Bullet Weight: 75 gr
Initial Velocity: 2752 fps
Sight Height : 3 in
Shooting Angle: 0° Wind Speed: 9 mph
Wind Angle: 90°
Zero Range: 100 yd
Chart Range: 500 yd
Maximum Range: 5036 yd
Step Size: 5 yd
** Corrected For Atmosphere**
Adjusted BC: 0.38
Altitude: 0 ft
Barometric Pressure: 29.92 Hg
Temperature: 93° F
Relative Humidity: 50%
Speed of Sound: 1152 fps
Range Elevation Elevation Elevation Windage Windage Windage Time Energy Vel[x+y]
(yd) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (in) (MOA) (MIL) (s) (ft.lbf) (ft/s)
0 -3.00 0.00 0.00 0.03 0.00 0.00 0.00 1261 2752
this is the line for 155 yards - 155 -0.65 0.40 0.12 1.98 1.22 0.35 0.18 954 2393. It gives 0.18 seconds of Time. This is the time from the muzzle to the trajectory’s point at 155 yards, considering the zero sighted for the optic on the rifle.
Ok. considering this info, and that at the 155 yards distance there is a microphone recording ambient sound, and that we hear a crack-thump of the rifle being fired, how much distance would there be between the crack and the thump, in seconds (or hundreths or milliseconds). Please consider 2 alternate answers, one considering that the bullet passes 2 feet away from the microphone, and the other answer, as you choose best, with or without the mic-bullet distance at 155 yards.
### Assumptions:
** Rifle is 155 yards (465 feet) away from the microphone.*
** Speed of sound is 1152 fps.*
** Bullet speed at 155 yards is 2393 fps.*
** We are calculating the time delay based on two bullet-microphone distances: 2 feet and direct without distance consideration.*
Case 1: Bullet passing 2 feet from the microphone
- Time for the bullet to reach 155 yards: Already given as 0.18 seconds.
- Crack (bullet shockwave): The crack occurs almost instantaneously when the bullet passes 2 feet from the microphone, but sound still takes a tiny bit of time to cover the 2-foot distance. This time is:Timecrack=2 feet1152 fps≈0.00174 seconds(≈1.74 milliseconds).\text{Time}_{\text{crack}} = \frac{2 \text{ feet}}{1152 \text{ fps}} \approx 0.00174 \text{ seconds} (\approx 1.74 \text{ milliseconds}).Timecrack=1152 fps2 feet≈0.00174 seconds(≈1.74 milliseconds).
- Thump (rifle report): The time for the rifle report (thump) to reach the microphone is the distance from the rifle (465 feet) divided by the speed of sound (1152 fps):Timethump=465 feet1152 fps≈0.403 seconds.\text{Time}_{\text{thump}} = \frac{465 \text{ feet}}{1152 \text{ fps}} \approx 0.403 \text{ seconds}.Timethump=1152 fps465 feet≈0.403 seconds.
- **Total time difference (crack-thump):**Timecrack-thump=Timethump−(Timebullet travel+Timecrack)\text{Time}{\text{crack-thump}} = \text{Time}{\text{thump}} - (\text{Time}{\text{bullet travel}} + \text{Time}{\text{crack}})Timecrack-thump=Timethump−(Timebullet travel+Timecrack) Timecrack-thump=0.403−(0.18+0.00174)≈0.221 seconds (or 221 milliseconds).\text{Time}_{\text{crack-thump}} = 0.403 - (0.18 + 0.00174) \approx 0.221 \text{ seconds} \ (\text{or } 221 \text{ milliseconds}).Timecrack-thump=0.403−(0.18+0.00174)≈0.221 seconds (or 221 milliseconds).
Case 2: Ignoring the 2-foot mic distance (bullet passes directly at mic)
- Time for bullet to reach 155 yards: Still 0.18 seconds.
- Crack (bullet shockwave): No additional delay; the shockwave is heard essentially instantly at 0.18 seconds.
- Thump (rifle report): Same as before, 0.403 seconds.
- **Total time difference (crack-thump):**Timecrack-thump=0.403−0.18=0.223 seconds (or 223 milliseconds).\text{Time}_{\text{crack-thump}} = 0.403 - 0.18 = 0.223 \text{ seconds} \ (\text{or } 223 \text{ milliseconds}).Timecrack-thump=0.403−0.18=0.223 seconds (or 223 milliseconds).
Final Answer:
- Case 1 (2 feet from mic): The time difference between the crack and thump is approximately 221 milliseconds.
- Case 2 (ignoring mic distance): The time difference between the crack and thump is approximately 223 milliseconds.
What if the distance from mic to bullet was of 7 feet?
** The time difference between the crack (shockwave of the bullet passing the mic) and the thump (sound of the rifle report) would be approximately 217 milliseconds when the bullet is 7 feet away from the microphone.*
if you’re on MS Windows use the built in “Snipping Tool”. Otherwise I can recommend “Snagit”. Just zoom into the picture/video as much as you like, use above tools to make a cut out of the part you want, copy it and just paste it in here.
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Yep… Could’ve tried 15-16,view was blocked by jcb’s arm, so moved 1-2 to the right and then opened fire…
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under the assumption that the shots were fired by crooks…
I still find it amazing that the evidence photos of the fast buriers of information do not show any magazine(s), ammunition boxes, not even some food or a bottle of water or alike from the backpack…
if crooks fired the 5 shots, I think he had only 5 rounds in the magazine: in his rapid fire mode, 5 shots were fired in under a second, then there was a pause of about 1 second before shot 9 came in and interrupted whatever he was doing on that roof…
bullet 9 did not stop the rapid fire burst, as it had stopped already, and bullet 9 did not injure him significantly, as he was still more or less physically intact to sit upright on the roof, face the crowd to his right and point the rifle at them…
and in my view of the following picture, the stock of his rifle is still intact while pointing it at the crowd, moments before swallowing bullet 10:
the damaged stock has very sharp edges and I would be very surprised if he kept these sharp edges so close to his face:
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I simply zoom in on whatever picture and then use the windows screen grab tool by holding down the [shift] and [windows] key and then pressing the [s]-key.
this will darken the screen and turn the mouse pointer into a cross with which you can identify a rectangle: you go to any of the corners of the rectangle area you want to grab, hold the main mouse button down (left mouse button for most users), drag your mouse to the diagonally opposite corner, release the mouse button, et voila: that rectangle has been copied to your clipboard…
then you go to the application you want to paste the image into, and you are done…
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(I’ll have not so much time today. But I have to check my calculations, since I added up the segment’s length. I must check the accuracy.)
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Amazing, there’s always something new to learn 
After all this years I have never come across this option. Thanks for letting me know!
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I got the following calculation for distance.
Remark: for the Mach angle we need instantaneous speed.
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Hi Rough_Country_Gypsy,
I found an old picture from you:
This seems like a very good photo to verify this topic, because you can clearly see the notches and you don’t have two fences…
So, I aligned my CAD system exactly in the same perspective as your camera and superposed your picture and everything matches up perfectly!
If you have more pictures, I would be glad to verify.
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Thank you. I had no idea of this feature. See if this is any better…
YES!!! Thank you! It’s still not as clear as on my computer but you can now clearly see the top wire"V" I was referencing. That section is directly in line with Trump’s podium and window 3. Sorry, I’m just not too computer-savvy. I’ll redo the original post.
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I downloaded the photo you shared @roger-knight with the cutout fence notches and yellow arrow. I’ve added the red arrow to point out the “V” shaped top wire. It’s the section of the fence where the top wire forms a prominent “V”. The notched-out fence is clearly in the section to the left of it.
What is clear if zoomed in is the section of fence that forms the top wire “V”. That’s the section that’s directly in line with Trump’s podium and window 3. You’re off by one section of the fence. Where the fence notches are located, they don’t line up with any of the windows or vents.
as long as you’re drone savvy we’re all more than happy 
Feel free to ask if you have any computer related questions. I’m sure the forum here is willing to help.
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No, it doesn’t, Roger. Here’s another picture I took from an angle further west (1st pic). The notches are one section of fence to the east and don’t line up with the podium.
Here’s where I’m “STILL” at…
100% out on the window.
100% out on the vent. Mostly because the people working so hard to prove the vent couldn’t make it work and jumped immediately to the window (which is a much worse option).
I’ll wait for @howdoiknowthisinfo to produce the evidence for his 2nd shooter theory, but as of now, I still have Crooks as the sole gunman with assistance in planning and access. The only other evidence of a 2nd shooter is the sound analysis, which is subject in a court of law at best. Everything else is speculation with no hard evidence.
The last two things setting my BS meter off are (A) where the tenth shot came from and (B) where the backpack came from. I’ll set those out until the entire 2nd shooter hypothesis is concluded.
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@daniloraf Thank you for compiling such a comprehensive table of ammo data!
By my calculations, using a muzzle to mic distance of 153 yards, the average velocity should be between 2465 and 2585 fps, which is 38 fps higher than the range you used.
I added a column to your table for average velocity, sorted the table by average velocity and then filtered it to show just those rows in the range of interest.
I was hoping to see something here that had a Pkg. Qty. of 50, but no luck with that. The mean of my calculated range is 2525 fps. Your favorite candidate is 30 above that but still seems perfectly reasonable.
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I have checked my calculations.
The error is insignificant (4E-10 fps).
Explanation: The total might be saturated when we add up a lot of numbers. So I used subtotals of subtotal. (Something like when the bank pays interest but you cannot have less than 1 cent.)
Who established that shot 10 was subsonic? Look at the DJStew video which was close to line of fire; it appears that the crack arrived at 5:09.06:
I think I hear crack-boom. When I filter out high frequencies, I see a boom at 5:09.205 and a reflection of the boom off of building 6 at 5:09.245:
Others have nice headphones and are good at discerning what they hear. Is this what you hear? If the initial sound was instead the boom, the echo off the building wouldn’t be so far out and bigger than the initial sound (in this frequency band). I think this has to be crack-boom-echo. And a normal-speed bullet.
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Similar to Trumps ear and the bleachers, this time we have window 3 and the notches in the fence. These are two points clearly defined in space.
You can take any picture or video and the trajectory never changes. So similar to the first picture superposed with my CAD I could verify this picture to be in the same line as the shot.
I am able to exaclty align the picture and the direction of the roof lines show that the camera was at the left side viewing building 6 with a strong angle. Therefore it is correct that the shots comes from the right side.
But this picture is confusing because it is taken from an angle and the ground levels are not the same. Before the discussion gets heated up, maybe you have another picture, or you said you made a video of the fence?
I will do a complete different approch to prove that the notches are in line with the bullet line.
Please give me some more time… 
