Audio Analysis Is Most Consistent Two Shooters At Trump Rally

[intolerance]

Do you trust the source of the that info.

Yes. The fact that you have a problem with it, is…well…a personal problem. I can’t help you with personal issues, sorry.

Remember, it is very likely the same source that stated he carried the 5’ ladder to the site.

And people reported van, explosives, all kinds of shit that we don’t have info about, yet people cling onto that as being true. Oh well, you guys cherry pick, I will too.

It doesn’t matter a whole lot difference between 223/556,

Uhhhhhh yeah buddy it does matter. 5.56 bullet will do more damage.

as long as we assume the same rifle fired all 8 shots…

You all can assume whatever you want, to me it’s pretty clear and obvious 8 shots came from outside the building.

but, as we’re seeing in this citizens investigation, it’s highly unlikely all 8 shots came from the same rifle.

It’s highly unlikely to you, not me lol

This is where things begin to fall apart, because now we’re dealing with yet another unknown variable.

Variables…you made up…

I haven’t gone deep into the data, others are doing a great job of that, but there is about 100-150 fps difference in velocity between 223 & 556.

Right, but do you have any reason to believe he would use 223 ammunition over 5.56?

WRT other comments on suppressed rifle, I suppose I could borrow a friends 308 and put a suppressor on it, but I don’t believe he has any subsonic ammo, and it would be a crap shoot if it would even cycle properly.

But if you shot it indoors there would be a strong residue of freshly burnt gunpowder, which all the people in the building would have noticed. So you’d have to be somewhere outside imo.

[cohler]

Yes, I know. I calculated it in my previous post using the actual data and for a 77gr OTM round using a ballistic calculator taking into account all the various possible parameters.

[intolerance]

I was just saying it because people here have been using 3000+ FPS for their calculations

[cohler]

Yes those numbers around 3000 fps would be accurate for 55 gr rounds.

That’s why the key questions now are

1. WHAT WERE THE ACTUAL RECOVERED BULLETS?

2. How far was Trump’s head from the microphone?

[intolerance]

@cohler

Yes those numbers around 3000 fps would be accurate for 55 gr rounds.

But difficult for an AR-15 with a 16" barrel to pull off.

Daniel Defense AR-15, using Hornday Match ammo at 75gr was getting around 2500+ FPS…

[phecksel (PhilH)]

@intolerance

But difficult for an AR-15 with a 16" barrel to pull off.

I just ran 223 and 556 across chronograph yesterday with my 16" barrel
556 - average velocity 3035 fps
223 - average velocity 2914 fps
223 commercial reman - average velocity 2905 fps

The rifle on the roof was not a 16" barrel.

[intolerance]

@phecksel

I just ran 223 and 556 across chronograph yesterday with my 16" barrel
556 - average velocity 3035 fps
223 - average velocity 2914 fps
223 commercial reman - average velocity 2905 fps

So just to confirm, all of your 55gr ammo shot out of a 16" barrel went faster than 76gr match ammo?

The rifle on the roof was not a 16" barrel.

Source???

[phecksel (PhilH)]

@intolerance

So just to confirm, all of your 55gr ammo shot out of a 16" barrel went faster than 76gr match ammo?

Heavier ammo generally goes slower than lighter ammo. As you start to get into reloading, twist rate plays a very important part of velocity. A bullet needs to be stable, and if it spins too fast, it can literally come apart. 2500 is about where 77gr would be. Even more so than 556, buying 77gr would be much less apparent on the shelf. 223 55gr is by far the most common wt.

@intolerance

Source???

16" barrel is on the upper, and typically will measure 16" from the front of the lower to the end of the flash hider. The lower with an extended stock, will also measure 16". The rifle on the roof very visibly is longer from the front of the lower when compared to the lower section. While I can’t tell if it’s 18" or 20" (rarer), it is not 16"

[intolerance]

Heavier ammo generally goes slower than lighter ammo. As you start to get into reloading, twist rate plays a very important part of velocity. A bullet needs to be stable, and if it spins too fast, it can literally come apart. 2500 is about where 77gr would be. Even more so than 556, buying 77gr would be much less apparent on the shelf. 223 55gr is by far the most common wt.

76gr ammo performs better at distance, against wind. That’s why it should be preferred. But if he used 55gr then maybe that’s why wind caused such a variation on a moving target.

16" barrel is on the upper, and typically will measure 16" from the front of the lower to the end of the flash hider. The lower with an extended stock, will also measure 16". The rifle on the roof very visibly is longer from the front of the lower when compared to the lower section. While I can’t tell if it’s 18" or 20" (rarer), it is not 16"

Using a quick eye test it looks like a 16" rifle lol

Cop in black uniform probably has SBR since it has a silencer. SWAT guy seems to have a 16" barrel, and when you compare it to the rifle on the ground it doesn’t seem to be smaller to me.

[bigtim]

@cohler

• Average bullet velocity vb = 2644 fps (assuming a 77gr OTM bullet)

I can’t quibble with your average velocities for 77 gr. over 140 yards. It seems close enough as the bullet decelerates. However, 77 gr. ammo is relatively uncommon unless someone searches it out, and one would have wanted to target practice and zero with 77 gr. Could be correct, we don’t know.

My speculation is that it’s more likely the far more common 55 gr. or next the 62 gr. ammunition.

Here’s a decent chart with velocities and brands and weights to aid your calculations.

5.56 Ballistics Charts From All Major Ammo Makers

@phecksel

The rifle on the roof very visibly is longer from the front of the lower when compared to the lower section. While I can’t tell if it’s 18" or 20" (rarer), it is not 16"

I agree, with the grainy photo we have, the rifle attributed to Crooks laying on the roof appears to be 18" or maybe 19-20" but it does not appear to be 16". Stock appears to be fully extended, at about 11" on my AR15s. Barrel looks to be 18" to my eyes. I’ll readily admit that I could be wrong, it’s a hard picture to assess with no context for size comparison. But extra length will increase velocities.

We must also remember it’s the average velocity over 140 (or more) yards. So while a 55gr bullet, for instance, might read 3200 fps at the muzzle, at 140 yrds it might be down to 2700 fps, so we’d want to average these velocities to around 2950 fps or so.

Good quick reference for brands, weights, and velocities:

5.56 Ballistics Charts From All Major Ammo Makers

[phecksel (PhilH)]

@intolerance

Using a quick eye test it looks like a 16" rifle lol

There’s another side view of the rifle that shows the upper being longer than the lower.

@intolerance

76gr ammo performs better at distance, against wind.

I haven’t run the calculator to confirm that assessment, but in theory, that should be correct, but remember, it’s a slower moving bullet. AND, as I said, you have to look for 77gn bullet in a typical gun store. You’ll generally find it on the bottom shelf, and it is more expensive.

[vt1 (VT)]

here is another one.

[intolerance]

There’s another side view of the rifle that shows the upper being longer than the lower.

Yes, it’s supposed to be.

I have two 16" rifles sitting directly next to me, both uppers are longer than the lowers. That’s literally how the rifle is designed lol

I haven’t run the calculator to confirm that assessment, but in theory, that should be correct, but remember, it’s a slower moving bullet. AND, as I said, you have to look for 77gn bullet in a typical gun store. You’ll generally find it on the bottom shelf, and it is more expensive.

So it’s possible, just low likely hood. Alright. Then we have to account for 55gr making the “controlled” shots miss due to wind and him using a shitty AR-15 with a basic red dot.

[intolerance]

Yeah there’s multiple views of it, I don’t see what you people see

[phecksel (PhilH)]

@bigtim

I agree, with the grainy photo we have, the rifle attributed to Crooks laying on the roof appears to be 18" or maybe 19-20" but it does not appear to be 16".

Thank you for the photo. Should be easy enough to measure it. Assume 16" from the back of the stock to the front of the lower, and that will get you close enough on the barrel length.

[bigtim]

Just measured one of mine sitting here, stock fully extended is 11" but to the front of the lower receiver it’s 18.5."

So on the suspect rooftop rifle, on my computer screen, it appears to be a fully extended stock which meastures 3.5" from the tail to the front of the lower receiver. Making it 18.5" in real life. The entire barrel length from the lower receiver front to the tip of the muzzle device is exactly 3.5" making it also, 18.5" barrel with what appears to be a birdcage or similar type device. So we can conclude with relative confidence it’s an 18.5" barrel including birdcage type device.

[intolerance]

@phecksel

Assume 16" from the back of the stock to the front of the lower

What? You think an AR-15 lower receiver is that long? a 6 point fully extended stock on a lower receiver is only like 10"-11" dude lol what the fuck

[phecksel (PhilH)]

@bigtim

birdcage or similar type device.

Sorry for the stupid question but what is a birdcage device?

[bigtim]

Designed to affix to the end of a rifle barrel for various intended purposes based on design. Such intended purposes could be to disperse muzzle flash to aid in concealing position, compensate for muzzle rise by redirecting gases upwards or forwards, direct sound forwards (such as a linear compensator), reduce dust signature beneath the end of the barrel for prone shooting, etc.

[phecksel (PhilH)]

@bigtim

Designed to affix to the end of a rifle barrel f

I’ve literally never heard it called a bird cage. I always called it a flash hider, and my suppressors have a 1/4 turn quick release flash hiders so I can use it with or without.