EVMS Critical Care COVID-19
https://www.evms.edu/media/evms_public/departments/internal_medicine/EVMS_Critical_Care_COVID-19_Protocol.pdf
This seems well thought out - and points out the real medical concerns with HCQ having any actual benefit (the UK NHS, who always loves cheap treatments tested it and it failed - pretty spectacularly…).
I’ve been following a number of potential treatments since early days and (very likely wasted) some money purchasing some of them. When I had COVID myself I took the [then recommended] doses of CQ - and put myself in hospital with side-effects…!
Realise that HCQ has become almost a religious totem to many, but the early research (it was first proposed in China actually, make of that what you will…!) has pretty much all fallen apart after analysis and more detailed trails. (Interestingly the much hyped Remesvir hasn’t had very good results either - reduction in disease length, but not mortality I believe…)
I know an ICU specialist here who’s been treating the sickest of the sick with COVID in our first wave - and he mentioned they’d focussed on what you’d expect - early effective anti-coagulation, anti-inflammatory drugs to fight the cytokine storm , and in extremis a cock-tail mix of drugs as you’d expect, along with of course O2 support. No magic bullet seems about right…
I’m hoping for a safe, effective vaccine (very likely annual according to research so far) for COVID-19, but the realistic view of that has always been late 1H’CY2021…so not in time for our likely dreaded autumn/winter wave…
I’ve caught influenza a few times (including once in China that almost killed me) and I’d take safe immunity any day over risking this disease again…
Just getting over lung, taste and smell damage several months post, and still struggling with ongoing fatigue and pretty awful post viral depression + fog.
There are some recent studies worldwide that back up these concerns also…
“Cerebral Micro-Structural Changes in COVID-19 Patients – An MRI-based 3-month Follow-up Study”
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30228-5/fulltext
For those advocating a full return to ‘normal’ - there is also several concerning studies showing very high post surgical mortality (basically if you catch COVID before even minor surgery you have a high probably of death - its surmised as your body is fighting off the anaesthetic, recovering from surgery and also trying to fight a novel virus…).
Prevention really is better than cure, especially if you are 45 or over…
Nice to have a “new” member story, I am not sure if the recent studies show Hcq benefits have fallen apart, perhaps you could list those studies? You referenced studies (and treatment) around later stages, which are not when Hcq is thought effective. An ICU doc is unlikely to have much use for a drug combo best used for an outpatient. No treatment comes with guarantees, but different countries experience with Hcq is powerful evidence.
https://hcqtrial.com
Hi Chris, I would be interested in your comments about this Peruvian preprint: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.06.20208066v1
Thanks
I took a glance, got excited when I thought they might have dug into the exact data I most wanted to see - all the various drug combos - but then I looked at their flowcharts and tables and realized their figures didn’t even remotely match their described data.
So I come away with the idea that this paper desperately needs to be re-written. If I were a reviewer at a minimum I’d send it back to the authors for these two glaring errors alone.
A: Flow chart numbers always need to add up. Note that they don’t. More people died than were in the first “HCQ alone” bucket. Worse, every bucket had 401 people dying as the final result.
This level of sloppiness speaks volumes. How do you not catch this?
B: In the text they note that HCQ alone had a 1.73 hazard ratio meaning there was a 73% higher chance of dying on it vs std of care./ In their supporting charts they show what are effectively fully matched outcomes on their KM curves. So, which was it? Basically not different or 73% worse?
Finally, the KM curves above, don’t match any of the other tables or written summaries. According to the graphs above, std of care delivered an ~40% survival rate, or a 60% mortality rate. Uh…nobody has been that bad, not even the RECOVERY trial.
I doubt they were that bad in Peru either. I think somebody screwed up the analysis.
I know somebody screwed up the write-up (and the figures).
Samuel
you stated that you had Covid 19 and took hydroxychloroquine and that this drug i. did not help, and ii. was so bad that the drug itself caused you to go to a hospital with side effects. You are disgusted and refer to a quasi religious belief held by uninformed people that this drug has benefit.
You state emphatically that experts in GB definitively found that this drug is useless or dangerous: (“the UK NHS, who always loves cheap treatments tested it and it failed - pretty spectacularly…”)
I can’t find any such study that you refer to. I however suggest that American/GB western medical system is fraudulent and racketeered beyond belief and that if you want to find truth you have to go outside to Asia where traditional values of integrity and science still flourish. I note that your list of “expert studies” did not include Korean, Indian, Chinese, Malaysian, Japanese etc. studies which are more reliable.
This really is the Asian century. I truly am sorry to say this but you live in a second world country. Most new technology and developments occur outside of an increasingly fraud/facsist decaying American/UK empire wherein “science” has pretty much lost most integrity. For example new GMO viruses (generated by research) and analysis of them (proof that covid is a GMO for example) as such all occur in Asia.
The US and UK are second world countries when it comes to medical. Attack me all you want for speaking the truth. Medically speaking Korea/Taiwan/Japan etc. are first world when it comes to covid and have 50-100 times less rate of infection. I am in one of those countries and do not know anyone who has had covid. I dont even know anyone who knows anyone who has had covid (its not because of less testing in those countries). Instead of ignoring the research and medical practices of advanced countries, Americans and British could benefit from learning from them instead of remaining in the thrall of a corporate captured system (which by many definitions is “fascist”). Anyway, your dismissive screed omits medical research and practices from the advanced countries (advanced in the context of successful medical practices and new technology).
I am not impressed by your citation of British medical authority or of American industry controlled medical authority, in the absence of citations from advanced countries that are getting it right.
Mots, you said: “I can’t find any such study that you refer to.”
Samuel’s probably referring to the English study where deathly ill patients were overdosed on HCQ and died.
Samuel, You might find this interesting:
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/researchers-overdosing-covid-19-patients-on-hydroxychloroquine-states-association-of-american-physicians--surgeons-aaps-301078986.html