Chris & Evie LIVE!

Today at 3:00 PM EST we are going live on Youtube. Look forward to seeing you in the livechat! :slight_smile:

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at

Abstract Vs Concrete

It is easier to love humanity than actual people. Humanity is an abstraction, but actual people can be a pain in the rear.
This is why you can take the vax to save humanity and wish the unvaxxed to die.
Love your neighbor as yourself is a high bar.


Joined A Bit Late, But Watching Now.

Good afternoon, all.
Another live-cast was certainly most welcome !
Liberal v. Conservative isn’t a perfect spectrum.
The Libertarian Party used to use a 2-dimensional chart.

Love The Fractal Description Of The Problem Jordan Peterson 12 Rules… (fix Your Own Chaos First!)

Dr. Martenson,
Every now and again, you NAIL the metaphor.
The fractal is a perfect way to explain how you MUST change the world.
Encourage all families to do their part (in their own unique way).
That’s what created ALL of the prosperity we have enjoyed.
But someone sees this tree, and thinks they can FIX IT’S Design/layout,
without killing the tree, the roots, etc.
And it has NEVER worked… Because hacking away at the tree, versus
encouraging it to grow in certain ways… (Like a bonsai tree).
That alone was worth this months Premium!


Thanks Evie And Chris

thank you Evie…just tuned into the end of this…and got to hear Mary Oliver as I came into the house after being out in this glorious day. We live so close to each other and no doubt you are now out in the garden “getting shit done.” So happy to listen and hear your contribution. Love Chris too and a growing appreciation for Evies presence, sensitivity, emotional intelligence and perspective. Would love to come over 1 day and help out, share seeds, gardening, animal keeping. I’m from farming and working with the soil. Very aligned with you and appreciate your growing voice.


In 8th grade civics, the teacher laid out the usual left-right axis: conservative, moderate, liberal - as if those were the only choices. Notice that for students this is framing the entire span of conceivable political opinion to those three categories with some degree of variation between them.
But when you create an axis for a chart, you’re varying some parameter and plotting points on it. What parameter is on this political axis? None as I can tell.
Back then I didn’t see the chart that way. But I did ask a question: where do you plot someone who believes in freedom? The teacher paused, considering my question, and replied “somewhere in the middle.” No further explanation.
Today I see political theory differences as essentially differences in degrees of freedom. Libertarian at one end, authoritarian at the other. For every political issue the positions can be staked out as different degrees of the same root issue of freedom.
Deeper question: why do people adopt their political views?
For most it isn’t a matter of reflection, debate, and analysis. It is a matter of group identity. Red team or blue team? Join my family or oppose them? Join my college classmates or not?
Take a look at Republican and Democratic official platform positions. Look for the root principle from which the positions are derived. You’ll soon realize there isn’t a root principle. Both parties support a hodgepodge of specific positions.
Jordan Peterson has had some interesting points on the psychology behind typical liberals and conservatives and why they generally lean toward certain views. Conservatives are more risk-adverse. Liberals are more open to new experiences. Etc. It’s an interesting take, and there may be more there.
It’s also interesting that historically the liberals are generally the change advocates. That means they come with a plan or vision statement. They are not just accepting the present at face value. So they tend to have a big picture take on things and focus on that. Mao, Stalin, Hitler…

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There is a quote (I forget where I heard it) to the effect that,
“Every generalization will ultimately turn out to be false, except this one.”

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The Fractal Tree, The River Delta, The Brain

These images were amazing.
What I can’t explain is, when some people look at the Tree, they think of De-Forestation.
When I look at the Tree, I remember what Thomas Jefferson said about the Tree of Liberty.
We are (all ?) evidently (left, right, moderate, and so on and so on) blind people feeling their way around the same Elephant.
And we’re (all ?) so certain that we’re “right.”
We may not all even be dealing with the same Elephant, for all we know.
– Chuck


Liberal Vs Conservative

I remember being told by my grandfather when I was first able to vote: “If you’re in your twenties and don’t vote liberal, you haven’t got a heart. If you’re in your fifties and don’t vote conservative, you haven’t got a brain.”


Indeed, it is a very high bar.
But (in my view) a corollary would have to be,

Judge your neighbor as you would judge yourself.
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Factor This Into Your Understanding Of “progressives, Liberals”

The system failed Jordan Neely.
The 30-year old suffered unimaginable setbacks early in life with the brutal murder of his mother. He struggled for over a decade on the streets with schizophrenia, PTSD and depression. Despite his repeated interactions with government employees — with case workers, doctors, law enforcement, and subway workers over the years — the state never stepped in with lasting mental health services.
Rather than a focused discourse on the structures that could have rehabilitated Neely earlier, when he desperately needed intervention, many on the left are prioritizing a polarized racial narrative that is distracting from the core issue of reform. Instead of an overhaul of how New York City treats the severely mentally ill and ensures public safety on the subway, many politicians are stoking public anger with incendiary rhetoric.
The loudest voices politicizing this tragedy are those who attempted to derail vital public services for the severely mentally ill.
New York City Council Member Chi OssĂ© denounced Neely’s death as “the murder of a mentally ill Black man who was killed by a blood thirsty vigilante.” Tiffany Cabán, another member of the council, tweeted approvingly of a thread that mused that one of the men who restrained Neely was motivated by “racialized bias and nationalistic bigotry.”
VOCAL-NY, a left-wing criminal justice reform group, claimed in a statement that Neely had been "lynched," and that the incident showed that a "white man can kill a Black man and be released without charge.” The New York Civil Liberties Union similarly claimed Neely’s death was the result of the stigmatization of “people of color.”
Yet just months ago, the NYCLU, VOCAL-NY, OssĂ© and Cabán were leading the charge against a proposed expansion of government services designed to prevent the type of incident that occurred this week. They protested New York City Mayor Eric Adams’ plans to deploy emergency responders and police to, if necessary, involuntarily commit severely mentally ill people who pose a threat to themselves or to the public. 
Under Adams’ plan, the teams of mental health case workers, health care professionals, EMTs and cops would first try to persuade these individuals to voluntarily admit themselves to medical facilities. As a last resort though, these teams would have the power to coerce mental treatment for people -- on the streets or in the subways -- exhibiting extremely erratic or psychotic behavior. When Adams unveiled the plan last November, he immediately faced legal challenges and protests from left-wing politicians and organizations.

One thing I think it’s fair to conclude is this.
To a Zealot, contradictions simply do not matter.
– Chuck


Is it was either Jean Paul Sartre, or Albert Camus, who said that intellectuals love their ideas more than the people that the ideas are meant to serve


Is It True That There Is No Truth?

You Left Out Howler Monkeys !

Down here, if you go to the Rain Forest Primeval, (such as in fact exist near where I live) you are warned by your Tour Guide please not to stand directly under the Tree.
Then he calls the Monkeys, and they respond as if on cue.
If you do stand under their tree, the monkeys will think they have no choice but throw shit at you. And I must warn you, their aim is not bad.
I certainly see the Howler Monkeys’ point of view, about the same way I see Fauci, AOC, Rochelle Walinski and so on Ad Infinitum. They are right UNDER my Tree.
– Chuck


I have been in Chiapas a couple of times. Howler monkeys are really spooky. They sound like T-Rex.

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Our Tour Guide speaks Howler.
I’ve even picked up a bit of it myself. It’s gutteral but I bet you can do it too.
I like the Howlers, but they’re a bit simple.
As luck would have it, as we converse, I happen to be re-reading
Jurassic Park.
Strikes just a little too close to home.
It’s like, …

What could possibly go wrong ?

Leninism And The Mind Virus

Is the purported “Inability to Think” “Mind Virus” the result of a genuine different way of viewing the world? Or, is it a consequence of an incentive structure of societal Leninist “Mass Terror” (as opposed to the “Individual Terror” of the criminal justice system) in which people rationally conclude that if “Thinking” leads to a rational conclusion that will get him/her “In Deep Shit”, then it’s better for him/her to forego “Thinking” to reach the “Proper Conclusion” regardless of whether such “Proper Conclusion” makes any sense? (“Show me the incentive, and I’ll show you the outcome.”)


Yep, if so, people might be kinder

Classical Liberal

I found the discussion and charts on ideology to be so predictable, as they always are. There are so many variables that produce the finished product on either end of the spectrum that are not considered, especially life experience and auto-didactic natures. Each person accounted for in the graphs was born into a different family, probably voted as parents did. That has to be accounted for. Then they became a professional in one field or another which gave them exposure to lives trodden down, and how to advocate for them, or perhaps they were engineers who had not experience with people. Some developed a new affinity for history and the compelling story of America’s founding, while others pursued other intellectual endeavor. So what the result is is a big picture of American proclivities running the gamut from conservative to liberal, averaged out.